It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

[Kerry]

The reason why God fearing, Jesus loving, Holy Spirit filled people sin, is because they have taken the eyes of faith off the work of the cross and placed it on what they are doing. It's called self righteousness and God will not, cannot honor it. The thing that causes us to not want to sin is the Holy Spirit, we received by faith in what Jesus did at the cross. We asked God to forgive us and asked Jesus to be the Lord of our life and the Holy Spirit unplugged the sin nature within us. We no longer wanted to do the things we did before.

But, then comes, well if your really saved you must be baptized and if your really saved you would be at church every time the doors open, if your really saved you would spend 4 hours a day in prayer and another 4 in the bible.

It slowly changes from the cross to what I do. Then we find ourselves bound by sin and we hate it and want to stop. But, we can't because were bound by it. Then we here some doctrine that says we are saved no matter what and it makes since. Hey I'm saved, but I keep doing this sinful thing and this guy says it's okay.

But it is a lie, continued sin can cause you to lose your salvation. Unrepentant sin will make you sick and ultimately die. The wages of sin is death the first and the second.

The only way to be free and get delivered is take your faith off what you are doing and put it back on the cross of christ and it will come. I can't say when, but it will come.

God became a man and was tempted like we are yet He sinned not and gave Himself on the cross out of love for you and me and nothing can top that and the Father will accept nothing but that.

In the love of Christ
Kerry

 

[Atwood]

Eternal Non-Shame

Behold, I lay in Zion a chief corner stone, elect, precious:
And he who believes on him shall not be put to shame.

Now why is that?

Is it possible that the Lord Jesus is a real Savior?

Thou shalt call His name Jesus,
For He shall save His people from their sins.

He does live up to His name!

No one can successfully challenge Him saying,
"Look at your savees, are you not ashamed to be called their Savior?
What kind of saving is that?"


For it became him, for whom are all things, and through whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the author of their salvation perfect through sufferings. For both he that sanctifieth and they that are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren, saying,
I will declare thy name unto my brethren,
In the midst of the congregation will I sing thy praise.


And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold, I and the children whom God has given me.

In getting to glory (those streets of gold & all) He is the bringer,
the believer is the bringee.
Those who are working, building a Tower of Babel, will be greatly disappointed, for salvation is a free gift of grace.
He does a complete job of saving. He saves to the uttermost.
Who will lay any charge vs God's elect?
The good word that the Lord Jesus begins in the believer will be complete by Him.
The gifts & the calling of the Lord are irrevocable.

 

[newbirth]

Re: Eternal Non-Shame

Behold, I lay in Zion a chief corner stone, elect, precious:
And he who believes on him shall not be put to shame.

Now why is that?

Is it possible that the Lord Jesus is a real Savior?

Thou shalt call His name Jesus,
For He shall save His people from their sins.

He does live up to His name!

No one can successfully challenge Him saying,
"Look at your savees, are you not ashamed to be called their Savior?
What kind of saving is that?"


For it became him, for whom are all things, and through whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the author of their salvation perfect through sufferings. For both he that sanctifieth and they that are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren, saying,
I will declare thy name unto my brethren,
In the midst of the congregation will I sing thy praise.


And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold, I and the children whom God has given me.

In getting to glory (those streets of gold & all) He is the bringer,
the believer is the bringee.
Those who are working, building a Tower of Babel, will be greatly disappointed, for salvation is a free gift of grace.
He does a complete job of saving. He saves to the uttermost.
Who will lay any charge vs God's elect?
The good word that the Lord Jesus begins in the believer will be complete by Him.
The gifts & the calling of the Lord are irrevocable.

exactly you are now getting the point so you agree with this...[SUP]11 [/SUP]For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

[SUP]12 [/SUP]Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

[SUP]13 [/SUP]Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

 

[Kerry]

All that is true, as long as we in the boat. But, we tend to build our own boat and it leads to destruction.

 

[Atwood]

Peter Ends 1 Peter Assuring of Eternal Security

And the God of all grace, who called you unto his eternal glory in Christ, after that ye have suffered a little while, shall himself perfect, establish, strengthen you. To him be the dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

As Rom 8 says with its gold chain reaction, he who is called ends up glorified.

foreknew >forordained >called >justified >glorified.

