Is the Devil bound right now...?

[Bowman]

Re: Clinic time...

As I said before, John knew who Jesus was. In the scripture above, John is bowing down to the angel knowing that he is an angel and because he is in awe of the information that the angel has been showing him and not because he thinks that the angel is Jesus. John tells us himself that he knows that it is an angel when he says, "I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who had been showing them to me." How is that you guy's try to go after the most obscure things to try and prove your positions? You have proved nothing at all. I solidified nothing. As I said and as scripture supports, John is falling down at the feet of the angel knowing that he is an angel and not because he thinks that he is Christ and he says so.

You're backpedaling, again.

By your very own admission, John should have known the difference between a mere angel and God.....and yet, John attempts to worship a mere angel, not once, but twice!

What is wrong with John?

He should know better than this.

This means that John knew that Jesus was a Messenger, otherwise why attempt worship in the first place?

What this tells us is that while John knew that Jesus was a Messenger, he was not always certain if the Messenger was God, or merely an angel of the created order.

You seem to be likewise confused....

 

[Bowman]

Re: More clinic time...

Not everything requires going to other scriptures in order to understand what the scripture is saying.

It most certainly does.

Especially if pivotal terms are used elsewhere in scripture.

Btw...keep ignoring John 3 & John 6...

For example, no one needs to go look through the rest of scripture to find out what a thousand years means, which is what you erroneously do.

Wrong, again.

The very definition of the term in question, for Rev 20, is...'a plural of uncertain derivation'.

Then you need to look elsewhere in Rev and ask the question why the term used in Rev 20 is DIFFERENT than that used elsewhere.

That is because it never was intended to be interpreted literally.

Come on...use your head for once...

Regarding context, you are correct and I will continue to proclaim the necessity of it. You on the other hand obviously don't understand what context means. It is the other words within a particular scripture that support the

passage and clarify its meaning. Context is found within the same verse, not outside in other verses.

Feel free to show us your exegesis on any passage in question........tumbleweeds...

 

[valiant]

Reigning over whom? If you are reigning with Christ right now, who are you reigning over?

The Kingly Rule of God.

Rom 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

Scriptures interprets Scriptures. i understand that you read this verse and what you see is this.

Rom 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness,"shall reign in life" by one, Jesus Christ.)

When the verse says "the gift of righteousness shall reign" Notice the conjunction word AND in the above verse abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign

LOL no wonder you hold your peculiar views when you misinterpret Greek like this. It is THOSE WHO RECEIVE abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness who will reign, that means US. WE reign in life through Christ. Your Greek s poppycock. You must have been in one of your trances when you invented this stuff.,

So then Grace and righteousness shall reign in life by Jesus Christ. This is confirmed by the verse:

You clearly don't understand Greek -- or indeed English LOL

Rom 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

This is a total different conception and the Greek wording is totally different In verse 17 it is 'those who receive' who reign. Here it is grace which reigns, in other words the Christ of grace alongside Whom we reign. Christ in His unmerited favour reigns through righteousness unto eternal life enabling US to reign through righteousness..

You really must learn Greek if you want to pontificate. You can't just twist it around as you like

Romans 5:17 says the same thing. Scriptures interprets Scriptures.

RUBBISH They say totally different things, although in parallel. They certainly interpret each other. WE reign, and Christ in His unmerited favour reigns. That is why WE reign.

my point is the verse does not teach we reign in life by Jesus Christ, as you yourself interpret that verse to mean,

But your point is quite wrong. The Greek is quite clear. Those who have received the abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness reign. In other words WE reign. You are twisting the Scripture.

that verse is saying that Grace AND Righteousnes reigns in life by Jesus Christ, and that is confirmed by other Scriptures.

Try reading it LOL

I am seated with Him in the heavenly places and reigning with Him (Eph 2.5-6).

This is how you see the verses:

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit in heavenly places.

correct, we have been resurrected with Christ and seated with Him in heavenly places (where He reigns). It is quite clear.

What the Word of God actually says

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Because we are ONE with Him, Through HIM we sit in Heavenly places.

