Is the right baptism necessary for salvation?

[Reformedjason]

Jesus said " baptize in the name of the father , son and holy spirit" peter said be baptized in jesus name. Why the confusion? The disciples were telling the people about christ and these peoplemay not have ever heard of him. Why did peter not say fathet, son and spirit? I don't know ask him when you get to heaven. He was putting emphasis on christ. Maybe he just wanted to keep it simple. I'm sure he did not want some pentecostal cult to grab and use this for a reason to not believe in the trinity. They always say it is a singular name, it is God is one in nature and 3 in person. Jesus is the name of the son

 

[Josh321]

Jesus said " baptize in the name of the father , son and holy spirit" peter said be baptized in jesus name. Why the confusion? The disciples were telling the people about christ and these peoplemay not have ever heard of him. Why did peter not say fathet, son and spirit? I don't know ask him when you get to heaven. He was putting emphasis on christ. Maybe he just wanted to keep it simple. I'm sure he did not want some pentecostal cult to grab and use this for a reason to not believe in the trinity. They always say it is a singular name, it is God is one in nature and 3 in person. Jesus is the name of the son

maybe you should ask yourself why he was saying to be baptized in Jesus name because if you notice Jesus was still on the earth when he gave that commandment and after he left was when the ministry had started so i think you really need to ask yourself that, but i know you won't accept it, i really wish you could stop thinking with human understanding on this matter, i'm sure you yourself have seen in the bible not one single person in the entire bible was baptized in father son holy spirit, why is that? brother jason remember... let everyman's word be a lie and mine truth

 

[Josh321]

it's not about what a denomination say it's about what God says, if it may help... i can show you in the name of the father the son and the holy spirit, do you see it is titles not names father is a title, son is a title, now if they are titles what is name then? why it's the Lord Jesus Christ, read it slowly and you might be able to see it God bless

 

[eternally-gratefull]

i don't get it though what is there to argue about, how much more clearer do you want it?

Acts 2:37-38

King James Version (KJV)

37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.



what is there to argue about... my goodness your letting your knowledge get in the way of what is being said... what shall we do? oh just repent and that's it, did he say that? no... repent and BE BAPTIZED, AND YE SHALL RECEIVE THE GIFT OF THE HOLY GHOST, 2 instructions were giving brother... not one, if baptism was not important he would've said just repent and that's it, now rememer peter had the keys, the Lord Jesus gave him the keys to the kingdom, so peter had to give the right and perfect perscription for the people to receive the holy spirit and join the kingdom, and what did he say when he was asked WHAT SHALL WE DO?38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, andbe baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

How about a flawed engish translation which does not fit the greek text.

You do understand not all english texts are a proper interpretation of the greek do you not?

And I am not arguing, I am just showing something which is true according to the origional greek text.

 

[Josh321]

How about a flawed engish translation which does not fit the greek text.

You do understand not all english texts are a proper interpretation of the greek do you not?

And I am not arguing, I am just showing something which is true according to the origional greek text.

lol really brother eg, i love you man but i can't agree with you on this one i can only agree with what the word says and that is what it says, and you really think if it was flawed God would allow it to be that way? this is a major thing, peter has the keys to the kingdom and he is being asked what shall we do, then he goes on to say repent and be baptized now that is a major thing brother, maybe you can think about it that way but they have many examples of this brother is everysingle example flawed?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

lol really brother eg, i love you man but i can't agree with you on this one i can only agree with what the word says and that is what it says, and you really think if it was flawed God would allow it to be that way? this is a major thing, peter has the keys to the kingdom and he is being asked what shall we do, then he goes on to say repent and be baptized now that is a major thing brother, maybe you can think about it that way but they have many examples of this brother is everysingle example flawed?

Sorry my friend.

God inspired the origionals. He did not inspire the translations. thats why we have so many, and why many say different things.

Thats also why he kept the origionals intact.

The laws of language does not allow for the translation you are using to be correct.

As I said early. Using the interpretation in the order of the english.

It would be translated. "And Peter said the them, Let each of you repent (2nd person plural), And let he or she be baptized (3rd person singular), And he or she recieves remission of sin (3rd person singular), and you (all) recieve the gift of the HS (2nd person plural)

it does not fit.


A second person and third person word can not be unified. This is just basic laws of language.
I can not force you to believe and see what I see,. But I must take what the origional language says, over any translated word written by men, not inspired by God.

 

[dcontroversal]

Sorry my friend.

God inspired the origionals. He did not inspire the translations. thats why we have so many, and why many say different things.

Thats also why he kept the origionals intact.

The laws of language does not allow for the translation you are using to be correct.

As I said early. Using the interpretation in the order of the english.

