It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

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Cassian

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Oct 12, 2013
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Amen. Look at all the theological conflict paul dealt with in the NT. It is not like it just disapeared and reapeared in the so called protestant reformation.
yes, but the Church never was divided. It excised the false teachings throughout history. Paul warned of wolves from within being much more subtle and dangerous than false teachings from without. The Body of Christ with the Holy Spirit has maintained the True Gospel and man has never been able to impose his innovative ideas upon His Gospel.

The so called reformation only occured because before that time, they would have been killed. Maimed. Jailed. Cast out into some deserted island, and everything else the roman church did for 1500 years.
The Roman Church has not even existed 1500 years as yet. They split in the 11th century. They have ONLY existed for 100O years. It is a good example of the errors that creep in when man is in control, rather than the Holy Spirit working through the Body, not individual men as a Pope. Your tirade goes moot when you don't understand history.


If the roman church held its power. there still would have been no protestant reformation (luther, Calvin, Arminian and the others would have beem killed as heretics) the true church would still be underground.
that may be true, but Christ's Church, the True Church was in existence at the time. Both Luther and Calvin knew of its existence. But they were brainwashed by the RCC claims as well. In that day that might have been acceptable yet given the cultural, political, and geographic contingencies. But that is no excuse for today.
Christ's Church does not need to be reformed. It would be blasphemous to say that Christ does not know what He is doing as Head of His Church that He needs to reform it.
 
Nov 30, 2012
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Cassian, I call you out on Sola Scriptura. You have gone on about it saying this and that with no Bible proof, just you say it.

Now I want you to prove that sola scriptura is wrong.
Or better, prove that my POV is wrong (I do not call it sola scripture, BTW). Prove or retract, Cassian.

MY POV:
The Bible is the only document which is readily available to the common man, which is the Word of God.

Now to disprove that I challenge you to bring forth an prove that any other document (readily available to the common man) is God's Word.

If you cannot, kindly retract.
Scripture doesn't teach Sola Scriptura. Scripture teaches the TRADITIONS by written word (scripture) and by word of mouth (sacred tradition). Scripture teaches that the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth. Those are both from St. Paul and from Scripture.
 
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yes, but the Church never was divided. It excised the false teachings throughout history. Paul warned of wolves from within being much more subtle and dangerous than false teachings from without. The Body of Christ with the Holy Spirit has maintained the True Gospel and man has never been able to impose his innovative ideas upon His Gospel.[/B][/COLOR]

The Roman Church has not even existed 1500 years as yet. They split in the 11th century. They have ONLY existed for 100O years. It is a good example of the errors that creep in when man is in control, rather than the Holy Spirit working through the Body, not individual men as a Pope. Your tirade goes moot when you don't understand history.


that may be true, but Christ's Church, the True Church was in existence at the time. Both Luther and Calvin knew of its existence. But they were brainwashed by the RCC claims as well. In that day that might have been acceptable yet given the cultural, political, and geographic contingencies. But that is no excuse for today.
Christ's Church does not need to be reformed. It would be blasphemous to say that Christ does not know what He is doing as Head of His Church that He needs to reform it.

The Church has stood for almost 2000 years. It was Constantinople that broke away, and they were torn asunder. Then came the Reformation and the Protestants have torn asunder. Only one church has stood, growing larger and larger. Only one church can be shown to have existed since the 1st century.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Scripture doesn't teach Sola Scriptura. Scripture teaches the TRADITIONS by written word (scripture) and by word of mouth (sacred tradition). Scripture teaches that the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth. Those are both from St. Paul and from Scripture.
Scripture teaches that scripture is completely able to

1. Doctrine (teach you ALL truth)
2. Reproof (Coorect wrong thinking or beliefs)
3. Instruct in righteousness (tell us everything we need to know how to do the things of God)


as paul says:


[SUP]17 [/SUP]that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

If scripture can do all this. Nothing more can be added which can make us MORE COMPLETE and MORE EQUIPPED FOR EVERY GOOD WORK.

And paul said this before scripture was even completed.

Paul also said we had enough truth in scripture before the NT was written to be saved.

finally. God did not spend 200 year to give us a book. only to leave it unfinished.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
yes, but the Church never was divided. It excised the false teachings throughout history. Paul warned of wolves from within being much more subtle and dangerous than false teachings from without. The Body of Christ with the Holy Spirit has maintained the True Gospel and man has never been able to impose his innovative ideas upon His Gospel.[/B][/COLOR]

The Roman Church has not even existed 1500 years as yet. They split in the 11th century. They have ONLY existed for 100O years. It is a good example of the errors that creep in when man is in control, rather than the Holy Spirit working through the Body, not individual men as a Pope. Your tirade goes moot when you don't understand history.


that may be true, but Christ's Church, the True Church was in existence at the time. Both Luther and Calvin knew of its existence. But they were brainwashed by the RCC claims as well. In that day that might have been acceptable yet given the cultural, political, and geographic contingencies. But that is no excuse for today.
Christ's Church does not need to be reformed. It would be blasphemous to say that Christ does not know what He is doing as Head of His Church that He needs to reform it.