What it ACTUALLY says is - has made us alive together with Christ (we have been resurrected with Him - Rom 6.2-11; Eph 2.5-6; Col 3.1)

So you have not been made alive in Christ it is only He Who has been made alive?. I am sorry for you. In that case you are still dead in your sins. Thank God I know that I have been made alive in Christ

NOT that we ourselves sit in Heavenly places,

your own emphasis proves you wrong. If we sit TOGETHER in heavenly places then we are there reigning with Him in heavenly places.

but because we are ONE with Jesus we too also can sit in Heavenly places,

Because we are one with Christ WE do sit together in heavenly places. That is what it says.

because Jesus is in Heaven.

It has nothing to do with being in Heaven. Heavenly places indicate the spiritual realm not Heaven itself. There is spiritual wickedness in heavenly places.

Likewise we can talk to the Father also,
[/QUOTE

you really are ignorant of the Scriptures aren't you? Talking to the Father has nothing to do with heavenly places.

Indeed you have missed the whole point of Paul in Ephesians. He speaks of us knowing 'the exceeding greatness of the mighty power of God when He raised Christ up from the dead --- AND YOU. To make Eph 2.1-6 speak only of Christ would make the whole thing nonsense. It would be tautologous. He wants us to know the mighty power that God has wrought IN US. It is WE who have been made alive, and raised with Him (Col 3.1) and seated together with Him. That is why we reign with Him and can defeat the spiritual hosts of wickedness in heavenly places. If we were not actually in heavenly places how could the spiritual hosts of wickedness there touch us?

Not that the Father actually hears us talking to Him, but through Jesus Christ being ONE with Him, the Father hears our petitions, our prayers.

You mean your Father does not hear you talking to Him.? What a miserable Christian life you lead. When I am in the inner room my Father HEARS in secret and rewards me openly. Your Christianity is clearly second hand, like your supposed prophetic gifts lol.

But not by our own selves, it takes Jesus to talk to the Father.

You may have second hand Christianity. I DON'T. I speak directly to the Father. Of course Jesus and the Holy Spirit support my pleas. But they are made DIRECTLY to the Father (unless of course Jesus was wrong).

Just as we do not sit in Heavenly places by our own selves, we do that only In Christ Jesus,through Him do we sit in the Heavenly places, again not as though we ourselves do that. We do not sit in Heavenly places because we are not in Heaven, but we can sit in Heavenly places via Jesus Christ.

You simply reveal your inability to understand Scripture. The heavenly place where there are spiritual hosts of wickedness is hardly Heaven. You do greatly err not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God. And we are in those heavenly places TOGETHER with Christ. The whole point of the emphasis on together is that WE are there.

It is like unto a Dad who did not make the pros, living through His Son who made the pros. The dad is not a pro, but through His son he can be. i hope that does not make it more confusing adding that in.

It is an absurd analogy.

Are you reigning over known sin?

If you mean day by day sins, the answer is yes. If you mean am I unaware of sin in me the answer is that I am all too aware that I come short of the glory of God, and I know I do not love God as much as I should. If you say it is otherwise with you I will on Scriptural grounds call you a liar.

This i do as well, i too have all authority over sin, i do not commit it, i abhor sinning, Sinning is against my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, therefore i do not do it, i do all things to please my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

you clearly have a weak view of sin. There is only One Who ever loved the Father as He should, and that was Jesus.

Truly are you reigning over known sin too? Praise God in Heaven, if you are. And if you meant something else, then please explain the "HOW" you are reigning over known sin.

Through the power of the Father, the risen Christ, and the Holy Spirit living in me. His abundance of grace and gift of righteousness enable ME to reign in life through Christ.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Re: More clinic time...

It most certainly does.

No, it doesn't! And this is the very core of yours and amil's problem of interpretation. In Rev.20:1-7, the words "a thousand years" does not require the need to go elsewhere to find out what a thousand years means, as it is perfectly clear in the scripture itself. But you dismiss the literal meaning of thousand in the scripture (for who knows why) and you go somewhere else to find out what a thousand means, even though it tells you what it means right in the Revelation scripture.

