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Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
6,748
3,558
113
I appreciate your concern but I am baptized in the Holy Spirit - just as everyone is that has been Born Again.

This is why Doctrine is so important. Your understanding of the Baptism of the Spirit will not hold up to Scripture teaching. Scripture does not teach nor is there any term called Baptism of the Spirit, except in Matthew 3:11 and John_1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizes with the Holy Spirit.

In John 1:33 - The Greek word for Baptizes, is a very unique verb. It is used as a Future Perfect Active Indicative. It means, that what Christ will do will have everlasting effect.

No where else in Scripture is the term "Baptizing" and "Spirit" found together as an active event. It is found in looking back at what has happened. Every believer - then and today - are immersed in the Holy Spirit upon Regeneration and Conversion.

1Co_12:13 For by one Spirit were we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

The words marked in red are Past Tense events. Since you are a believer - you have been placed in the body of Christ. For what purpose?

Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as also ye were called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is over all, and through all, and in all.


This Baptism was a corporate event not individual. The Jewish believers were all impowered and immersed in the Spirit at Pentecost and later the Gentiles would receive the same. Thus, to the Jews first then to the Gentiles. These two events covered all Jews and Gentiles. Read and study it for yourself. No solitary individual has ever experienced this according to Scripture. How many were assembled at Pentecost? How many were assembled when the Gentiles received it? Where in Scripture does it say this event took place again or on any solitary individual? The Charismatics have adulterated what is really taught. They rely on their experiences rather than the Word of God. Come out from this error.
Oh dear, you're doing it again..... relying on yourself to understand the scriptures...:(

Just humble yourself and let the Holy Spirit teach you.... God loves you so much, let Him teach you... be like Mary and just sit at His feet...

Read the story in Acts 19 and ask the Holy Spirit to teach you...:love:(y)


Acts 19:1-7

King James Version


1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

7 And all the men were about twelve.

 

BroTan

Active member
Sep 16, 2021
897
161
43
When you made the following quote: "Some people believe they need not works for salvation, the book speaks against that."

I am not sure you understand properly the Biblical concept of "works". Good works are BECAUSE of Salvation NOT for Salvation. Apart from Salvation, all the works of mankind are but filthy rags before a thrice holy God. The Jews had perverted the works of the Law into a belief that keeping the Law and Commandments were to/for Salvation. Lost in the Jewish understanding of the Law, was that mankind could NOT keep the Law. The Law demanded perfection, as it's author was Perfect. Trying to keep the Law and the Commandments will not result in Salvation because Just one slip up, one omission, one sinful stray thought, will result in the penalty of death.

For this reason - those that are being saved must have a Redeemer. One who could satisfy the Law and Commandments on their behalf. The Lamb of God - Jesus Christ, whom all the OT Sacrifices pointed too. Rom_8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God, sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Salvation out of "works" is expressly forbidden in the Scriptures:

Rom 11:5,6 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. But if it is by grace, it is no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace.

Gal_2:16 yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

2Ti 1:8,9 Be not ashamed therefore of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but suffer hardship with the gospel according to the power of God; who saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before times eternal,

However, once saved by God's Grace - it leads to that one doing good works. This is not for Salvation but rather because of it. God loves His Saints and excepts their good works as good. These works, that the Saints will accomplish, were laid down before the foundation of the world.

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God afore prepared that we should walk in them.

As true believers, we desire to do good works but our own sin nature, that is in our flesh, often prevents us from accomplishing good works all the time. However, sin is not the lifestyle of the believer and he/she will accomplish good works:

Tit_2:14 who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a people for his own possession, zealous of good works.

Tit_3:14 And let our people also learn to maintain good works for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful.

Heb_10:24 and let us consider one another to provoke unto love and good works;

There are many reminders and rebukes in the Scriptures about God's people not doing good works or committing sins like the unsaved Gentiles. These are not about obtaining Salvation or losing it but that as Saints ( "Holy ones", in the Greek), because we have been saved, we should not act like ones who are unsaved.

