Is the Hebrew Roots Movement a cult?

[danschance]

Now, before you jump all over me, I quoted what this man said transpired in his conversation with Mark Biltz. If this didn't happen, or it's not true, blame him not me. But I did go directly to the Last Trumpet website for the quote. Now, to be perfectly honest, what I found on the El Shaddai website, written by Biltz himself, is more than enough information to make my case.

Mark Biltz seeks to "straighten out the Christians"

Now people have approached me saying that Mark Blitz is a "good guy" with incredible insight to bible prophecy. I wonder how good his insight is if he thinks that Sunday church attendance qualifies you as one of the "foolish virgins" of the Tribulation. His group is one of many in the Hebrew Roots community that minimize the teachings of the Apostle Paul, or at the very least say they should be taken with a grain of salt. This is very, very dangerous teaching, my beloved in Christ, and the whole purpose of it is to make you doubt the New Testament, and to get you to believe in "another gospel", as the bible so clearly warns us would happen in the last days. His attack is all the more deadly because it's subtle. He is trying to sow seeds of doubt in your faith in the New Testament with a "yea, hath God said?" approach.

In Mark Blitz's own words, he states that Christians don't really know Jesus and that don't really know the bible, and in doing so allows us to peek behind the curtain into what the real goals of his group as well as all Hebrew Roots groups is - destroying the Church. Here is Mark quoted directly from his website:

"My goal is not to convert Jews to Christianity but to bring non-Jews to a better understanding of YHVH through a better understanding of Torah. I think most Christians do not know YHVH as He really is but know Him as they have tried to create Him in their image rather than understanding they were created in His image. Many Christians believe they have a relationship with YHVH but they don't.

The time is coming when the Jewish people will recognize the role Yeshua played and they will then fulfill their mission in taking Torah to the nations. They will straighten out the Christians theology in what Yeshua was really saying. There will be Christians who will be saying what can these Jews know about Yeshua when in actuality you will have the correct understanding. In Christianity as you probably know there will be an antichrist and false prophet who deceive the world." Source - Mark Blitz and El Shaddai

So Mark Biltz thinks that the bible believing Christians need to be "straightened out"? What he is really after is taking the liberty we have in Christ and replacing it with the yoke of the Law, which Jesus Himself took off of our backs. This is, without a doubt,the "other gospel" that Paul warned against, get involved with these people at your own peril. Make no mistake, the followers of Jesus Christ, according to the bible, are Christians, and Mark Blitz is very much anti-christian both by things he has said and by his associations. In the quote of Biltz, he very frankly says that he goal is to make non-christian followers of Jesus. Now how exactly does one do that? Answer is that you cannot do that. The very term "christian", in it's most literal sense is a "follower of Jesus Christ." A non-Christian "follower of Jesus" would be like having a "vegetarian meat-eater".

From The Hebrew Roots Cult Movement - Part 2 - Hatred for Christians and the Apostle Paul

We have seen it many times here, how the HRMers love to be judgmental and even elitist. Look thru this thread and you sewill many examples of that. So sad.

 

[Hizikyah]

Like all cults, the Hebrew Roots Movement have their own "version" of the Bible, which of course, is the only version you are allowed to use. This Hebrew Roots "version" is called the "Restoration Scriptures:True Name Edition"

View attachment 78368

This translation may be terrible or may be great, I have never read it to say.

But are you suggesting that just because a translator translated not according to common practice (brought on by the Pharisees I have to add) but rather translates true to the manuscript and true to the creator, actually using His name instead of hiding it they are cult and wrong?

Im asking, not stating.

I want to add, what do you think about translations that remove the Name of the Creator?

My King James Bible does not remove the Name of the Creator!

I should specify, it may merit another response, the Name of the Father is what I meant.

SO it says YHWH or Yahweh?

Every KJV I have seen says, "the Lord"

Im still waiting for a reply please?

