Is the Devil bound right now...?

[DP]

Rev 14:1-4
14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
KJV

That "mount Sion" (Mount Zion) is about Jerusalem on earth, not up in the clouds. And that has yet to occur.

 

[valiant]

Rev 14:1-4
14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
KJV

That "mount Sion" (Mount Zion) is about Jerusalem on earth, not up in the clouds. And that has yet to occur.

The New Testament makes clear that the true Jerusalem was by then heavenly, and the earthly Jerusalem was moribund. 'Jerusalem above is the mother of us all' (see Gal 4.20 ff). This was the Mount Zion on which the people of God took their stand. Hebrews makes quite clear that to Christians Mount Zion was heavenly (Heb 12.22) long with heavenly Jerusalem.

Of course literalists prefer to ignore the New Testament ideas and exalt the Old. They are still caught up in Judaism.

 

[valiant]

Blessed are the meek: for they shall [inherit the earth].
l​

Perfectly true for they ALREADT DO SO. True meekness brings its own reward NOW. Whilst the violent, proud, boastful people tear each other apart the meek continue to inherit the earth NOW.

​

 

[DP]

Mount Sion in the NT is always... referring to a specific location upon the earth, in the area of Jerusalem. The difference with the heavenly city is concerning prophetic time, because the new Jerusalem comes DOWN out of Heaven TO THE EARTH, as written. That is when the promise to believers in Scripture like Rom.11:26, Heb.12:22, 1 Peter 2:6, and Rev.14:1 will be literally fulfilled upon this earth.

 

[valiant]

Since YOU WILL NOT LISTEN to a word we say, or the Scripture we post; perhaps you will listen to JESUS, When He was talking to Pilate about HIS First COMING and WHY He CAME:

John 18:36 (NKJV)
[SUP]36 [/SUP] Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here."
John 18:37 (NKJV)
[SUP]37 [/SUP] Pilate therefore said to Him, "Are You a king then?" Jesus answered, "You say rightly that I am a king. For this cause I was born, and for this cause I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice."

All but the blind would see that Jesus point was that His kingdom, which is being established by the preaching of truth, was not of this world EVEN THOUGH IT WAS VERY FIRMLY IN THE WORLD. Compare how He told His disciples to be in the world but not OF the world. So the kingdom Jesus was speaking about was IN the world but Not OF the world. It is also clear that by this He was indicating that He Himself was reigning IN the world over a kingdom that was not OF the world..

BUT in a Prophecy about HIS SECOND COMING, He inspired the Prophet Zechariah clearly to specify that HIS EARTHLY KINGDOM begins immediately after HIS FEET LITERALLY touch on the Mount of Olives, splitting it into a deep Valley.

Where does it say that it is about His second coming? It describes His establishing His kingdom at His first coming through spiritual; warfare. Then His feet DID literally stand on the mount of olives and the olive trees (witnesses - Zech 4)} were sent forth north and south.

You people miss so much of God's blessing NOW by pushing it all into the future.
Zechariah 14:2-11 (HCSB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem for battle. The city will be captured, the houses looted, and the women raped. Half the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be removed from the city.

This occurred in 70.AD.

[SUP]3 [/SUP] Then the LORD will go out to fight against those nations as He fights on a day of battle.

This initially occurred when the heavenly warrior commenced His 'battle' against the nation in the proclamation of the Gospel.

[SUP]4 [/SUP] On that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which faces Jerusalem on the east.

This occurred when God's own Son stood on the mount of olives preparatory to His death and resurrection challenging the forces of darkness..

The Mount of Olives will be split in half from east to west, forming a huge valley, so that half the mountain will move to the north and half to the south.

This occurred when the 'olive trees (witnesses (Zech 4) on the mount of olives were sent north and south with the Gospel.

[SUP]5 [/SUP] You will flee by My mountain valley, for the valley of the mountains will extend to Azal. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah.

