Is there a difference between the Holy Spirit and the Holy Ghost?

JaumeJ · Oct 27, 2018

For those who read only one version of the Word and question others who always do not.

Mat 3:11
(ABP+) Forasmuch as IG1473 G3303 immerseG907 youG1473 inG1722 waterG5204 forG1519 repentance,G3341 the oneG3588 G1161 [2afterG3694 3meG1473 1comingG2064 5stronger thanG2478 6meG1473 4is];G1510.2.3 of whomG3739 I am notG3756 G1510.2.1 fitG2425 [2theG3588 3sandalsG5266 1to bear].G941 HeG1473 shall immerse youG1473 G907 inG1722 [2spiritG4151 1holy]G39 andG2532 fire --G4442
(ASV) I indeed baptize you in water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you in the Holy Spirit and in fire:
(CEV) I baptize you with water so that you will give up your sins. But someone more powerful is going to come, and I am not good enough even to carry his sandals. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.
(Darby) *I* indeed baptise you with water to repentance, but he that comes after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not fit to bear; *he* shall baptise you with the Holy Spirit and fire;
(DRB) I indeed baptize you in water unto penance, but he that shall come after me, is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you in the Holy Ghost and fire.
(FDB) Moi, je vous baptise d'eau pour la repentance; mais celui qui vient après moi est plus puissant que moi, et je ne suis pas digne de porter ses sandales: lui vous baptisera de l'Esprit Saint et de feu.
(FLS) Moi, je vous baptise d'eau, pour vous amener à la repentance; mais celui qui vient après moi est plus puissant que moi, et je ne suis pas digne de porter ses souliers. Lui, il vous baptisera du Saint Esprit et de feu.
(HNT) הן אנכי טובל אתכם במים לתשובה והבא אחרי חזק ממני אשר קטנתי משאת נעליו והוא יטבל אתכם ברוח הקדש ובאש׃
(INR) Io vi battezzo con acqua, in vista del ravvedimento; ma colui che viene dopo di me è più forte di me, e io non sono degno di portargli i calzari; egli vi battezzerà con lo Spirito Santo e con il fuoco.
(IRL) Ben vi battezzo io con acqua, in vista del ravvedimento; ma colui che viene dietro a me è più forte di me, ed io non son degno di portargli i calzari; egli vi battezzerà con lo Spirito Santo e con fuoco.
(ISV) I am baptizing you with water as a token of repentance, but the one who is coming after me is stronger than I am, and I am not worthy to carry his sandals. It is he who will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
(KJV) I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
(KJV+) IG1473 indeedG3303 baptizeG907 youG5209 withG1722 waterG5204 untoG1519 repentance:G3341 butG1161 he that comethG2064 afterG3694 meG3450 isG2076 mightierG2478 than I,G3450 whoseG3739 shoesG5266 I amG1510 notG3756 worthyG2425 to bear:G941 heG846 shall baptizeG907 youG5209 withG1722 the HolyG40 Ghost,G4151 andG2532 with fire:G4442
(ROB) Eu unul vă botez cu apă spre pocăinţă, dar Cel ce vine după mine este mai puternic decât mine; Lui nu sunt vrednic să-I duc încălţămintea; Acesta vă va boteza cu Duh Sfânt şi cu foc.
(SSE) Yo a la verdad os bautizo en agua para arrepentimiento; mas el que viene tras de mí, más poderoso es que yo; los zapatos del cual yo no soy digno de llevar. El os bautizará en Espíritu Santo y fuego.
(TKK) Gerçi ben sizi tövbe için suyla vaftiz ediyorum, ama benden sonra gelen benden daha güçlüdür. Ben O'nun çarıklarını çıkarmaya bile layık değilim. O sizi Kutsal Ruh'la ve ateşle vaftiz edecek.
(Vulgate) ego quidem vos baptizo in aqua in paenitentiam qui autem post me venturus est fortior me est cuius non sum dignus calciamenta portare ipse vos baptizabit in Spiritu Sancto et igni
(Webster) I indeed baptize you with water to repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit, and with fire:
(WNT) I indeed am baptizing you in water on a profession of repentance; but He who is coming after me is mightier than I: His sandals I am not worthy to carry for a moment; He will baptize you in the Holy Spirit and in fire.

ForestGreenCook · Oct 27, 2018

garee said:

Many denomination teach the Holy Spirit as our treasure did not dwell in the earthen bodies of death until Acts 2.

