Is the Hebrew Roots Movement a cult?
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Galatians 3
Faith and Belief
7 Know you therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel to Abraham, saying, In you shall all nations be blessed. 9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham
15Brethren, I speak in terms of human relations: even though it is only a man’s covenant, yet when it has been ratified, no one sets it aside or adds conditions to it.16 Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed.
He does not say, “And to seeds,” as referring to many, but rather to one, “And to your seed,” that is, Christ.
17 What I am saying is this: the Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise.
18 For if the inheritance is based on law, it is no longer based on a promise; but God has granted it to Abraham by means of a promise.
WHOSE INHERITANCE IS IT?
WHAT IS THE INHERITANCE?
Faith and Belief
7 Know you therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel to Abraham, saying, In you shall all nations be blessed. 9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham
15Brethren, I speak in terms of human relations: even though it is only a man’s covenant, yet when it has been ratified, no one sets it aside or adds conditions to it.16 Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed.
He does not say, “And to seeds,” as referring to many, but rather to one, “And to your seed,” that is, Christ.
17 What I am saying is this: the Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise.
18 For if the inheritance is based on law, it is no longer based on a promise; but God has granted it to Abraham by means of a promise.
WHOSE INHERITANCE IS IT?
WHAT IS THE INHERITANCE?
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Well you are getting warmer...
However...
If Israels salvation wasn't founded on obedience to the Law then why the sacrifices and the blood to atone for their very soul for breaking Gods Law?
Why not just believe that they were already saved at Passover and the blood of that lamb covered them forever?
However...
If Israels salvation wasn't founded on obedience to the Law then why the sacrifices and the blood to atone for their very soul for breaking Gods Law?
Why not just believe that they were already saved at Passover and the blood of that lamb covered them forever?
Your statement that says, "I think where we may differ (not sure about you. But I KNOW OTHERS AND I DO) is that these things are required to be saved" Which post clarifies your statement if it is on this thread. If not disregard, just wanted to read it. List the numbers of the posts so I can read all that say this, as I am looking for enlightenment. I am just trying to learn.
If I may, I believe that now we have a High Priest that lives forever. (Christ Jesus) He is not only the High Priest, He is also the sacrifice made. Because He lives forever, His sacrifice is final, and no other sacrifices are needed accept through Him.
We are to follow suite, in Truth, and Spirit. That's what I think.
Romans 12:1-3 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
We are to follow suite, in Truth, and Spirit. That's what I think.
Romans 12:1-3 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
John 17:24 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
Ephesians 1:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
1 Peter 1:18-23 (KJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
[SUP]19 [/SUP]But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
Ephesians 1:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
1 Peter 1:18-23 (KJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
[SUP]19 [/SUP]But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
E
So then you believe eternal life is eternal? And life after we are born again is a a continual life of learning and trusting God. That those who are his WILL show a changed life. WILL be the ones who follow God. and WILL be the ones who show works.
unlike those who think that even after we are saved, we can fail to meet some standard, and lose this life we have with christ?
unlike those who think that even after we are saved, we can fail to meet some standard, and lose this life we have with christ?
This thread has gone beyond talking of obedience to the law for salvation. It was decided long ago in the thread that the movement and no one believes that. The discussion is whether they may do anything in worship that could be labeled rituals. NOW the people against any of these worship practices are discussing the rituals they are doing!!
Is it that you are now deciding that the people of God may worship in this way but you would like to tell them how to do it? If your point is against rituals, how is it that you now want to discuss rituals?
Is it that you are now deciding that the people of God may worship in this way but you would like to tell them how to do it? If your point is against rituals, how is it that you now want to discuss rituals?
I was about to show you something but it will have to wait. You already know it but some here don't. I'm convinced of it.
Its the problem of agreeing with a Judaizer. You want them so much to see, but they don't. They are just trying to agree to draw you into their leaven. The leaven of works. I fast twice in the week, I thank you that I am not like that sinner, etc...
Well, I have to go to work. LOL If you knew what I did before I was saved and then saw what I do now you would laugh and laugh and laugh... The Lord is amazing and has blessed me more than I could ask or think...
Its the problem of agreeing with a Judaizer. You want them so much to see, but they don't. They are just trying to agree to draw you into their leaven. The leaven of works. I fast twice in the week, I thank you that I am not like that sinner, etc...