This occurred when as a consequence of spiritual earthquake God's people in Jerusalem were caused to flee taking the Gospel with them.

Then the LORD my God will come and all the holy ones with Him.

The Lord Himself then united Himself and His holy ones behind His people ensuring the going forth of the Gospel.

[SUP]6 [/SUP] On that day there will be no light; the sunlight and moonlight will diminish.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] It will be a day known ⌊only⌋ to Yahweh, without day or night, but there will be light at evening.

This is an example of, if a verse doesn't suit, change its meaning. The purport of this verse was really in order to indicate a time of permanent light. It says,, 'on that day there will be neither cold nor frost, but it will be a time of continuous day, not day nor night, and even at evening time there will be light'.

This is a clear indication of the coming of the light of the Gospel and proves the chapter is not to be taken literally..

[SUP]8 [/SUP] On that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half of it toward the eastern sea and the other half toward the western sea, in summer and winter alike.

[SUP]9

The living waters of the Gospel will flow out in all directions.'

[/SUP]

On that day Yahweh will become King over all the earth—Yahweh alone, and His name alone.

Thus YHWH's sovereignty over the earth will be established.

[SUP]10 [/SUP] All the land from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem will be changed into a plain. But ⌊Jerusalem⌋ will be raised up and will remain on its site from the Benjamin Gate to the place of the First Gate, to the Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Hananel to the royal winepresses.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] People will live there, and never again will there be a curse of complete destruction. So Jerusalem will dwell in security.

Jerusalem will become the heavenly Jerusalem (Gal 4.20 ff; Heb 12.20-22) and His people will be secure.[/quote]

We believe what the Word of GOD says, while YOU believe something else.

We believe what the word of God says as elucidated in the New Testament !!

 

[wolfwint]

No one, but you, mentioned that our earthly reigning with Christ involves Him being on earth...as it most certainly does NOT!

We reign with Him by being FREE of the direct involvement of Satan.

I have shown you verse after verse which plainly states that Satan was BOUND at The Cross.

Satan is still bound to this very day.

Praise God for this!

Don't keep giving Satan more power than he has...

Sorry Bowman, still you gave no scripture proof for your theorie. The expierience which we have in our world with all this crime, temptations, hate against the Lord and his followers shows what the bible teaches. You teach that the millenium is now. But then you must ignore the word of god. Its your thing. But if you ask your threat question. Then you should accept a no as answer. Not because I say this, but the scripture reveals it, what we can expierience in our world.
If Satan would be bound he could not tempt ore mislead any believer. So who is the enemy who still will destroy Israel and shift all Jews away? Who is then the enemy who is against us Christians? It is still Satan at work. But his days are count. Yes, praise our Lord Jesus Christ who has sieges against Satan and death at the cross for you and for me!

 

[Ahwatukee]

Sorry Bowman, still you gave no scripture proof for your theorie. The expierience which we have in our world with all this crime, temptations, hate against the Lord and his followers shows what the bible teaches. You teach that the millenium is now. But then you must ignore the word of god. Its your thing. But if you ask your threat question. Then you should accept a no as answer. Not because I say this, but the scripture reveals it, what we can expierience in our world.
If Satan would be bound he could not tempt ore mislead any believer. So who is the enemy who still will destroy Israel and shift all Jews away? Who is then the enemy who is against us Christians? It is still Satan at work. But his days are count. Yes, praise our Lord Jesus Christ who has sieges against Satan and death at the cross for you and for me!

Hello Wolfwint,

You are correct in what you are believing, for you are in agreement with scripture. We are not currently living in the Millennium and Satan, though disarmed at the cross, is not the same as when Satan is bound in the Abyss for a thousand years. Bowman and others ignore the other words in the context of Rev.20:1-7, which states that an angel will seize Satan and thrown him into the Abyss which is an actual location under the earth and will lock and seal him in. Bowman's version is erroneously applied as passive, meaning that Satan is bound, but is still out and about in the world. Where Rev.20:1-2 shows that he is bound under the earth in the Abyss where he will have no access to the surface of the earth during that time and thereby keeping him from deceiving the nations.