 

[Linda70]

Mark Biltz's curious position on biblical salvation

"And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house." Acts 16:31

It says in the bible that to go to Heaven you must be saved. Without salvation in Jesus Christ, no one can enter into Heaven. No one. So when asked if the goal of his movement was to "get Jews saved", he gave the typical double-speak of the cult leader. Listen to his own words on getting Jews saved -

"I can’t speak for everyone but only for myself. First I would say that there probably really is no central goal of the Hebrew roots movement. Everyone is there for different multiple reasons. As long as you have humans and religions you will have multiple motives. I find some just want to build kingdoms to themselves not unlike some of the Pharisees and Sadducees and many Christian ministers of today. Here I am speaking of many of the leaders. Also, just like the multiple denominations in both Judaism and Christianity you can’t lump the Messianic/Hebrew Roots movements into one motivation. The central goal is to know YHVH and to make Him known. My goal is not to convert Jews to Christianity but to bring non-Jews to a better understanding of YHVH through a better understanding of Torah." source - Mark Biltz website

The "central goal is to know YHVH"? Really, Mark? Lots of people know God, but do not know His Son, Jesus. The bible says that God gave the power to Jesus - "And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth." Matthew 28:18. Simply "knowing God" doesn't get the job done with the bible has said that God gave Jesus all authority. Jesus is the Gate, He is our entrance to the Father, not the Torah. And if you do not receive biblical, New Testament salvation, you are lost and heading for Hell. The Torah will not and cannot save you. Keep the Torah all you like, if you are not SAVED, you are lost and damned to Hell. The bible is crystal clear on this. I know this is offensive to a lot of people, and it offended people in Jesus' day as well. So much so they killed him for it. And they killed Paul for teaching it. But it's the Truth, like it or not.

Jesus, in His own words, said this is why He came into the world - "For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost." Luke 19:10. And yet, amazingly, Mark Biltz is not here to see Jews get saved, but as he states repeatedly, he wants to see them "know YHVH". Biltz's own words put him at odds with the clear bible teaching that ALL must be saved in order to enter Heaven. Clearly this is another gospel, because it does not match with the one in the bible.

Mark Biltz is not a Christian, and in fact is very much against Christians and Christianity - "I believe Christianity has hijacked Yeshua and has been presenting an Egyptian which is why Yeshua is not recognized." source - Mark Biltz. Biltz is attempting to make you feel bad for being a Christian, and his every stated aim is to lead you away from being a Christian. If the Holy Spirit leads you to being a follower of Jesus, a CHRISTian, who is it that would want to lead you away from it? Hmmm....

What Mark Biltz teaches is the very definition of a cult. He is trying to lead people away from a saving faith in Jesus, and to lead them to the Torah. He quotes from the New Testament to confuse people, but he picks and chooses his way through, carefully avoiding passages that show salvation is through a person - Jesus - and not through keeping the Law or following the Torah. The Torah is awesome and it has it's place, but the Torah makes up less than 10% of the books of the bible. The bible starts with the Torah, but it ends with a person, Jesus returning in Glory. The goal of the bible is to lead you to Jesus, not lead you to the Torah. The Torah simply lets you know your lost condition, the solution to that problem is Jesus. All 66 books of the bible are of equal value, they are all there for a reason and a purpose. The combined revelation of all of them is the bible, not an isolated section.

So now you know the real and stated goals of Mark Biltz and El Shaddai, and of the larger Hebrew Roots movement in general. It is our recommendation that if you want to be true to what the bible actually teaches, that you will avoid these and all false teachers who pervert the word of God for their own selfish gain. The goal of the bible is not to lead you to the Torah, it is to lead you to the One who wrote the Torah, Jesus.

But don't take my word for it, listen to the bible -

"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. "Acts 4:12

Mark, are you listening? If you are not working to see people get saved - and your own testimony says you are not, that you are "leading them to YHVH" - then you are not doing the work of Jesus.

The Hebrew Roots Cult Movement - Part 2: Hatred for Christians and the Apostle Paul

 

[eternally-gratefull]

But your whole thought process about the rituals is pure evil. You use them as a weapon against people, just as some people use guns against other people.

Oh I do? How is that? Do I go around telling people they should ignore them? That they have no meaning? see you still prove you have no idea what I believe

Girl it is you who use them as a weapon.

1. You condemn people who do not follow them.
2. You hold people in bondage by telling them they should follow these rituals as they will be closer to God when they do so. what that was NEVER the intended purpose of them, and in doing so. you keep them from doing what God really wants them to do.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I should specify, it may merit another response, the Name of the Father is what I meant.

SO it says YHWH or Yahweh?

Every KJV I have seen says, "the Lord"

so God is not your Lord?

I guess that explains alot

 

[Hizikyah]

Luke 6:46, "And why call Me; Ruler! Ruler! and do not the things which I say?"

 

[Linda70]

Im still waiting for a reply please?

