Is the earth really 6000 years old?

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presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,160
1,787
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#61
If we live in a holographic universe (as I think we do), how do you measure time and distance in a hologram? Is everything just an illusion? The bible seems to say we are not living in the real world. What do you think?
Where does the Bible teach we aren't living in a real world?
 
Aug 27, 2023
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#63
We were told it was the beginning. Everything else happened since then. Our post-Einstein concepts of time were not available to the ancient Israelites, so God chose concepts that were available: beginning, day one, the second day, evening, morning, so many years, etc.
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
After Genesis 1, but before Genesis 2, these events happened.

23) beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they hadno light.

24I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.

25I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.

26I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.

27For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.

28For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.

29The whole city shall flee for the noise of the horsemen and bowmen; they shall go into thickets, and climb up upon the rocks: every city shall be forsaken, and not a man dwell therein.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,401
13,746
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#64
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
After Genesis 1, but before Genesis 2, these events happened.

23) beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they hadno light.

24I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.

25I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.

26I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.

27For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.

28For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.

29The whole city shall flee for the noise of the horsemen and bowmen; they shall go into thickets, and climb up upon the rocks: every city shall be forsaken, and not a man dwell therein.
Respectfully, I disagree.
 
Aug 27, 2023
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#65
Respectfully, I disagree.
That’s ok… You may have many good reasons for your disagreement….
For me it seems something happen to make the earth void, I don’t believe it was created that way.
Isa 45:18-19
18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain*1, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else. (KJV)​
*1). vain = There is something remarkable here that is lost to the English reader of the Bible. In the Hebrew Manuscripts that the above verse was translated out of, the word translated into the English as vain is translated from the identical Hebrew word that we saw in Gen 1:1 (tohuw - #2 above), it's the same Hebrew word.​
So that should explain what it is really saying when we read in Gen 1:2: "And the earth was without form [tohuw], and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep."
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,401
13,746
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#66
That’s ok… You may have many good reasons for your disagreement….
For me it seems something happen to make the earth void, I don’t believe it was created that way.
Isa 45:18-19​
18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain*1, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else. (KJV)​
*1). vain = There is something remarkable here that is lost to the English reader of the Bible. In the Hebrew Manuscripts that the above verse was translated out of, the word translated into the English as vain is translated from the identical Hebrew word that we saw in Gen 1:1 (tohuw - #2 above), it's the same Hebrew word.​


So that should explain what it is really saying when we read in Gen 1:2: "And the earth was without form [tohuw], and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep."
This is where other translations may be helpful. In the NIV, the word in Isaiah 45:18 is rendered "empty", which aligns perfectly with the six-day creation view of Genesis 1. He didn't create the Earth to be empty, but it was briefly empty and without form prior to His further action.
 
Aug 27, 2023
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#67
This is where other translations may be helpful. In the NIV, the word in Isaiah 45:18 is rendered "empty", which aligns perfectly with the six-day creation view of Genesis 1. He didn't create the Earth to be empty, but it was briefly empty and without form prior to His further action.
Fair enough… So it would seem that you have a chronological order of events that take place on the earth…

So when do you believe these events took place?

23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord, and by his fierce anger.
27 For thus hath the Lord said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.
28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black; because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.

I pretty much stick with the KJV for a few reasons… and as far as the NIV goes, the holder of the Copyright of the New International Version Bible also holds the copyright for Hustler magazine - pornography. Rupert Murdock, called "Media's prince of Darkness" by Chicago columnist Mike Royco, owns the copyright & exclusive printing rights on the most sold newer Bible version in the world, the NIV (through Zondervan Publishing House, Grand Rapids Michigan, which he owns). Murdoch also owns the copyright on another Bible version, the Amplified Version.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,401
13,746
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#68
Fair enough… So it would seem that you have a chronological order of events that take place on the earth…

So when do you believe these events took place?

23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord, and by his fierce anger.
27 For thus hath the Lord said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.
28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black; because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.

I pretty much stick with the KJV for a few reasons… and as far as the NIV goes, the holder of the Copyright of the New International Version Bible also holds the copyright for Hustler magazine - pornography. Rupert Murdock, called "Media's prince of Darkness" by Chicago columnist Mike Royco, owns the copyright & exclusive printing rights on the most sold newer Bible version in the world, the NIV (through Zondervan Publishing House, Grand Rapids Michigan, which he owns). Murdoch also owns the copyright on another Bible version, the Amplified Version.
I believe those words are a description of a prophetic vision, not of real historical events.

As for the copyright holders, while they may be evil persons, they are not responsible for the translation itself as they had no part in its development.
 
Aug 27, 2023
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#69
I believe those words are a description of a prophetic vision, not of real historical events.

As for the copyright holders, while they may be evil persons, they are not responsible for the translation itself as they had no part in its development.
That’s not the only reason, I’m not into the NIV…
The KJV was translated from the Textus Receptus, All other Bible versions come by way of different manuscripts than that of the King James Bible. These 'other' manuscripts all trace their roots back to Alexandria Egypt in the 2nd - 4th century A.D
 
Aug 27, 2023
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#70
I believe those words are a description of a prophetic vision, not of real historical events.

As for the copyright holders, while they may be evil persons, they are not responsible for the translation itself as they had no part in its development.
A prophetic vision? But nothing indicates that. God said he won’t repent for doing this.
That’s sounds pretty real to me.

