Is the right baptism necessary for salvation?

[endtimes]

lol. Ok. Keep thinking that.

Peter does not say what you think, the greek destroys your thought.

As for John, Again, Nicodemous would have no idea Jesus was talking about baptism. You have to make so many assumptions to take water to mean baptism,

Again, John 3: 16 Jesu told him how to be born again. He did not mention baptism. Your inserting a definition where it is not intended. or even insinuated.

Peter does say that, it is right there in black and white. And is cross referenced with what Jesus said.

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
[4] Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
[5] Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


Born again is of water and spirit, emphasize the word and. In fact, the book of Acts will cross reference this in chapter two...


[37] Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?


That is the million dollar question: What shall we do? Now let us find out what to do, to become Born Again...



[38]38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


Question: Why didn't Peter lead them through a sinner's prayer? Why didn't Peter say to accept Jesus as their personal saviour? Why didn't he say to simply "believe"? If there was ever a time to do all that, this certainly would have been it. Let's turn to the book of Matthew...


Matthew 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
[25] For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.


If we are to take up our cross and follow Jesus we would have to do what he did. We would have to symbolize his death, burial, and resurrection. And, that is exactly what Peter said to do.


1. Repent = symbolic death
2. Be water baptized = symbolic burial
3. Receive Holy Spirit = symbolic resurrection

Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

There was no delivery room in Jesus day, All birth is preceded by water breaking, Even nicdemous understood that to re-enter his mothers womb would mean he would have to re-enter the water.

Are you on record as now stating that Nicodemus must climb back into his mothers womb, literally?

What do you think that water might be, if it is Not embryonic fluid? It is water Baptism in Jesus name and that is what Peter said to do.

lol. ok wow, now your way out there. Keep believing this. Your tryign to earn your salvation. Not have God save you. Good luck with that.

And this, coming from someone whom has gone on a posting rampage across this thread as to admonish and teach a slew of us unlearned bumpkins that drool and walk into trees.

 

[Reformedjason]

predestination is true. just not the way calvanists say it is.

Hahaha. Yeah you know those calvinist

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Peter does say that, it is right there in black and white. And is cross referenced with what Jesus said.

Dude, I am not going to sit here and argue with you.

Scripture was not written in english The greek does not agree with what you say.

If you want to base your eternal life on a flawed english text. And work to earn your salvation feel free.

 

[phil112]

Context of that passage is a whole church, Not induviduals salvation. A huge difference.

Ludicrous! What is a church? You think Christ is going to remove a buildings' candlestick????

And when they were come, and had gathered the church together

You think this is a reference to gathering together a bunch of buildings?

 

[BradC]

Nice copy and paste Brad. You didn't answer.
I said nothing about past sins being charged against someone again.
Why are we warned not to sin? Why is that necessary for someone that is saved?
In the 12th chapter of Hebrews Paul said "let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us"...........What do you think happens if we don't? I mean we are permanently saved, why would Paul bother telling believers such a thing?
Again, in verses 24 & 25, Paul says "And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. ............See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven"
Why would he tell us not to refuse if it was something we couldn't do in the first place?

How much clearer does it have to be for you? Of course you can't refuse "God's very own act of imputing of my sin to His Son on the cross and do away with that imputation", but you can refuse to accept it. That is ludicrous to think that someone will be saved whether they want to or not. I gave my stepdaughter a car. Free. Nice car. She refused to drive it. Let it sit on the curb 'til it was towed a year later for out of state plates. Her aunt tried to get me to take it back. No, I said, it is hers to do as she wants with it, I gave it to her and it isn't mine to take back. That is exactly what God does for us. We will have to answer for it, much like the parable of the talents. The gift is given it is yours. Throw it away. Bury it. Waste it, but you will answer for what you did with it.Do you not believe every man has a right to make a choice? We have people on this very forum that claim atheism. They reject outright the existence of God. Are you telling me those people are going to heaven anyway? Is there really such a thing as hell, or is God simply trying to get us to behave before He takes all of us to heaven?