2 Corinthians 4:7But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

Most denominations from my experience I believe base that on what David said in the Psalms... one verse (Psalm 51:11) "do not take away the Holy Spirit from me". As if Christ the anointing Holy Spirit of God must be crucified again and again to public shame as if once was not enough to secure our salvation.

It seems David must of been saying; be quick to call me back to the salvation I already have with you so that then David could comfort or ease his own self (repent) as his word turned David to hear him who is invisible . Turn me and I shall be turned (Jeremiah 31:18)

In Ezekiel 37:13 he promises to open the graves to raise the old testament saints that did have the Holy Spirit dwelling in them as the glory that did come. They entered our heavenly home as our Holy City as the first resurrection many angels witnessed it.

1 Peter offers I believe an interesting fact of the Holy Spirit that worked in the old testament saint to both will and perfom the good pleasure of our God. Speaking to those who had already received the end of their faith the salvation of their souls not the beginning hearing God our first love.

Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. 1 Peter 1:9-11

The difference being.... we look back to that glorious day , they looked ahead by faith. the same Holy Spirit dwelling in them both of our treasures the excellency of the power of God, and not of us. lest any boast in self pride

Matthew 27:52

And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

Thanks for your explanations. I am understanding that in the old testament there were men who had the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Can you elaborate on the Holy Ghost that was not given until after Jesus ascended?

ForestGreenCook · Oct 27, 2018

Nehemiah6 said:

The Holy Spirit is God the Holy Spirit, and was with the Father, and with the Son since eternity past. Then we see the Holy Ghost at work at the very beginning of creation ( "And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters" Gen 1:2). and is subsequently mentioned throughout the Old Testament.

While the OT saints were justified by grace through faith, the Holy Spirit was not given as a gift to every believer under the Old Covenant, and could come and also depart from individuals. Moses and David both received the Spirit, as did most of the prophets, since when they spoke or wrote they were "moved by the Spirit".

However, God had promised to give the gift of the Holy Spirit to each and every believer within the New Covenant (and you will find this within the details of the New Covenant). He would also be the Paraclete or Comforter for every believer, meaning that Christ would not leave His people as orphans on earth. The Holy Ghost would become the indwelling Holy Spirit, never to depart from any believer.

At the same time, the Holy Spirit had a specific ministry on earth for the Gospel Age, but He could not be *poured out* upon all flesh until and unless Christ had finished His work of redemption, been resurrected, and also ascended to Heaven. And it was only after the ascension of Christ that both the Father and the Son could send down the Holy Spirit as promised.

Furthermore, there would be a specific day (the day of Pentecost) on which the Holy Spirit would come to earth in great power, in order to be given as a gift to everyone who believed. That is when the New Testament saints would be regenerated, receive the gifts of the Spirit, be "filled with the Spirit", and be empowered by the Spirit in order to "walk in the Spirit". The Spirit would also baptize believers into the Body of Christ, thus forming a new entity called "the Church" (with Jew and Gentile in one Body). This too was a mystery hidden from the OT prophets.

Just as Christ was crucified on the day of Passover, and resurrected on the Feast of First Fruits, the Holy Spirit was sent 50 days after Passover on the day of Pentecost to signify that the harvest feast of Pentecost was fulfilled on that day. But rather than a harvest of grains, there was a harvest of souls. And souls have been saved ever since by the preaching of the Gospel and the convincing and convicting power of the Holy Spirit. Both are SUPERNATURAL AGENTS to bring sinners to the Savior and complete the Church.

When you say that the Holy Spirit in the old testament could come into a person for awhile and then go out of that person. Can you reference me a scripture to justify that? Tell me this, In Ezekiel 36:26-27, does this process of being born again have to be redone every time the Holy Spirit goes in and out of the person? How does that equate with Eph 2:5?

ForestGreenCook · Oct 27, 2018

maxwel said:

You will have to elaborate more than this for me to respond to your comment.

ForestGreenCook · Oct 27, 2018

TabinRivCA said:

Truth is not based upon the amount of people that respond, or how big the congregation is.

JaumeJ · Oct 27, 2018

Why always ask for Scripture, is not the Holy Spirit indwelling in all who believe?

How do you believe it possible for the prophets to have written down God''s words for them?

Hos is it possible for Enoch to have been translated were it not the Holy Spirit?

Were I to say God has spoken to individuals even today, you would most likely ask for Scripture to support the declaration……..Well my friend, that takes faith.

Peopl who hav had the necessary teaching for each of them from the Word have been taught by the Holy Spirit……….Do you need scripture for this too?