You have to always keep in mind that you are speaking to one who believes in amillennialism. My suggestion to you is to go look it up and see what they believe in and then you will understand why you can't get through to him. For one, they spiritualize the end time events so that they have been completed. And as you already know, they believe that we are currently living in the thousand years, which to them is not a thousand years, but an unknown amount of time, even though it is mentioned as thousand years six times. It's like trying to convince a JW

 

[wolfwint]

Hello Wolfwint,

You are correct in what you are believing, for you are in agreement with scripture. We are not currently living in the Millennium and Satan, though disarmed at the cross, is not the same as when Satan is bound in the Abyss for a thousand years. Bowman and others ignore the other words in the context of Rev.20:1-7, which states that an angel will seize Satan and thrown him into the Abyss which is an actual location under the earth and will lock and seal him in. Bowman's version is erroneously applied as passive, meaning that Satan is bound, but is still out and about in the world. Where Rev.20:1-2 shows that he is bound under the earth in the Abyss where he will have no access to the surface of the earth during that time and thereby keeping him from deceiving the nations.

You have to always keep in mind that you are speaking to one who believes in amillennialism. My suggestion to you is to go look it up and see what they believe in and then you will understand why you can't get through to him. For one, they spiritualize the end time events so that they have been completed. And as you already know, they believe that we are currently living in the thousand years, which to them is not a thousand years, but an unknown amount of time, even though it is mentioned as thousand years six times. It's like trying to convince a JW

Thanks for your explaining. I agree with you. I thougt that he really searched for an answer and not a reason for spread his teaching.
be blessed

 

[Bowman]

Sorry Bowman, still you gave no scripture proof for your theorie. The expierience which we have in our world with all this crime, temptations, hate against the Lord and his followers shows what the bible teaches. You teach that the millenium is now. But then you must ignore the word of god. Its your thing. But if you ask your threat question. Then you should accept a no as answer. Not because I say this, but the scripture reveals it, what we can expierience in our world.
If Satan would be bound he could not tempt ore mislead any believer. So who is the enemy who still will destroy Israel and shift all Jews away? Who is then the enemy who is against us Christians? It is still Satan at work. But his days are count. Yes, praise our Lord Jesus Christ who has sieges against Satan and death at the cross for you and for me!

I have plenty of scriptures for my position....you denying them won't make them suddenly disappear or convert into your worldview.

Further, you continue to willfully give power to Satan by your responses....all the while you totally ignore that his demons are freely roaming the earth today.

Wake up....

 

[valiant]

Mount Sion in the NT is always... referring to a specific location upon the earth, in the area of Jerusalem. The difference with the heavenly city is concerning prophetic time, because the new Jerusalem comes DOWN out of Heaven TO THE EARTH, as written. That is when the promise to believers in Scripture like Rom.11:26, Heb.12:22, 1 Peter 2:6, and Rev.14:1 will be literally fulfilled upon this earth.

You clearly do not read your New Testament. And wisely. Or else you would have to alter your positions and face up to reality.

Your ideas of 'prophetic time' are Simply unscriptural. What says the Scripture.? YOU HAVE COME TO MOUNT ZION, THE CITY OF THE LIVING GOD, THE HEAVENLY JERUSALEM, AND TO INNUMERABLE COMPANIES OF ANGELS IN FESTAL ARRAY.

If THAT Mount Zion is referring to a specific location on earth then I am a Martian time traveller.

We are not talking about the New Jerusalem of Revelation but of the Jerusalem which is ABOVE, the mother of us all ((Gal 4.20 ff) The place where we worship the Father in Spirit and in truth.

