It is finished.

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ElizabethPeter

Guest
#21
#21
Believing is to have faith. Works, is to offer something of this world to God. Like, your money, for instance, or the fact that you do good onto others. faith and belief are completely different things. It's believing when no one else does. Having faith, is to believe in the unseen, and then, God will make you see.
 
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ElizabethPeter

Guest
#22
#22
Works and faith are completely two different things altogether. Faith is by believing without doing anything. You don't have to give God something. You don't have to work for anything. All you have to do is have faith, and in return, God gives you the gift of salvation. Eternal life. Works, are by offering God something that you do. But the thing that the world doesn't know is that, you can't offer God anything in this world for your own salvation. That's the sole reason why Christ came. Christ became our redemption. All that we have to do is come before God, offering Christ. Not our works, not our deeds. None of that. If our works could save us, tell me, why did Christ die? Why was He baptized? There's no use for any of that if we could save ourselves. Religion=works. Faith=Christianity. And until you learn the difference, salvation is not for you.
 
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starfield

Senior Member
#23
Jun 13, 2009
3,393
58
48
#23
svedbygrace said:
Is faith or believing an act of man ? Yes or no..
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According to John 3:16, Acts 16:31, Romans 10:9-10, etc., it is. The bible clearly teaches that there is a divine act (God's grace) and human act (faith and repentance) involved in salvation, and the fact that man has to do something (repent and believe) does not mean salvation is meritorious because even as man was dead in sin and an enemy of God, the merciful God provided a way of salvation - that's the undeserved favour and love we speak of. The 'works' that don't save are self-righteousness (Rom 10:3) or anything done apart from grace and humility. The law does not save either rather it's a spiritual mirror that reveals to man their sinful state while God's grace which is the shed blood on Calvary saves and sustains, but it's the sinner that comes before God in humility and contrition as a result of the Holy Spirit's call and benefits from Christ's finished work (Col 2:14). Nowhere in the bible does it say God repents and believes for man.
How does man access God's saving grace? Romans 5:1-2 "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God".


(If this is not hyper-Calvinism you are parroting, I don't know what it is).:confused:

 
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ElizabethPeter

Guest
#24
#24
God doesn't repent for man. We repent for ourselves. My point here is that people try to bring their works to God. But God gave us Christ. Instead of bringing our works before Him, He wants us to bring Christ before Him. By bringing our works, we're trying to save ourselves indirectly without us even realizing it. And repentance, now that's something many don't know how to do anymore. We call ourselves a "Christian" for a reason. Christ should be the basis of our faith. Don't try to change that by bringing your own works into the picture.
 
PS

PS

Senior Member
#25
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
#25
ElizabethPeter said:
God doesn't repent for man. We repent for ourselves. My point here is that people try to bring their works to God. But God gave us Christ. Instead of bringing our works before Him, He wants us to bring Christ before Him. By bringing our works, we're trying to save ourselves indirectly without us even realizing it. And repentance, now that's something many don't know how to do anymore. We call ourselves a "Christian" for a reason. Christ should be the basis of our faith. Don't try to change that by bringing your own works into the picture.
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Would you say that God wants us to bring ourselves (not works) "just as we are?"
 
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ElizabethPeter

Guest
#26
#26
PS said:
Would you say that God wants us to bring ourselves, "just as we are?"
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Yes! That's my point exactly. God himself says so. You can't change yourself. But God, can change you.
Read 1 John 1:8-10.

You can't change who you are. You can't tell yourself that you're not a sinner. That would make God a liar. But still, God wants us. A sinner. He can change that. The flesh will fail, but it's the Spirit that can prosper.
 
PS

PS

Senior Member
#27
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
#27
"Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all everywhere should repent." Acts 17:30

I wonder if some denominations teach that repentance is 'works' and therefore they cannot repent of their sins?

It would be dreadful if they do!
 
Cobus

Cobus

Banned
#28
Feb 17, 2010
3,620
27
0
#28
Elizabeth you are young and so I will be real gentle...
One the one hand you say it is finished, and on the other you say God can change us.... Now what is it, is it finished or is He still at work?