The Holy Spirit in you should testify to what people share here and in person with you. It is strongly adviseable that you learn to believe all things good, all things beautiful……...

maxwel · Oct 27, 2018

ForestGreenCook said:

Sorry to bring up logic so early in the day... but... ummm...

1. Your statement, above, is true.

2. The way you applied this statement is... completely irrelevant and proved absolutely nothing.

3. How so?

A. Your statement was a response to someone saying,
"Billy Graham preached salvation and through his sermons brought prob millions to Jesus Christ."
B. If Billy Graham DID "bring millions to Christ", then, by definition, in order for people to genuinely come "to Christ", that could only have occurred through the gospel, which by definition, is "the truth".
C. Restated: If millions of people came to Christ through Billy Graham's preaching, he must have been preaching the truth... as no one can genuinely "come to Christ" without the truth of the gospel.

4. You actually made a TRUE STATEMENT, then applied that true statement to a proposition that has nothing to do with it.

5. If you don't like Billy Graham, then you would need to argue he was actually NOT PREACHING THE TRUTH, and NOT BRINGING PEOPLE TO CHRIST... and that is not what you did.

6. This is what happens when we don't really listen to the person we're arguing with.

7. Rest Assured: If you find ME arguing with you, you can be certain I'm listening to what you say... and... you probably won't be happy about it.

Conclusion:
If you want to argue, please take a moment to actually listen to the person you're arguing with.

...

JaumeJ · Oct 27, 2018

In all fairness, the vast majority of people claiming to follow Jesus Christ in the very latter moments of time will be false...….ergo the great falling away.

The vast majority of the world will be behind the Beast. Billy Graham was fond of being in the White House for whatever president was presiding at the time, and I never heard a convincing witenss from any of them…..

Yes, the larger congregations tend to be fleshly, and materially oriented. Logic or no logic, truth.

ForestGreenCook · Oct 27, 2018

maxwel said:

What I am trying to point out is that false doctrines, by evidence, has caused many to respond, but I am saying that they had already been regenerated before they responded, else they would not have responded to a spiritual gospel. The natural man as described in 1 Cor 2:14 would not have responded because it would have been foolishness to him because he cannot discern spiritual things. I know that a lot of people like Billy Graham, as I do myself, but in my discernment, he did preach a false doctrine and I was expecting a negative response from people on this forum.

Sackcloth-N-Ashes · Oct 27, 2018

I have always thought Ghost and Spirit were the same. Just used differently in various translations.

garee · Oct 27, 2018

ForestGreenCook said:

Thanks, I can try. I think the verse I am offering below is the subject,

Side note.. Blood like living water are both used to repsct the Holy Spirit the anotniting Spirit of Christ. Christ meaning the anointing teaching comforting one who brings to our mind all things he has taught us

He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) John 7:38 -39

Out of his belly shall flow rivers of living or moving water. In that parable above living water represents the work of the Spirit the gospel or we could say the doctrines of God, also called the cleansing water of the word that Christ washes his wife the church with. And us as husbands are to wash or wives with.

Deuteronomy 32:2 My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:

The Son of man who has informed us his flesh typified as sinfull (corrupted) profits for nothing.... revealing it is the unseen Spirit that does the work of quickening our souls . the Son of man seen was speaking of the unseen faith principle.

Jesus as son of man seen was used as a representative glory of the true glory of God. ( I have gloried you not seen on earth) The true unveiled glory will not be revealed until the new heaven and earth appear. Then the glory of God will be the light no more night.The Sun and the moon have served there purpose as temporal time keepers.

For the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)This Jesus spoke of his unseen spirt not in respect to his flesh seen . God is not a man as us

In Job 9 the scriptures declares, God is not a man as us and neither is there any fleshly infallible umpire called a "daysman" in the King James a mediator between God and man to stand between God not seen and man seen .

Even the Son of man in respect to His when called good teacher resisted be called that. There would be no honor given to the flesh .So when we read unless he go the Holy Spirit will not come .He was in effect only God not seen is good. Good is defined by Him not seen not by that which is seen . Refusing to be called a daysman and destroy the faith principle the unseen Holy place of God . The Son of man Jesus would not stand in the Holy place as the abomination of desecration . But rather gave glory to Father not seen

There were a handful of believers who did know Christ after the flesh, possibly 500 or so but even when he was approached according to the flesh with men Like Thomas he would use that to help us understand what it was to be faithless. He did not set his approval on walking by sight . When he did leave having finished the outward demonstration of the promise of Joel pouring out of His Spirit . he gave clear instruction that even though some did know him after the flesh, from that time forth we known him no more forever more. God is not a man us . He remains without mother or father beginning of Spirit life or end thereof.

Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.2 Corithians 5:16

Dino246 · Oct 27, 2018

maxwel said:

Or their devotion to 16th-century English.

maxwel · Oct 27, 2018

ForestGreenCook said:

I understood what you were trying to point out.

I'm not arguing whether your INTENDED SUPPOSITION is right or wrong;
I'm just showing that your METHOD for supporting your supposition DID NOTHING TO SUPPORT IT.

I was talking ONLY about using correct logic to support our points.

As Christians, we should try harder to be clear, and to use correct logic to make our points.

That is all.

....

JaumeJ · Oct 27, 2018

The faith we all have is not in things seen but things yet unseen……….

The Holy Spirit has been assassinated by most denominations.

When the Holy Spiritentered into me I had great indignation about this
and about how the many put words into theMuth of God

Of course our Master, Jesus, warned that apostasy would abund befoe He
returned, and so it does. He is wonderful, and keeps us informed.

PS...ñI forgot…….all the science of this age will burn in the fire next time, so it would be good
not to destroy oneself in what is falsely called science (knowledge.)

Lillywolf · Oct 27, 2018

ForestGreenCook said:

Yet, all that you do believe there described are man's interpretations.
Hearsay concerning Dr.Graham is not a righteous means of levying that judgment that you have against him. You know nothing of Dr.Graham's preaching but you judge him false.
That's wrong of you.

Angela53510 · Oct 27, 2018

There is no difference. There are two words for Spirit, one in Hebrew, the other in Greek. There are actually quite a few definitions and usages in the Bible for these words, but the one we are interested in, is of course, the Holy Spirit.

רוה or rush fem. sg, is "spirit, Spirit, wind breath" as a gloss. However, BDB (Brown-Driver-Briggs a Hebrew lexicon!) has 3 full columns of definitions, and where they are found in the Old Testament. In BDB Isa. 63:11 (from the OP) and Psalm 51:11, is 51:13 in Hebrew, including the title and words introducing the psalm. It is 9f. and means "ancient angel of the presence and later Shekina." The only other place it is used this way is Psalm 106:33. And just for interest. Strong's has 9 different numbers for this one word, making it seem like there are many words, when in fact, there are only many definitions. Anyway, some meanings for רוה:

1. breath of mouth or nostrils, windy words, word of command

2.a. wind, including wind of heaven, east wind, rushing wind etc. Context says this definition is talking about actual wind. Except Eccl, when it is talking about vain, empty thing.

3. spirit, as that which breathes quickly, in animation or agitation =temper, disposition.
a. spirit, animation, vivacity, vigour,
b.courage
c. temper, esp. anger Prov. 16:32;
d. impatience or patience Ex. 6:9
e. spirit, disposition, troubled, bitter or discontented Gen. 41:8; Deut. 2:3 Also, bitterness of Spirit Isa.54:6; Ez.3:14
f. as crushed Ex. 21:12 etc.
g. dispositions of various kinds often unaccountable and uncontrolled impulse 1 Chron. 5:26; 2 Chron. 21:16 etc.
h. Prophetic Spirit Num. 27:18 Spirit of deep sleep Isa. 29:10

4. spirit of the living, breathing being, dwelling in the bashar of men and animals.

5. spirit as seat of emotion - Isa. 26:9; Job 7:11

6. occasionally (and late) seat or organ of mental acts Isa. 29:24; Psalm 77:7

7. rarely of the will - Psalm 51:12; Isa. 40:13 etc

8. esp. of moral character - Ez. 11:19; Isa. 59:21; Prov. 16:19; Psalm 79:8

9. Spirit of God
a. an inspiring ecstatic state of prophecy - Num. 11:17,25, 26, 29; 1 Sam 10:6. 10
b. spirit as impelling prophet to utter instruction or warning. Num. 24:2; 2 Sam. 23:2 etc.
c. imparting warlike energy and executive and administrative power Ju 3:10; 1 Sam 11:6 Isa. 11: 2, etc
d. late, as endowing men with various gifts; technical skill Ex. 31:3; Isa 31:8; Prov. 1:23 etc
e. as energy of life Gen. 1:2; Job 33:4 etc
f. ancient angel of the presence and later Shekina Psalm 51:11; Isa. 63:11

In Greek, the word is πνεὐμα, and the gloss is spirit, Spirit, wind, breath, inner life. It appears 379 times in the NT, and BDAG (Bauer - a Greek lexicon) gives the following definitions.