Your question was addressed, just not in the manner that you would have liked to hear it. The giving back or forfeiting what has been imputed by grace through faith when we believe it not that kind of gift, that's why you have a problem with it. You are thinking naturally as a man without the Spirit on this one. It is a gift that you can't work your way into nor work your way out of it, nor give back what does not belong to you. The gift is from God and it belongs to Him, not you or me. That gift has purchased us and we are not our own but belong to him. We are a purchased possession and the gift is irrevocable and we are kept by the power of that gift. You want to continue to think as a natural man on this you will always have a problem with eternal redemption and that is a tragedy of the faith.

You think I believe in universal salvation where everyone goes to heaven and that's because you have a misunderstanding about the finished work of the cross and what God did for sinful man through the sacrifice of His Son. The cross is a 'whosoever believes' gospel of the finished work not some give or take or give back gospel. When the believer is sealed by the Spirit that is an eternal sealing (title deed) that no man can take from the believer nor can it be sold or forfeited by the believer. The believer can go carnal and backslide and live a terrible life with the Spirit being grieved in his life, but the Spirit is not going anywhere and will remain in the believer doing a work until the day of redemption.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Ludicrous! What is a church? You think Christ is going to remove a buildings' candlestick????

Ludicrous huh? What do you think a church is. One believer? A church is a GROUP of believers assembled together. when 2 or three are gathered in his name, there he is. If the church has turned from God. then God will remove his candlestick (power which enables the work to do his will) even if there are some true believers in the church, yet the church has strayed to not doing what God wants it to do.

You think this is a reference to gathering together a bunch of buildings?

lol. If you think this, you do not understand what a church is.

 

[phil112]

.................... A church is a GROUP of believers assembled together. .................

So a church is several groups of people gathered together? Nonsense. Each individual is a part of the church. How many people does it take to make a Church? The church IS individuals.

And when they were come, and had gathered the church together

When they had gathered together each and everybody, they had the church. If Revelation is talking about a group collectively and not individually, where is the penalty? If I am in apostasy and a church member, what does it matter to me if the whole body and no individual gets penalized for my behaviour? That doesn't even come close to making sense. That is saying: "okay, each one of you people come on into heaven, but not the church body! Bad church body! No no! While each of you are here you cannot refer to yourselves as being from the church of Ephesus because that name is being penalized!"
That is asinine to even think that way. The penalty is dealt to the perpetrater. God is a just God, and we will each pay for our actions. Do you think the bible is lying when it tells us that?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So a church is several groups of people gathered together? Nonsense. Each individual is a part of the church. How many people does it take to make a Church? The church IS individuals. When they had gathered together each and everybody, they had the church.

first off. please do not add to what I have said, I never said several groups.

second., the word church comes from the greek word which means to assemble together. It does not mean a person. so the interpretation of the word in rev 7 would be a group of peopled assembled together in like mind. that is the definition of the church.

If Revelation is talking about a group collectively and not individually, where is the penalty?

what penalty? God said he would remove their lampstand, thats it, now are you going to add what he said? Do you even know what a lampstand represents? It represents a light. which in darkness. people are led by the light. the lampstand is the light, which leads the unsaved out of the darkness and to christ. Who powers that light? men? women? NO> GOD. so if the lampstand is taken away, the power of god to be a lamp into the world is removed.

This is the interpretation. your trying to twist what the word is saying, and use it to prove God will take someones salvation away. Salvation of any one persons soul is NOT THE CONTEXT!

If I am in apostasy and a church member, what does it matter to me if the whole body and no individual gets penalized for my behaviour?

if you have sinned and are not walking with God. you suffer, not the church. The lampstand would not be removed from the church for one persons sin. why can;t you see this? The fact is, in any church, there are probably members there who are not saved yet, and may never be saved, yet the lampstand would still be lit!

That doesn't even come close to making sense. That is saying: "okay, each one of you people come on into heaven, but not the church body! Bad church body! No no! While each of you are here you cannot refer to yourselves as being from the church of Ephesus because that name is being penalized!"
That is asinine to even think that way. The penalty is dealt to the perpetrater. God is a just God, and we will each pay for our actions. Do you think the bible is lying when it tells us that?

lol.

NO ONE SALVATION IS IN CONTEXT. why can;t you see this?? wow I am speachless!!