What was finished on the cross? All God has to d oto save you?
What did Jesus finish on the cross? If Jesus finished ALL one the cross, why did he make the Emmaus men KNOW him only AFTER he was on the cross? Why did He open scripture for them? Why did Jesus say... there are still many things He wants to teach His men, but they CANNOT BEAR IT YET? So when will they be able to bear ALL TRUTH? Before or AFTER the cross?

Why could God's men ONLY GO OUT IN THE SPIRIT AFTER the cross, if Jesus completed ALL ON THE CROSS? Nope there are MANY things people do not understnd, and one of the is.... IT IS DONE!!! Not ALL IS DONE.... IT IS DONE... what is the IT Jesus talked about?

Tip Jesus told the EMMAUS men what he had to do to have IT done.... Jesus had to DIE to ENTER into the Glory of being the ONE THAT WILL SAVE.... Actually the workd of Jesus SAVIOUR only STARTED at the cross, but the work of the LAMB ended on the cross.


God did not leave Christ DEAD, like all the previous blood sacrifices... that could do NOTHING... THis Sacrifice of HIS LAMB, has MANY tings to follow the cross... Like RESURRECTION... QUICKENING OF SPIRIT,.... REBIRTH..... HOLINESS..... FILLED WITH SPIRIT....


Just one little place I would like to show you.... Jesus said for the men to WAIT in Jerusalem.... What did they wait for? And who did to them what they waited for? If it were finished at the cross, NO MAN WILL GO TO HEAVEN!!! NOT ONE! The cross only gets us clean.... And the cross only does it ONCE!!!!! If you get dirty AFTER you tasted the Holy Spirit and was partaker in God's righteousness,,,, and you sin again... NOT EVEN THE CROSS CAN SAVE YOU THEN...

This thing that we will always sin.... Show me a verse that says, YOU WILL ALWAYS SIN!!!

There is none...

This is the Gospel of God...
Can God make you holy and perfect? Yes HE CAN
Does God want you to be holy and perfect here on earth? YES HE DOES!
What will stop God from doing that? NOTHING!

That is how simple the Gospel and GOOD NEWS is... God wants His children to be in Him, and Him in them.. AND THAT IS WHAT HE DOES.
 
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SeekingJC

Guest
#29
#29
Cobus said:
Elizabeth you are young and so I will be real gentle...
One the one hand you say it is finished, and on the other you say God can change us.... Now what is it, is it finished or is He still at work?

What was finished on the cross? All God has to d oto save you?
What did Jesus finish on the cross? If Jesus finished ALL one the cross, why did he make the Emmaus men KNOW him only AFTER he was on the cross? Why did He open scripture for them? Why did Jesus say... there are still many things He wants to teach His men, but they CANNOT BEAR IT YET? So when will they be able to bear ALL TRUTH? Before or AFTER the cross?

Why could God's men ONLY GO OUT IN THE SPIRIT AFTER the cross, if Jesus completed ALL ON THE CROSS? Nope there are MANY things people do not understnd, and one of the is.... IT IS DONE!!! Not ALL IS DONE.... IT IS DONE... what is the IT Jesus talked about?

Tip Jesus told the EMMAUS men what he had to do to have IT done.... Jesus had to DIE to ENTER into the Glory of being the ONE THAT WILL SAVE.... Actually the workd of Jesus SAVIOUR only STARTED at the cross, but the work of the LAMB ended on the cross.


God did not leave Christ DEAD, like all the previous blood sacrifices... that could do NOTHING... THis Sacrifice of HIS LAMB, has MANY tings to follow the cross... Like RESURRECTION... QUICKENING OF SPIRIT,.... REBIRTH..... HOLINESS..... FILLED WITH SPIRIT....


Just one little place I would like to show you.... Jesus said for the men to WAIT in Jerusalem.... What did they wait for? And who did to them what they waited for? If it were finished at the cross, NO MAN WILL GO TO HEAVEN!!! NOT ONE! The cross only gets us clean.... And the cross only does it ONCE!!!!! If you get dirty AFTER you tasted the Holy Spirit and was partaker in God's righteousness,,,, and you sin again... NOT EVEN THE CROSS CAN SAVE YOU THEN...

