Is the Devil bound right now...?
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But as Satan and his minions are spirit beings they cannot be 'under the earth'. But we are told that there are spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenlies. NOWHERE does it say that Satan is or will be under the earth.
T Sooooo? It is a spiritual prison for spirit beings. Not an earthly prison.
That is only proof that the particular angel fell from heaven to earth. In other words he was a fallen angel. It says NOTHING about where the Abyss is. The key was given to him after his fall, not in order for him to open the Abyss when he fell.
So there was interconnection between the spirit world and the physical world. But the fact that smoke came from the Abyss for some unexplained reason (probably as a warning signal) does not mean it came out of the earth. The locusts came out from the smoke of the Abyss and down to earth. That proves they were not below the earth.
As usual you read in what you want to see. The angel did not come from heaven to earth in order to open the Abyss. It came because it was fallen. It was AFTER THAT that the key was given to it. It does not say where the Abyss was.
I repeat he did not come down to earth to open it. His fall was for another reason. Then as a fallen angel he got involved with fallen angels
It only demonstrates that the spiritual was revealed to the physical. All that takes place in the heavens is that the sun and sky are darkened. In fact this often happens when real clouds of locusts arrive. Thus it is all part of the presentation of the evil spirits as 'locusts'. It does not say where the smoke came from except that it came from the Abyss'
So how does that prove where the Abyss is? All it shows is where they went AFTER they had left the Abyss. They came from the Abyss in the heavenlies down to earth.
All it shows is that you see what you want to see.
LOL you always come UP from a pit. whether it is on earth or in the heavenlies. that is the point of an Abyss. you come up out of it. You really are scraping the bottom of the barrel lol
=7855]And war occurred in Heonly be, but they did not have strength, nor yet was place found for them in Heaven.Michael and his angels making war against the dragon. And the dragon and his angels made war, but they did not have strength, nor yet was place found for them in Heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, the old serpent being called devil, and, Satan; he deceiving the whole habitable world, was cast out onto the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.And I heard a great voice saying in Heaven, Now has come the salvation and power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of His Christ, because the accuser of our brothers is thrown down, the one accusing them before our God day and night.(Rev 12.7 - 10)
A simple reading of this passage from Rev 12 clearly informs the reader that the war in Heaven occurred between Michael and his angels & Satan and his angels – but, it was Jesus (God) that cast Satan from Heaven.
What is it with you people constantly attempting to diminish Jesus' deity?
Pathetic.
[/QUOTE]
:smoke: misinterpretation my brother
For you possibly mistaken that this written words * but they did not have strength, nor yet was place found for them in Heaven.
Where meant for the archangels and all the angels who remain faithful unto
Our lord god the father almighty and to his only begotten son our lord Jesus christ
:rofl: you turn my whole world upside down
lucky for us we notice it again before its too late
: : please guide our brother bowman from his
misleading way of interpretation in the holy scriptures
God bless us all always
:ty:
A simple reading of this passage from Rev 12 clearly informs the reader that the war in Heaven occurred between Michael and his angels & Satan and his angels – but, it was Jesus (God) that cast Satan from Heaven.
What is it with you people constantly attempting to diminish Jesus' deity?
Pathetic.
[/QUOTE]
:smoke: misinterpretation my brother
For you possibly mistaken that this written words * but they did not have strength, nor yet was place found for them in Heaven.
Where meant for the archangels and all the angels who remain faithful unto
Our lord god the father almighty and to his only begotten son our lord Jesus christ
:rofl: you turn my whole world upside down
lucky for us we notice it again before its too late : : please guide our brother bowman from his
misleading way of interpretation in the holy scriptures
God bless us all always
:ty:
Last edited:
:smoke: misinterpretation my brother
For you possibly mistaken that this written words * but they did not have strength, nor yet was place found for them in Heaven.
Where meant for the archangels and all the angels who remain faithful unto
Our lord god the father almighty and to his only begotten son our lord Jesus christ
:rofl: you turn my whole world upside down
lucky for us we notice it again before its too late
: : please guide our brother bowman from his
misleading way of interpretation in the holy scriptures
God bless us all always
:ty:
For you possibly mistaken that this written words * but they did not have strength, nor yet was place found for them in Heaven.