If you have any questions about this subject - just ask. If I can help I will.

To do good works and be fruitful - one must have been "Born Anew", one must then know what God has said, then come to understand what is known and then apply it to their lives. God's Word applied and exercised in ones life is wisdom.

When you made the following quote: "Some people believe they need not works for salvation, the book speaks against that."

I am not sure you understand properly the Biblical concept of "works". Good works are BECAUSE of Salvation NOT for Salvation.

Actually I believe you don't properly understand the Biblical concept of "works. Pauls talk about two different type of works. Let's take a look at one in (Gal. 6:) (v.3) For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself. (v.4) But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.

The book says let every man prove his own work, and if your work is good then you will rejoice in it. (v.5) For every man shall bear his own burden. That’s right; every man must bear his own burden. You mean you thought that all you had to do was confess the name of Jesus and that was it? Brothers and sisters you must work to get salvation. (v.7) Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. God is not to be played with. Whatsoever you plant, that’s what you are going to reap. Be it good works unto eternal life, or evil works unto eternal damnation. The choice is yours, and your works belong to you.

Now let's at a different type of works Paul talks about in Romans 6: And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

This type of works Paul is talking about is referring to the animal Sacrificial law, because this is the works the priest did before Jesus died on the cross, which gave us grace and more. Now let's begin by taking a look at both of the laws and how they worked together. We will see there were two laws given to Moses, they were the commandments and the sacrificial law. Watch how they worked together.

And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a soul shall sin through ignorance against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and shall do against any of them: (Leviticus 4:1-2) The law in the scriptures above is the commandments.

Notice something else very important in these two scriptures. It states, "if a soul shall sin through ignorance." Notice that the scripture did not says on purpose. Why? There is no sacrifice for a sin that is committed willfully. Let's find out what was to be done if a person committed a sin against the Lord unintentionally. Let's skip down to the 27th verse and take a look at the second law (which is the sacrificial law).

And if any one of the common people sin through ignorance, while he doeth somewhat against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and be guilty; Or if his sin, which he hath sinned, come to his knowledge: then he shall bring his offering, a kid of the goats, a female without blemish, for his sin which he hath sinned. And he shall lay his hand upon the head of the sin offering, and slay the sin offering in the place of the burnt offering. And the priest shall take of the blood thereof with his finger, and put it upon the horns of the altar of burnt offering, and shall pour out all the blood thereof at the bottom of the altar. (Leviticus 4:27-30)

When Paul talks about the end of the law or works in regard of the law he's referring to this.
 

BroTan

Active member
Sep 16, 2021
897
161
43
Well, it is good that you have read the Book (Bible) and can quote so many scriptures about Jesus Christ but, do you KNOW HIM personally.... have you encountered His Love for you.... perhaps you can share a testimony....:unsure:

Paul, while he was Saul knew all the scriptures of the Torah yet, he did not know Jesus Christ the Messiah... Jesus has to come to each of us and make Himself KNOWN.... it takes more than the scriptures... we need to encounter Him.... it takes The Word AND The Holy Spirit.

When Jesus Christ truly makes Himself known to us, we also encounter The Father..... so MUCH LOVE....indescribable! Life changing! We can no longer preach or teach the scriptures without saying something about how GREAT HIS LOVE is for us! :love:(y)

So, I ask you again, "Tell me about God's Love for you personally BEFORE you preach to me....." :unsure:
Sorry I don't have a personal testimony I can share on line, but if you have one, you can share. What I can say is that Jesus taught me to share his word the way I do for people to understand and to prepare for his second coming.
We must realize, that it is the keeping of God’s holy laws that separates the righteous from the unrighteous and the Saints from the Sinners. (Titus: 3:8) This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men. You must learn (by the word of God) what God expects of you and maintain his expectations to the end, if you expect to be saved.
 