Wait until the cows come home.....my King James Bible is God's Word. When the word Lord is all in CAPS - LORD, it is translated as JEHOVAH

Way of Life Encyclopedia
JEHOVAH

A name of God used in the Old Testament (Psalms 83:18). It refers to God as the One who keeps covenant and mercy with His people. The true pronunciation of this name has been lost through the passing centuries since God revealed it to Israel. The Jews were afraid to pronounce the name; therefore, the original pronunciation has been lost. In the Hebrew text of the Old Testament we have only the consonants JAH for the name Jehovah. The vowels are uncertain, as the pronunciation of the name was lost before vowel markings were added to the Hebrew text centuries ago. Thus Jehovah might or might not be the original pronunciation of God's name. The meaning of the name, though, is clear from Scripture.

[See God, Jehovah-Jireh, Jehovah-Nissi, Jehovah-Shalom, Jehovah-Tsidkenu, Jesus Christ.]

Strong's Hebrew Dictionary
3068. Y@hovah

Search for H3068 in KJVSL
hwhy Y@hovah yeh-ho-vaw'

from 1961; (the) self-Existent or Eternal; Jehovah, Jewish national name of God:--Jehovah, the Lord. Compare 3050, 3069.

See Hebrew 1961
See Hebrew 3050
See Hebrew 3069

 

[Hizikyah]

Wait until the cows come home.....my King James Bible is God's Word. When the word Lord is all in CAPS - LORD, it is translated as JEHOVAH

That didnt answer either one of my questions.

I am curious on your views on these matters as you seem to have strong views and have no problem voicing them, which I think is perfectly ok, I think thats how it should be, but in relevance to you statements today, Im curious on those certain issues.

 

[Hizikyah]

 

[Hizikyah]

 

[Linda70]

That didnt answer either one of my questions.

I am curious on your views on these matters as you seem to have strong views and have no problem voicing them, which I think is perfectly ok, I think thats how it should be, but in relevance to you statements today, Im curious on those certain issues.

If you haven't read both of those articles I have been posting, then I would recommend you do so. I am in agreement with the author of those articles and with the majority of what is posted on the NTEB website. I am NOT into the "True Name"/Sacred Name movement. I am a born again, blood-washed, justified, sanctified, and sealed with the Holy Spirit Christian....not through believing in some "True Name" of the LORD, but by grace alone, through faith alone, in the Lord Jesus Christ alone...without an admixture of works. If this doesn't answer your question, then so be it. That's all I have. Salvation is simple, but man makes it very complex.

 

[Hizikyah]

If you haven't read both of those articles I have been posting, then I would recommend you do so. I am in agreement with the author of those articles and with the majority of what is posted on the NTEB website. I am NOT into the "True Name"/Sacred Name movement. I am a born again, blood-washed, justified, sanctified, and sealed with the Holy Spirit Christian....not through believing in some "True Name" of the LORD, but by grace alone, through faith alone, in the Lord Jesus Christ alone...without an admixture of works. If this doesn't answer your question, then so be it. That's all I have. Salvation is simple, but man makes it very complex.

I am glad you seek the Father and His Messiah. That is our purpose in life.

But to cast criticism towards people (I have never seen Mark Blitz or that translation) I think it fair to respond to fair questions seeing as you are ok to publicly criticize. To be fully honest, please dont take this the wrong way, I feel like you are running from those questions to maintain a consistent doctrine. Also to project "true Name" against "grace alone" is unmerited from anything I have wrote IMO, if I am reading you words right, I see it as an attempt to disarm and lessen the value of the name of the Father. But text does not fully convey tone or intent.

I would still like a response concerning those matters. But also a new question arises in my mind.

I am not saying anything here I just am asking your opinion on this verse:

Revelation 14:12, "Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus."

1785. entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I am glad you seek the Father and His Messiah. That is our purpose in life.

But to cast criticism towards people (I have never seen Mark Blitz or that translation) I think it fair to respond to fair questions seeing as you are ok to publicly criticize. To be fully honest, please dont take this the wrong way, I feel like you are running from those questions to maintain a consistent doctrine. Also to project "true Name" against "grace alone" is unmerited from anything I have wrote IMO, if I am reading you words right, I see it as an attempt to disarm and lessen the value of the name of the Father. But text does not fully convey tone or intent.

I would still like a response concerning those matters. But also a new question arises in my mind.

I am not saying anything here I just am asking your opinion on this verse:

Revelation 14:12, "Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus."

1785. entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law

lol commands, God gave many of them.. That does not mean he is speaking of the mosaic law. lets get real now.

 

[Hizikyah]

lol commands, God gave many of them.. That does not mean he is speaking of the mosaic law. lets get real now.

Is Romans 3:31 speaking of the "Mosaic" Law?

Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"

the word Law is: 3551. nomos
nomos: that which is assigned, hence usage, law
Original Word: νόμος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: nomos
Phonetic Spelling: (nom'-os)
Short Definition: a law, the Mosaic Law
Definition: usage, custom, law; in NT: of law in general, plur: of divine laws; of a force or influence impelling to action; of the Mosaic law; meton: of the books which contain the law, the Pentateuch, the Old Testament scriptures in general.

Malakyah 4:1-4,"For, behold, the day comes that will burn like an oven; and all the proud, yes, and all who do wickedly, will be stubble--the day that comes will burn them up, says Yahweh of hosts; and it will leave them neither root nor branch. But for you who reverence My Name, the light of righteousness will arise with healing in its wings; and you will go out, leaping like calves released from the stall. And you will tread down the wicked; for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I will do this, says Yahweh of hosts. Remember the Law of Mosheh My servant, which I commanded through him in Horeb for all Israyl, with the statutes and judgments."

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Is Romans 3:31 speaking of the "Mosaic" Law?

Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"

the word Law is: 3551. nomos
nomos: that which is assigned, hence usage, law
Original Word: νόμος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: nomos
Phonetic Spelling: (nom'-os)
Short Definition: a law, the Mosaic Law
Definition: usage, custom, law; in NT: of law in general, plur: of divine laws; of a force or influence impelling to action; of the Mosaic law; meton: of the books which contain the law, the Pentateuch, the Old Testament scriptures in general.

Malakyah 4:1-4,"For, behold, the day comes that will burn like an oven; and all the proud, yes, and all who do wickedly, will be stubble--the day that comes will burn them up, says Yahweh of hosts; and it will leave them neither root nor branch. But for you who reverence My Name, the light of righteousness will arise with healing in its wings; and you will go out, leaping like calves released from the stall. And you will tread down the wicked; for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I will do this, says Yahweh of hosts. Remember the Law of Mosheh My servant, which I commanded through him in Horeb for all Israyl, with the statutes and judgments."

What does that have to do with revelation. Whole different context there..

 

[JGIG]

No, it is not for a joke, it is to get on the subject of HRM. You keep being on the subject of law. The HRM is an outgrowth of the information about the roots of our faith, not about law.

From Wikipedia:

Hebrew Roots is a contemporary global spiritual movement / Awakening that advocates the return and adherence to the first century walk of faith and obedience to the Torah [SUP][1][/SUP] by Jesus (known as Yeshua HaMashiach, the Hebrew name for "Jesus the Messiah") by seeking a better understanding of the culture, history, and religio-political backdrop of that era which led to the core differences with both the Jewish, and later, the Christian communities.[SUP][2]

[/SUP]​

Tell us again how the HRM is not about the Law . . .

God is not law.

But you say you believe that Jesus is God and that Jesus is the Living Torah . . . so that must mean that God is law.

Which is it, RedTent?

God is Law or God is not Law?

You cannot have it both ways.

You are making it all about such physical things as rituals. If they explore rituals, it is not the kind you are saying, for rituals are not law.

Feasts are rituals.

Feasts are the Law.

Rituals, then, are also Law.

You say rituals are not Law.

So are rituals Law or aren't they?

Again, you cannot have it both ways.

they look into the roots, you are constantly changing the subject to make it about superficial things.

Feast, Day, dietary, and hundreds of other laws ARE part of the subject - which is whether or not Christians are bound to Torah observance.

Are you saying that those are superficial things?

Are you calling the Law as God gave it 'superficial'?

God is spirit and truth, if you talk about God you would have to know to speak about spirit and truth. Law without that is nothing. Yet your discussion centers on superficial law.

We're basing what we teach based on the fulfillment of the Law, Who is Christ:

17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. (from Jn. 1)​

And if we are in Christ, we are worshipping in Spirit and Truth. And if we are in the Spirit, being led by the Spirit, we are not under Law:

18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. (from Gal. 5)​

-JGIG

 

[RedTent]

Oh I do? How is that? Do I go around telling people they should ignore them? That they have no meaning? see you still prove you have no idea what I believe

Girl it is you who use them as a weapon.

1. You condemn people who do not follow them.
2. You hold people in bondage by telling them they should follow these rituals as they will be closer to God when they do so. what that was NEVER the intended purpose of them, and in doing so. you keep them from doing what God really wants them to do.

You can find no post of mine saying people are to follow rituals.

I have never called anyone a liar. I have said what they say about God is not what scripture says and that is wrong. I could go through your posts and find many condemning people. Calling them liars, and saying they fib is very mild for you.

