Is the Jewish God and gentile God the same?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

jaybird88

Senior Member
Jan 7, 2015
5,251
421
83
#41
The law was given for one purpose.

Those that would rather worship law than worship God can't see it.

That one purpose was so that you would know that you need a Saviour. From Condemnation and Death.

Once you have come to The Saviour and received Salvation you know where your help is. You don't need a law to condemn you to death to know who your Saviour is. You don't need to continue in that condemnation and death in order to please God.

Condemnation and Death is not pleasing to God. But it seems to be the only way the stiff-necked people learn. And even then they still manage to resist the Holy Spirit. Why???

Matthew 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
the Most High gave the law so people would have a different god to worship? never heard that one before.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
1,354
167
63
#42
God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
9,328
1,653
113
#43
the Most High gave the law so people would have a different god to worship? never heard that one before.
I don't have any idea what you are saying here or how you may have gotten that idea from what I posted.

You must be connecting something together that I don't understand.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
9,328
1,653
113
#44
Abraham and Noah and others found favor with God through faith. That is the same thing as Grace, is it not?
There are lots of examples of Gods Grace in the OT.

I'm just not aware of any scriptures that expressly say that Salvation is by Grace in the OT.
 

Macabeus

Well-known member
Dec 27, 2018
3,332
778
113
#45
There are lots of examples of Gods Grace in the OT.

I'm just not aware of any scriptures that expressly say that Salvation is by Grace in the OT.
I'm not trying to be contrary to you, but "Abraham believed God and it was counted unto him for righteousness" is a basis for justification by faith. But no, there are no passages that say "saved by Grace", but if forgiveness, justification, etc are by faith, that would be Grace.
 

Macabeus

Well-known member
Dec 27, 2018
3,332
778
113
#46
You know what cracks me up about Christians... they have this belief that G-d some how was "evil" in the OT then "got saved" in the NT... and it's "love, puppy-dogs, and roses"... Yet it's the NT... After Messiah came people GO TO HELL FOR ETERNITY!!! THAT IS RUTHLESS!!! OR MAYBE ALL 66 BOOKS OF THE BIBLE ARE THE INFALLABLE/ ENERRENT WORD OF G-D!?!....
There is plenty of judgement and warning in the New Testament to be sure, but the rest of your post is an immense strawman.
Jesus poured out His BLOOD to fulfill the Law. If anything, God is infinitely good and benevelent to save ANY of us wretched sinners, and would be perfectly justified to send us ALL TO HELL with no chance at redemption. Who would even think that God would be evil to punish sinners.

Jesus took the punishment due sinners.
 

MattforJesus

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
1,997
308
83
#47
Christ told us they were the same, although it wasn’t until Paul was assigned as the gentile apostle that God was accepted as God of all men.

Today many think the OT did not portray God accurately but Christ changed God. They use the word fulfilled to justify that. I believe the word fulfilled in bible meaning tells us that Christ was from the beginning, Christ was explained all through the OT, and Christ as He acted in our kind of time did, or fulfilled, all that was told of Him.

An example of the change often taught was grace as of the NT, law of the OT. Yet even Abraham shows us God's grace, as Abraham's faith was accounted as righteousness. The blessings given at the covenant at Mt. Sinai never included salvation, that was only by grace.

There was a group of people told of in Acts who believed God was eternal, the same always. They believed as I do that the OT often gives us a more complete picture of what the NT teaches, but there is never a disagreement between the two.

Acts 17: 11 the Bereans were more noble-minded than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if these teachings were true. 12As a result, many of them believed, along with quite a few prominent Greek women and men.…
The God of the Old Testament is the same as the God of the New Testament, and the God of the Jews is the God of the Gentiles whether Old Testament or New Testament.

The only difference is Israel had the advantage over the Gentiles for the word of God was given to them.

And God worked with Israel for she was His chosen nation, and the headquarters of the world, which is why a Gentile when saved is part of the commonwealth of Israel, and Jerusalem the mother of us all, and the new earth called the New Jerusalem, which the 12 tribes of Israel, and the 12 apostles of the Lamb are written in the New Jerusalem, and Jesus said salvation is of the Jews.

As far as judgment God would judge right on earth in the Old Testament, and would fight for Israel against her enemies, where in the New Testament God does not do that for we are under grace, but judgment is still against all people who reject the truth to be given in the future, and God will fight for Israel in the future, and it is going on now for God will still fight for Israel like He said like birds flying He will take back Jerusalem, which is fighter pilots, jets, in the 6th day war, 1967, when Israel won the war and took control of Jerusalem, but will fight for Israel against all her enemies in the future which is the whole world, for the whole earth shall be gathered together against her.

So as far as judgment it is upon all rebellious whether Old or New, but in the New we are under grace, but God still fights for Israel which will come out more and more as the time approaches to the battle of Armageddon.

And salvation was still offered to the Gentiles in the Old, and they could receive it, for God said to Israel to treat the stranger as one of her own, and if they took hold of God's covenant they too would have salvation, as well as any Gentile of the other nations if they took hold of that covenant, although it would be not heard of by many of the world.