BroTan

Active member
Sep 16, 2021
897
161
43
You say that in order to love Jesus, you must obey Him.
I say that because I love Him, I obey Him. There's a difference, you know.
After seeking Him for a time, I had an encounter with my Father where He revealed His love for me to me. Complete, unconditional love for me. Eternal love. My natural response was to love Him back. In a few weeks it'll be 28 years since that happened. He has never turned away from me!
"The Lord is my strength and my power...He will never leave me!"
Praise the Lord Jesus mighty name, if you doing those thing that pleases him.
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
6,748
3,558
113
Sorry I don't have a personal testimony I can share on line, but if you have one, you can share. What I can say is that Jesus taught me to share his word the way I do for people to understand and to prepare for his second coming.
We must realize, that it is the keeping of God’s holy laws that separates the righteous from the unrighteous and the Saints from the Sinners. (Titus: 3:8) This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men. You must learn (by the word of God) what God expects of you and maintain his expectations to the end, if you expect to be saved.
Your good works of obedience to God will bring you blessings in this life and treasures in Heaven but, NOT salvation.

Salvation is ONLY in the "works" of Christ for us - we don't get to boast about ANYTHING we have done. ONLY Jesus Christ gets all the glory for our salvation.
 

awelight

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2020
1,556
465
83
68
Oh dear, you're doing it again..... relying on yourself to understand the scriptures...:(

Just humble yourself and let the Holy Spirit teach you.... God loves you so much, let Him teach you... be like Mary and just sit at His feet...

Read the story in Acts 19 and ask the Holy Spirit to teach you...:love:(y)


Acts 19:1-7

King James Version


1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

7 And all the men were about twelve.
The quote from the King James that you posted - proves my point.

"6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

7 And all the men were about twelve."


First - it proves there is NO solitary individual event here - since Scripture clearly says: "and all the men were about twelve." According to the Syriac, Arabic and Ethiopic versions - the word "about" is not in the text. Therefore they make it definite, there were twelve exactly. So as I stated previously, it does not come upon solitary individuals but upon an assembled group or corporate assembly. Historically, these twelve make up the beginning of the church in Ephesus and this is why the Holy Spirit empowered these twelve Gentiles. One should take note of the parallel here, to the twelve Jewish Disciples of Jesus Christ.

The sole purpose of the Holy Spirit, in these verses, is to empower the early church in Ephesus. No where in the Scriptures, is this called the baptism of the Spirit. Except, within the Charismatic movement.

The point that I am making here - is the only way you can KNOW the TRUTH, is to study and be led by the Spirit of God to discern it properly. One of us is in serious error, if not down right Heresy. This should concern you, as it does me. One of us is not who we think we are.

I have known several past Charismatics, whom the Lord brought out of this movement. What they had to say was shocking to me. Men like Benny Hinn and others who propagate the lies of healing and bestowing the baptism of the spirit upon others, are false leaders. He waves his coat and people in the front row all fall down. (Simply ridiculous. All prearranged ahead of time). Pretending to heal others, when the only ones he can do anything for, are the ones subject too psychosomatic healing. All of the more serious cases, are questioned and then sent to a back room by his advance team. They are never even seen by Hinn after that, (I know this to be true because I used to transport these people to and from these events. What he was doing sickened me and what he was doing to the sick and disabled, should be criminal.).

Others in the movement, teach that believers should not try to reason out the truth of what they teach but just except it and let their minds go. Discernment and logic just hold one back. In other words, believe what you see, what you hear and what you feel. Don't study the Scriptures because no one can know the Truth therein anyway. Just let go in the spirit and believe your subjective truth - for there is no real Objective Truth, that we can fully understand.

Yet the Lord says: Love the Lord your God with all your heart MIND and soul. He also says: come and let us reason together, (Isa 1:18). The word "mind" is found 56 times in the New Testament. (KJV).

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
 

awelight

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2020
1,556
465
83
68
Actually I believe you don't properly understand the Biblical concept of "works. Pauls talk about two different type of works. Let's take a look at one in (Gal. 6:) (v.3) For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself. (v.4) But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.