 

[notuptome]

The body is not one part but many parts fitly joined together by God. Each member is part of the body which is the church. God builds the church not men. So if one part is here and another on the far side of the earth yet both are joined in Christ as part of the whole.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[phil112]

.................This is the interpretation. your trying to twist what the word is saying, and use it to prove God will take someones salvation away. Salvation of any one persons soul is NOT THE CONTEXT!.............................I am speachless!!

That is the interpretation YOU subscribe to, not THE interpretation.

I am speechless!

Fixed it for you...and we can only wish it was true.
Read what I said in post 122 and respond. And while you're at it, answer the question I posed in post 134

 

[BradC]

No I don't. It isn't even close to being the same.

Answer me this: If a disciple talks to you about Christ, you believe him, and then get baptized as a believer, are you saved? Simple question, and a yes or no answer will suffice.

When I heard the gospel from the disciple and believed his report, yes I am saved by grace through faith the moment I believed. Then if I obey and partake of water baptism, I am taking that step of faith obedience to identify with Christ and the new birth and to follow Christ.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That is the interpretation YOU subscribe to, not THE interpretation.

no. that is THE interpretaion.

to the CHURCH

ἐκκλησία, ἡ, (ἔκκλητος) an assembly of the citizens regularly summoned, the legislative assembly, Thuc., etc.:—at Athens, the ordinary Assemblies were called κύριαι, the extraordinary being σύγκλητοι, ap. Dem.; ἐκκλ. συναγείρειν, συνάγειν, συλλέγειν, ἀθροίζειν to call an assembly, Hdt., etc.; ἐκκλ. ποιεῖν ‘to make a house,’ Ar.; ἐκκλ. γίγνεται, καθίσταται an assembly is held, Thuc.; ἐκκλ. διαλύειν, ἀναστῆσαι to dissolve it, Id., etc.; ἀναβάλλειν to adjourn it, Id.
II. in N.T. the Church, either the body, or the place. Hence ἐκκλησιάζω


Liddell, H. G. (1996). A lexicon: Abridged from Liddell and Scott’s Greek-English lexicon. Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

I know YOUR works.

He is speaking to the congregation. Not induvidual people.

There is no getting out of this my friend. The greek does not support your theory!

A candlestick is not given to a person. it is given to the whole church.

Rev 1: [SUP]20 [/SUP]The mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands which you saw[SUP][j][/SUP] are the seven churches.

The lampstand is the CHURCH. not an induvidual.

Read what I said in post 122 and respond. And while you're at it, answer the question I posed in post 134

why do we not stick to one subject first!

 

[endtimes]

Dude, I am not going to sit here and argue with you.

Scripture was not written in english The greek does not agree with what you say.

If you want to base your eternal life on a flawed english text. And work to earn your salvation feel free.

Alright, lets have a look at what the Greek says.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized[SUP]G907[/SUP] every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


Strong's Hebrew and Greek Dictionary:

G907
baptizō

From a derivative of G911; to make whelmed (that is, fully wet); used only (in the New Testament) of ceremonial ablution, especially (technically) of the ordinance of Christian baptism: - baptist, baptize, wash.




Thayer's Greek Definitions:

G907
baptizō

Thayer Definition:
1) to dip repeatedly, to immerse, to submerge (of vessels sunk)
2) to cleanse by dipping or submerging, to wash, to make clean with water, to wash one’s self, bathe
3) to overwhelm
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from a derivative of G911



It looks like the GREEK is in support of what Peter said.


Remember:

1. Peter was given the keys to the kingdom
2. Peter was speaking under the power of the Holy Spirit
3. Peter gave the answer to the million dollar question, when asked...

Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized[SUP]G907[/SUP] every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


God bless!

