Is the Hebrew Roots Movement a cult?
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Romans 3:24
and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.
dikaioó: to show to be righteous, declare righteous
Original Word: δικαιόω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: dikaioó
Phonetic Spelling: (dik-ah-yo'-o)
Short Definition: I make righteous, defend the cause of, justify
Definition: I make righteous, defend the cause of, plead for the righteousness (innocence) of, acquit, justify; hence: I regard as righteous.
Cognate: 1344 dikaióō (from dikē, "right, judicial-approval") – properly, approved, especially in a legal, authoritative sense; to show what is right, i.e. conformed to a proper standard (i.e. "upright").
The believer is "made righteous/justified" (1344 /dikaióō) by the Lord, cleared of all charges (punishment) related to their sins. Moreover, they are justified (1344 /dikaióō, "made right, righteous") by God's grace each time they receive (obey) faith (4102 /pístis), i.e. "God's inwrought persuasion" (cf. the -oō ending which conveys "to bring to/out"). See 1343 (dikaiosynē).
dórea: a gift
Original Word: δωρεά, ᾶς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: dórea
Phonetic Spelling: (do-reh-ah')
Short Definition: a free gift
Definition: a (free) gift, a gift (without repayment).
1431 dōreá (a feminine noun, derived from 1325 /dídōmi) – a gift, freely given and hence not acquired by merit or "entitlement." 1431 /dōreá (a feminine noun) expresses a brand of giving that highlights the beneficent desire of the giver.
charis: grace, kindness
Original Word: χάρις, ιτος, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: charis
Phonetic Spelling: (khar'-ece)
Short Definition: grace, favor, kindness
Definition: (a) grace, as a gift or blessing brought to man by Jesus Christ, (b) favor, (c) gratitude, thanks, (d) a favor, kindness.
Cognate: 5485 xáris (another feminine noun from xar-, "favor, disposed to, inclined, favorable towards, leaning towards to share benefit") – properly, grace. 5485 (xáris) is preeminently used of the Lord's favor – freely extended to give Himself away to people (because He is "always leaning toward them").
5485 /xáris ("grace") answers directly to the Hebrew (OT) term 2580 /Kaná ("grace, extension-toward"). Both refer to God freely extending Himself (His favor, grace), reaching (inclining) to people because He is disposed to bless (be near) them.
[5485 (xáris) is sometimes rendered "thanks" but the core-idea is "favor, grace" ("extension towards").]
........
Ephesians 1
Praise for Spiritual Blessings in Christ
3Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves
To the praise of the glory of His grace
The ultimate aim of foreordained. Glory is an attribute of grace: that in which grace grandly and resplendently displays itself. Praise is called forth from the children of God by this divine glory which thus appears in grace. The grace is not merely favor, gift, but it reveals also the divine character. In praising God for what He does, we learn to praise Him for what He is.
The correct reading is ἧς which, referring to grace. The meaning is not endued us with grace, nor made us worthy of love, but, as Rev., grace - which he freely bestowed. Grace is an act of God, not a state into which He brings us.
Vincent
(9) The uttermost and chiefest final cause is the glory of God the Father, who saves us freely in his Son.
Geneva
6. (Eph 1:7, 17, 18). The end aimed at (Ps 50:23), that is, that the glory of His grace may be praised by all His creatures, men and angels.
JFBBC
................
I. He gives them the true character of those teachers who were industrious to seduce them, in several particulars. As,
1. They were men who desired to make a fair show in the flesh, v. 12. They were very zealous for the externals of religion, forward to observe, and to oblige others to observe, the rites of the ceremonial law, though at the same time they had little or no regard to real piety; for, as the apostle says of them in the following verse, neither do they themselves keep the law. Proud, vain, and carnal hearts desire nothing more than to make a fair show in the flesh, and they can easily be content with so much religion as will help them to keep up such a fair show; but frequently those have least of the substance of religion who are most solicitous to make a show of it.