Well, I have to go to work. LOL If you knew what I did before I was saved and then saw what I do now you would laugh and laugh and laugh... The Lord is amazing and has blessed me more than I could ask or think...
Did the Lord tell us that He would supply all our wants or did He say He would supply all of our needs? And is it from God's definition of our needs or is it our definition of what we think are needs? Where did Jesus say we would have all the comforts of this life? See when Jesus we are not to worry about our needs,those are the things that are needed to sustain life. We are never promised all of the goodies.
What in the world??? What does that really have to do with why the Israelites made sacrifice? Who said they were saved? The first born died if they didn't have the blood. What's your point? Why do you say "You can run but you can't hide", if I'm not hiding? WOW, I think you might think that I believe different from you, and if that be the case, why isn't it defined? How would you describe my Spiritual walk? just curious. And if you don't know, why don't you ask?
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I see how we got here. This is what started it.
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And that is where we are at at the moment. (Does it make sense?) It started with the question if someone was saying they observed the Sabbath just as it was stated in the Mosaic law,if one uses electricity does that cause another to sin.
(Is that as clear as mud now) If I work hard enough at it I can even confuse myself.
Your reply
You are missing something, so I will endorse these scriptures to help. Jesus said to the Pharisees Luke 6:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Then said Jesus unto them, I will ask you one thing; Is it lawful on the Sabbath days to do good, or to do evil? to save life, or to destroy it?
John 7:20-24 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP]The people answered and said, Thou hast a devil: who goeth about to kill thee?
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said unto them, I have done one work, and ye all marvel.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
Mark 2:27-28 (KJV)
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
Is it wrong to keep the Sabbath according to the original law, or according to the distorted view such as the Pharisees had. There is a difference, and there is very good reason Jesus condemned their actions at the same time Jesus endorsed keeping the Sabbath properly.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Then said Jesus unto them, I will ask you one thing; Is it lawful on the Sabbath days to do good, or to do evil? to save life, or to destroy it?
John 7:20-24 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP]The people answered and said, Thou hast a devil: who goeth about to kill thee?
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said unto them, I have done one work, and ye all marvel.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers
and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man. [SUP]23 [/SUP]If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
Mark 2:27-28 (KJV)
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
Is it wrong to keep the Sabbath according to the original law, or according to the distorted view such as the Pharisees had. There is a difference, and there is very good reason Jesus condemned their actions at the same time Jesus endorsed keeping the Sabbath properly.
My reply
Your reply
Wow now I am confused. LOL We need Christ Jesus, and our wants don't matter. Thinking of a scripture even so
Matthew 6:28-33 (KJV)
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:
[SUP]29 [/SUP]And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?
[SUP]31 [/SUP]Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
[SUP]32 [/SUP](For after all these things do the Gentiles seek for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
We need Christ Jesus, and our wants don't matter. Thinking of a scripture even soMatthew 6:28-33 (KJV)
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:
[SUP]29 [/SUP]And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?
[SUP]31 [/SUP]Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
[SUP]32 [/SUP](For after all these things do the Gentiles seek for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Your reply
And that is where we are at at the moment. (Does it make sense?) It started with the question if someone was saying they observed the Sabbath just as it was stated in the Mosaic law,if one uses electricity does that cause another to sin.
(Is that as clear as mud now) If I work hard enough at it I can even confuse myself.
It's the law thing sis, no one can even mention it without others, not all, assuming that we are advocating being under the law. All we are trying to say is that the law has it's place, otherwise it wouldn't exist. God has preserved it for good reason. I think ALL of us would agree that the law doesn't justify anyone by keeping it in the flesh. Where the problem comes is that the first thing that pops into peoples minds is that the law is carnal only. All we are saying is the same thing Paul said, and that is the law is Spiritual, just, and good. It should be considered as God intended from the very beginning. THE LAW, AND THE WORKS THEREOF DOES NOT MAKE US JUSTIFIED IN THE SIGHT OF GOD! ONLY THE BLOOD SACRIFICE OF THE LAMB THAT LIVES FOREVER! What's so hard to understand about that just because we see the law as it was intended.
Romans 7:12-14 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Romans 7:12-14 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.