But then the Bible says that creation testifies that there is a God who created all things, and of His attributes, which one of them is love, for He provided food, and the means to make clothing, and shelter, so the world is without excuse, which if the Gentile that knew not the word of God in the Old, and His covenant, salvation was still available to them if they believed in a higher power, and loved people to the best of their ability, for love is the fulfilling of the law, and asked God to forgive them if anything was amiss.

For we know of Noah before Israel came about, and of Job before Israel came about, and others before Israel came about that had salvation, and of king Nebuchadnezzar who acknowledged the God of Israel for He is the greatest God of all the gods, and proclaimed throughout his kingdom to acknowledge the God of Israel, and if anyone said anything against Him they would be cut in pieces, and their house made a dunghill, which is why Babylon during his reign is referred to as gold, and rode on eagle's wings, and the best Gentile kingdom on earth at any time period, but when the king died the son blew it, and the kingdom was stripped from them and given to the Medes and Persians.

Had Babylon kept acknowledging the God of Israel she would still be the operating kingdom today.

So Gentiles could have salvation in the Old the same as the Jew, and many acknowledged the God of Israel, although the Jew had the advantage over them, and many did not know of her covenant, but by creation, and their conscience, could be right with God to be saved.

I do not look at a difference of God between the Old and New for salvation was still given to all whether Jew or Gentile, and God will judge all rebellious people who do not accept the truth whether Old or New, but it was on earth in the Old, where it is postponed because we are under grace, but judgment is still coming upon them.

But in the Old God speaks of His mercy endures forever, and His everlasting love for people, and He is tender hearted, and cares for people, and does not take pleasure in the death of the wicked, and His love for people, the same as the New.

There is no difference for His love was for all, and the same love whether Old and New, but Jesus brought it out for spiritual salvation to have a spiritual relationship with God opposed to a physical covenant with Him, but that love was the same in the Old.

I do not look at God any different whether Old or New, and His love the same whether Old or New, and salvation for Jew and Gentile whether Old or New, but in the Old it was physical blessings, where in the New Testament it is spiritual blessings.

Jesus did not bring out a new God for He has always been love whether Jew or Gentile, and the same love, but Jesus brought out that this God of love that has been in the Old Testament is now offering spiritual salvation instead of physical salvation, spiritual blessings instead of physical blessings, and eternal life prosperity in heaven, instead of prosperity on earth.

For God said I am the LORD, I change not, and Jesus is the same today, yesterday, and forever.

Why would people think the God of the Old would be different, and work different in the Old, than in the New, for He is the same.

Just because God judged on earth, and fought for Israel in the Old, does not mean He is different, for judgment is still upon all rebellious, and God fights for the saints but in a spiritual sense now to keep the enemy Satan away, and from spiritual deception, and will give them an escape from persecution like Jesus that would escape it for His time had not come yet, but God does not go against the heathen physically like in the Old, but they still will not escape judgment.

For whether judgment on earth for the Old, or judgment in the future for the New, they are still judged.

For that is the big reason people say that God behaves different in the Old than the New, for God judged on earth, and fought for Israel in the Old, but judgment is still upon the rebellious in the New, but we are under grace so God will not bring it out until the future.

But even in the Old Testament the Jews complained that those that did not love God prospered, and had no trouble, and their children had no trouble, because it was the same as the New, but God had to protect Israel for Jesus was coming through them so they would not be wiped out, and had to put down kingdoms when they spread their falsehood too far, and were cruel to hurt people.

And God said He winked at the ignorance of the heathen in the Old, but now commands them to repent, and for the most part left the Gentiles alone, unless they messed with Israel, or they were too cruel, and perverting the truth among the people where it had a big influence upon many people.

So God put down a 1000 to save 10,000, and if God had not intervened in the Old more people would of been hurt, and killed, and more people would of been void of the truth of God, and salvation.

So how is God a different God in the Old than in the New.

If a boy was walking in the park with his dad, and a man ran up with a knife to stab him, and his dad put him down, would the boy say, dad you are cruel, or would he thank his dad for saving his life.

So why would they think that God would be different in the Old when God only did it for the benefit of people, so less people would be physically hurt, or killed, and more people could see the truth of God, and His ways.

For they say He was a war monger in the Old, but they do not know the truth, for God did it for the people, and in the New God said, He does not correct us like fathers will correct their children for the pleasure of the parents, but He corrects us for our profit.

He was not a war monger in the Old but did it for the benefit of people, like He does it for the benefit of the people in the New.
 

jaybird88

Senior Member
Jan 7, 2015
5,251
421
83
#50
the Pharisees who rejected Jesus were basically guilty of worshipping law instead of God
the pharisees didnt follow law like Jesus, they taught the law. they rejected Jesus because He straight up told them they were sons of the devil.
they were corrupt slimeballs handpicked by king Herod, do those really sound like the ones that embrace and follow Jesus, think about it.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
6,905
2,696
113
#53
on the mount of transfiguration , God the Father came down, and in the presence of Moses ( the Law ) and Elijah ( the prophets ) and said of the Son ' hear Him!'.

this elevates and separates the words in red over all other Scripture.

if folks understood this, then all the fighting over O.T. vs. N. T. would stop.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
9,328
1,653
113
#54
I'm not trying to be contrary to you, but "Abraham believed God and it was counted unto him for righteousness" is a basis for justification by faith. But no, there are no passages that say "saved by Grace", but if forgiveness, justification, etc are by faith, that would be Grace.
Yes, I agree with you.