You are the roman church (blind)

The roman church was the church Constantine started. You are part of the eastern roman church (after the split)

wow. just wow.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
The Church has stood for almost 2000 years. It was Constantinople that broke away, and they were torn asunder. Then came the Reformation and the Protestants have torn asunder. Only one church has stood, growing larger and larger. Only one church can be shown to have existed since the 1st century.
I agree. It has stood,

It is not the roman church though. They just have fooled you into believing it is. Just like the jews used tradition, and words of men (outside Gods word) to convince their people to follow them, and not the true men of God (including jesus) Your church has done that with you..

Amazing, You use the exact same arguments they used against Christ (who was considered a protestant against the organized Church of Israel)

If he came today, You would call him a protestant also. Not because he followed Luther or calvin or any of the other reformers. But because he would do the same thing to you he did to the jews. Used you r man made books and traditions against you.

And yes, Unless you did like nicodemous and repent, You would crucify him just like they did (and you did many of his people for 1500 years.
 
Nov 30, 2012
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Scripture teaches that scripture is completely able to

1. Doctrine (teach you ALL truth)
2. Reproof (Coorect wrong thinking or beliefs)
3. Instruct in righteousness (tell us everything we need to know how to do the things of God)


as paul says:


[SUP]17 [/SUP]that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

If scripture can do all this. Nothing more can be added which can make us MORE COMPLETE and MORE EQUIPPED FOR EVERY GOOD WORK.

And paul said this before scripture was even completed.

Paul also said we had enough truth in scripture before the NT was written to be saved.

finally. God did not spend 200 year to give us a book. only to leave it unfinished.
Paul was speaking of the OT when he wrote those words. The only person in all of scripture who believed Paul's letters were scripture was St. Peter. I wonder why no one ever questioned whether Paul's letters were scripture in the early church? You would think that Peter had some form of authority that wasn't to be questioned.
 

Cassian

Senior Member
Oct 12, 2013
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Theological conflict didn't begin w/ the Prot reformation, it goes back to the Garden of Eden: Yea hath God said. And I believe that at one time, about the only Ecclesiastical authority who was not a heretic on the Trinity or the Theanthropic Union in Christ was Athanasius (Contra Mundum) in the 4th Century. And I don't think that the RCC had a shortage of persons to persecute and attack over theology at any time in its history, way before Martin Luther. And how often were Rome and Constantinople at each other's throats, sending each other to Hell?

The modern mainline Prot typically denies the basics of the faith, like that the Bible is God's Word. Anything goes, even marrying 2 men or 2 women.

So there are a number of false gospels.

The true gospel is: Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved. You must rest in Him as your only and sufficient Savior, believing that He is and will save you, not that He gives you a chance at it.


Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God who justifies; who is he who condemns? It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, who was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.

Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Even as it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Your simplistic resume does not even account for a living faith. A faith that is active and working with God to attain eternal life. Which is the whole topic of many threads which so many are confused about.
Yet in this whole statement not one text yet that supports OSAS. You gave several promises of God and his responsibility in the relationship He desires with man, but not a single thing regarding man and his faith and faithfulness. Nothing. As if most of the NT does not even exist.
Here are just a couple that deny OSAS and shows the conditions placed upon a believer.....

I John 3:23-24
23
And this is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as He has commanded us.
24
Whoever keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him; and by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

1 Corinthians 9:24
Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one receives the prize?
So run that you may obtain it.

2 Timothy 2:10
Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect,
that they also might obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
1 Peter 1:9
obtaining the outcome of your faith, the salvation of your souls.


Romans 2:6-7
6 He will render to each one according to his works:
7 to those who by patience in good works seek for glory and honor and immortality, He will give eternal life;

These are all very clear denials of OSAS.
 
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I agree. It has stood,

It is not the roman church though. They just have fooled you into believing it is. Just like the jews used tradition, and words of men (outside Gods word) to convince their people to follow them, and not the true men of God (including jesus) Your church has done that with you..

Amazing, You use the exact same arguments they used against Christ (who was considered a protestant against the organized Church of Israel)

If he came today, You would call him a protestant also. Not because he followed Luther or calvin or any of the other reformers. But because he would do the same thing to you he did to the jews. Used you r man made books and traditions against you.