Where meant for the archangels and all the angels who remain faithful unto
Our lord god the father almighty and to his only begotten son our lord Jesus christ
:rofl: you turn my whole world upside down
lucky for us we notice it again before its too late : : please guide our brother bowman from his
misleading way of interpretation in the holy scriptures
God bless us all always
:ty:
You are talking out of your glutes, again...
:rofl: as long as there are no own self interpretation
please
:read:
2 Timothy 2:26
and that they may come to their senses and escapethe snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.
NKJV VERSION
:brb: so very busy today ill tell to all my brethrens
to talked with you my brother bowman
:ty:
God bless us all always
please
:read:
2 Timothy 2:26
and that they may come to their senses and escapethe snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.
NKJV VERSION
:brb: so very busy today ill tell to all my brethrens
to talked with you my brother bowman
:ty:
God bless us all always
Last edited:
Cassian, then you should read f.e. John 3,16. Does it meant you and me? I see this very personell for me!
Jesus died for my sins and through faith i can have eternal life.
You say the believe in Sola scriptura is naiv and ignorant. Then I am naiv! ignorant to what/Whom? to God?
What was before this reformation time?
The autorative church (RCC) teaches: The Popes word is equal like what the bible says. Praying to Mary and to "saints" are equal to pray to the son of God Jesus Christ. Pay money to the Church and you will get free from your sins.
The church ruled in a very bad way about the poor. This was the situation before God called different people in different countrys for reformation. Their goal was not to establish a new church. Their goal was to go back to the word of God and to fight against some wrong teachings of the church!
Sola scriptura, sola fide, sola gratia, solus Christus and soli deo gloria;
What is wrong with these statements?
These are the base of my believe in short words!
You are rigth we are living in a time where everybody creates his own doctrine. It is important to see that a outline of the word of god is depent of some rules if we dont want a doctrine which deserves our own view and desires. Of course it is important that the holy spirit open us our eyes. But also it is important to consider f.e. a) which text style do we have. A letter of Paul is different to handle in the teachings then a psalm. b) Who wrote to whom and in which situation? Is that for the believers in the time of the writer ore is this meant for all believers in all time. c) Is the text literal, as picture language,spirituell ore as allegory to understand. d) How the adressat of the f.e. letter understood the letter? e) What is saying the context? f) what ohter parts of the bible say to this theme?
Some themes of the bibel are clear to us and some are more difficult to understand. And special with the future the sight is not so clear to us.
And how we are considering these points,we can come to an understanding of the truth meaning of the scripture ore to our own view.
If we pick simply verses out of the context we can create our own doctrine as f.e. the Jehova Witniss are doing it.
In the case of this threat the problem is that we have different tools. Alone the word bound is so different in our understandings that we can not come to unit solution.
The only scripture which describes to be bound Satan we see in Rev. 20,1-3: To bound means there: that Satan is not able to deceive the nations. This means he can deceive nobody! for 1000 years. This including his servants, the demons. This 1000 years will be without any evil influence from Satan!
That Satan is bound in this way we cant see today! Peter describes it in a very understandable way (1.Peter 5,8)
But he is limitid in his power. And it is god allmighty who allows him to do what he is doing!
If you see this different you may do! But it will come as the Lord wants and not how we will want.
So I hope we do not mislead people with our way to lay out his word!
Jesus died for my sins and through faith i can have eternal life.
You say the believe in Sola scriptura is naiv and ignorant. Then I am naiv! ignorant to what/Whom? to God?
What was before this reformation time?
The autorative church (RCC) teaches: The Popes word is equal like what the bible says. Praying to Mary and to "saints" are equal to pray to the son of God Jesus Christ. Pay money to the Church and you will get free from your sins.
The church ruled in a very bad way about the poor. This was the situation before God called different people in different countrys for reformation. Their goal was not to establish a new church. Their goal was to go back to the word of God and to fight against some wrong teachings of the church!
Sola scriptura, sola fide, sola gratia, solus Christus and soli deo gloria;
What is wrong with these statements?
These are the base of my believe in short words!
You are rigth we are living in a time where everybody creates his own doctrine. It is important to see that a outline of the word of god is depent of some rules if we dont want a doctrine which deserves our own view and desires. Of course it is important that the holy spirit open us our eyes. But also it is important to consider f.e. a) which text style do we have. A letter of Paul is different to handle in the teachings then a psalm. b) Who wrote to whom and in which situation? Is that for the believers in the time of the writer ore is this meant for all believers in all time. c) Is the text literal, as picture language,spirituell ore as allegory to understand. d) How the adressat of the f.e. letter understood the letter? e) What is saying the context? f) what ohter parts of the bible say to this theme?