The book says let every man prove his own work, and if your work is good then you will rejoice in it. (v.5) For every man shall bear his own burden. That’s right; every man must bear his own burden. You mean you thought that all you had to do was confess the name of Jesus and that was it? Brothers and sisters you must work to get salvation. (v.7) Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. God is not to be played with. Whatsoever you plant, that’s what you are going to reap. Be it good works unto eternal life, or evil works unto eternal damnation. The choice is yours, and your works belong to you.

Now let's at a different type of works Paul talks about in Romans 6: And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

This type of works Paul is talking about is referring to the animal Sacrificial law, because this is the works the priest did before Jesus died on the cross, which gave us grace and more. Now let's begin by taking a look at both of the laws and how they worked together. We will see there were two laws given to Moses, they were the commandments and the sacrificial law. Watch how they worked together.

And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a soul shall sin through ignorance against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and shall do against any of them: (Leviticus 4:1-2) The law in the scriptures above is the commandments.

Notice something else very important in these two scriptures. It states, "if a soul shall sin through ignorance." Notice that the scripture did not says on purpose. Why? There is no sacrifice for a sin that is committed willfully. Let's find out what was to be done if a person committed a sin against the Lord unintentionally. Let's skip down to the 27th verse and take a look at the second law (which is the sacrificial law).

And if any one of the common people sin through ignorance, while he doeth somewhat against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and be guilty; Or if his sin, which he hath sinned, come to his knowledge: then he shall bring his offering, a kid of the goats, a female without blemish, for his sin which he hath sinned. And he shall lay his hand upon the head of the sin offering, and slay the sin offering in the place of the burnt offering. And the priest shall take of the blood thereof with his finger, and put it upon the horns of the altar of burnt offering, and shall pour out all the blood thereof at the bottom of the altar. (Leviticus 4:27-30)

When Paul talks about the end of the law or works in regard of the law he's referring to this.
I agree. The Sacrificial laws and Ceremonial laws are no more. They were fulfilled perfectly in Jesus Christ. Only God's Holy Law remains. (Ten Commandments). Not unto life but unto death - that we may see sin as exceedingly sinful and later, after we are Glorified, live in them. There are today, for us, many, many commandments from our Lord to us.

You say their is no forgiveness for a "purposeful" sin. If you believe this before one is Regenerated and Converted, then we are all condemned. If you meant after Regeneration and Conversion, you have not thought this completely through. John 8:11 And she said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said, Neither do I condemn thee: go thy way; from henceforth sin no more. The Greek word for "sin", is: αμαρτανε - it is an imperfect present active verb. Taking this into account, this is not some absolute end to sin in her life but means to "stop sinning", as in, living in a life of sin. We would express it as: "From now on, quit continuously sinning."

As a believer, have you ever looked upon something and lusted after it. Sure you have. Have you ever entertained in your mind an inappropriate thought. Sure you have. Have you ever wished you could own that home you just saw or that boat or that car. Sure you have and that is Covetousness. You purposely thought about these things and entertained them in your mind. As our Lord said: Mat 5:28 but I say unto you, that every one that looks on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. Therefore, it does not have to be the completed physical action. If any man says that he has not been guilty of these things -then he is a liar.

1Jn 1:8-10 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

However, I don't think we are on the same page and are talking past each other. Let's bring it back to this, please.

Do you believe "works" are necessary to be saved?
 

Blade

Well-known member
Nov 19, 2019
1,658
588
113
The quote from the King James that you posted - proves my point.

"6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

7 And all the men were about twelve."

First - it proves there is NO solitary individual event here - since Scripture clearly says: "and all the men were about twelve." According to the Syriac, Arabic and Ethiopic versions - the word "about" is not in the text. Therefore they make it definite, there were twelve exactly. So as I stated previously, it does not come upon solitary individuals but upon an assembled group or corporate assembly. Historically, these twelve make up the beginning of the church in Ephesus and this is why the Holy Spirit empowered these twelve Gentiles. One should take note of the parallel here, to the twelve Jewish Disciples of Jesus Christ.