 

[ji]

ok well this has been on my mind for the whole day so just wanted to show everyone what the scripture said on this matter, is the right baptism necessary for receiving the holy spirit and your salvation, can the wrong baptism keep you from receiving the holy spirit? let us take a look into the holy word of God for the answer, he that has an ear to hear let him hear, and may God show you the right thing to do through his holy word,

now notice what Jesus said before he departed

Matthew 28:19

King James Version (KJV)

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:


now notice here that in name here is singular, it is not literally telling you to do it in father son holy spirit, and who is that name? Jesus Christ, but don't take my word for it brothers and sisters, i want you to notice now... pay very close attention to this, after Jesus had commanded the disciples to do this, notice this is after Jesus had left the earth and went to be at the right side of our Father God


Acts 2:37-38

King James Version (KJV)

37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.




do you see what i mean that " in the name " was singular and what it really meant don't take my word for it, it is right there for you to see, and notice NOT ONE PERSON in the bible was baptized in the name of the father son and holy spirit, if you can show me that i will admit that i am wrong, but if you can't just follow the word not my sayings i'm only pointing it out, NOW to the important question can having the WRONG baptism cause you not receive the holy spirit? now listen to this God does not change, if he did something one way back in the day it MUST be the same exact thing in THIS day, lets go to God's holy word to find the answer

Acts 19:2

King James Version (KJV)

2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

i want you to look closely at this now, NOTICE they BELIEVED in Jesus, but DID not receive the holy ghost, why was that? let's see the next question that was asked brothers and sisters


Acts 19:3

King James Version (KJV)

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.


do you see where the question ended up? unto WHAT then were ye baptized, and they said John's baptism,




Acts 19:4-6

King James Version (KJV)

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.




Do you see it friends? how important the right baptism is? AS THEY WERE baptized in Jesus Name they RECEIVE the holy ghost, now.. if back in the day the people had to be baptized in Jesus name, then the holy spirit came on them, when they were baptized in the name of Jesus christ, it WILL be the SAME exact thing THIS DAY, i pray that this may touch someone's heart and let them rethink things, he that have an ear to hear let him hear! God bless everyone

Beautiful explanation
God Bless..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Alright, lets have a look at what the Greek says.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized[SUP]G907[/SUP] every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


Strong's Hebrew and Greek Dictionary:

G907
baptizō

From a derivative of G911; to make whelmed (that is, fully wet); used only (in the New Testament) of ceremonial ablution, especially (technically) of the ordinance of Christian baptism: - baptist, baptize, wash.




Thayer's Greek Definitions:

G907
baptizō

Thayer Definition:
1) to dip repeatedly, to immerse, to submerge (of vessels sunk)
2) to cleanse by dipping or submerging, to wash, to make clean with water, to wash one’s self, bathe
3) to overwhelm
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from a derivative of G911



It looks like the GREEK is in support of what Peter said.


Remember:

1. Peter was given the keys to the kingdom
2. Peter was speaking under the power of the Holy Spirit
3. Peter gave the answer to the million dollar question, when asked...

Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized[SUP]G907[/SUP] every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


God bless!

Yes, lets look at it in ACTUAL greek as written. Not in your use of strongs, which does not show us the actual words used.

"... there are three clauses in this sentence, and the modifying phrases must stand in their respective, individual clauses, according to the rules of grammar. Consequently, if 'repent' is in a distinct clause from 'be baptized ' the modifying phrase "for the remission of sin" cannot modify both 'repent' and 'be baptized'


"The three clauses are --
(1) 'Repent ye:'

'ye' -- subject, second person plural number.

'Repent' -- verb, second person plural number, aorist imperative active voice.

(2) 'be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of sins:'

“every one of you” – third person, singular number.

'be baptized' -- verb, third person singular number, aorist passive imperative voice.

“unto the remission of your sins” – modifying phrase.

(3) 'ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit:'

'ye' -- subject, second person plural number.

'shall receive' -- verb, second person plural number, future, indicative voice.

'the gift of the Holy Spirit' -- direct object of verb.

"For the claims of Campbellism (Baptismal Regeneration) to be upheld, the first and second clauses would have to be connected so as to allow 'for the remission of sins' to modify both 'repent' and 'be baptized.' However, this presents the following grammatical problem: In the first clause, the person and number of the verb 'repent' do not agree with the verb 'be baptized' in the second clause. 'Repent' is second person plural number; 'be baptized' is third person singular number.

"It is a rule of Greek grammar, as it is in English, that the verb agrees with its subject in person and number:"

"Person is the quality of verbs which indicates whether the subject is speaking (first person), is being spoken to (second person), or is being spoken of (third person) ...

