Is the false teaching of pre-tribulation rapture, getting the power of "him" out of the way, who restrains the antichrist?

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Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
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Textbook pre-trib stuff here. I have heard the "Revelation 4:1" is the rapture lie so many times. There is NOTHING about a resurrection in revelation 4:1, and there is NOTHING about the church in there either. Its about JOHN the person, being shown things to come, one person, THATS IT.

You just gotta add to the text to shove the rapture somewhere before the second coming, even though the Bible itself NEVER mentions two separate comings. You can try to confuse people into believing it does by saying "one is FOR the church another one is WITH the church" and all that. "one has wrath, another one doesnt" well. THESE are no contradictions or separate comings, its just as it says in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-9, it is WRATH to the unbelievers, and REST to the believers, same coming, same time, different perspective based on which side you are on!
Exactly, splendour for the righteous is simultaneously terror for the wicked.
That glorious light of his appears hideous to those not covered with the blood of The Lamb. We are so blessed!

Psalm 68 (CSB)

1 God arises. His enemies scatter,
and those who hate him flee from his presence.
2 As smoke is blown away,
so you blow them away.
As wax melts before the fire,
so the wicked are destroyed before God.
3 But the righteous are glad;
they rejoice before God and celebrate with joy.
 

Lisamn

Active member
Dec 29, 2020
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Yes they have been slain for that but it has been happening for a long time. The Middle East was once majority Christian.
Don't forget things John saw were in HIS future but not everything in the Revelation is still in OUR future. We are living nearly 2000 years later.
No, I don’t think it has been happening for a long time...these people were beheaded.

Where in the Middle East was it majority Christian? You must be forgetting that God said Ishmael will be a nation too.

I’m not sure what you are talking about that everything in Revelation was in John’s future but not everything is in ours?
 
Mar 21, 2009
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New York
Soul sleep isn't a biblical doctrine.
Biblically, a person “sleeping” in relation to death doesn't indicate literal sleep. Sleeping is a way of describing death because a dead body appears to be asleep, lying down. Your body is just an outer husk. When it dies your spirit still lives with Jesus.
See Philipians 1: 21-23, 2 Corinthians 5:6, 8 Eph 3:14-16

Do you realise he has put HIS Spirit in you? You have a new Spirit which doesn't die just because your body does. Romans 8:16 The Spirit himself testifies together with our spirit that we are God’s children.

John didn't see all things in heaven. He saw what he was shown and he saw visions. He did see a vision of 24 elders.
He saw the martyrs Rev 6:9 right under the alter. These are souls of people who were slain for their witness. There may be millions
if you count them for the last 2000 years.
Amen. The 24 elders were representative of the entire priesthood of kings and priests that shall reign on the earth. 24 Governors were over the entire priesthood 2 Chron 24. It might be symbolic of all the raptured. They sing a song saying "you have redeemed us from every nation, tribe, tongue, and that would be more than 24, and more than Jews.
 
May 22, 2020
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Some need scripture study;
There is a pre trib period
There is a Rapture
There is a post trib.
 

ewq1938

Active member
Oct 18, 2018
658
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Some need scripture study;
There is a pre trib period
There is a Rapture
There is a post trib.
The rapture is after the GT has ended, after Christ's second coming begins, after the resurrection of the dead in Christ.

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.(second coming reference)
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord (second coming reference) shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven (second coming reference) with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (the resurrection of the dead in Christ)
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (the rapture)

Since the resurrection only happens at the second coming and that we have the rapture happening AFTER the resurrection and second coming means these verses decisively prove the rapture is post-trib not pre-trib.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
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Anaheim, Cali.
The rapture is after the GT has ended, after Christ's second coming begins, after the resurrection of the dead in Christ.