For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black; because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,401
13,746
113
#71
That’s not the only reason, I’m not into the NIV…
The KJV was translated from the Textus Receptus, All other Bible versions come by way of different manuscripts than that of the King James Bible. These 'other' manuscripts all trace their roots back to Alexandria Egypt in the 2nd - 4th century A.D
We can discuss the whole KJV-only thing in another thread sometime. Not here, and not today.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,401
13,746
113
#72
A prophetic vision? But nothing indicates that. God said he won’t repent for doing this.
That’s sounds pretty real to me.

For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black; because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.
It's a prophetic word from the Lord; the entire chapter. It sounds real because Jeremiah was adept at detailed description.
 
Aug 27, 2023
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#73
It's a prophetic word from the Lord; the entire chapter. It sounds real because Jeremiah was adept at detailed description.
So what’s the prophetic word? Are those events going to happen? How do we know when it’s a prophetic word or it’s already happened, or it’s not going to happen?
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,790
1,069
113
Oregon
cfbac.org
#74
.
Ex 2:1-3 . . And there went a man of the house of Levi, and took to wife a
daughter of Levi. And the woman conceived, and bare a son: and when she
saw him that he was a goodly child, she hid him three months. And when
she could not longer hide him, she took for him an ark of bulrushes, and
daubed it with slime and with pitch, and put the child therein; and she laid it
in the flags by the river's brink.

The Hebrew word translated "slime" pertains to bitumen, and the word for
"pitch" pertains to asphalt; which is very handy for pavements and as a
waterproof cement.

Natural bitumen and asphalt are believed produced from very ancient forms
of organic matter which I think we have to concede pre-existed Levi's
daughter by a good many thousands of years.
_
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
18,974
6,526
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62
#75
All old earth scenarios presume things were created in ageless form. Adam was created with age. An argument could be made that light itself was created with age.
 

stilllearning

Well-known member
Oct 4, 2021
576
293
63
#76
If we live in a holographic universe (as I think we do), how do you measure time and distance in a hologram? Is everything just an illusion? The bible seems to say we are not living in the real world. What do you think?
From some astro physicist I have read they have put forth this notion. What they conclude when they do the math is that we are a digital simulation. Which I find they are correct not in the words they use but they have concluded there is something bigger out there that effects our universe.

That of course is God and the spiritual realm as it would dwarf our universe as God himself says he holds it in the span of his hand. They however, will not be able to correlate the math to the truth because they deny that God exist. So they are correct there is something bigger so it makes us seem as a simulation and not the bigger reality.

However, again our Lord has already worked all that out and as Christ is the answer for everything in creation, one day this world of ours separated by a thin veil and the world of the spiritual will be accessible when Christ returns and God creates anew as well.

I find I am on the side of the young earth. As we can count the years in our bible and arrive at 6000 years or a young earth. I can't hold to the gap theory or other theories it is older. Reason being is that in each of their models death is the reason for creation. By this I am speaking of the fossil record or death of organic material.

They place death before the creation of Adam and the bible says that death entered by him. So if we have death before Adam was created then we serve no true God and to paraphrase Paul if our God be not true then we should eat, drink, and be merry for tomorrow we die.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,670
6,860
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#77
Lately, I feel like I am AT LEAST 3,000 years old, sigh.........
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
5,004
1,264
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#78
From some astro physicist I have read they have put forth this notion. What they conclude when they do the math is that we are a digital simulation. Which I find they are correct not in the words they use but they have concluded there is something bigger out there that effects our universe.

I've heard it's related to the double slit experiment.
 

Omegatime

Well-known member
Apr 29, 2023
1,150
431
83
Pennsylvania
#79
The 6000 years has not yet been fulfilled or we would be in the millennial reign. This point of view is usually referred to as the 6000 year lease. This "earth lease" is the time man would be allowed to have dominion on the earth to protect it and to keep it. Genesis 1:26 Be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth and subdue it and have dominion. In Gen1: 31 we read " and God saw everything that He had made and behold was very good.And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. This authority was given to the human race for a limited period of time. Adding to the above the concept that to the Lord one day is as a thousand years and a thousand years as a day (2 Pet 3:8) the pattern would seem to imply that man has been given six one thousand year days of dominion on the earth after which God will take back control of the planet. Notice this does not necessarily imply that the earth is approximately this same age. Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. :2 And the earth was without form and void. There could be countless years between vs 1 and 2 during which the earth could have been taken from a place of beauty and perfection to, well, formless and void. In Gen 1:26 The Lord tells man to re-plenish the earth as though it had been filled at one time. This timeline would put Jesus coming on the 4th day or at about 4000 years. It is now 2023 making it approximately 6023. His return is imminent.
I would agree that Yeshua's coming was on the end of the 4000th year as he was the sun of righteousness ( sun made on the 4th day). But in this age our calendar should have begun at his death, not his birth making it about 5991.
 

stilllearning

Well-known member
Oct 4, 2021
576
293
63
#80
I've heard it's related to the double slit experiment.
Could be, I have to admit have never dug into how they arrived at their take. While I have seen the seeds planted in the multiverse hypothesis and it better explained in the Simulation hypothesis. I was unaware of the double slit experiment so will have to read up on it.