The sole purpose of the Holy Spirit, in these verses, is to empower the early church in Ephesus. No where in the Scriptures, is this called the baptism of the Spirit. Except, within the Charismatic movement.

The point that I am making here - is the only way you can KNOW the TRUTH, is to study and be led by the Spirit of God to discern it properly. One of us is in serious error, if not down right Heresy. This should concern you, as it does me. One of us is not who we think we are.

I have known several past Charismatics, whom the Lord brought out of this movement. What they had to say was shocking to me. Men like Benny Hinn and others who propagate the lies of healing and bestowing the baptism of the spirit upon others, are false leaders. He waves his coat and people in the front row all fall down. (Simply ridiculous. All prearranged ahead of time). Pretending to heal others, when the only ones he can do anything for, are the ones subject too psychosomatic healing. All of the more serious cases, are questioned and then sent to a back room by his advance team. They are never even seen by Hinn after that, (I know this to be true because I used to transport these people to and from these events. What he was doing sickened me and what he was doing to the sick and disabled, should be criminal.).

Others in the movement, teach that believers should not try to reason out the truth of what they teach but just except it and let their minds go. Discernment and logic just hold one back. In other words, believe what you see, what you hear and what you feel. Don't study the Scriptures because no one can know the Truth therein anyway. Just let go in the spirit and believe your subjective truth - for there is no real Objective Truth, that we can fully understand.

Yet the Lord says: Love the Lord your God with all your heart MIND and soul. He also says: come and let us reason together, (Isa 1:18). The word "mind" is found 56 times in the New Testament. (KJV).

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
You are blinded a bit here and its seems by your own personal belief. I have use to done this in the past. When you are allowed once in 61 years to see someones heart. You never look at people again. Then before that to see people through His eyes. See since I was very young always asked to see people through His eyes. He answered that 15 years later. Short is.. I was fully awake and I saw all these people. Didn't see saved or lost but just all these people and He was crying so hard because not one knew how much He loved them. See we love the fact we are always forgiven.. were told to love our enemy...yet Benny and others are not our enemy yet we are in no way loving them as He loves us. Showing your sins your faults to the world is He? Yeah we sure don't share them as we talk about some other preacher huh. Then to forgive 70*7.. and then they never sinned against us.

I don't follow Binny Hinn yet I know of all the same things you have seen and more yet he believes Jesus came in the flesh died on the cross for the worlds sin was buried rose the 3rd day is the only way to the Father. So..yeah He belongs to a GOD! Knowing Jesus PRAISE GOD still does not give us a right to touch His kids. Not talking about all the good they do and still do but only the faults and mistakes? Whos the real believer here? "Do not let unwholesome [foul, profane, worthless, vulgar] words ever come out of your mouth, but only such speech as is good for building up others, according to the need and the occasion, so that it will be a blessing to those who hear [you speak]. "

I remember seeing him on tv once and this blond woman was coming up for prayer. The lord just said...she is not who she says she is. Shes lying. Well we all know now that woman was a reporter. When they came to Jesus He said I AM here they fell backwards to the ground. Sorry but the sweet holy Spirit its going to move His way not ours. If we don't like it don't believe.. you have nothing to worry about..you won't see it. He will never go against your will.

They came for CHRIST. Get over it.. Christ uses who HE wants and those people are NOT the ones we always like or would have as friends. They says YES! This is why they are out front.. being tossed under the buss not by the world but by CHRISTIANS. Sorry they are human just like you and me. They sin fall goof up get stuck in preach some different doctrine at times.. and WHY some don't know how many times they have repented. That does not get shared.

so forgive them speak words of life. If you think they are in error PRAY FOR THEM! You see the faults the sin.. you see know the enemy is after them.. how long have you been praying for them? If it was you would you not want others to be praying to HLEP YOU get back to Christ?

Holy Spirit read LUKE 11:13 and do it..if I offended forgive me
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
6,748
3,558
113
The quote from the King James that you posted - proves my point.