 

[faroukfarouk]

From Wikipedia:

Hebrew Roots is a contemporary global spiritual movement / Awakening that advocates the return and adherence to the first century walk of faith and obedience to the Torah [SUP][1][/SUP] by Jesus (known as Yeshua HaMashiach, the Hebrew name for "Jesus the Messiah") by seeking a better understanding of the culture, history, and religio-political backdrop of that era which led to the core differences with both the Jewish, and later, the Christian communities.[SUP][2]

[/SUP]​

Tell us again how the HRM is not about the Law . . .




But you say you believe that Jesus is God and that Jesus is the Living Torah . . . so that must mean that God is law.

Which is it, RedTent?

God is Law or God is not Law?

You cannot have it both ways.





Feasts are rituals.

Feasts are the Law.

Rituals, then, are also Law.

You say rituals are not Law.

So are rituals Law or aren't they?

Again, you cannot have it both ways.




Feast, Day, dietary, and hundreds of other laws ARE part of the subject - which is whether or not Christians are bound to Torah observance.

Are you saying that those are superficial things?

Are you calling the Law as God gave it 'superficial'?




We're basing what we teach based on the fulfillment of the Law, Who is Christ:

17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. (from Jn. 1)​

And if we are in Christ, we are worshipping in Spirit and Truth. And if we are in the Spirit, being led by the Spirit, we are not under Law:

18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. (from Gal. 5)​

-JGIG

My reading of the New Testament is that the believer in the Lord Jesus is under grace, not the law. Galatians, Romans, Hebrews; the experiences of the Apostles in the Acts: all seem to point in this direction.

 

[JGIG]

OK, so you cannot discuss scripture, and our discussion is only throwing out such as "liars" "fibs".

Yeah, you don't like it much when we point out when you're not telling the truth . . .

And nearly all of my posts contain Scripture, while nearly none of yours do.

You were saying?

My suggestion that you get out bible to discuss these things becomes only an accusation that I have descended to your level,

One could only hope that you would start using Scripture. We are using it, and proving our position quite well.

Why won't you use Scripture, RedTent? You say you do, but anyone can look through your posts to see that you do not.

Why not?

. . . it becomes in your posts not anything to do with using bible for talk, but a basis of childish talk.

Another fib, sigh.

My conclusion is that you are representing the organized church, and the organized church is too superficial, too legalistic, too uninformed about bible except for the 10% of bible that is new in the NT, and without any of the rest of the bible taken seriously cannot think about God.

Which 'organized church' is that, RedTent? You can't stand up to Scriptural proof that your chosen belief system is flawed, so you try to conjure up a boogie man and fabricate more fibs in ANOTHER ad hominem fallacy attempt.

It really does get old.

No wonder Christ will return to judge us all.

And what will Christ's Body be judged about?

Sin?

Works?

Deeds?

Please, USE SCRIPTURE for your answer.

Thank you Lord, there is a remnant of people who look to God.

I, too, am thankful for that, though I think what we would identify as the remnant is very different.

So you guys have away with your angers and finger pointing without scripture to back it!! We cannot talk, I can see, with scripture guiding us for you are not guided by scripture but by things that are not of God.

And there she goes again . . . and so will I:

You can't stand up to Scriptural proof that your chosen belief system is flawed, so you try to conjure up a boogie man and fabricate more fibs in ANOTHER ad hominem fallacy attempt.

It really does get old.

-JGIG

 

[Linda70]

I am glad you seek the Father and His Messiah. That is our purpose in life.

But to cast criticism towards people (I have never seen Mark Blitz or that translation) I think it fair to respond to fair questions seeing as you are ok to publicly criticize. To be fully honest, please dont take this the wrong way, I feel like you are running from those questions to maintain a consistent doctrine. Also to project "true Name" against "grace alone" is unmerited from anything I have wrote IMO, if I am reading you words right, I see it as an attempt to disarm and lessen the value of the name of the Father. But text does not fully convey tone or intent.

I would still like a response concerning those matters. But also a new question arises in my mind.

I am not saying anything here I just am asking your opinion on this verse:

Revelation 14:12, "Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus."

1785. entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law

I apologize that my response didn't answer your question concerning "these matters"(the sacred name "matters"), but I am ending my discussion on "these matters" at this point. I don't know what you are needing, and I'm sorry, but I will not continue on this "merry-go-round".

Are you pulling one verse (Revelation 14:12) "out of context" and asking my "opinion"? I do not give"opinions" about any verses of Scripture...especially when single verses are pulled out of context. This is how cults get started.