Now show me one reference to 'Mount Zion' in the New Testament which demonstrably refers to a specific location on earth (not just in your pedantic mind). There is none, which shows how wild you are in your claims

 

[valiant]

Hello Wolfwint,

You are correct in what you are believing, for you are in agreement with scripture. We are not currently living in the Millennium and Satan, though disarmed at the cross, is not the same as when Satan is bound in the Abyss for a thousand years. Bowman and others ignore the other words in the context of Rev.20:1-7, which states that an angel will seize Satan and thrown him into the Abyss which is an actual location under the earth and will lock and seal him in. Bowman's version is erroneously applied as passive, meaning that Satan is bound, but is still out and about in the world. Where Rev.20:1-2 shows that he is bound under the earth in the Abyss where he will have no access to the surface of the earth during that time and thereby keeping him from deceiving the nations.

You have to always keep in mind that you are speaking to one who believes in amillennialism. My suggestion to you is to go look it up and see what they believe in and then you will understand why you can't get through to him. For one, they spiritualize the end time events so that they have been completed. And as you already know, they believe that we are currently living in the thousand years, which to them is not a thousand years, but an unknown amount of time, even though it is mentioned as thousand years six times. It's like trying to convince a JW

'we pretribbers are all so wonderful, we all say so, so it must be true' So speak the deceived LOL LOL LOL

 

[KennethC]

So says a sola scripturists. Why do you think that within the sola scriptura milieu one has thousands of interpretations all of individual men who all claim it is of the Holy Spirit. Your spirit is very confused and even after 2000 years has yet to arrive at a unified Gospel that is unified as He is with the Father. so says scripture.

Nice rationalization to make it teneable to live and follow such a chaoic, confused, divided spirit.

If this is what you actually believe then you should not speak out against anything, since every man's view is wholly authentically of the Holy Spirit. This includes all the cults who used scripture to develop their own teachings. There should not be a thread about the falsity of any of the Roman Catholic teachings since all of what you call false were derived from scripture, and by the Holy Spirit.

The reality of your view is that whatever man says scripture means that is what it means. Comes right back to the infallibility of man. Opinion becomes gospel Truth for one man and what one man believes has no relevancy to any other man. Sounds more like the doctrine according to Satan to me. Divide and conquer, a house divided cannot stand.

On the other hand, since He has not revealed to all of you the same thing, obviously your view cannot be correct.

This is not what sola scripturists says as I am not one of them, as scripture alone never works without the Holy Spirit's guidance.

There is a few scriptures that says all we have to do is ask God in prayer and He will give us the understanding by the Holy Spirit. Matthew 7:7, 21:22, James 1:6-8, and others for example.

The reason there are multiple interpretations is because people seek out understanding by other routes instead of putting God and His Holy Spirit first.

The Catholic church is the one who says what I say is truth, not me !!!

The Catholic church has a number of teachings that do not align with the Word of God, yet claim others are wrong !!!

 

[Bowman]

Hello Wolfwint,

You are correct in what you are believing, for you are in agreement with scripture. We are not currently living in the Millennium and Satan, though disarmed at the cross, is not the same as when Satan is bound in the Abyss for a thousand years. Bowman and others ignore the other words in the context of Rev.20:1-7, which states that an angel will seize Satan and thrown him into the Abyss which is an actual location under the earth and will lock and seal him in. Bowman's version is erroneously applied as passive, meaning that Satan is bound, but is still out and about in the world. Where Rev.20:1-2 shows that he is bound under the earth in the Abyss where he will have no access to the surface of the earth during that time and thereby keeping him from deceiving the nations.

You have to always keep in mind that you are speaking to one who believes in amillennialism. My suggestion to you is to go look it up and see what they believe in and then you will understand why you can't get through to him. For one, they spiritualize the end time events so that they have been completed. And as you already know, they believe that we are currently living in the thousand years, which to them is not a thousand years, but an unknown amount of time, even though it is mentioned as thousand years six times. It's like trying to convince a JW

You pre-tribs continue to insult God by giving unwarranted power to both Satan and mere angels.