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.(second coming reference)
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord (second coming reference) shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven (second coming reference) with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (the resurrection of the dead in Christ)
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (the rapture)

Since the resurrection only happens at the second coming and that we have the rapture happening AFTER the resurrection and second coming means these verses decisively prove the rapture is post-trib not pre-trib.
Not! You left mid trib out of the equations.
 

ewq1938

Active member
Oct 18, 2018
658
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Not! You left mid trib out of the equations.
Nothing but post-trib is possible according to those verses. Both the second coming and resurrection of the dead in Christ happen after the trib has ended, not before it starts nor in the middle of it.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
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You said the foolish are saved...they don’t look to be saved to me.
They had light. Only belivers do
They are virgins. Pure undefined. Only believers are
They had oil. Oil is a type of the Holy Spirit.
They fellowships with belivers.
They were waiting for Jesus return.

Jesus said "I know you not"

Mary did not "know" a man


"Know" is used for intimacy.
The foolish were carnal Christian's. Saved but carnal.
Not worthy.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
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The rapture is after the GT has ended, after Christ's second coming begins, after the resurrection of the dead in Christ.

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.(second coming reference)
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord (second coming reference) shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven (second coming reference) with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (the resurrection of the dead in Christ)
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (the rapture)

Since the resurrection only happens at the second coming and that we have the rapture happening AFTER the resurrection and second coming means these verses decisively prove the rapture is post-trib not pre-trib.
As if the other rapture verses do not exist.

All you posted is used by both sides.

As is mat 24,where you ignore "gathered from heaven"
And "Angel's do the gathering"
When it is vivid and clear that in rev 19 Jesus returns with the saints already in heaven and the bride has become the wife in heaven.

You just ignore it when all that is confirmed in the last supper dialog.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
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Nothing but post-trib is possible according to those verses. Both the second coming and resurrection of the dead in Christ happen after the trib has ended, not before it starts nor in the middle of it.
None of your teachers include or debate the rapture verses.
Crickets.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
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Textbook pre-trib stuff here. I have heard the "Revelation 4:1" is the rapture lie so many times. There is NOTHING about a resurrection in revelation 4:1, and there is NOTHING about the church in there either. Its about JOHN the person, being shown things to come, one person, THATS IT.

You just gotta add to the text to shove the rapture somewhere before the second coming, even though the Bible itself NEVER mentions two separate comings. You can try to confuse people into believing it does by saying "one is FOR the church another one is WITH the church" and all that. "one has wrath, another one doesnt" well. THESE are no contradictions or separate comings, its just as it says in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-9, it is WRATH to the unbelievers, and REST to the believers, same coming, same time, different perspective based on which side you are on!
...and you say all that while leaving out the rapture verses that are clearly pretrib.

Carry on
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
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I think the parable of the 5 virgins is a parable. :) Which means that it is using an illustration from common culture scenario (Jewish wedding customs) to drive home or illuminate understanding about what it means to "always be ready" because you don't know when the Lord will return. It is not an allegory. I think too much is attempted in allegorizing the details of the story rather than the lesson in the parable. Different parables can be used to teach the same lesson. It would be confusing to try and make them be roadmaps for the timing of the tribulation. That was not the lesson at all.
Jesus comes AFTER the gt ON A WHITE HORSE.

Jesus comes in the parable with no white horse.

The parable of the virgins is a vivid depiction of the rapture.

How can you possibly not see it?

And yes a parable is a story within a story.

Usually a no brainer at that.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
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Hardly anyone seems to notice that there is something missing from this alleged rapture blueprint.
Where there is a bridegroom and there are 10 virgins (bridesmaids?), there is no bride. It took years for me to notice that. :rolleyes:
It's one among 3 parables but the 10 virgins parable gets most of the attention.
It is a parable.
A parable has a "take away"

The take away is not that there are 10 brides or that only 10 people are being addressed.

Just as the parable can be corrupted, it can be taken also for what it is..an illustration.
Jesus said parables were given in code. Actually designed to be misinterpreted by those not family.
Only by the spirit is it inpacked.

It is easy to spot those that corrupt it.

They micro manage it and remove the facts from the story.

Jesus personally unpacked some of them.
 