This chain reaction is more certain than that iceberg would lead to the Titanic sinking. Once you hit the iceberg of God's grace, you are a goner.

The believer doesn't play Russian Roulette on damnation. There are no bullets in the damnation gun. The Lord declares righteous, who is he who condemns?
(We have a few on this thread, BTW. But their efforts are in vain. You see Christ paid for our sins, and we may trust in that.)

 

[Kerry]

okay enough good nite

 

[Atwood]

All that is true, as long as we in the boat. But, we tend to build our own boat and it leads to destruction.

If the Lord Jesus is sleeping in your boat, what should you do?

 

[Atwood]

The reason why God fearing, Jesus loving, Holy Spirit filled people sin, is because they have taken the eyes of faith off the work of the cross and placed it on what they are doing. It's called self righteousness and God will not, cannot honor it. The thing that causes us to not want to sin is the Holy Spirit, we received by faith in what Jesus did at the cross. We asked God to forgive us and asked Jesus to be the Lord of our life and the Holy Spirit unplugged the sin nature within us. We no longer wanted to do the things we did before.

A great start to the post, Kerry, but then:

But, then comes, well if your really saved you must be baptized and if your really saved you would be at church every time the doors open, if your really saved you would spend 4 hours a day in prayer and another 4 in the bible.

For freedom did Christ set us free: stand fast therefore, and be not entangled again in a yoke of bondage.


Is some legalistic pseudo-pastor putting you in bondage to his legalisms? The Bible says not to forsake the assembly, but does not tell Christians to attend every meeting or live at the church, talk about wearing out the saints. I realize that a performer wants people to watch him perform, for crying outloud. And there are wolves that want to do worse than shear sheep; they would eat them alive.

Christianity is about loving God and neighbor, not satisfying the greed of men.
The Bible indeed tells us to pray without ceasing; that is, to live life in constant conversation with the Lord, practicing the presence of Christ. And we are told to meditate in God's Word day & night. But beware of making up some impossible legalistic standards foreign to God's word. Come unto Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden . . . & I will give you rest. For my yoke is easy, and my burden light.

Hey I'm saved, but I keep doing this sinful thing and this guy says it's okay.

Kerry, stop making things up. Probably every Christian alive sins every day, as James says, in many things we all stumble. OSS doesn't imply that sin is OK. And I guarantee you that denying eternal security won't help you not to sin, for that is a failure to trust the Savior who is the only one who can save from sin. "Doing this sinful thing." I hope you don't refer to some imaginary law not in the Bible that you violate. Gal 2:20-21 and Gal 5:16 and following verses give a key to victory. But you can't employ those tactics without being born again, trusting Christ with your eternal destiny.

On whom is your focus? Are you obsessed with yourself and your sins? You can't drive very far staring at your feet. And what the lie is that you lose salvation -- that is a denial of salvation. And it is a denial of the Savior. And there is not one verse in the Bible that says that sin causes anyone to lose salvation. What scripture teaches is that when you trust Christ you get saved from sin. If sinning every day made someone lose salvation, nobody would be saved. And then the Lord Jesus would not have included "forgive us our debts" in His model prayer.

The only way to be free and get delivered is take your faith off what you are doing and put it back on the cross of christ

Be sure you don't put your faith in your self-righteous ability to stop sinning.

God became a man and was tempted like we are yet He sinned not and gave Himself on the cross out of love for you and me and nothing can top that and the Father will accept nothing but that.

Kerry you are vacillating back & forth. Which way will it be? Would meditating on Galatians help you?

 

[Atwood]

Re: Eternal Security Goes Along w/ Salvation by Faith, Not Works

"For by grace you have been saved through faith . . . not of works" lest NewBirth should boast.

I just reposted to Cassian's claim as to how I just had a few verses. So I'm not going to repeat all that, just post some for you also:

Philip 3:8-9
Yea verily, and I count all things to be loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but refuse, that I may gain Christ, and be found in him, not having a righteousness of mine own, even that which is of the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith:

Col 2:6
As therefore ye received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in him, 7 rooted and builded up in him, and established in your faith, even as ye were taught, abounding in thanksgiving.