"Number is the quality of verbs which indicates whether the subject is singular or plural" Ray Summers, Essentials of New Testament Greek (Nashville: Broadman Press, 1950), p.12:


"If the subject of a verb is the person or the group of persons speaking, the verb is in the first person. If the subject of a verb is the person or group of persons spoken to, the verb is in the second person. If the subject of a verb is the person or the thing or the group spoken of, the verb is the third person" Let's Study Greek by Clarence B. Hale (Chicago: Moody Press, 1966), p. 9:

"These quotations from 'standard' Greek grammars express the simple fact that subjects and verbs agree with one another.

"It is evident, then, that repentance and baptism in Acts 2:38 cannot be combined so as to have both modified by the phrase, 'for the remission of sins.' The proper grammatical construction of the sentence forbids it.

To express this graphically, I enclose the following:

Repent ye, --------------------->
2nd person
ye shall receive ------------------------------>
2nd person
the gift of the Holy Spirit
object of 2nd person

All of you repent and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit

every one of you --------------->
3rd person
be baptized ----------------------------------->
3rd person
unto the remission of sins
object of third person



Every one of you (who repented and received the Holy Spirit) be baptized because the remission of sins.

(This is implied by verse 41. “Then they that received his word were baptized." )





The point that is obvious in the Greek is that the idea of repentance and the reception of the gift of the Holy Spirit is a separate action or event from the command to the persons to whom the baptism “for” the remission of sins is addressed. As much some may wish, we cannot deny the obvious separation given in the Greek and place the two events together as one little tight package. It is logical to think that the third person exhortation to be baptized is addressed to those within the third person plural group, those that were exhorted to repent and receive the Holy Spirit. It would be rightfully assumed that they had already possessed the Holy Spirit and and salvation, and were candidates for baptism, therefore they were baptized in "reference to" the remission of sins. They were saved before they were baptized. You baptize a believer, and you have a testimony. You baptize an unsaved person, and all you have is a wet sinner! Water does not save or convert. God is not limited to water! They were baptized because their sins were already remitted!

Next?

 

[Reformedjason]

Yes, lets look at it in ACTUAL greek as written. Not in your use of strongs, which does not show us the actual words used.

"... there are three clauses in this sentence, and the modifying phrases must stand in their respective, individual clauses, according to the rules of grammar. Consequently, if 'repent' is in a distinct clause from 'be baptized ' the modifying phrase "for the remission of sin" cannot modify both 'repent' and 'be baptized'


"The three clauses are --
(1) 'Repent ye:'

'ye' -- subject, second person plural number.

'Repent' -- verb, second person plural number, aorist imperative active voice.

(2) 'be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of sins:'

“every one of you” – third person, singular number.

'be baptized' -- verb, third person singular number, aorist passive imperative voice.

“unto the remission of your sins” – modifying phrase.

(3) 'ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit:'

'ye' -- subject, second person plural number.

'shall receive' -- verb, second person plural number, future, indicative voice.

'the gift of the Holy Spirit' -- direct object of verb.

"For the claims of Campbellism (Baptismal Regeneration) to be upheld, the first and second clauses would have to be connected so as to allow 'for the remission of sins' to modify both 'repent' and 'be baptized.' However, this presents the following grammatical problem: In the first clause, the person and number of the verb 'repent' do not agree with the verb 'be baptized' in the second clause. 'Repent' is second person plural number; 'be baptized' is third person singular number.

"It is a rule of Greek grammar, as it is in English, that the verb agrees with its subject in person and number:"

"Person is the quality of verbs which indicates whether the subject is speaking (first person), is being spoken to (second person), or is being spoken of (third person) ...

"Number is the quality of verbs which indicates whether the subject is singular or plural" Ray Summers, Essentials of New Testament Greek (Nashville: Broadman Press, 1950), p.12:


"If the subject of a verb is the person or the group of persons speaking, the verb is in the first person. If the subject of a verb is the person or group of persons spoken to, the verb is in the second person. If the subject of a verb is the person or the thing or the group spoken of, the verb is the third person" Let's Study Greek by Clarence B. Hale (Chicago: Moody Press, 1966), p. 9:

"These quotations from 'standard' Greek grammars express the simple fact that subjects and verbs agree with one another.