"6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

7 And all the men were about twelve."

First - it proves there is NO solitary individual event here - since Scripture clearly says: "and all the men were about twelve." According to the Syriac, Arabic and Ethiopic versions - the word "about" is not in the text. Therefore they make it definite, there were twelve exactly. So as I stated previously, it does not come upon solitary individuals but upon an assembled group or corporate assembly. Historically, these twelve make up the beginning of the church in Ephesus and this is why the Holy Spirit empowered these twelve Gentiles. One should take note of the parallel here, to the twelve Jewish Disciples of Jesus Christ.

The sole purpose of the Holy Spirit, in these verses, is to empower the early church in Ephesus. No where in the Scriptures, is this called the baptism of the Spirit. Except, within the Charismatic movement.

The point that I am making here - is the only way you can KNOW the TRUTH, is to study and be led by the Spirit of God to discern it properly. One of us is in serious error, if not down right Heresy. This should concern you, as it does me. One of us is not who we think we are.

I have known several past Charismatics, whom the Lord brought out of this movement. What they had to say was shocking to me. Men like Benny Hinn and others who propagate the lies of healing and bestowing the baptism of the spirit upon others, are false leaders. He waves his coat and people in the front row all fall down. (Simply ridiculous. All prearranged ahead of time). Pretending to heal others, when the only ones he can do anything for, are the ones subject too psychosomatic healing. All of the more serious cases, are questioned and then sent to a back room by his advance team. They are never even seen by Hinn after that, (I know this to be true because I used to transport these people to and from these events. What he was doing sickened me and what he was doing to the sick and disabled, should be criminal.).

Others in the movement, teach that believers should not try to reason out the truth of what they teach but just except it and let their minds go. Discernment and logic just hold one back. In other words, believe what you see, what you hear and what you feel. Don't study the Scriptures because no one can know the Truth therein anyway. Just let go in the spirit and believe your subjective truth - for there is no real Objective Truth, that we can fully understand.

Yet the Lord says: Love the Lord your God with all your heart MIND and soul. He also says: come and let us reason together, (Isa 1:18). The word "mind" is found 56 times in the New Testament. (KJV).

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
I was all alone by my bed side when I received the Holy Spirit baptism…I was 25 yrs old and I had been saved at 6 years old.

Present at both was knowing LOVE…I was loved by God and I loved Him too.

Yet, at 25 years old - the empowering was amazing! The scriptures opened and became so easy to read and understand. It was months before I actually felt mad or irritated with anyone… I know the Love I felt… it was not mine…it was God’s Love for me and others.

Don’t resist the Holy Spirit, nothing good comes from resisting the Holy Spirit.
 

shittim

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You always share the most wonderful things!
bless you sister(y):)
 

Lafftur

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Apr 18, 2017
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Yeah, like labeling someone a religious Pharisee. Why do people do that?
I suppose because the religious Pharisee is acting like a religious Pharisee by resisting the Holy Spirit of Truth…:unsure:

They prefer to hold on to their man-made doctrines and traditions…displaying good works on the outside but dead, no life on the inside… They preach “works” and cannot express how wonderful God’s Love is…..

They beat people up with the scriptures creating doubt and confusion of salvation in the hearts of new believers.

The Holy Spirit of God speaks Truth in Love, not condemnation.
 

shittim

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Faith acts, when we hear truth and don't act we miss the mark, good morning Lafftur, Lord bless you and keep you this day and going forward.:):coffee:(y)
 

ResidentAlien

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I suppose because the religious Pharisee is acting like a religious Pharisee by resisting the Holy Spirit of Truth…:unsure:

They prefer to hold on to their man-made doctrines and traditions…displaying good works on the outside but dead, no life on the inside… They preach “works” and cannot express how wonderful God’s Love is…..

They beat people up with the scriptures creating doubt and confusion of salvation in the hearts of new believers.

The Holy Spirit of God speaks Truth in Love, not condemnation.
Wow.
 