The very definition of the term in question, for Rev 20, is...'a plural of uncertain derivation'.

You opt for the above and ignore the context which says "a thousand years" six time, confirming that amount of time that Satan is bound and that it is the same amount of time that Jesus rules and the same amount of time that those who overcome rule with him. But instead, you ignore the context and go looking for "'a plural of uncertain derivation'. You looking for things that don't need to be found. The context supports a literal thousand years that Satan is bound, which is the same time Jesus rules.

You also claim that Satan was bound when Christ was crucified, yet, you will not find the words bound, Abyss, Satan or a thousand in Col.2:14-15. You also say that Satan is currently bound, but you ignore the part about that binding being in the Abyss and therefore having no access to the surface of the earth. On top of the scripture demonstrates that Satan is not bound:

"We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was born of God keeps them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them. We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.

Regarding the above, you say that Satan is currently bound, yet Rev.20:3 states that because of his being bound that he will not be able to deceive the nations. Yet 1 John 5:19 above says that presently the whole world is under Satan's control.

That is because it never was intended to be interpreted literally

Who told you that it was never intended to be interpreted literally? The scripture would suggest otherwise. Why would you ignore the obvious and go looking for the obscure?

It is not the thousand years or any other interpretation that is the issue here, but it is your continual departure from scripture that is the issue.

 

[valiant]

Scriptures plainly teach that satan is the god of this world, what kind of god does not run the world he is a god of?

A false god? but 'the god of this world' does not mean that he actually IS the god of this world, it means that that is what the people think him to be.

The world treat him as a god by following his ways. That is why he can deceive them. But he is not really the god of this earth. GOD is the God of this earth.

satan is the god of this world, because this world is evil and wicked, and most of the inhabitants are such also.

So you are saying that without Satan being there everyone would be sweet and kind and good? The world is evil and wicked off its own bat. Indeed that is why it listens to Satan and his minions.

LOL the world cannot be evil and wicked. It is its inhabitants which are evil and wicked. Whilst Satan might lead them astray he can only do so because they are already astray. There is no suggestion that Satan persuaded Cain to murder Abel. He did it out of jealousy. On the one hand you underestimate Satan's power (you do not understand why Christ bound him) . On the other you make too much of it.

Why do you think the wrath of God is coming upon the world?

Because of man's sin, not Satan's. See Rom 1.18 onwards.

You do not know Jesus if you think Jesus is running the world right now, because if He were running the world, the enemy would be put under His feet, and Jesus would rule the kingdoms of the Earth with a rod of iron, with Power.

Who is controlling the seven seals? Who is orchestrating history? Your problem is that you do not seem to understand that what the world is going through is necessary in order to accomplish salvation for His own. He is reigning. He is in control (after all He appoints our leaders). But He is carrying out His own agenda not yours.


LOL your supposed Jesus Who is supposed to rule with a rod of iron will run the world for 1000 years and end up making a total mess of things!!!!

 

[Bowman]

Re: More clinic time...

No, it doesn't! And this is the very core of yours and amil's problem of interpretation. In Rev.20:1-7, the words "a thousand years" does not require the need to go elsewhere to find out what a thousand years means, as it is perfectly clear in the scripture itself. But you dismiss the literal meaning of thousand in the scripture (for who knows why) and you go somewhere else to find out what a thousand means, even though it tells you what it means right in the Revelation scripture.

Any student of scripture knows that you do not interpret scripture in isolation of other scripture.

Scripture sharpens scripture.

Further, verses are artificial in nature and did not even exist in the original languages...rather, it was a continuous stream of characters.

You opt for the above and ignore the context which says "a thousand years" six time, confirming that amount of time that Satan is bound and that it is the same amount of time that Jesus rules and the same amount of time that those who overcome rule with him. But instead, you ignore the context and go looking for "'a plural of uncertain derivation'. You looking for things that don't need to be found. The context supports a literal thousand years that Satan is bound, which is the same time Jesus rules.