2 Tim 3:15b
the sacred writings which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
Titus 1:4
to Titus, my true child after a common faith: Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Saviour.

Heb 3:19ff
And we see that they were not able to enter in because of unbelief. Let us fear therefore, lest haply, a promise being left of entering into his rest, any one of you should seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed we have had good tidings preached unto us, even as also they: but the word of hearing did not profit them, because it was not united by faith with them that heard. For we who have believed do enter into that rest;

Heb 10:39
But we are not of them that shrink back unto perdition; but of them that have faith unto the saving of the soul.

Heb 11:7

By faith Noah, being warned of God concerning things not seen as yet, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; through which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.

1 Pet 1:3ff

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 6Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, ye have been put to grief in manifold trials, 7 that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold that perisheth though it is proved by fire, may be found unto praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ:8 whom not having seen ye love; on whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice greatly with joy unspeakable and full of glory: 9 receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

1 John 5:4-5

4 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that hath overcome the world, even our faith. 5 And who is he that overcometh the world, but he thatbelieves that Jesus is the Son of God?

And not a single text supports "eternal security". In fact, all of them deny it since they all have conditions attached to them. Nothing about faith ONLY,

Should your post be called delusion or fabrication, Cassian? Over & over salvation is offered with only one condition put on man, faith or believing ONLY. These passages were not posted to prove eternal security, but salvation by faith. So you attack a straw man here. I have posted many verses to prove eternal security. And none of those verses deny it. You are making things up which anyone can see just by looking at those passages.

It is true that salvation by faith and eternal security are sister doctrines.


"And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is He Who calls you, Who will also do it.

 

[Atwood]

Re: Eternal Security & Incorruptible Seed 1 Peter 1

Thou shalt call His name YHWH salvation,
for He shall save His people from their sins.

So you are either incapable of sin or you can sin and its of no consequence?[/QUOTE]

Thou shalt call His name YHWH salvation,
for He shall save His people from their sins.

 

[Atwood]

We are justified by faith ( believe in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior ) and therefor we do as He said for us to do ( the works that follow ). We do not boost about those works, nor do we do them to earn our way to heaven. We do them out of love and honor for our Lord.

Well said, Kenneth

If you however after believing in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior return back to the way of the world, and produce nothing but bad works you will fall to judgment of hell fire as the scriptures say.

No, they do not say that, and you are making things up. You quote no scripture at all.
You are postulating that a saved person isn't saved -- an absurdity.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

Plus if for some tribulation in your life occurs that causes you to deny Christ you fall to judgment of hell fire.

So Peter went to Hell fire.

Matthew 25 also gives another form of denying Jesus besides the traditional not believing in Him that the gospel has been watered down to, and that is not helping others ( good works ). It shows in that chapter those who were cast away for not doing good works.

Every sinner who goes to the Lake of Fire goes there for sin, including failing to love God & neighbor. Mat 25 is not about "not helping others." There are 3 groups mentioned. The sheep & the goats are judged for how they treated Christ's brethren (3rd group, not "others") during the Great Tribulation. If you want to discuss salvation, instead of judgment, choose a passage on salvation, which Mat 25 is not. The issue in Mat 25 is who gets to enter the Millennial Kingdom. Men are judged for their works, believers in the Church are judged at the Bema Judgment Seat of Christ, for which see 1 & 2 Corinthians and the references to crowns in the NT. Believers get rewards or lose them, nothing about going to Hell. Unbelievers are judged at the Great White Throne Judgment in Revelation.

All our sins were judged on Christ at the cross. I'll accept that judgment; my sins have been paid for at such great cost so that salvation could be free to me.

Do you really think that the Lord is some monster who would roast alive his own children forever and ever, instead of correcting them in love? Do you suppose that the Lord Jesus is an incompetent Savior who doesn't save to the uttermost? Do you really think that He who began a good work in us will not complete it? Then the Lord would be a liar, but He is not. He who began a good work in you will complete it -- if He began it.

But if you haven't trusted Christ with your eternal destiny, but supposed He just gives you a chance at eternal life, you are not trusting Him -- and then that is an immediate need that you have. Those who do not trust Him, get no eternal life.

