Is there ANYBODY ...OUT THERE!!!

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GraceAndTruth

Junior Member
Sep 28, 2015
1,108
314
83
#61
No.. I do not believe ones belief or not in regard to the 5 calvinist doctrines of which eternal security is one has any baring in ones salvation..

I don't believe in eternal security as i probably have already stated..
Eternal security is not just a "calvinist" doctrine, it is the statement of faith for every bible believing church

God adopts His kids......Eph 1:3
He does NOT unadopt them.

The prodigal son was not rejected.......the truth in that parable is that God (the father in that verse) is faithful even if we are not.
 

Waggles

Senior Member
Sep 21, 2017
3,338
1,243
113
South
adelaiderevival.com
#62
9. Water Baptism NOT necessary for Salvation.
Well no wonder other people who know better do not agree with you.
As you are completely wrong and lacking in doctrinal truth on this fundamental matter of the necessity (even the commandment)
for believers to be baptised in water by full immersion then it is good that others do not believe your error.
Actually going through your list I read a plethora of false doctrines and much error.
Thank God that the holy Spirit teaches us the truth and we can avoid these pitfalls of error.
 

jaybird88

Senior Member
Jan 7, 2015
5,265
426
83
#64
the problem with all the "every Christian MUST believe . . ." philosophies is they always come from man and never come from Jesus.
IMO when your faith hinges on what other people believe rather than what you believe, you might want to re think what you believe in.
 

kaylagrl

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2014
14,417
2,303
113
#65
The genitles were grafted IN. Gentiles have become Israel along with believing Jews.
Israel is the church in the new covenant
Genesis 17: 19-21 the covenant is with Isaac

Romans 2:29….but he is a Jew who is one INWARDLY, and circumcision is that which is of the HEART, by the Spirit.

Circumcism of the FLESH was a sign of the OLD covenant with God’s chosen people, the Jews……in the New Covenant……circumcism is by the Spirit on God’s chosen…….THE CHURCH.

The circumcism is done by the Spirit on the HEART of men

Romans 9: 6 ….they are not all Israel who are decended from Israel
7 neither are they all children because they are Abrahams’s descendents, but THRU ISAAC your descendents will be
named.
8 the CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE are regarded as descendents.

Romans 11: 7 that which Israel (the Jews of the nation Israel) is seeking for, (salvation – see context) it has not obtained, but those who were CHOSEN obtained it, and the rest were hardened.

Galatians 3:29 …..if you belong to Christ, then you are ABRAHAM’s offspring, HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE

SPIRITUAL JEWS = Israel (the one who is a Jew INWARDLY)
Galatians 4:28……you brethren, like Isaac, are CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE

Those who are of faith are sons of Abraham Gal 3:7

The TRUE CIRCUMCISM are we who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh
Phil 3:3

Heard this over and over. No, Israel is still Israel and the church is still the church. The Jews are still God's chosen and He will still fulfill His promises to them. Replacement Theology is false.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
44,321
17,843
113
#66
Since becoming a born again Child of God, some 25 yrs. ago, I have come to understand 1 overriding principle. There isn't a Christian I know, including my wife and children, that believe exactly as I believe, on every doctrine or issue.

So with that in mind, I'd like to see if there is indeed ANYBODY out there that believes everything I do. Or at least someone who comes close. I'm not going to give their doctrinal names.

Here are the fundamentals that I believe every Christian MUST believe and agree on to be considered my brother or sister in the Lord:

1. We are ALL sinners in need of a Savior.

2. Jesus Christ IS that Savior. The ONLY Savior.

3. Jesus IS God in the flesh, conceived by the Holy Spirit, born to a virgin.

4. Jesus was crucified and died to pay our sin debt.

5. God raised Him to life from the dead. ( Believing all this comes by Grace through Faith )

Issues that are probably necessary, but won't discount that person could be my Brethren if they believe differently, because not absolutely certain is vital:

6. The Trinity in the sense that God is 3 distinct persons. ( denying Jesus is God means not a Christian however )

7. Absolutely no works to attain or maintain Salvation.

8. Impossibility of losing Salvation. ( If you spell LOSING, LOOSING, probably not saved! LOL )

9. Water Baptism NOT necessary for Salvation.

10. The Bible is infallible in it's original languages written.

Issues that I am convinced of, but don't believe it affects Salvation to those that think differently.