You can't down-play the simple lexical definition.

Its fact, and cannot be changed.

You also claim that Satan was bound when Christ was crucified, yet, you will not find the words bound, Abyss, Satan or a thousand in Col.2:14-15.

Scripture makes the claim, not me, and yes, this is the same event which already occurred.

You just have it in your head that it needs to be a future event.

 

[Bowman]

Re: More clinic time...

You also say that Satan is currently bound,

Scripture says this, not me.

If you have an issue with scripture, then show us your exegesis to the contrary.

Good luck on that....

but you ignore the part about that binding being in the Abyss and therefore having no access to the surface of the earth.

We have already shown you that the 'abyss' is a prison for spirits...thus, it has no location beneath the earth.

According your your literalism, then where is that gigantic skeleton key that is to be used...and that chain that is to be used...?

On top of the scripture demonstrates that Satan is not bound:

"We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was born of God keeps them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them. We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.

No denial that Satan is bound.

Regarding the above, you say that Satan is currently bound, yet Rev.20:3 states that because of his being bound that he will not be able to deceive the nations. Yet 1 John 5:19 above says that presently the whole world is under Satan's control.

No mention that the nations are deceived by Satan.

Who told you that it was never intended to be interpreted literally? The scripture would suggest otherwise. Why would you ignore the obvious and go looking for the obscure?

It is not the thousand years or any other interpretation that is the issue here, but it is your continual departure from scripture that is the issue.

I use the original languages to prove my position.

You, on the other hand, run from the same...

 

[valiant]

Re: More clinic time...

No, it doesn't! And this is the very core of yours and amil's problem of interpretation. In Rev.20:1-7, the words "a thousand years" does not require the need to go elsewhere to find out what a thousand years means, as it is perfectly clear in the scripture itself.

If it was perfectly clear it would say 'by a thousand years I mean a literal numerical a thousand years, not what most Jews would see it as, a long unidentified period of time.'

You live in a numerical age. John did not. Most people in his day had no conception of what 'a thousand' represented. They only used numbers to low levels. So most Jews, knowing the Old Testament, would equate it with a thousand in 'a thousand generations', which did not mean a thousand at all.

So it does require that we go elsewhere to discover how Jews used 'a thousand'.

But you dismiss the literal meaning of thousand in the scripture (for who knows why)

Because Scripture itself regularly does so.

and you go somewhere else to find out what a thousand means, even though it tells you what it means right in the Revelation scripture.

Revelation Scripture does not tell us what it means. It simply cites it expecting us to consider its meaning elsewhere in Scripture. And there we learn that 'a thousand' simply mean a large, unidentified number.


[/FONT]

 

[Bowman]

Re: More clinic time...

Not everything requires going to other scriptures in order to understand what the scripture is saying.

The Book of Revelation is a summary of the entire Holy Bible.

You would be very hard pressed to find something that was not already amplified in other books of the Bible.

Again...use your head...

 

[Bowman]

Re: More clinic time...

You also claim that Satan was bound when Christ was crucified, yet, you will not find the words bound, Abyss, Satan or a thousand in Col.2:14-15.

According to your echo-chamber reasoning, then the Gospel accounts of Jesus' Resurrection are NOT referring to the same event, as one Gospel claims that one angel was present, while another claims that two were present...

 

[Bowman]

WE BE BELIEVE WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS; and YOU BELIEVE SOMETHING IT DOES NOT SAY.

Revelation 22:18-19 (NKJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
[SUP]19 [/SUP] and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Revelation 12:9 (NKJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Revelation 20:1 (NKJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

Revelation 20:1 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand.

Revelation 20:1 (ASV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand.

Revelation 20:1 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

Revelation 20:1 (HCSB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven with the key to the abyss and a great chain in his hand.

Revelation 20:1 (NRSV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain.

Revelation 20:1 (ESV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain.

Revelation 20:1 (NIV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain.

Revelation 20:1 (BBE)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key of the great deep and a great chain in his hand.

Revelation 20:1 (GW)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key to the bottomless pit and a large chain in his hand.