This thing that we will always sin.... Show me a verse that says, YOU WILL ALWAYS SIN!!!

There is none...

This is the Gospel of God...
Can God make you holy and perfect? Yes HE CAN
Does God want you to be holy and perfect here on earth? YES HE DOES!
What will stop God from doing that? NOTHING!

That is how simple the Gospel and GOOD NEWS is... God wants His children to be in Him, and Him in them.. AND THAT IS WHAT HE DOES.
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So does this mean you never sin? Or are we all going to hell? Because I can guarantee saved or no we ALL sin because we are all humans and fallible. Being saved and washed does not make you sinless it makes you forgiven.

I'm sorry I disagree with your post.

Ps as to your othe point you can't have the Pentecost without the Passover that's why the men had to wait.
 
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ElizabethPeter

Guest
#30
#30
Cobus said:
Elizabeth you are young and so I will be real gentle...
One the one hand you say it is finished, and on the other you say God can change us.... Now what is it, is it finished or is He still at work?

What was finished on the cross? All God has to d oto save you?
What did Jesus finish on the cross? If Jesus finished ALL one the cross, why did he make the Emmaus men KNOW him only AFTER he was on the cross? Why did He open scripture for them? Why did Jesus say... there are still many things He wants to teach His men, but they CANNOT BEAR IT YET? So when will they be able to bear ALL TRUTH? Before or AFTER the cross?

Why could God's men ONLY GO OUT IN THE SPIRIT AFTER the cross, if Jesus completed ALL ON THE CROSS? Nope there are MANY things people do not understnd, and one of the is.... IT IS DONE!!! Not ALL IS DONE.... IT IS DONE... what is the IT Jesus talked about?

Tip Jesus told the EMMAUS men what he had to do to have IT done.... Jesus had to DIE to ENTER into the Glory of being the ONE THAT WILL SAVE.... Actually the workd of Jesus SAVIOUR only STARTED at the cross, but the work of the LAMB ended on the cross.


God did not leave Christ DEAD, like all the previous blood sacrifices... that could do NOTHING... THis Sacrifice of HIS LAMB, has MANY tings to follow the cross... Like RESURRECTION... QUICKENING OF SPIRIT,.... REBIRTH..... HOLINESS..... FILLED WITH SPIRIT....


Just one little place I would like to show you.... Jesus said for the men to WAIT in Jerusalem.... What did they wait for? And who did to them what they waited for? If it were finished at the cross, NO MAN WILL GO TO HEAVEN!!! NOT ONE! The cross only gets us clean.... And the cross only does it ONCE!!!!! If you get dirty AFTER you tasted the Holy Spirit and was partaker in God's righteousness,,,, and you sin again... NOT EVEN THE CROSS CAN SAVE YOU THEN...

This thing that we will always sin.... Show me a verse that says, YOU WILL ALWAYS SIN!!!

There is none...

This is the Gospel of God...
Can God make you holy and perfect? Yes HE CAN
Does God want you to be holy and perfect here on earth? YES HE DOES!
What will stop God from doing that? NOTHING!

That is how simple the Gospel and GOOD NEWS is... God wants His children to be in Him, and Him in them.. AND THAT IS WHAT HE DOES.
Click to expand...

I didn't know that there was an age limit in the preaching of God's word. I may be young, but don't judge me. You'll only be judging God. He works through me now.
Sin was finished. Sin ended. You see, it was sin that was stopping us from reconciling with God. But it's not sin that determines where we go. We all deserve Hell. I know I did. But that's why Christ came. If you really believe in Christ's finished work, and still doubt or think twice as to where you're going, then you don't really believe. You can fool yourself. You can fool others too. But you can't fool God.

And God cleanses. What you don't get is that He doesn't cleanse the flesh. He cleanses the Spirit. "Give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar. Give to God, what belongs to God". Our flesh belongs to the world. Our spirit doesn't. Stop trying to put words into God's mouth. Are you trying to tell me that no one can enter Heaven? No offence, but what a load of bull. Who's God? You? I don't think so. God says that we can enter Heaven. Why are you speaking otherwise? Unless you're perfect, don't judge others.