2. They were men who were afraid of suffering, for they constrained the Gentile Christians to be circumcised, only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ. It was not so much out of a regard to the law as to themselves; they were willing to sleep in a whole skin, and to save their worldly cargo, and cared not though they made shipwreck of faith and a good conscience. That which they chiefly aimed at was to please the Jews, and to keep up their reputation among them, and so to prevent the trouble that Paul, and other faithful professors of the doctrine of Christ, lay open to. And,
3. Another part of their character was that they were men of a party spirit, and who had no further zeal for the law than as it subserved their carnal and selfish designs; for they desired to have these Christians circumcised, that they might glory in their flesh (v. 13), that they might say they had gained them over to their side, and made proselytes of them, of which they carried the mark in their flesh. And thus, while they pretended to promote religion, they were the greatest enemies of it; for nothing has been more destructive to the interest of religion than men-siding and party-making.
II. He acquaints us, on the other hand, with his own temper and behaviour, or makes profession of his own faith, hope, and joy; particularly,
1. That his principle glory was in the cross of Christ: God forbid, says he, that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, v. 14. By the cross of Christ is here meant his sufferings and death on the cross, or the doctrine of salvation by a crucified Redeemer.
This was what the Jews stumbled at and the Greeks accounted foolishness; and the judaizing teachers themselves, though they had embraced Christianity, yet were so far ashamed of it that in compliance with the Jews, and to avoid persecution from them, they were for mixing the observance of the law of Moses with faith in Christ, as necessary to salvation.
But Paul had a very different opinion of it; he was so far from being offended at the cross of Christ, or ashamed of it, or afraid to own it, that he gloried in it; yea, he desired to glory in nothing else, and rejected the thought of setting up anything in competition with it, as the object of his esteem, with the utmost abhorrence; God forbid, etc.
Matthew Henry
and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.
dikaioó: to show to be righteous, declare righteous
Original Word: δικαιόω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: dikaioó
Phonetic Spelling: (dik-ah-yo'-o)
Short Definition: I make righteous, defend the cause of, justify
Definition: I make righteous, defend the cause of, plead for the righteousness (innocence) of, acquit, justify; hence: I regard as righteous.
Cognate: 1344 dikaióō (from dikē, "right, judicial-approval") – properly, approved, especially in a legal, authoritative sense; to show what is right, i.e. conformed to a proper standard (i.e. "upright").
The believer is "made righteous/justified" (1344 /dikaióō) by the Lord, cleared of all charges (punishment) related to their sins. Moreover, they are justified (1344 /dikaióō, "made right, righteous") by God's grace each time they receive (obey) faith (4102 /pístis), i.e. "God's inwrought persuasion" (cf. the -oō ending which conveys "to bring to/out"). See 1343 (dikaiosynē).
dórea: a gift
Original Word: δωρεά, ᾶς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: dórea
Phonetic Spelling: (do-reh-ah')
Short Definition: a free gift
Definition: a (free) gift, a gift (without repayment).
1431 dōreá (a feminine noun, derived from 1325 /dídōmi) – a gift, freely given and hence not acquired by merit or "entitlement." 1431 /dōreá (a feminine noun) expresses a brand of giving that highlights the beneficent desire of the giver.
charis: grace, kindness
Original Word: χάρις, ιτος, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: charis
Phonetic Spelling: (khar'-ece)
Short Definition: grace, favor, kindness
Definition: (a) grace, as a gift or blessing brought to man by Jesus Christ, (b) favor, (c) gratitude, thanks, (d) a favor, kindness.
Cognate: 5485 xáris (another feminine noun from xar-, "favor, disposed to, inclined, favorable towards, leaning towards to share benefit") – properly, grace. 5485 (xáris) is preeminently used of the Lord's favor – freely extended to give Himself away to people (because He is "always leaning toward them").
5485 /xáris ("grace") answers directly to the Hebrew (OT) term 2580 /Kaná ("grace, extension-toward"). Both refer to God freely extending Himself (His favor, grace), reaching (inclining) to people because He is disposed to bless (be near) them.