And yes, Unless you did like nicodemous and repent, You would crucify him just like they did (and you did many of his people for 1500 years.
How dare you say that. If Christ stood before me, I would not stop kissing His feet and washing them with my tears.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
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Yes, and that is the Gospel of Christ entrusted to His Body and preserved by the Holy Spirit. Something you cannot say about your personal gospel or any sola scripturist gospel. It changes constantly, whereas the Gospel of Christ has not changed in 2000 years.
What is your proof of that? What you say is false. I see no proof, just you saying it, Cassian. My gospel of eternal life comes from the Word of God, the Bible. It hasn't changed since the Bible was finished -- nor did it change at any time in history, except that in OT times men trusted in YHWH without distinguishing the Son of God as the 2nd person of the Trinity, in whom now faith must be focused.

[/quote]When and what Church[/quote]

This is suggests an error. There is and only has ever been one Church. He who doesn't trust Christ as only & sufficient Savior is not a part of it. Denominations & sects are not churches.

The universal gospel: Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved. (not shall get a chance at it.)


The Church knows ONLY ONE Tradition. The Gospel the Revelation of God to man given by the Holy Spirit to the Apostles. The same Tradition Paul tells Timothy to keep. Which has been kept and handed down continually from the beginning unchanged by man.
The only and one tradition to keep is that of the prophets of God, some of whom were apostles. Human traditions are forbidden as religious authority by the Lord Jesus. The only tradition we have from prophets (commonly & readily available to men) is that in the Bible.

[/quote]all have a different gospel, a sectarian, personal one with a few followers. It is why you don't understand each other.[/QUOTE]

No, all do not have a different gospel. There is broad agreement among many Christians as to the gospel. As a matter of fact, I have done extensive research in Bible commentaries on a particular subject. Compare RCC commentaries, to learn that they do not agree with each other on the interpretation of particular verses; neither do the so-called "Church Fathers."

Now tell us the truth Cassian. Have you actually read the Bible even one time?

Mark 7 "Ye leave the commandment of God, and hold fast the tradition of men." "making void the word of God by your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things ye do."

Col 2: "
Take heed lest there shall be any one that maketh spoil of you through his philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ:"

Prophet & Apostle Paul: "
So then, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye were taught, whether by word, or by epistle of ours.

"
Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which they received of us."

What leads anyone to suppose that these traditions are anything other than prophecy of Paul ("of us")? These are not said to be human traditions. Nor can this teaching disagree with that of the Lord Jesus.

Cassian, have you read the Bible even once?
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
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How dare you say that. If Christ stood before me, I would not stop kissing His feet and washing them with my tears.
But can you now trust Him as your only and sufficient Savior, Thomist? Can you rely on Him solely to get you to Heaven by His atonement on the cross?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
How dare you say that. If Christ stood before me, I would not stop kissing His feet and washing them with my tears.

If Christ stood before you, you would fall in your face trembling in fear and know you do not deserve to go to heaven.

You better pray that he tells you it is ok. He took care of your sin, and made you his child. Your forgiven.

And I said it because yuo use THE VERY SAME THE JEWS USED AGAINST HIM, against me.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Paul was speaking of the OT when he wrote those words. The only person in all of scripture who believed Paul's letters were scripture was St. Peter. I wonder why no one ever questioned whether Paul's letters were scripture in the early church? You would think that Peter had some form of authority that wasn't to be questioned.
Um, Paul said ALL SCRIPTURE.

Peter said Pauls words were scripture. Thus paul included his own letters in this passage.

Why do you twist everything.

not to mention. If he WAS talking about the OT only. I guess we did not need the NT. Because the OLD could make us COMPLETE IN HIM, and completely equip us for every good work. Thus we STILL do not need tradition and words of men outside of scripture.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
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Your simplistic resume does not even account for a living faith. A faith that is active and working with God to attain eternal life.
Again you say things with no proof. If you are working to attain eternal life, then you are not trusting the Lord Jesus for it. "Sirs, what must I do to be saved? Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved." The faith that trusts the Lord Jesus, is the same faith that continues to trust Him.

I have been crucified with Christ,
and it is no longer I who live,
but Christ lives in me;
and the life which I live in the flesh,
I live in faith,

the faith which is in the Son of God who loved me,
and gave Himself for me;
I do not make void the grace of God,
for if righteousness come through the law,
then Christ died in vain.

Eternal life is the immediate possession of anyone who trusts Christ as Savior.
1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life."
Present tense & a truth repeated in God's Word.

One must rest from one's works and trust the Savior. "All our righteousnesses are as filthy rags."


Here are just a couple that deny OSAS and shows the conditions placed upon a believer.....
I rejoice to see you quoting scripture instead of just pontificating.