I even tried to connect pretty much the same dots.

But I guess it wasn't good enough.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
9,328
1,653
113
#55
i got it from this:
So you think I was saying that everyone worships the law?

And you think I was saying that was Gods intent?

Nothing could be further from my intent.
 
Dec 19, 2018
3
0
1
#56
Christ told us they were the same, although it wasn’t until Paul was assigned as the gentile apostle that God was accepted as God of all men.

Today many think the OT did not portray God accurately but Christ changed God. They use the word fulfilled to justify that. I believe the word fulfilled in bible meaning tells us that Christ was from the beginning, Christ was explained all through the OT, and Christ as He acted in our kind of time did, or fulfilled, all that was told of Him.

An example of the change often taught was grace as of the NT, law of the OT. Yet even Abraham shows us God's grace, as Abraham's faith was accounted as righteousness. The blessings given at the covenant at Mt. Sinai never included salvation, that was only by grace.

There was a group of people told of in Acts who believed God was eternal, the same always. They believed as I do that the OT often gives us a more complete picture of what the NT teaches, but there is never a disagreement between the two.

Acts 17: 11 the Bereans were more noble-minded than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if these teachings were true. 12As a result, many of them believed, along with quite a few prominent Greek women and men.…


Their only few scriptures that enlighten us that God is the same. One scripture come to mind is

Romans 2:10

“But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:”

He always spoke to Jews first, than he used men like Paul to speak his words to Greeks(gentile)
 

Macabeus

Well-known member
Dec 27, 2018
3,332
778
113
#57
the pharisees didnt follow law like Jesus, they taught the law. they rejected Jesus because He straight up told them they were sons of the devil.
they were corrupt slimeballs handpicked by king Herod, do those really sound like the ones that embrace and follow Jesus, think about it.
Paul was a Pharisee before he got saved, and said he was blameless according to the righteousness that comes by the law. Philippians 3:6
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
3,389
1,338
113
#58
Actually...I might disagree that it wasnt until Paul that the gentiles accepted God.
Before Paul got converted by Jesus, many gentiles were already following Jesus. The samaritan woman, the centurion, cornelius, to name a few.
And going back into the OT, you see Ruth, a moabitess, declaring shes going to follow God, and Rahab a prostitute whod heard about the God of the Israelites how He parted the Red sea for them. She asked for all her household to be saved and they did. The Queen of Sheba was so impressed by Solomons Kingdom she paid him tribute and honored God.
King nebuchadeezzar and was it King Darius were humbled in the book of Daniel by God. So many people outside of Israel and Judah actually did accept God. The Ninevites repented and God did not destroy them.

When Jesus was a baby two prophets that were waiting for the messiah to come already declared Jesus would be a light to the Gentiles. GOds plan from the beginning was to redeem all mankind, he just chose Israel and the jews first to make that happen through Jesus.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
1,595
425
83
#60
The law was given for one purpose.

Those that would rather worship law than worship God can't see it.

That one purpose was so that you would know that you need a Saviour. From Condemnation and Death.

Once you have come to The Saviour and received Salvation you know where your help is. You don't need a law to condemn you to death to know who your Saviour is. You don't need to continue in that condemnation and death in order to please God.

Condemnation and Death is not pleasing to God. But it seems to be the only way the stiff-necked people learn. And even then they still manage to resist the Holy Spirit. Why???

Matthew 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
There is much in scripture about law, and you come up with the idea to scratch it all for one verse that you say captures everything in scripture about law. There may be people who think you are knowledgeable.

We are told the law is holy, you are trying to take what is Holy and is of God and saying it is all trash and the entire structure of the world as the law is, every bit of it is bondage and a yoke.

In Galatians and Romans it is explained:

Gal_2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
Gal_3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

Rom_6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Rom_6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

……...
Pe


I did not say dead or freed from the Law, Paul did

And you could not be more wrong about the greek word agape

Jesus said the Great commandment is to love God. Jesus said "this is my commandment that you love one another", Jesus said on love hangs all the Law and the prophets. John said that love is demonstrated by God giving His Son as a propitiation for our sins. John said love is demonstrated in Jesus laying down His life for us. James called love the royal law. Peter called love the bond of perfection. Paul said love abides forever. Love is in no way abstract, and it has everything to do with action

We are to be led by the Spirit. Paul said that before he was converted to Jesus, he was according to the righteousness of the Law blameless. Paul said he wanted to be found in Christ not having his own righteousness, which is by the Law, but having the righteousness which comes by faith in Christ.

Paul said that love is the fulfilling of the Law, because he who loves will not murder, lie, commit adultery, steal, etc. The Law is not for righteous, but for unrighteous. All of these things are in the bible IF you need book, chapter, or verse for any of them, let me know and I will provide it.