[5485 (xáris) is sometimes rendered "thanks" but the core-idea is "favor, grace" ("extension towards").]
........
Ephesians 1
Praise for Spiritual Blessings in Christ
3Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves
To the praise of the glory of His grace
The ultimate aim of foreordained. Glory is an attribute of grace: that in which grace grandly and resplendently displays itself. Praise is called forth from the children of God by this divine glory which thus appears in grace. The grace is not merely favor, gift, but it reveals also the divine character. In praising God for what He does, we learn to praise Him for what He is.
The correct reading is ἧς which, referring to grace. The meaning is not endued us with grace, nor made us worthy of love, but, as Rev., grace - which he freely bestowed. Grace is an act of God, not a state into which He brings us.
Vincent
(9) The uttermost and chiefest final cause is the glory of God the Father, who saves us freely in his Son.
Geneva
6. (Eph 1:7, 17, 18). The end aimed at (Ps 50:23), that is, that the glory of His grace may be praised by all His creatures, men and angels.
JFBBC
................
I. He gives them the true character of those teachers who were industrious to seduce them, in several particulars. As,
1. They were men who desired to make a fair show in the flesh, v. 12. They were very zealous for the externals of religion, forward to observe, and to oblige others to observe, the rites of the ceremonial law, though at the same time they had little or no regard to real piety; for, as the apostle says of them in the following verse, neither do they themselves keep the law. Proud, vain, and carnal hearts desire nothing more than to make a fair show in the flesh, and they can easily be content with so much religion as will help them to keep up such a fair show; but frequently those have least of the substance of religion who are most solicitous to make a show of it.
2. They were men who were afraid of suffering, for they constrained the Gentile Christians to be circumcised, only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ. It was not so much out of a regard to the law as to themselves; they were willing to sleep in a whole skin, and to save their worldly cargo, and cared not though they made shipwreck of faith and a good conscience. That which they chiefly aimed at was to please the Jews, and to keep up their reputation among them, and so to prevent the trouble that Paul, and other faithful professors of the doctrine of Christ, lay open to. And,
3. Another part of their character was that they were men of a party spirit, and who had no further zeal for the law than as it subserved their carnal and selfish designs; for they desired to have these Christians circumcised, that they might glory in their flesh (v. 13), that they might say they had gained them over to their side, and made proselytes of them, of which they carried the mark in their flesh. And thus, while they pretended to promote religion, they were the greatest enemies of it; for nothing has been more destructive to the interest of religion than men-siding and party-making.
II. He acquaints us, on the other hand, with his own temper and behaviour, or makes profession of his own faith, hope, and joy; particularly,
1. That his principle glory was in the cross of Christ: God forbid, says he, that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, v. 14. By the cross of Christ is here meant his sufferings and death on the cross, or the doctrine of salvation by a crucified Redeemer.
This was what the Jews stumbled at and the Greeks accounted foolishness; and the judaizing teachers themselves, though they had embraced Christianity, yet were so far ashamed of it that in compliance with the Jews, and to avoid persecution from them, they were for mixing the observance of the law of Moses with faith in Christ, as necessary to salvation.
But Paul had a very different opinion of it; he was so far from being offended at the cross of Christ, or ashamed of it, or afraid to own it, that he gloried in it; yea, he desired to glory in nothing else, and rejected the thought of setting up anything in competition with it, as the object of his esteem, with the utmost abhorrence; God forbid, etc.
Matthew Henry
You are missing something, so I will endorse these scriptures to help. Jesus said to the Pharisees Luke 6:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Then said Jesus unto them, I will ask you one thing; Is it lawful on the Sabbath days to do good, or to do evil? to save life, or to destroy it?
John 7:20-24 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP]The people answered and said, Thou hast a devil: who goeth about to kill thee?