11. The Church DID NOT replace Israel. They have different promises and destinies, although BOTH are saved by the Blood of Christ.

12. Allegorizing, using as a metaphor, and not taking the Bible literally does violence to Scripture, and leads to all manner of private interpretations. (Obviously there are many figures of speech in Scripture, but the text itself, or obvious context, dictate them)

13. Just as Heaven will be consciously Eternal, Hell will also be conscious eternally.

14. The sons of God in Genesis 6 ARE the fallen angels being held in Tartarus for having sex and procreating with human women, making a hybrid race on a DNA level, mentioned in 2 Peter and Jude.

15. Jesus will reign for a literal 1000 yrs on Earth after the Great Tribulation.

16. God chooses us, none of us would choose Him. He alone gives us the faith to believe, and we would ALL remain dead unless HE ALONE chooses to save us.

17. There will be different rewards given to the saved based on their walk and works on Earth. NOT AFFECTING SALVATION

18. I believe there are still gifts of the Holy Spirit, although talking in tongues is only if there is somebody to understand. Tongues are not necessary to prove indwelling Holy Spirit.

19. There will be a pre-tribulation rapture.

20 Christ's return is imminent.

There are probably a dozen or more issues, but I'm asking if there is a single person who believes even 15 of the 20 I listed. I'd be shocked if there were someone who believed ALL 20.

So. IS THERE ANYBODY >>>> OUT THERE
I agree with everything except 18 thru 20, I would embellish and qualify numbers 14 and 16.......
 

obedienttogod

Well-known member
Jan 3, 2019
1,012
342
83
#67
Wrong, wrong, wrong. Simply wrong.
Most people who believe the gift of Tongues has ceased uses this verse...
  • 1 Corinthians 13:
    8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.​
    Since we know the above is the translation version, which typically is skewed and at times wrong. We also know for a fact that Paul wrote Corinthians in Greek. So, let's see specifically what the proper Greek translation claims what Paul actually said in 1 Corinthians 13:8...
    This is from my own Greek Bible, and it shows this verse in a different view!!

    1 Corinthians 13:
    8 Love is never lapsing: yet, whether prophecies, they will be discarded, or languages, they will cease, or knowledge, it will be discarded."​

The proper Greek translation claims the word TONGUES, in this verse from Paul, actually is referring to our human languages that we speak, not the gift of Tongues. Any time I hear a preacher make the claim from this verse in respect to the Holy Spirit, I run as fast as I can and show him/her the truth, just to see the STUPID LOOK they deserve to be wearing for spreading an OUTRIGHT LIE!!
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
10,619
4,084
113
#69
The proper Greek translation claims the word TONGUES, in this verse from Paul, actually is referring to our human languages that we speak, not the gift of Tongues.
The gift of tongues was in fact the spiritual gift of supernaturally speaking known human languages without ever having learned them (see Acts 2).

Had the KJV translators simply used the word *language (s)* they would have been perfectly in accord with what is revealed. However, since *tongues* was a common translation for languages at that time, we find it used in Scripture.

So you have not made any earth-shaking discovery, but simply confirmed that babbling is NOT the spiritual gift of tongues. That is why an interpreter was necessary as confirmed by Paul. And that spiritual gift would cease when the Bible had been completed.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
5,888
2,512
113
#70
Eternal security is not just a "calvinist" doctrine, it is the statement of faith for every bible believing church

God adopts His kids......Eph 1:3
He does NOT unadopt them.

The prodigal son was not rejected.......the truth in that parable is that God (the father in that verse) is faithful even if we are not.
The prodigal son Had to Return to His father and acknowledge his sin.. If the prodigal son had never come back and died in that foreign land he would have never received an inheritance..