Rondonmon

Senior Member
May 13, 2016
395
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very well said and great insight. I actually felt the HS as I was reading.
Thank you brother, I got sick today, my bile lever or something rose up, I get that way every once in a while where it feels like I have a concrete block in my stomach all day. Once I chucked it up and drank some Apple Cider Vinegar I got to feeling a little better.

I think my diabetes pills cause it to happen every once n a while. They feed us poison, and our liver is overburdened.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
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...and you say all that while leaving out the rapture verses that are clearly pretrib.

Carry on
Show me one. Ive yet to see ONE pre-trib verse. OR any verse that mentions two separate comings to begin with, you'd think Paul would mention things like this when he uses the DEFINITE article, THE coming. not A coming. THE singular coming of the Lord.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
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2,597
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They had light. Only belivers do
They are virgins. Pure undefined. Only believers are
They had oil. Oil is a type of the Holy Spirit.
They fellowships with belivers.
They were waiting for Jesus return.

Jesus said "I know you not"

Mary did not "know" a man


"Know" is used for intimacy.
The foolish were carnal Christian's. Saved but carnal.
Not worthy.
Not worthy of the resurrection? RIDICILOUS. If you have the Holy Spirit you are His and you are going to the resurection of LIFE no matter what. The rapturemania has to stop.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
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Show me one. Ive yet to see ONE pre-trib verse. OR any verse that mentions two separate comings to begin with, you'd think Paul would mention things like this when he uses the DEFINITE article, THE coming. not A coming. THE singular coming of the Lord.
There's none that SPECIFICALLY SAYS Jesus blew his nose.

Therefore he never did.

That is the FOUNDATION OF YOUR position.

You do not take ANY rapture verse and analize it.

Instead you go to shaky foundation.


All I am saying is that postrib rapture is IMPOSSIBLE.

1) JESUS SITTING ON A CLOUD...IS NOT
Jesus coming in power on a white horse. (With billions of white horse riders)
2) "BEFORE" in mat 24 can not possibly be "AFTER"
3) DEAD RISE FIRST can not possibly be AFTER the gathering in rev 14.
4) you Must rearrange the virgin parable.
Pssst...you need to erroneously insert horse/horses into the groom's coming.
5) the angel was wrong or confused in acts 1 when he said "Jesus comes back to you, not with a horse or in power or war or killing.
Psssst....you again need horse and horses,power and killing and vengeance somehow bizarrely inserted.

6) and what in the world do you guys do with the evil dreaded escape verses??????
7) You must reframe Noah and lot to be caught up AFTER JUDGEMENT.
8) BY ALL MEANS IGNORE rev 14 as pointing to a gathering of the Jews. Which every single postrib does.
9)and finally we can not have "all take the mark" as declared in rev.
Therefore the innumerable number can not be the billions beheaded DURING the gt.
(You need a nominal group martyred....since an innumerable number suggests all of you die in the gt via beheading.

Not to mention NONE of your teachers bother with the Core of end times (the main pinnacle/ the heart of heaven....the GATHERING OF THE BRIDE)
NONE of you teachers bother with the purpose...THE PURPOSE ...of the rapture.

How can that be ??????

And btw....all your teachers have yet to realize that in 1947 end times prophecy was forever reset by Israel becoming a nation.
THAT IS WHY your teachers glorify the church fathers...and yet THEIR ENTIRE POSITION was framed in a erroneous destroyed Israel as a nation and people.

Now Every time you say we are demonically inspired try to shift that dynamic through the WORD that you guys ignore.
 
Mar 21, 2009
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New York
Jesus comes AFTER the gt ON A WHITE HORSE.

Jesus comes in the parable with no white horse.

The parable of the virgins is a vivid depiction of the rapture.

How can you possibly not see it?

And yes a parable is a story within a story.

Usually a no brainer at that.
You're demonstrating the confusion that can be created by trying to make it an allegory when it is a parable. But go ahead, people will keep doing it until Jesus comes again. If you have to see white horses in it, you are turning it into something other than a parable. You might as well say that there are only 5 people saved.