It would be translated. "And Peter said the them, Let each of you repent (2nd person plural), And let he or she be baptized (3rd person singular), And he or she recieves remission of sin (3rd person singular), and you (all) recieve the gift of the HS (2nd person plural)

it does not fit.


A second person and third person word can not be unified. This is just basic laws of language.
I can not force you to believe and see what I see,. But I must take what the origional language says, over any translated word written by men, not inspired by God.

Amen and that is the truth........

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It is even seen in the old english bibles.

In old english, Ye was a plural form. while you was singular.

He told all of them (plural) to repent, and ye (plural) would recieve the gift of the HS. But only told you (singular) to be baptized) for (thus we need to interpret for. does it mean in order to recieve something, or because you have recieved something) the remmision of sin (singular)

it can not be seen in the modern translations. because you can be both singular or plural. and we have no idea which one is used without going to the origional text.

 

[phil112]

................... He did not inspire the translations. thats why we have so many, and why many say different things................................

I see. So you are telling me that He expected us in the year 2000AD to learn greek if we really wanted to know the correct wording? Do you have any idea how that sounds? God looked out for everybody but us in latter years? He threw us to the mercy of anyone that wanted to deceive us? That is malarky.

With few exceptions, the KJV is a very solid translation. From a doctrinal standpoint it is perfect, and you will never convince me otherwise.

Are there misleading translations? Of course, but to believe God wasn't looking out for us is to believe He didn't care about us going to heaven, and that would be calling Him a liar.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I see. So you are telling me that He expected us in the year 2000AD to learn greek if we really wanted to know the correct wording? Do you have any idea how that sounds? God looked out for everybody but us in latter years? He threw us to the mercy of anyone that wanted to deceive us? That is malarky.

With few exceptions, the KJV is a very solid translation. From a doctrinal standpoint it is perfect, and you will never convince me otherwise.

Are there misleading translations? Of course, but to believe God wasn't looking out for us is to believe He didn't care about us going to heaven, and that would be calling Him a liar.

Why do you think he gave us pastors and teachers and other spiritual leaders, with the ability to do this for us.

As I already showed. Even the KJV shows a difference between singular and plural. So even they saw a difference in the verbs and subjects.. so even with that translation. my interpretation still stands.

Peter spoke to all of them. If he wanted to tell them to repent and be baptized for the remission of sin, and you would recieve the gift of the HS. He would have kept all objects and verbs second person plural. He did not thus we have to translat correctly. Which the KJV writers attempted. And the modern day translations miss out because of the failure of modern english to differentiate between 2nd and third person pronoun you.

The ASV (old english version of the NASB) is even better.

it says repent ye (plural) and let every one of you (singular)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The focus in the greek, and the Old english versions is this.

Peter is telling everyone (plural) to repent, and they will receive the gift of the HS.

Yet he is only telling individuals (not everyone) to be baptized due to remission of sin.

there is no getting out of this in the greek, or old english text.

 

[phil112]

Why do you think he gave us pastors and teachers and other spiritual leaders, with the ability to do this for us...................................
it says repent ye (plural) and let every one of you (singular)

You think we should depend on another person to interpret the bible for us? We are to believe someones word, but not their written translation? You need help, my friend. That is not a lucid conclusion to draw. Catholics also value oral tradition over written tradition. Even your version of the bible tells you different than that.
You are starting to sound like a legalist. I don't care if someone is standing next to me or not. Clearly He's talking to me. If the guy next to me wants to take issue because the translator said you and not ye he is nitpicking himself to hell.

I have to tell you, you were doing better when you were doing the copy and paste thing from Paton's writings.

 

[UriahSmith1844]

BAPTISM BY IMMERSION

There was a reason why Jesus, when baptised by John, was immersed into the water and then when He came back up out of the water the Dove came upon Him and God said, "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased". And Jesus said that He was going to be baptised in that manner "to fulfil all righteousness". It was because true Baptism is symbolic of the fact that we as Followers of Christ are to have our "old man of sin (transgressors of the Law of God) buried with Christ.

We are to be buried, with out old sinful ways into the watery grave, then to come out a new creature, walking in the Spirit. When you walk in the Spirit, you no longer fulfil the lusts of the flesh. The Bible says that the old "carnal mind" cannot keep the Law of God. But if you walk in the Spirit, then by faith, you obey the promptings of the Holy Spirit and you begin to live a new life. in Christ. This is all done by faith, through the power of the Holy Spirit. And that is why the Bible says, "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost. Titus 3:5

Now please read the passage here regarding true Baptism and what it symbolizes...

Romans Chapter 61 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You think we should depend on another person to interpret the bible for us? We are to believe someones word, but not their written translation?

1. It is not my translation, IT IS THE LAWS OF LANGUAGE.
2. You got mad at the greek (why I have no clue, maybe it is fear?) So I used an older language, In which the laws of the language say what I said, It is not my words.
3. No, You do not have to depend on me. Listen to know man. But test what they say to see whether it is true or not.