Revelation 20:1 (NET)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Then I saw an angel descending from heaven, holding in his hand the key to the abyss and a huge chain.

Revelation 20:1 (AMP)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] THEN I saw an angel descending from heaven; he was holding the key of the Abyss (the bottomless pit) and a great chain was in his hand.

Revelation 20:1 (MontgomeryNT)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, with the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

Revelation 20:1 (Darby)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] And I saw an angel descending from the heaven, having the key of the abyss, and a great chain in his hand.

Revelation 20:1 (ISV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key to the bottomless pit and a large chain in his hand.

Revelation 20:1 (MaceNT)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Afterwards I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit, with a great chain in his hand.

Revelation 20:1 (NJB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Then I saw an angel come down from heaven with the key of the Abyss in his hand and an enormous chain.

Revelation 20:1 (NLT)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven with the key to the bottomless pit and a heavy chain in his hand.

Revelation 20:1 (WesleyNT)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] And I saw an angel descending out of heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit, and a great chain in his hand.

Revelation 20:1 (WEY)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Then I saw an angel coming down from Heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit, and upon his arm he carried a great chain.

WE BE BELIEVE WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS; and YOU ADD AND SUBTRACT WORDS SO THAT YOU CAN BELIEVE SOMETHING IT DOES NOT SAY.

New International Version
and even though my illness was a trial to you, you did not treat me with contempt or scorn. Instead, you welcomed me as if I were an angel of God, as if I were Christ Jesus himself.

New Living Translation
But even though my condition tempted you to reject me, you did not despise me or turn me away. No, you took me in and cared for me as though I were an angel from God or even Christ Jesus himself.

English Standard Version
and though my condition was a trial to you, you did not scorn or despise me, but received me as an angel of God, as Christ Jesus.

Berean Study Bible
And although my illness was a trial to you, you did not despise me or reject me. Instead, you welcomed me as if I were an angel of God, as if I were Christ Jesus himself.

Berean Literal Bible
And of your test in my flesh, you did not despise me nor reject me with contempt, but you received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.

New American Standard Bible
and that which was a trial to you in my bodily condition you did not despise or loathe, but you received me as an angel of God, as Christ Jesus Himself.

King James Bible
And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
You did not despise or reject me though my physical condition was a trial for you. On the contrary, you received me as an angel of God, as Christ Jesus Himself.

International Standard Version
Even though my condition put you to the test, you did not despise or reject me. On the contrary, you welcomed me as if I were an angel of God, or as if I were the Messiah Jesus.

NET Bible
and though my physical condition put you to the test, you did not despise or reject me. Instead, you welcomed me as though I were an angel of God, as though I were Christ Jesus himself!

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And you did not ridicule, neither did you loathe the trial of my flesh, but you received me as an Angel of God and as Yeshua The Messiah.

New American Standard 1977
and that which was a trial to you in my bodily condition you did not despise or loathe, but you received me as an angel of God, as Christ Jesus Himself.

Jubilee Bible 2000
And my affliction which was in my flesh ye did not despise, nor reject but ye received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.

King James 2000 Bible
And my trial which was in my flesh you despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.

American King James Version
And my temptation which was in my flesh you despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.

American Standard Version
and that which was a temptation to you in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but ye received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.

Douay-Rheims Bible
You despised not, nor rejected: but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.

Darby Bible Translation
and my temptation, which [was] in my flesh, ye did not slight nor reject with contempt; but ye received me as an angel of God, as Christ Jesus.

English Revised Version
and that which was a temptation to you in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but ye received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.

Webster's Bible Translation
And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.

Weymouth New Testament
and yet the bodily infirmity which was such a trial to you, you did not regard with contempt or loathing, but you received me as if I had been an angel of God or Christ Jesus Himself!

World English Bible
That which was a temptation to you in my flesh, you didn't despise nor reject; but you received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.

 

[Bowman]

Also, in many other posts you and your amil friends have attempted to claim a passive binding of Satan which supposedly took place at the Lord's crucifixion, of which no binding is mentioned.