Some people abandon the Father and never come back..
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
8,030
4,293
113
#71
The prodigal son Had to Return to His father and acknowledge his sin.. If the prodigal son had never come back and died in that foreign land he would have never received an inheritance..

Some people abandon the Father and never come back..

You know the drill. If those people never come back, they fall into this category:

1 John 2:19 New King James Version (NKJV)
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

If they DO come back, they fall into THIS category:

Matthew 18:12-14 New King James Version (NKJV)
12 “What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine and go to the mountains to seek the one that is straying? 13 And if he should find it, assuredly, I say to you, he rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray. 14 Even so it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish.

The former were NEVER Children. The latter NEVER stopped being Children.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
5,888
2,512
113
#72
You know the drill. If those people never come back, they fall into this category:

1 John 2:19 New King James Version (NKJV)
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

If they DO come back, they fall into THIS category:

Matthew 18:12-14 New King James Version (NKJV)
12 “What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine and go to the mountains to seek the one that is straying? 13 And if he should find it, assuredly, I say to you, he rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray. 14 Even so it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish.

The former were NEVER Children. The latter NEVER stopped being Children.
Yes i know the standard response from people who believe in OSAS.. I have dealt with this topic literally hundereds of times in forums.. Anyone who falls away from Christ never was with Christ in the first place... Thats the standard calvinist response.. But if you are going to fall away from Christ one has to have been with Christ at some stage..

The parable of the sower shows that many receive the Gospel only to later on fall away from the truth..

The Parable and the explanation from Jesus:

Matthew 13: KJV
3 "And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow; {4} And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up: {5} Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth: {6} And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away. {7} And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them: {8} But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold. {9} Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

{10} And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? {11} He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. {12} For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. {13} Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. {14} And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: {15} For this people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. {16} But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear. {17} For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.

{18} ¶ Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower. {19} When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side. {20} But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; {21} Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended. {22} He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful. {23} But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty."
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
8,030
4,293
113
#73
Yes i know the standard response from people who believe in OSAS.. I have dealt with this topic literally hundereds of times in forums.. Anyone who falls away from Christ never was with Christ in the first place... Thats the standard calvinist response.. But if you are going to fall away from Christ one has to have been with Christ at some stage..

The parable of the sower shows that many receive the Gospel only to later on fall away from the truth..

The Parable and the explanation from Jesus:

Matthew 13: KJV
3 "And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow; {4} And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up: {5} Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth: {6} And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away. {7} And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them: {8} But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold. {9} Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

{10} And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? {11} He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. {12} For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. {13} Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. {14} And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: {15} For this people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. {16} But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear. {17} For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.

{18} ¶ Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower. {19} When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side. {20} But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; {21} Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended. {22} He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful. {23} But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty."
Dang it! Said I wasn't gonna debate issues outside the 1st 5! Oh well...

I think your problem is with the wrong JOHN! The verse is from John the Apostle, NOT John Calvin.

As far as the parable of the sower, the ONLY debatable soil is the 3rd soil. I think all agree on number 1 being lost, and number 4 being saved.

Number 2 was NEVER saved. They NEVER had a ROOT. Jesus is the ROOT. They are your 1 John 2:19 people.

Number 3 is interesting. I think they are saved, but are 1 Corinthian 3:15 guys. Arriving in Heaven with NOTHING. No treasures in Heaven, the LEAST in the kingdom, but in the kingdom nonetheless. Could be wrong about this soil though. Not sure. Need to pray on it more.
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
#74
Dang it! Said I wasn't gonna debate issues outside the 1st 5! Oh well...

I think your problem is with the wrong JOHN! The verse is from John the Apostle, NOT John Calvin.

As far as the parable of the sower, the ONLY debatable soil is the 3rd soil. I think all agree on number 1 being lost, and number 4 being saved.

Number 2 was NEVER saved. They NEVER had a ROOT. Jesus is the ROOT. They are your 1 John 2:19 people.