Some themes of the bibel are clear to us and some are more difficult to understand. And special with the future the sight is not so clear to us.
And how we are considering these points,we can come to an understanding of the truth meaning of the scripture ore to our own view.
If we pick simply verses out of the context we can create our own doctrine as f.e. the Jehova Witniss are doing it.
In the case of this threat the problem is that we have different tools. Alone the word bound is so different in our understandings that we can not come to unit solution.
The only scripture which describes to be bound Satan we see in Rev. 20,1-3: To bound means there: that Satan is not able to deceive the nations. This means he can deceive nobody! for 1000 years. This including his servants, the demons. This 1000 years will be without any evil influence from Satan!
That Satan is bound in this way we cant see today! Peter describes it in a very understandable way (1.Peter 5,8)
But he is limitid in his power. And it is god allmighty who allows him to do what he is doing!
If you see this different you may do! But it will come as the Lord wants and not how we will want.
So I hope we do not mislead people with our way to lay out his word!
You should do a restudy of history. You are arguing against the RCC.They were not even the Church at the time of the Reformation. They had, in retrospect separated from the One True Church in the 11th century. They had already made a lot of changes prior t that schism.
On the topic, that Satan is bound is not first and foremost supported by Revelation 20:3. That whole chapter is a summary of the rest of scripture that describes the period between the Advents. Satan being bound has been stated several times in this thread. It has nothing to do with the false idea of premillennialism nor does it pertain to his activities. it has to do with His power. The OP started out well, Heb 2:14 but the presenter does not understand the meaning of his own OP. That meaning has existed for quite a few centuries, millennialisms,
And it has nothing to do with the RCC.
On the topic, that Satan is bound is not first and foremost supported by Revelation 20:3. That whole chapter is a summary of the rest of scripture that describes the period between the Advents. Satan being bound has been stated several times in this thread. It has nothing to do with the false idea of premillennialism nor does it pertain to his activities. it has to do with His power. The OP started out well, Heb 2:14 but the presenter does not understand the meaning of his own OP. That meaning has existed for quite a few centuries, millennialisms,
And it has nothing to do with the RCC.
Cassian, you said to believe in sola scriptura is naiv and ignorant. And I gave you only an reply why it came to this statements. The reason for reformation layed in the wrong teaching and practice of RCC doctrine.
Also i showed why we cant come to one mind!
Your arguments and the way you lay out the scripture leads me not to say: Yes your are right!
I still cant see from the scripture that Satan is bound as you claimed!
Also i showed why we cant come to one mind!
Your arguments and the way you lay out the scripture leads me not to say: Yes your are right!
I still cant see from the scripture that Satan is bound as you claimed!
Sola scriptura is the Protestant answer to the RCC's concept of Progressive Revelation. This is how they developed all the new ideas that did not exist prior to their schism. The only real difference between the RCC who is governed by the Pope and secondarily the Magisterium, though He can override the Magisterium is that under sola scriptura each person becomes his own Pope and can determine his own interpretation of scripture just like the Catholic Church. The only other difference is that the RCC has developed different things from scripture than the hundreds of Protestants who have developed a myriad of theories all based on scripture.
Maybe you cannot see the binding of Satan because you have misunderstood the Gospels where it tells us inequivocally that Jesus bound Satan. It may be that you do not believe Christ came to defeat death, the power of Satan which is clearly stated in the text of the OP, Heb 2:14. That Christ decended into Hades and took captive those that were being held there by his power of death. Maybe you don't believe Christ arose from the dead and gave life to the world and all of mankind. I Cor 15:12-22, Rom 5:18, II Tim 1:10, Heb 2:9. It is actually the resurrection of Christ that bound Satan because it stripped him of his power over death. All of this has already been explained with specific texts elsewhere in this thread.
Maybe you cannot see the binding of Satan because you have misunderstood the Gospels where it tells us inequivocally that Jesus bound Satan. It may be that you do not believe Christ came to defeat death, the power of Satan which is clearly stated in the text of the OP, Heb 2:14. That Christ decended into Hades and took captive those that were being held there by his power of death. Maybe you don't believe Christ arose from the dead and gave life to the world and all of mankind. I Cor 15:12-22, Rom 5:18, II Tim 1:10, Heb 2:9. It is actually the resurrection of Christ that bound Satan because it stripped him of his power over death. All of this has already been explained with specific texts elsewhere in this thread.