Is this clear enough for you....?



2 Thes 2.6 - 7

και νυν το κατεχον οιδατε εις το αποκαλυφθηναι αυτον εν τω αυτου καιρω το γαρ μυστηριον ηδη ενεργειται της ανομιας μονον ο κατεχων αρτι εως εκ μεσου γενηται

kai nyn to katechon iodate eis to apokalyphthēnai auton en tō heautou kairō to gar mystērion ēdē energeitai tēs anomias monon ho katechōn arti heōs ek mesou genētai

And you know that which is binding him for now, to be revealed in his appointed time. For The Hidden, The Lawless is already working, only he is bound at present, taken out of the way, until he comes out of the midst.

 

[Bowman]

What it does say is "And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross". As you and everyone can see, nothing is mentioned about Satan being bound in the Abyss in that scripture, that is unless you wave your magic amil wand. Furthermore, the way in which Christ made a public spectacle of the powers of darkness, was that he met the righteous requirements of the law which gave sin it's power and which was/is ammunition for the powers of darkness, and then he paid the penalty for our sins. He disarmed them by taking away their ammunition which was the law.

More clinic...


Col 2.13 - 15

και υμας νεκρους οντας τοις παραπτωμασιν και τη ακροβυστια της σαρκος υμων συνεζωοποιησεν υμας συν αυτω χαρισαμενος ημιν παντα τα παραπτωματαεξαλειψας το καθ ημων χειρογραφοντοις δογμασιν ο ην υπεναντιον ημιν και αυτο ηρκεν εκ του μεσου προσηλωσας αυτο τω σταυρωαπεκδυσαμενος τας αρχας και τας εξουσιας εδειγματισεν εν παρρησιαθριαμβευσας αυτους εν αυτω

kai hymas nekrous ontas en tois paraptōmasin kai tē akrobystia tēs sarkos hymōn synezōopoiēsen hymas syn auto charisamenos hemin panta ta paraptōmata exaleipsas to kath' hēmōn cheirographon tois dogmasin ho ēn hypenantion heminkai auto ērken ek tou mesou prosēlōsas auto tō staurō apekdysamenos tas archas kai tas exousias edeigmatisen en parrēsia thriambeusas autos en autō

And you, being deadin the transgressionsand the uncircumcision of your flesh,He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven you all the transgressions, having blotted out the handwritten bondin the decrees against us,which was an adversary to us, and He has taken him out of the way, having nailed him to the cross; having disarmed the rulers andthe powers,He made a show of themin public,triumphing over them in Him.

 

[Bowman]

You have also been claiming that Satan has been somewhat stripped of his power, yet he has the same power that he has always had. It is only against those who believe in Christ that he has lost power over and that because believers are no longer under the law, for the law brings wrath for those who are still trying to keep it, as well as for those who do not receive Christ, for they are still under the condemnation of the law.

'Somewhat stripped of his power'...?!



Heb 2.14


επει ουν τα παιδια κεκοινωνηκεν αιματος και σαρκος και αυτος παραπλησιως μετεσχεν των αυτων ινα δια του θανατου καταργηση τον το κρατος εχοντα του θανατου τουτ εστιν τον διαβολον

epei oun ta paidia kekoinōnēken haimatos kai sarkos kai autos paraplēsiōs meteschen tōn autōn hina dia tou thanatou katargēsē ton to kratos echonta tou thanatou tout' estin ton diabolon

Since, then, the children have partaken of flesh and blood, in like manner He Himself also shared the same things, that through death He might render entirely idle the one having the power of death, that is, the devil;

 

[Bowman]

When you tie that in with the direct statements in the Gospels where Jesus states that He needs to bind the strongman and take his spoils, meaning entering Hades and freeing the captives held there BY DEATH.

Where is the scriptural support for this assertion...?

 

[VCO]

Valiant will not give up the false doctrine, no matter how many verses you show that PROVES it is a false doctrine. Very sad indeed. It reminds me of the monkeys who slide their hand into the hole of gourd to grab something shiny, and become stuck, trapped, because the monkey is NOT willing to let go of it, the monkey shall surely die, not understanding, all they had to do was let go, and be free.