Only God, Himself, has the power to cast out and bind Satan.

Satan was cast out of Heaven by Jesus.

Satan was bound by Jesus.

 

[valiant]

Sorry Bowman, still you gave no scripture proof for your theorie. The expierience which we have in our world with all this crime, temptations, hate against the Lord and his followers shows what the bible teaches. You teach that the millenium is now. But then you must ignore the word of god.

You mean the millennium which ends in total disaster when the reigning king is shown to be bereft of all power, intelligence, wisdom and ability and is so helpless that Heaven has to step in? In our millennium the LORD rules in righteousness, dealing with the things you describe as He goes along. And in the end it is a SUCCESS. His way triumphs without Him being defeated. and God is all in all.

I fail to see how we ignore the word of God, We simply interpret it correctly.

If Satan would be bound he could not tempt ore mislead any believer.

Of course he could because God permits it even though he is bound. His minions are everywhere. And his evil influence is mediated through them. But thank God he is bound. Otherwise we would be defeated before we start. You clearly do not realise the power of Satan.

So who is the enemy who still will destroy Israel and shift all Jews away?

Citation?

Who is then the enemy who is against us Christians?

A very weakened and bound Stan along with his minions until he who restrains (the restraining angel) is taken out of the way.

It is still Satan at work.

But only a very limited Satan who in Rev 9.11 is seen as having ben in the Abyss long before Christ's second coming

But his days are count. Yes, praise our Lord Jesus Christ who has sieges against Satan and death at the cross for you and for me!

True although HE had ALREADY bound him during His life (Matt 12.28-29)

 

[valiant]

This is not what sola scripturists says as I am not one of them, as scripture alone never works without the Holy Spirit's guidance.

There is a few scriptures that says all we have to do is ask God in prayer and He will give us the understanding by the Holy Spirit. Matthew 7:7, 21:22, James 1:6-8, and others for example.

The reason there are multiple interpretations is because people seek out understanding by other routes instead of putting God and His Holy Spirit first.

The Catholic church is the one who says what I say is truth, not me !!!

The Catholic church has a number of teachings that do not align with the Word of God, yet claim others are wrong !!!

Rubbish. There are multiple interpretations because we (unlike Christ) have only been given the Holy Spirit by measure. We are weak, earthly creatures whose minds are sullied and have to be led on a long journey towards truth. That is why none of know more than the outskirts of His ways.

 

[KennethC]

Rubbish. There are multiple interpretations because we (unlike Christ) have only been given the Holy Spirit by measure. We are weak, earthly creatures whose minds are sullied and have to be led on a long journey towards truth. That is why none of know more than the outskirts of His ways.

That is not rubbish and the Word of God even shows that some mature in the faith faster then others, and are revealed different parts of the truth by God when we seek it out through Him.

People are weak and thus will always let selfish ways get in the way of having His knowledge given to them, and doubt is another thing that is clearly stated in scripture that if one asks in doubt then they will not be revealed it do to that lack of faith. Therefore if you continue to doubt He will give you truth, then truth is not what you will be given !!!

I have all faith and trust in the Lord our God that He will do what He says He will do in His word !!!

 

[valiant]

That is not rubbish and the Word of God even shows that some mature in the faith faster then others, and are revealed different parts of the truth by God when we seek it out through Him.

People are weak and thus will always let selfish ways get in the way of having His knowledge given to them, and doubt is another thing that is clearly stated in scripture that if one asks in doubt then they will not be revealed it do to that lack of faith. Therefore if you continue to doubt He will give you truth, then truth is not what you will be given !!!

I have all faith and trust in the Lord our God that He will do what He says He will do in His word !!!

Ye He will, but NOT WHAT YOU SAY HE WILL DO. To claim that you have 'all faith and trust in the Lord' is to stress that you are a charlatan who knows nothing about yourself. And indeed we have heard your spurious claims before. You are a spiritual bighead who needs to beware lest you fall, and fall hard, You live in loud cuckoo land.