Lafftur

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Faith acts, when we hear truth and don't act we miss the mark, good morning Lafftur, Lord bless you and keep you this day and going forward.:):coffee:(y)
Good morning Shittim! :love::coffee:(y)

The Lord bless you and keep you too always! You are a joy! :love:(y)
 

shittim

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Thank you dear sister! You brighten the day for all who are His, as are you.:):coffee:(y)
 

ResidentAlien

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Apr 21, 2021
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I suppose because the religious Pharisee is acting like a religious Pharisee by resisting the Holy Spirit of Truth…:unsure:

They prefer to hold on to their man-made doctrines and traditions…displaying good works on the outside but dead, no life on the inside… They preach “works” and cannot express how wonderful God’s Love is…..

They beat people up with the scriptures creating doubt and confusion of salvation in the hearts of new believers.

The Holy Spirit of God speaks Truth in Love, not condemnation.
And they were hypocrites, right?
 

awelight

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You are blinded a bit here and its seems by your own personal belief. I have use to done this in the past. When you are allowed once in 61 years to see someones heart. You never look at people again. Then before that to see people through His eyes. See since I was very young always asked to see people through His eyes. He answered that 15 years later. Short is.. I was fully awake and I saw all these people. Didn't see saved or lost but just all these people and He was crying so hard because not one knew how much He loved them. See we love the fact we are always forgiven.. were told to love our enemy...yet Benny and others are not our enemy yet we are in no way loving them as He loves us. Showing your sins your faults to the world is He? Yeah we sure don't share them as we talk about some other preacher huh. Then to forgive 70*7.. and then they never sinned against us.

I don't follow Binny Hinn yet I know of all the same things you have seen and more yet he believes Jesus came in the flesh died on the cross for the worlds sin was buried rose the 3rd day is the only way to the Father. So..yeah He belongs to a GOD! Knowing Jesus PRAISE GOD still does not give us a right to touch His kids. Not talking about all the good they do and still do but only the faults and mistakes? Whos the real believer here? "Do not let unwholesome [foul, profane, worthless, vulgar] words ever come out of your mouth, but only such speech as is good for building up others, according to the need and the occasion, so that it will be a blessing to those who hear [you speak]. "

I remember seeing him on tv once and this blond woman was coming up for prayer. The lord just said...she is not who she says she is. Shes lying. Well we all know now that woman was a reporter. When they came to Jesus He said I AM here they fell backwards to the ground. Sorry but the sweet holy Spirit its going to move His way not ours. If we don't like it don't believe.. you have nothing to worry about..you won't see it. He will never go against your will.

They came for CHRIST. Get over it.. Christ uses who HE wants and those people are NOT the ones we always like or would have as friends. They says YES! This is why they are out front.. being tossed under the buss not by the world but by CHRISTIANS. Sorry they are human just like you and me. They sin fall goof up get stuck in preach some different doctrine at times.. and WHY some don't know how many times they have repented. That does not get shared.

so forgive them speak words of life. If you think they are in error PRAY FOR THEM! You see the faults the sin.. you see know the enemy is after them.. how long have you been praying for them? If it was you would you not want others to be praying to HLEP YOU get back to Christ?

Holy Spirit read LUKE 11:13 and do it..if I offended forgive me
No offense taken and thanks for your reply.

I hate no one or thing. Except that which God hates:

Psa_26:5 I hate the assembly of evil-doers, And will not sit with the wicked.
Psa_31:6 I hate them that regard lying vanities; But I trust in Jehovah.
Psa_101:3 I will set no base thing before mine eyes: I hate the work of them that turn aside; It shall not cleave unto me.
Psa_139:21 Do not I hate them, O Jehovah, that hate thee? And am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee?


This from the man who God said: Was a man after His own heart. In Revelation our Lord said this to the assembly in Ephesus:

Rev_2:6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the works of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

Perchance one day, the Lord might save an evildoer, such as Benny Hinn. After all He saved a sinful wretch like me.

But until our Lord comes - I will vehemently defend the Doctrines of Grace. Just as God sent Isaiah, even though he was told they would not listen to him, every believer has an obligation to speak against the heretics of this age.