Very sad indeed.

^i^ responding to post # 1496

I agree, they cling to teachings of their false prophet, over and above what the Bible actually says:

 

[VCO]

'Somewhat stripped of his power'...?!



Heb 2.14

. . .

Since, then, the children have partaken of flesh and blood, in like manner He Himself also shared the same things, that through death He might render entirely idle the one having the power of death, that is, the devil;

I have NEWS for you, the power of death is only one of many powers that Satan has; and he will come to the PEAK OF HIS POWER IN THE FORM OF ANTICHRIST.

Daniel 8:23-26 (GW)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] “In the last days of those kingdoms, when rebellions are finished, a stern-looking king who understands mysterious things will rise to power.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] He will become very strong, but not by his own strength. He will cause astounding destruction and will be successful in everything he does. He will destroy those who are powerful along with some holy people.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] He will cleverly use his power to deceive others successfully. He will consider himself to be great and destroy many people when they don't expect it. He will oppose the Commander of Commanders, but he will be defeated, though not by any human power.
[SUP]26 [/SUP] The vision about the {2,300} evenings and mornings that was explained to you is true. Seal the vision, because it is about things that will happen in the distant future.”

 

[Ahwatukee]

Hi VCO,

You know how the Amil's try to claim that Satan has no power because he's bound? Well they never gave me an answer to the following scripture that I provided:

"We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was born of God keeps them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them. We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.

But I'm pretty positive that the Amil's will dig up some apologetic or distortion regarding the above, which demonstrates that the whole world is under the control of Satan, just as the scripture says. Let's see what ridiculous response they come up with. For the world certainly cannot be under the control of Satan if he's bound.

 

[Cassian]

Where is the scriptural support for this assertion...?

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Texts dealing with Satan Bound:[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Matt 12:29, Mk 3:22-27, Lk 10:17-19, Luke 12:29, Acts 2:27 , Heb 2:14-17, Ps 16:8-11, Jn 12:30-32 , Eph 4:8-9, Col 2:13-15, Isaiah 49:24, Rev 1:18, Rev 20:3.[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]As well as any text or context that refers to the resurrection of Christ. It is the defeat of death by His resurrection that binds Satan, taking away his power over death. Death is ONLY defeated if Christ arises from death. Simply dying does not end death. Texts such as Heb 2:9; I Tim 1:10; I Cor 15:12-22, 52-54; Acts 24:15, I John 3:8, John 6:39, II Cor 5:18-19, Rom 5:18, No man will ever suffer permanent death through Satan since Christ defeated death.
The binding of Satan has nothing to do with his activity here on earth as so many seem to claim. [/FONT]

 

[Cassian]

Hi VCO,

You know how the Amil's try to claim that Satan has no power because he's bound? Well they never gave me an answer to the following scripture that I provided:

a very broad sweep that is more strawman than truth. Supposedly I am counted as amil but I do not believe the binding of Satan has anything to do with his activity. It ONLY deals with Christ's defeat of death that binds Satan as scripture describes it.

"We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was born of God keeps them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them. We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.

which is irrelevant to the correct understanding of the binding of Satan. It has NOTHING to do with his activity.

But I'm pretty positive that the Amil's will dig up some apologetic or distortion regarding the above, which demonstrates that the whole world is under the control of Satan, just as the scripture says. Let's see what ridiculous response they come up with. For the world certainly cannot be under the control of Satan if he's bound.

He definitely is active and seeking whom he can devour, primarily Christians. However he is still bound because, if you believe Christ came and defeated death, then he was defeated and no man will ever suffer permanent death, dissolution. All men will be raised, judged, and live eternally, either in heaven or hell.

If you sincerely believe that scripture states Satan is NOT bound, then you also must believe that Christ still has not come and defeated death. Satan still has the power of permanent death.

Since the premil believe that Satan is not bound, and they also believe in some future earthly reign of Christ, is that when Christ comes again, this time to defeat death? One wonders what He did the first time.