"It is evident, then, that repentance and baptism in Acts 2:38 cannot be combined so as to have both modified by the phrase, 'for the remission of sins.' The proper grammatical construction of the sentence forbids it.

To express this graphically, I enclose the following:

Repent ye, --------------------->
2nd person
ye shall receive ------------------------------>
2nd person
the gift of the Holy Spirit
object of 2nd person

All of you repent and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit

every one of you --------------->
3rd person
be baptized ----------------------------------->
3rd person
unto the remission of sins
object of third person



Every one of you (who repented and received the Holy Spirit) be baptized because the remission of sins.

(This is implied by verse 41. “Then they that received his word were baptized." )





The point that is obvious in the Greek is that the idea of repentance and the reception of the gift of the Holy Spirit is a separate action or event from the command to the persons to whom the baptism “for” the remission of sins is addressed. As much some may wish, we cannot deny the obvious separation given in the Greek and place the two events together as one little tight package. It is logical to think that the third person exhortation to be baptized is addressed to those within the third person plural group, those that were exhorted to repent and receive the Holy Spirit. It would be rightfully assumed that they had already possessed the Holy Spirit and and salvation, and were candidates for baptism, therefore they were baptized in "reference to" the remission of sins. They were saved before they were baptized. You baptize a believer, and you have a testimony. You baptize an unsaved person, and all you have is a wet sinner! Water does not save or convert. God is not limited to water! They were baptized because their sins were already remitted!

Next?

Wow. Thanks for this

 

[endtimes]

The point that is obvious in the Greek is that the idea of repentance and the reception of the gift of the Holy Spirit is a separate action or event from the command to the persons to whom the baptism “for” the remission of sins is addressed. As much some may wish, we cannot deny the obvious separation given in the Greek and place the two events together as one little tight package. It is logical to think that the third person exhortation to be baptized is addressed to those within the third person plural group, those that were exhorted to repent and receive the Holy Spirit. It would be rightfully assumed that they had already possessed the Holy Spirit and and salvation, and were candidates for baptism, therefore they were baptized in "reference to" the remission of sins. They were saved before they were baptized. You baptize a believer, and you have a testimony. You baptize an unsaved person, and all you have is a wet sinner! Water does not save or convert. God is not limited to water! They were baptized because their sins were already remitted!

Next?

John the Baptist, whom God sent to prepare the way of the Lord, preached and administered the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins...

Mark 1:2 As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
[3] The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
[4] John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.


Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:


John’s baptism was for the remission of sins, but could not confer absolute remission, nor could it deal with future sins. Before Christ’s death all remission was conditioned upon that future event. Jesus Himself was baptized by John in order to fulfill all righteousness.


Mark 1:9 And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan.



John 3:23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.



Paul also described baptism as a burial with Christ...


Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Colossians 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.




Peter said, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins. The remission denotes a release, wiping out, cancellation, or dismissal. And, at baptism, God releases, wipes out, cancels, and dismisses our sins.


God bless!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

John the Baptist, whom God sent to prepare the way of the Lord, preached and administered the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins...

the word for does not always mean in order to get. It can also mean because you have already received.

This is proven by the fact he demanded proof of repentance before he would even baptize someone.

next.....

 

[phil112]

....................................

You do realize it is intellectually dishonest to use a source without linking to, or referencing that source. Copy and paste is handy, but it should be acknowledged for what it is.

 

[Josh321]

i don't get it though what is there to argue about, how much more clearer do you want it?

[h=3]Acts 2:37-38[/h]King James Version (KJV)

37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.



what is there to argue about... my goodness your letting your knowledge get in the way of what is being said... what shall we do? oh just repent and that's it, did he say that? no... repent and BE BAPTIZED, AND YE SHALL RECEIVE THE GIFT OF THE HOLY GHOST, 2 instructions were giving brother... not one, if baptism was not important he would've said just repent and that's it, now rememer peter had the keys, the Lord Jesus gave him the keys to the kingdom, so peter had to give the right and perfect perscription for the people to receive the holy spirit and join the kingdom, and what did he say when he was asked WHAT SHALL WE DO?38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.