God commends His own love for us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

 

[Atwood]

Re: Both Prophet Paul & Prophet Peter Taught Eternal Security

Originally Posted by Atwood

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, ye have been put to grief in manifold trials, that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold that perisheth though it is proved by fire, may be found unto praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ: whom not having seen ye love; on whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice greatly with joy unspeakable and full of glory: receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. - 1 Pet 1

Now don't come forth with the nonsense about groups, as if there were group faith that resulted in group salvation.

Sure Peter is talkig about a group: Christian. He refers them as "elect" in verse 2.
In verse 2, who have been begotten? Christians
Who has an incorruptible inheritance in heaven? Christians
Who are kept by God through faith? Christians


Obviously Peter is talking to, referring Christians. None of what Peter said in v2 refers to an individual outside of the group Christian.
[/SIZE][/FONT]

More group nonsense. The word "group" doesn't occur, Seabass. Categorical statement are made about a category of persons indeed.

I am glad that you admit that Christians have been begotten, have incorruptible inheritance in heaven, and are kept by God through faith.

What is nonsense is the suggestion that if Christians have an incorruptible inheritance and are kept by God, that this does not imply that individual Christians have an incorruptible inheritance and are kept by God.

Logic, Seabass:

Given: All Christians have an incorruptible inheritance.
Given: An individual Christian is a Christian.
Therefore: An individual Christian has an incorruptible inheritance.

Give up nonsense & believe God's Word.

 

[Atwood]

By their fruits, you will know the regenerate heirs of eternal life and not by their doctrinal orthodoxy.

That looks the logical fallacy of denying an antecedent. But there is the fruit of the lips. What men say is fruit also. John tells us that denial that Jesus Christ that Jesus has come in the flesh disqualifies fellowship with them. See 2 JOhn.

Faith is a grace given by God. Yet, men and women are responsible for the graces that have been given to them.

I don't know of scripture that says that saving faith is a grace, as if there were many graces of which faith is one. Saved by grace means we don't deserve it. If faith comes by grace, then that would mean that men don't believe until the Lord does something to them to cause them to believe.

Good question is raised by "responsibility." Some would argue that grace never incurs a debt, but I am not convinced of that. Despising grace would be ingratitude.

On the imputation of Adam's sin, I think the most important passage is Romans 5.

There are arguments that favor innocence until an age of accountability.

Nothing in the Bible about such innocence. Moral accountability age? That is doubtful to me, though in the Wilderness the children were not blamed for the parents rejecting the promised land at Kadesh Barnea.

Can the unborn be saved who die in the womb?
Can infants be saved?
Can the mentally retarded by saved?
Can the ignorant be saved who don't understand doctrinal orthodoxy?
Where does the Bible teach "educational regeneration" (as in you are saved when you have been educated in orthodox doctrine and believe the orthodox doctrine)? What new doctrine is this?

I am not sure I want to get into these things on this thread.
As to unborn, John the Baptist was apparently saved before birth.
If so, He must have had some way to trust in YHWH in the womb. Trust doesn't necessarily improve with IQ. In fact faith is illustrated by the faith of a child.

Educational regeneration? Never heard of it; sounds like a derisive term. There may be this progression/retrogression in some historical circumstance, like in New England:
belief changes: justification by faith >justification by signing a doctrinal statement >Arminianism >Humanism

 

[nl]

...

Educational regeneration? Never heard of it; sounds like a derisive term. There may be this progression/retrogression in some historical circumstance, like in New England:
belief changes: justification by faith >justification by signing a doctrinal statement >Arminianism >Humanism

Decisional regeneration is another common but aberrant position. Spiritual regeneration happens when Almighty God takes Sovereign action to change a human heart. A human, free-will decision to believe and follow Jesus is good but it is only a first step and may indicate merely intellectual assent. God must answer prayer and supernaturally change the heart. Otherwise, a person is left unsaved. A person isn't saved automatically because they once prayed a prayer or walked an aisle at an evangelistic crusade.

 

[nl]

"Educational regeneration" is terminology to describe the aberrant position of those who assert that men and women are saved when they understand and believe in "doctrinal orthodoxy".