Number 3 is interesting. I think they are saved, but are 1 Corinthian 3:15 guys. Arriving in Heaven with NOTHING. No treasures in Heaven, the LEAST in the kingdom, but in the kingdom nonetheless. Could be wrong about this soil though. Not sure. Need to pray on it more.
agreed on 1 2 and 4 definitely
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
5,888
2,512
113
#75
Dang it! Said I wasn't gonna debate issues outside the 1st 5! Oh well...

I think your problem is with the wrong JOHN! The verse is from John the Apostle, NOT John Calvin.

As far as the parable of the sower, the ONLY debatable soil is the 3rd soil. I think all agree on number 1 being lost, and number 4 being saved.

Number 2 was NEVER saved. They NEVER had a ROOT. Jesus is the ROOT. They are your 1 John 2:19 people.

Number 3 is interesting. I think they are saved, but are 1 Corinthian 3:15 guys. Arriving in Heaven with NOTHING. No treasures in Heaven, the LEAST in the kingdom, but in the kingdom nonetheless. Could be wrong about this soil though. Not sure. Need to pray on it more.
Yeah i was also doing my best to prevent another calvinist debate.. We have no troubles with the top 5 :)

So all's well as far as the core doctrines of salvation are concerned and far as i know..
 
Mar 14, 2011
66,742
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#76
Heard this over and over. No, Israel is still Israel and the church is still the church. The Jews are still God's chosen and He will still fulfill His promises to them. Replacement Theology is false.
Amen, The gentiles were unnatural branches grafted into Christ, not Grafted into Israel
 
Mar 14, 2011
66,742
12,836
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#77
The prodigal son Had to Return to His father and acknowledge his sin.. If the prodigal son had never come back and died in that foreign land he would have never received an inheritance..

Some people abandon the Father and never come back..
The prodigal already recieved his inheritance, he came back to his father with wood hay and straw, (empty) yet he was always his fathers son.
 
Mar 14, 2011
66,742
12,836
113
#78
Yes i know the standard response from people who believe in OSAS.. I have dealt with this topic literally hundereds of times in forums.. Anyone who falls away from Christ never was with Christ in the first place... Thats the standard calvinist response.. But if you are going to fall away from Christ one has to have been with Christ at some stage..

The parable of the sower shows that many receive the Gospel only to later on fall away from the truth..

The Parable and the explanation from Jesus:

Matthew 13: KJV
3 "And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow; {4} And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up: {5} Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth: {6} And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away. {7} And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them: {8} But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold. {9} Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

{10} And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? {11} He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. {12} For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. {13} Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. {14} And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: {15} For this people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. {16} But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear. {17} For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.

{18} ¶ Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower. {19} When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side. {20} But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; {21} Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended. {22} He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful. {23} But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty."
And this has been responded to as many times as you have posted it

You have an omniscient God giving people who do not have true faith, his eternal life, KNOWING he will have to take it back later.

Nope. Not gonna happen.
 
Mar 14, 2011
66,742
12,836
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#79
Dang it! Said I wasn't gonna debate issues outside the 1st 5! Oh well...

I think your problem is with the wrong JOHN! The verse is from John the Apostle, NOT John Calvin.

As far as the parable of the sower, the ONLY debatable soil is the 3rd soil. I think all agree on number 1 being lost, and number 4 being saved.

Number 2 was NEVER saved. They NEVER had a ROOT. Jesus is the ROOT. They are your 1 John 2:19 people.

Number 3 is interesting. I think they are saved, but are 1 Corinthian 3:15 guys. Arriving in Heaven with NOTHING. No treasures in Heaven, the LEAST in the kingdom, but in the kingdom nonetheless. Could be wrong about this soil though. Not sure. Need to pray on it more.
Sorry i have not kept to those either
 
Mar 14, 2011
66,742
12,836
113
#80
Yeah i was also doing my best to prevent another calvinist debate.. We have no troubles with the top 5 :)

So all's well as far as the core doctrines of salvation are concerned and far as i know..
Again, eternal life is not a calvinist doctrine, to be for it is not to argue for calvinism