You need help, my friend. That is not a lucid conclusion to draw. Catholics also value oral tradition over written tradition. Even your version of the bible tells you different than that.

lol. ok. Whatever. Who said anything about oral traidition? I am translating a passage as written. In the origional, and in the old english. Is that not what we are supposed to do?

Oral tradition is ADDING to the word of God I am not doing this. So who has the problem?

You are starting to sound like a legalist

. I don't care if someone is standing next to me or not. Clearly He's talking to me. If the guy next to me wants to take issue because the translator said you and not ye he is nitpicking himself to hell.

A legalist says you can lose your salvation. I am not even talking about working for salvation or eternal life. I am actually against it. Do you even know what a legalist is? Your worrying me.

I have to tell you, you were doing better when you were doing the copy and paste thing from Paton's writings.

Is that who that was? I have had that and others things I got from another chatroom and various other sources on my computor for years. I could not get past the english translation of that verse (like the james issue) so finally started to ask questions. Someone showed me that and other stuff. And I tested them. I had no clue who wrote it.

And I am sorry. As I said you do not have to listen. You can ignore if you want.. But I would hope we would like to test all things.. I guess some of us do not

 

[Josh321]

But.... if anyone is seeking the holy spirit and has not receive it i will ask you the same thing paul ask the people that believe but that not receive the holy spirit, “Unto what then were ye baptized?” remember a doctor gives you the right perscription to cure a disease he doesn't give you cold medicine when you have migrains, it will never work do you see? so we really have to get the right perscription if we want the disease of sin to be cured, i pray that someone may notice this and want to seek the answers and are not wise as some others may be wise

 

[eternally-gratefull]

But.... if anyone is seeking the holy spirit and has not receive it i will ask you the same thing paul ask the people that believe but that not receive the holy spirit, “Unto what then were ye baptized?” remember a doctor gives you the right perscription to cure a disease he doesn't give you cold medicine when you have migrains, it will never work do you see? so we really have to get the right perscription if we want the disease of sin to be cured, i pray that someone may notice this and want to seek the answers and are not wise as some others may be wise

what is sad is you are condemning all OT people, and many others who had no access to hell because they wer enot baptised in water.

why can;t you see this?

Paul, Asking what baptism they had recieved, was asking them what Gospel they had placed their faith in.. Nothing more, nothing less

 

[GregoryC]

While thinking about this subject last night I was reminded of these passages.

Acts 11:14 who will tell you words by which you and all your household will be saved.’ 15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them, as upon us at the beginning. 16 Then I remembered the word of the Lord, how He said, ‘John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ 17 If therefore God gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?”18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, “Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life.”

 

[Josh321]

what is sad is you are condemning all OT people, and many others who had no access to hell because they wer enot baptised in water.

why can;t you see this?

Paul, Asking what baptism they had recieved, was asking them what Gospel they had placed their faith in.. Nothing more, nothing less

they were no New testament in the days of the old testament saves i don't get why you can't see this brother eg, they literally believed in Jesus but did not receive the holy spirit and immediately after that the very first first first.... thing paul asked was UNTO WHAT THEN WERE YE BAPTIZED? immediately after they said they had believe in Jesus Christ but did not receive the holy spirit, brother eg if baptism was not needed why on earth would paul even bring to them and ask them what baptism they were under and as they said John baptism and immediately paul said be baptized in Jesus Name and as they did that they receive the holy spirit, it's not about what me or you think it's about what the word says bro the eg they did not receive the holy spirit because they were under the wrong baptism THOSE ARE NOT MY WORDS the scripture proved it

[h=3]Acts 19:2-6[/h][h=3]King James Version (KJV)

2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

[/h]
can you see it, they believe with faith, but nothing happen no holy spirit, why? because they were under John's baptism which isn't the baptism for the new testament, as they were baptized in the baptism of the new testament THEN they receive the holy spirit as you clearly see right there in the scriptures

 

[Josh321]

While thinking about this subject last night I was reminded of these passages.

Acts 11:14 who will tell you words by which you and all your household will be saved.’ 15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them, as upon us at the beginning. 16 Then I remembered the word of the Lord, how He said, ‘John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ 17 If therefore God gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?”18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, “Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life.”

yes remember the holy spirit is the baptism of fire that and water for the remission of Sin, gentiles who were not baptized as yet receive the holy spirit first then they went and got baptized in Jesus name but with the difference with the other people who did beieve and didn't receive the holy spirit was they were already under another baptism other than the baptism of Jesus Christ

 

[Josh321]

i've heard many testimonies of people around the world, who receive the holy spirit but was not baptized yet, and they felt from within that they needed to be baptized in Jesus name, see that is the spirit leading right there