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said unto them, I have done one work, and ye all marvel.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers
and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
Mark 2:27-28 (KJV)
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
Is it wrong to keep the Sabbath according to the original law, or according to the distorted view such as the Pharisees had. There is a difference, and there is very good reason Jesus condemned their actions at the same time Jesus endorsed keeping the Sabbath properly.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Then said Jesus unto them, I will ask you one thing; Is it lawful on the Sabbath days to do good, or to do evil? to save life, or to destroy it?
John 7:20-24 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP]The people answered and said, Thou hast a devil: who goeth about to kill thee?
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said unto them, I have done one work, and ye all marvel.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers
and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man. [SUP]23 [/SUP]If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
Mark 2:27-28 (KJV)
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
Is it wrong to keep the Sabbath according to the original law, or according to the distorted view such as the Pharisees had. There is a difference, and there is very good reason Jesus condemned their actions at the same time Jesus endorsed keeping the Sabbath properly.
The world will continue to work it seems.
No one in my immediate family observes Sabbath day.
on Sunday i may go to the shop and buy bread baked on the Saturday.
All that is within my free will
i can choose to rest Sabbath never losing sight that it is lawful to do good.
for me any paid work is a no, no, though the company i work for may trade through Sabbath.
My free will is to say no to paid work or doing any heavy house hold work.
i enjoy Sabbath day and do not fear picking up my bed or making it.
The less i do the more Rest indeed.
That is my Liberty in the Messiah.
Love GOD and Keep His Commandments.
No one in my immediate family observes Sabbath day.
on Sunday i may go to the shop and buy bread baked on the Saturday.
All that is within my free will
i can choose to rest Sabbath never losing sight that it is lawful to do good.
for me any paid work is a no, no, though the company i work for may trade through Sabbath.
My free will is to say no to paid work or doing any heavy house hold work.
i enjoy Sabbath day and do not fear picking up my bed or making it.
The less i do the more Rest indeed.
That is my Liberty in the Messiah.
Love GOD and Keep His Commandments.
E
Which is exactly what Christ meant when he said the pharisees were good when they did these things, But messed up because they should also have been doing those things.
Following law cause us to be hardened to our own sin, because
1. we have to admit we can not keep it. and thus need Christ.
2. We have to hide the sin we have from ourselves and others so we can prove we have kept it good enough to save ourselves.
Following law cause us to be hardened to our own sin, because
1. we have to admit we can not keep it. and thus need Christ.
2. We have to hide the sin we have from ourselves and others so we can prove we have kept it good enough to save ourselves.
You are missing something, so I will endorse these scriptures to help. Jesus said to the Pharisees Luke 6:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Then said Jesus unto them, I will ask you one thing; Is it lawful on the Sabbath days to do good, or to do evil? to save life, or to destroy it?
John 7:20-24 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP]The people answered and said, Thou hast a devil: who goeth about to kill thee?
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said unto them, I have done one work, and ye all marvel.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
Mark 2:27-28 (KJV)
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
Is it wrong to keep the Sabbath according to the original law, or according to the distorted view such as the Pharisees had. There is a difference, and there is very good reason Jesus condemned their actions at the same time Jesus endorsed keeping the Sabbath properly.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Then said Jesus unto them, I will ask you one thing; Is it lawful on the Sabbath days to do good, or to do evil? to save life, or to destroy it?
John 7:20-24 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP]The people answered and said, Thou hast a devil: who goeth about to kill thee?
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said unto them, I have done one work, and ye all marvel.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers
and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man. [SUP]23 [/SUP]If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
Mark 2:27-28 (KJV)
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
Is it wrong to keep the Sabbath according to the original law, or according to the distorted view such as the Pharisees had. There is a difference, and there is very good reason Jesus condemned their actions at the same time Jesus endorsed keeping the Sabbath properly.
E
They demand you follow something.
yet make excuses when it shows they themselves do not follow it.
We are not talking about the distorted version, like just-me tried to say. But the literal version.
A day of rest. Do not eat or prepare food. Do not labor (work)
It is one thing if you are starving and need food so you do not get sick. or someone is sick and needs help.
As we all know. You are not talking of these things!
yet make excuses when it shows they themselves do not follow it.