1. air in movement, blowing, breathing, (2 Thess. 2:8

2. that which animates the body, breath, life (spirit) (Matt 27:50, Luke 8:55, Hebrews 12:23, etc.)

3. a part of human personality, spirit, (1 Cor. 5:3-5, 7:34; Phil. 1:27; Hebrews 4:12, and Luke uses it a lot in Luke and Acts.

4. an independent non corporeal being, in contrast to a being that can be perceived by the physical senses.
a. God personally - James 4:24a,
b. good or not expressly evil spirits - Acts 23:8f; Hebrews 12:9 and in Rev. the hepta or seven spirits - Rev. 1:4, 3:1,
4:5, 5:6.
c. evil spirits - Matt 12:43, Mark 1:23; Luke 8:29 1 Tim. 4:1b and many others

5. God's being as controlling influence, with focus on association with human beings.
a. the Spirit of God = the Lord, 1 Cor. 2:11b, Matt 12:18, Acts 5:9, Romans 8:9b and many more
b. The Spirit of Christ Acts 16:7; 1 Peter 1:11; Romans 8:9c; Phil. 1:19; 2 Cor. 3:17b, 3:18. and many more
c. the Holy Spirit τὸ πνεὐμα τὸ ῞αγιον Matt 12:22= Mark 3:29= Luke 12:10; Eph. 1:13; Hebrews 3:7 and many more
And more without the article - non-articular Mark 1:8; Luke 1:15, 35, 41 67. (In other words - no "the") etc.
d. with the article, used anaphorically Js. 4:5, etc.
without the article - Gal 3:3, 5:5, 16, 18; 1 Peter 4:6 etc.
e. The Spirit is more closely defined by what it is near. τὸ πνεῦμα τῆς ἀληθείας The Spirit of Truth.
f. Of Christ, "it is written" in Scripture
g. the (divine) Spirit stands in contrast to everything that characterizes this age or the finite world. 1 Cor. 2:12;
Eph. 2:2 1 Tim. 4:1ab
*contrast to σἀρξ which is more closely connected to sin than any other earthly material, John 3:6, Romans
8:4-6, 9a, 13; Gal 3:3 etc
*σὼμα Romans 8:10, John 6:63:a
* in contrast to γράμμα, (gramma or writing) which is the characteristic of God's older declaration of the
divine will of the law. Romans 2:29, 7:6; 2 Cor. 3:6ab, 8.
* in contrast to the wisdom of humans 1 Cor. 2:13

6. The Spirit of God as exhibited in character or activity of God's people or selected agents, Spirit, spirit,

7. An activating spirit that is not from God. A different kind of spirit. 2 Cor. 11:4; 2 Thess. 2:2; 1 John 4:1-3 etc.

8. an independent transcendent personality, the Spirit, Matt 28:19; 2 Cor. 13:13

As for Holy Ghost, that is an archaic word. It might have meant "Holy Spirit" 400 years ago, but today, the meaning is just plain confusing, IMO. No modern translations use that word, and with good reason!

PS. This shows you some of the difficulties of translating! Which meaning? Glad someone else figured it out!

ToastAndTea · Oct 27, 2018

There is no difference, the Holy Ghost is simply another word for the Holy Spirit.

ToastAndTea · Oct 27, 2018

My family was from a JW background, they do not believe in the doctrine of the Holy Spirit (obviously). The say that the word "Spirit" refers only to a breath or wind. They deny that it is person. Obviously I do not agree with that.

dcontroversal · Oct 27, 2018

NO..........

reneweddaybyday · Oct 27, 2018

Isaiah 63:11 Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that put his holy Spirit within him?

In Isaiah 63:11, the word "Spirit" is the Hebrew word rū-aḥ. The first use of the word rū-aḥ is Gen 1:2 which states and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

We know from Eph 4:4 that there is one Spirit. So we know that the Holy Spirit before Pentecost is the same Holy Spirit after Pentecost. And we know from John 14:26 that the Comforter is the Holy Spirit.

While I believe the Holy Spirit of the OT is the same Holy Spirit of the NT, I also believe that in OT, the Spirit rested upon God's people and in our day and time the Holy Spirit dwells within those who are born again.

Is there a difference between the Holy Spirit and the Holy Ghost?

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