But remember this. All that Christ is becomes us once we have faith in His absolute finished work and receive the Holy Spirit. That includes being sinless and righteous. I'll declare it to the world. I still sin, yet, I'm sinless. And don't tell me to make up my mind. Am I a sinner, or am I sinless? In the flesh, I still sin. But, in my spirit, I'm sinless and righteous. God doesn't look at my flesh. He looks at my heart. I may be young, but God works through me. Don't judge me by my age.
 
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svedbygrace

Banned
#31
Jan 21, 2013
2,004
23
0
#31
starfield

According to John 3:16, Acts 16:31, Romans 10:9-10, etc., it is.
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Then you are promoting Salvation by works, by the act of man.
 
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svedbygrace

Banned
#32
Jan 21, 2013
2,004
23
0
#32
elizabeth

Faith is by believing without doing anything.
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Thats false, believing is doing something to be saved. If believing is not a doing something, why did Paul answer the Jailor after being asked Acts 16:30

30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

And Paul replied Vs 31

31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Thats a command to do something in the greek, its an imperative. So that contradicts your statememt !
 
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ElizabethPeter

Guest
#33
#33
Works can't save you, let alone give you salvation. Salvation was given to us freely. Whether you choose to accept it, or not, is up to you. Christ did it all. We have to believe. "Christ did it all". Nothing we do can save us. We can try to give our works, but it's just a waste of time. It's never going to work.
 
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ElizabethPeter

Guest
#34
#34
Belief is to have faith, in Christ. Now works on the other hand are your own. Your offering God something that YOU did. God doesn't want that. Does this make any sense?
 
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svedbygrace

Banned
#35
Jan 21, 2013
2,004
23
0
#35
PS said:
The word used in the Bible (works G2041 er'-gon) means to toil (as an effort or occupation); by implication a physical act: - deed, doing, labour, work.

What the Bible is saying is that we are not saved by our works (labour). In modern parlance it is saying our works don't earn us any brownie points.

Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost (KJV)

(We are saved not by service but to serve others.)
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I gave you the definition of what a work is by the word the Holy Spirit inspired the writers to use, now you can ignore it all you want !
 
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ElizabethPeter

Guest
#36
#36
[SUP]"5 [/SUP]He saved us, not because of any works of righteousness that we had done, but because of His own pity and mercy, by [the] cleansing [bath] of the new birth (regeneration) and renewing of the Holy Spirit,"

That was Titus 3:5. I really don't understand your point here. He saved us not because of works. That's what I'm saying.
 
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svedbygrace

Banned
#37
Jan 21, 2013
2,004
23
0
#37
ElizabethPeter said:
[SUP]"5 [/SUP]He saved us, not because of any works of righteousness that we had done, but because of His own pity and mercy, by [the] cleansing [bath] of the new birth (regeneration) and renewing of the Holy Spirit,"

That was Titus 3:5. I really don't understand your point here. He saved us not because of works. That's what I'm saying.
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Believing is a work of righteousness that is done ! Believing is something man does, an act of his, do you deny that ?
 
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svedbygrace

Banned
#38
Jan 21, 2013
2,004
23
0
#38
elizabeth

Whether you choose to accept it, or not, is up to you.
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Then salvation is up to man, not what Christ did for him, correct ? Yes or NO !
 
PS

PS

Senior Member
#39
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
#39
svedbygrace said:
I gave you the definition of what a work is by the word the Holy Spirit inspired the writers to use, now you can ignore it all you want !
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You gave me a definition of physical work but having faith in God and believing in Him is not physical work.

Remember we are talking about the spiritual.
 
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ElizabethPeter

Guest
#40
#40
I'm man. I agree. Stop trying to twist words. Believing is having faith in the unseen. That will cause us to see. Believing has nothing to do with works. You can keep trying to tell yourself it is. But, it's not. Not in the eyes of God. You're man. I'm man. But, God's God.

Salvation is not up to man. The choice is. We can choose if we want salvation. But it was given to all man. God gave us the free will to choose. Christ finished work=Salvation, which was given to ALL man. You just have to decided whether you want it, or not.
 
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