We are not talking about the distorted version, like just-me tried to say. But the literal version.
A day of rest. Do not eat or prepare food. Do not labor (work)
It is one thing if you are starving and need food so you do not get sick. or someone is sick and needs help.
As we all know. You are not talking of these things!
I think these discussions are at a point where Sabbath-keepers are being asked to defend the actions and motivations of hypothetical people in hypothetical situations. As I mentioned a couple of days ago, I can only speak for myself. So from this point forward (at least in this thread for now), I'm not going to attempt to defend and argue for people I don't even know, especially in broad, general terms. If anyone has legitimate gripes, concerns or issues with how I as a Torah-follower and Sabbath Keeper go about it, please feel free to let me know.
E
Well you were asked that question. Do you have an answer? We all know you can;t speak for them.
And I applaud your sincerity.
by the way, When I say "they" I speak of people doing it. Unless your doing it, this would not mean you. so I hope if you do follow ALL the things said, you do not think I was speaking of you.
the problem is everyone gets offended.. Even when they are not even being spoke of. that leads to disaster in discussions. as we see here all the time.
And I applaud your sincerity.
by the way, When I say "they" I speak of people doing it. Unless your doing it, this would not mean you. so I hope if you do follow ALL the things said, you do not think I was speaking of you.
the problem is everyone gets offended.. Even when they are not even being spoke of. that leads to disaster in discussions. as we see here all the time.
lol.. They are? where does it say this? In some jewish book? It certainly does not say this in Gods book?
I think your trying to confuse us
I think your trying to confuse us
So when Paul speaks against the law, He is speaking against the Pharisees use of it to change the Gentiles stance before God. That is a function of the law that God never intended.
And this context, in my mind at least, perfectly explains why Paul kept the Torah, and why Jesus said,
Matthew 5:17-19 "“Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoeverkeeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
People often debate about what "fulfill" means. But rarely do I see people go beyond vs. 17 and look out the window to see if the heaven and earth are there. Are they still there? Then not even the smallest letter of the Torah is gone. And it doesn't make sense to me that if the Law was done away with, or ended, or finished, or whatever synonym we want to make "fulfill" mean, that Jesus would say 2 verses later that the people who do and teach that law will be considered great in the kingdom of heaven.
OK, for real. I'm off to work now!
Have a great day folks!
Matt
Wow now I am confused. LOL
We need Christ Jesus, and our wants don't matter. Thinking of a scripture even soMatthew 6:28-33 (KJV)
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:
[SUP]29 [/SUP]And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?
[SUP]31 [/SUP]Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
[SUP]32 [/SUP](For after all these things do the Gentiles seek for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Wow now I am confused. LOL We need Christ Jesus, and our wants don't matter. Thinking of a scripture even so
Matthew 6:28-33 (KJV)
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:
[SUP]29 [/SUP]And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?
[SUP]31 [/SUP]Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
[SUP]32 [/SUP](For after all these things do the Gentiles seek for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
We need Christ Jesus, and our wants don't matter. Thinking of a scripture even soMatthew 6:28-33 (KJV)
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:
[SUP]29 [/SUP]And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?
[SUP]31 [/SUP]Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
[SUP]32 [/SUP](For after all these things do the Gentiles seek for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
E
yes we agree!
we disagree. The pharisees used the law to think they were right before God. thus they did not need an eternal redeemer, they already had eternity with God given, THEY EARNED IT BY THE LAW!
1. we agree. Jesus fullfilled the law. The moral, sacrifical and judgmental were fulfilled completely in jesus.
2. We agree, Moral sin is sin, and should not be taken lightly.
3. I hope we agree, that God is fulfilling them in our lives every day, and will until this earth passes away.
I think where we may differ (not sure about you. But I KNOW OTHERS AND I DO) is that these things are required to be saved. Where as I believe those who are truly born again WILL do his commands and teach them. Those who are not saved, but impostors, will not (or will not teach them the correct way, as in legalism)
I do not think you understand what most of us are saying here.