I KNOW He will give me truth. But I am wise enough not to make great claims for myself. Whereas I see through your heresies constantly!!!

LOL your arrogance almost makes me think that Satan has already been loosed to deceive ultimately. But fortunately I know better.

 

[wolfwint]

You mean the millennium which ends in total disaster when the reigning king is shown to be bereft of all power, intelligence, wisdom and ability and is so helpless that Heaven has to step in? In our millennium the LORD rules in righteousness, dealing with the things you describe as He goes along. And in the end it is a SUCCESS. His way triumphs without Him being defeated. and God is all in all.

I fail to see how we ignore the word of God, We simply interpret it correctly.




Of course he could because God permits it even though he is bound. His minions are everywhere. And his evil influence is mediated through them. But thank God he is bound. Otherwise we would be defeated before we start. You clearly do not realise the power of Satan.



Citation?



A very weakened and bound Stan along with his minions until he who restrains (the restraining angel) is taken out of the way.



But only a very limited Satan who in Rev 9.11 is seen as having ben in the Abyss long before Christ's second coming



True although HE had ALREADY bound him during His life (Matt 12.28-29)

Dear Bowman and Valliant, still you could not convince me with your stil to interpret the word of God. It s good to know that the future is in the Lords hand and not in ours. Believe your way - I believe what I understand. And then lets see . But if you really believe that Satan is bound then you must be anyhow blind for the reality. This was my last commentar in this thread

 

[Bowman]

Dear Bowman and Valliant, still you could not convince me with your stil to interpret the word of God. It s good to know that the future is in the Lords hand and not in ours. Believe your way - I believe what I understand. And then lets see . But if you really believe that Satan is bound then you must be anyhow blind for the reality. This was my last commentar in this thread

Then go ahead and keep giving credit to Satan instead of God.

 

[Cassian]

This is not what sola scripturists says as I am not one of them, as scripture alone never works without the Holy Spirit's guidance.

You have indicated that you are a sola scripturists. You have stated that the Bible is the ultimate and final authority for faith and practice. The Holy Spirit does not give individuals revelation. He does guide man to Himself which is His Church. He also guides believers in understanding the application of scripture which is what I Tim 3:15 is all about. But Scripture is not the ONLY thing one can use. It also implies that one actually understand what the Bible means before one can apply it. What most Protestants are doing is determining what it means, then making the application upon what they determiined it meant.

The problem with that is that the meaning has existed for 2000 years. You see, the scriptures were derived from the Oral Tradition which included the meaning. The Holy Spriit did not just hand out Bibles to the early Church and left them to determine what it might mean.

There is a few scriptures that says all we have to do is ask God in prayer and He will give us the understanding by the Holy Spirit. Matthew 7:7, 21:22, James 1:6-8, and others for example.[/quote] Understanding has nothing to do with what it means.
The Holy Spirit is NOT repeating the revelation He gave to the Aposltes separately to each individual today. Which is why we end up with the Bible meaning hundreds of different things including the false teaching of dispensational premillennialism.

The reason there are multiple interpretations is because people seek out understanding by other routes instead of putting God and His Holy Spirit first. [/quote] Now that is the first thing that you have stated correctly. Basicly, it is man putting himself as the infallible interpreter of the Bible.

The Catholic church is the one who says what I say is truth, not me !!!

The Catholic Church is no ifferent that you doing what you and all sola scripturists do. The difference is a Pope usually, but sometines with the ascent of the Magisterium making arbitrary dogmas for the Church. Sola scripturist have made it the perogative of each individual to interpret scripture and then declare that their interpretation is what means. Thus right out of the gate you have Martin Luther, and only 15 years later a wholly new and different gospel, both based on scripture and supposedly of the Holy Spirit.

The Catholic church has a number of teachings that do not align with the Word of God, yet claim others are wrong !!![/QUOTE] Any Church does this and denominations are created on this very premise.