I'm not trying to argue with anyone but I'm only trying to help people see thatthe rcc are all under the bondage of the law. This post is not to offend catholics because before I knew better I attended the catholic church a few times but to urge them to flee from the false doctrine that trys to add to scripture.
Again...
The 'Devil's snare' is what has already occurred to Satan at The Cross...i.e. he was judged at that point, according to scripture.
If you look at the five Greek locations of this word (and its inflections), you can easily see that this has everything to do will falling into the trap of being Judged, of which, Satan has already been.
This passage is a predicament of Judgment....NOT a declaration of Satan's authority.
Anyone who teaches something that is contrary to even one verse in Scriptures is a false teacher.
I always knew you were a false teacher and a false prophet You condemn yourself.
You condemn yourself.
DiscipleDave said i say that because Scriptures does not teach that he is right now. But let us read the Scriptures which YOU, Valiant, interprets to mean that satan is bound right now.
Jesus taught the Truth, it is men who misinterpret the TRUTH that Jesus teaches.
NONE of these verses teach that satan is bound right now, it is only YOUR interpretation of what is being said that teaches that false doctrine. How will you escape the wrath of God? You teach things that are according to man, and not from God. I teach things that God has told me, and you refuse His Word, because the TRUTH is not in you, you believe false doctrines, you interpret the Word of God yourself, and you are now currently living in wickedness, but somehow you get on these boards thinking that somehow you are making up for the wickedness that you do. How can someone Know and understand the TRUTH while they continue to walk in darkness? Those who walk in the light will be granted understanding of the TRUTH. Those who continue to walk in darkness will continue to THINK they know the TRUTH.
DiscipleDave said Do you have ears but can't hear? i have plainly told you, and do not lie, because it is written in Rev 21:8 that all liars shall burn in the lake of fire and brimstone, i have told you the TRUTH, that what i teach is what God told me, But you refuse to hear that TRUTH and continue to think that what am teaching comes from me, and NOT from God, which i have plainly told you does come from God. i have no position, i have not told you what i DiscipleDave thinks, i have told you what God has told me to teach which this generation will absolutely refuse, Cursed children unable to cease from sin, but still think they know the TRUTH. You do not hear what i teach, because you do not believe God who told me these things. You think i am trying to establish my position, i have not even revealed my position at all, on this matter. i will now though, i believe what God told me. NOW i have established my position on that matter. But what i have been teaching is from God, not from me.
This is what YOU teach based on your own interpretations of the Scriptures. But the TRUTH is, there is no Scriptures which teach that satan was bound from the beginning of the ministry of Jesus, and has not yet been released. This is what YOU teach, not what the Word of God teaches, but YOU. Is it not written that satan is bound for only a thousand years and then released? But according to YOU, satan was bound 2,000 years ago, and is even now still bound, this Scriptures does NOT teach. You should realize that you can't possibly be right because what you believe contradicts the Word of God. The Word says satan will be bound for a thousand years, but you say satan is bound from the time of Jesus till now, which is two thousand years later. Should i believe Valiant or should i believe the Word of God? You do error, and even which SCRIPTURES proves you wrong, you refuse to change your belief, How will you escape the wrath of God? Choosing to believe your own interpretation over what the Word of God actually teaches. Repent, and believe the Word of God, change your belief to match Scriptures, but howbeit you will interpret Scriptures and change them to match your own belief? Scriptures teach that satan will be in the future, bound for a thousand years. This is TRUE, and is what Scriptures teach. YOU teach satan will be bound for over 2,000 years, which Scriptures does NOT teach.
lol, and you have made my point perfectly. YOU have to interpret the 'thousand years' to mean an (undetermined long period of time) in order to KEEP your own belief. lol lol lol. Since when does a thousand years mean an undetermined long period of time, Scriptures does not teach or reveal that, but Lo and behold satan does teach that too. What if a thousand years means exactly that, a thousand years, oh my, that would mean what you believe is in error, and since you are always right and can't never be in error, that can't possibly be True, is that right?