 

[nl]

Heart belief is more than intellectual assent. Human will and intellect cannot place faith into the heart.

 

[oldernotwiser]

"Educational regeneration" is terminology to describe the aberrant position of those who assert that men and women are saved when they understand and believe in "doctrinal orthodoxy".

one more proof that christianity didnt really originate until the 14th century (sarcasm)

 

[newbirth]

Re: Eternal Security Goes Along w/ Salvation by Faith, Not Works

"For by grace you have been saved through faith . . . not of works" lest NewBirth should boast.

I just reposted to Cassian's claim as to how I just had a few verses. So I'm not going to repeat all that, just post some for you also:

Philip 3:8-9
Yea verily, and I count all things to be loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but refuse, that I may gain Christ, and be found in him, not having a righteousness of mine own, even that which is of the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith:

Col 2:6
As therefore ye received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in him, 7 rooted and builded up in him, and established in your faith, even as ye were taught, abounding in thanksgiving.

2 Tim 3:15b
the sacred writings which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
Titus 1:4
to Titus, my true child after a common faith: Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Saviour.

Heb 3:19ff
And we see that they were not able to enter in because of unbelief. Let us fear therefore, lest haply, a promise being left of entering into his rest, any one of you should seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed we have had good tidings preached unto us, even as also they: but the word of hearing did not profit them, because it was not united by faith with them that heard. For we who have believed do enter into that rest;

Heb 10:39
But we are not of them that shrink back unto perdition; but of them that have faith unto the saving of the soul.

Heb 11:7

By faith Noah, being warned of God concerning things not seen as yet, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; through which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.

1 Pet 1:3ff

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 6Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, ye have been put to grief in manifold trials, 7 that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold that perisheth though it is proved by fire, may be found unto praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ:8 whom not having seen ye love; on whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice greatly with joy unspeakable and full of glory: 9 receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

1 John 5:4-5

4 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that hath overcome the world, even our faith. 5 And who is he that overcometh the world, but he thatbelieves that Jesus is the Son of God?



Should your post be called delusion or fabrication, Cassian? Over & over salvation is offered with only one condition put on man, faith or believing ONLY. These passages were not posted to prove eternal security, but salvation by faith. So you attack a straw man here. I have posted many verses to prove eternal security. And none of those verses deny it. You are making things up which anyone can see just by looking at those passages.

It is true that salvation by faith and eternal security are sister doctrines.


"And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is He Who calls you, Who will also do it.

you are not dealing with a scripture that I presented to you the same which you use only a part to suit your purpose. Deal directly with with this scripture...[SUP]11 [/SUP]For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

[SUP]12 [/SUP]Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

[SUP]13 [/SUP]Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

 

[tourist]

one more proof that christianity didnt really originate until the 14th century (sarcasm)

I thought it originated in the 21st century. I stand corrected.

 

[SeaBass]

Re: Both Prophet Paul & Prophet Peter Taught Eternal Security

Originally Posted by Atwood

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, ye have been put to grief in manifold trials, that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold that perisheth though it is proved by fire, may be found unto praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ: whom not having seen ye love; on whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice greatly with joy unspeakable and full of glory: receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. - 1 Pet 1

Now don't come forth with the nonsense about groups, as if there were group faith that resulted in group salvation.



More group nonsense. The word "group" doesn't occur, Seabass. Categorical statement are made about a category of persons indeed.

I am glad that you admit that Christians have been begotten, have incorruptible inheritance in heaven, and are kept by God through faith.

What is nonsense is the suggestion that if Christians have an incorruptible inheritance and are kept by God, that this does not imply that individual Christians have an incorruptible inheritance and are kept by God.

Logic, Seabass:

Given: All Christians have an incorruptible inheritance.
Given: An individual Christian is a Christian.
Therefore: An individual Christian has an incorruptible inheritance.

Give up nonsense & believe God's Word.

On one hand you say "more group nonsense" but then you immediately speak of the GROUP Christian that have been begotten.

Of course individuals make up the group but the individual outside the group is lost. It is the group that is kept by God, not the individual outside the group. So if a individual becomes unfaithful and falls away from the 'kept' group, then that individual is no longer kept by God being outside the group.