Scriptures interprets Scriptures. So show me through Scriptures how you have come up with the ideal that a thousand years is an undetermined long amount of time, this should be very interesting. Now Scriptures reveals that a thousand humans years is but one day to God, this is TRUE comparing human time with Heaven time. The whole existence of Humans will only have been for a week according to Heaven time. We also know that a week can mean 7 years, because Scriptures plainly teaches that it means that. But where is it written that a thousand years means an undetermined long amount of time, where? i know where, that teaching comes from the mind of men with their own interpretations, that teaching comes from men, and not from God.
DiscipleDave said Is that what you think? Seriously? that i am wanting recognition or something, that i want people to bow down to me, that i want people to put me on a pedestal? You don't know me at all. i teach the TRUTH which comes from God, because you don't believe what God has told me, you attack me personally. You say all manner of evil things against me, DiscipleDave. i have done nothing more than present what God has told me. i am merely a messenger boy. i teach what God has told me, i do that which i am called to do. But you attack the messenger because you do not believe the message in which he brings, therefore you say evil things about him who has brought the message. How is that any different than those husbandmen who did the same thing to the messengers that were sent unto them? i have not voiced my opinion, i have not even told you what i believe to be the TRUTH, which i believe i did in this post only, saying that i do believe what God told me. If i teach something that is contrary to Scriptures then reveal the Scriptures, then and only then is it proved that i am a false teacher. But just because i teach things that are contrary to YOU, does not make a person false, now does it? Show Scriptures that is contrary to what i teach, then it will be established that i am a false teacher.
What you believe is NOT established on Scriptures, even though you have altogether convinced yourself you have. You teach satan is bound for more than a thousand years where is the Scripture that you have established that knowledge from? Where? That knowledge is contrary to Scriptures which plainly teaches that satan will be bound for a thousand years, it even says in another verse that after the thousand years he shall be released. But you change the Scriptures, YOU interpret the Scriptures to mean something other than what it plainly says, YOU teach it is NOT an actual thousand years, YOU teach that it is an undetermined long amount of time, That comes from you, and not established by Scriptures which you testify what you teach comes from Scriptures, you might have convinced yourself that is what you have done, but it is NOT.
You say that i falsify Scriptures, why? Because i believe if the Bible says satan will be bound for a thousand years, and after the thousand years are finished that satan will be released, if i believe what it plainly says and teaches, that i am falsifying Scriptures, HOW? i believe what they say, YOU do not believe what they say, if you did, then you would believe it is a thousand years EXACTLY like it says, But what do you do, you change the thousand years to mean an undetermined long amount of time, How have you not falsified Scriptures, you change the Word of God to fit YOUR OWN BELIEF, you have changed Scriptures and then turn around and accuse me of falsifying Scriptures because i merely believe them and what they plainly say. Having eyes but can't see. Ears but can't hear the TRUTH.
^i^
And it is not surprising that you would call the TRUTH an insult. i do not believe he was trying to insult you, but what he said is the TRUTH, which part of what he said do you think was an insult to YOU?
He said
i believe this is TRUE, because i have seen this done to him by you, and i myself have felt this from you as well.
He said
This is also very true statement which you prove is accurate, because you ARE convinced otherwise. Instead of accepting the TRUTH, that maybe you are a little bit arrogant, show rudeness sometimes, and have Pride, You have indeed convinced yourself otherwise saying it is an insult. Which confirms the TRUTH which he said.
^i^
i have not accused everyone of false teaching, But only those who teach things that are contrary to Scriptures. Anyone who teaches anything contrary to Scriptures is a false teacher.
Again, as i have asked you in several posts, if you think i am a false teacher, then show any Scriptures which is contrary to what i teach, than you will not have sinned in falsely accusing a brother in the Lord. You have accused me many times of being a false teacher, or a false prophet, and the such, So if you are going to accuse those evil things, then should you not back it up with Scriptures. Show the Scriptures which proves that what i teach is false, so you will not have sinned by accusing a brother in the Lord falsely. Or will you continue to accuse, without any cause for it. If i teach something contrary to Scriptures, then i am false, show therefore the Scriptures which i teach that is contrary. Or is sin at the door?
P.S. i still Love you, and forgive you for all your false accusations against me, whether you answer the question or not.
^i^
Satan was bound from the beginning of the ministry of Jesus, and he has never been released.
.
^i^
Then Satan entered Judas, called Iscariot, one of the Twelve. [SUP]4 [/SUP]And Judas went to the chief priests and the officers of the temple guard and discussed with them how he might betray Jesus.
Luke22:3
^i^