You quote: "I John 3:23-24
23
And this is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as He has commanded us.
24
Whoever keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him; and by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us."

Great verse, but nothing to do with obtaining salvation at all. Yes, we are commanded to believe -- and when will you?
Abiding in Christ refers to fellowship, which we may or may not enjoy after being saved. There is nothing about losing salvation here.

Then you quote:

1 Corinthians 9:24
Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one receives the prize? So run that you may obtain it.

There is nothing about losing salvation here. The prize is a crown, a victor's wreath, a reward, not salvation. There are about 5 crowns (rewards) specifically mentioned in the NT. Rewards are earned by works. Salvation is a free gift of grace.

Next you quote:

2 Timothy 2:10
Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect,
that they also might obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Nothing is said here about what the elect do to obtain salvation. Paul is bringing them the gospel so they might be saved. BTW, the elect are not necessarily saved; a man is elect before saved. So the gospel is brought to the elect, they hear it and believe, and become saved. There is nothing about "losing salvation" here.



Then we have 1 Peter 1:9
obtaining the outcome of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

There is nothing here about losing salvation. Indeed salvation is the outcome of faith. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved,

Lastly you quote Romans 2:6-7:

6 He will render to each one according to his works:
7 to those who by patience in good works seek for glory and honor and immortality, He will give eternal life;

There is nothing here about losing salvation or losing eternal life. This is the hypothetical offer of salvation for good works, which can never be fulfilled, because all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags. We know it is hypothetical because so many times works is said not to lead to salvation.
Read the context. Prophet Paul is bringing all under condemnation, prior to getting the reader (hopefully) saved. Prophet Paul says that there is none good, no not one! And he specifically negates works in the context. "
that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may be brought under the judgment of God:"


Wherefore thou art without excuse, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest dost practise the same things. And we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against them that practise such things. And reckonest thou this, O man, who judgest them that practise such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? but after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up for thyself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; who will render to every man according to his works: to them that by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and incorruption, eternal life: but unto them that are factious, and obey not the truth, but obey unrighteousness, shall be wrath and indignation, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that worketh evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Greek; but glory and honor and peace to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek: for there is no respect of persons with God. For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without the law: and as many as have sinned under the law shall be judged by the law . . .


What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we before laid to the charge both of Jews and Greeks, that they are all under sin;
] as it is written,

There is none righteous, no, not one;
11 There is none that understandeth,
There is none that seeketh after God;
12 They have all turned aside, they are together become unprofitable;
There is none that doeth good, no, not so much as one:
Their throat is an open sepulchre;
With their tongues they have used deceit:
The poison of asps is under their lips:
Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
Their feet are swift to shed blood;
Destruction and misery are in their ways;
And the way of peace have they not known:
There is no fear of God before their eyes.


19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it speaketh to them that are under the law;that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may be brought under the judgment of God: 20 because by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified in his sight; for through the law cometh the knowledge of sin.



 

Atwood

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May 1, 2014
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Paul was speaking of the OT when he wrote those words. The only person in all of scripture who believed Paul's letters were scripture was St. Peter. I wonder why no one ever questioned whether Paul's letters were scripture in the early church? You would think that Peter had some form of authority that wasn't to be questioned.
Good evening Thomist, I note that you post politely.

Now we really cannot say that the only person in scripture who believed Paul's letters were scripture was Peter, though Peter does endorse Paul's writings as scripture. It is clear, for example, that the Thessalonians accepted Paul's oral prophecy as God's Word. Since "My sheep hear My voice," we must conclude that at once the Apostle Paul's writings were recognized as God's word from the getgo. And of course Peter's endorsement means that it didn't wait for the 4th century canonical debates for Paul's letters to be recognized as God's Word.

I mean, if Jude doesn't mention Paul, this proves nothing about what Jude thought of Paul's letters.

As to Peter's authority, the only places I know where it is illustrated are in Acts 15 and in Galatians 2. Do you see Peter treated like a pope by James and the others in Acts 15? And in Gal 2, Paul really told off Peter, who apparently meekly accepted it, and we see very soon after this rebuke, his endorsement of Paul in Acts 15 (as I date Galatians right before the Jeru Council). There really is no hint of a pope in the NT, and certainly no Office of Peter to be perpetuated.
 

Cassian

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Oct 12, 2013
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Cassian, I call you out on Sola Scriptura. You have gone on about it saying this and that with no Bible proof, just you say it.
that is the whole point. Sola scripturists have no scriptural basis for the principle or practice of sola scriptura. I cannot prove a negative. But if scripture is your sole source of faith and practice you are a sola scripturist. So cite a text that says individuals can interpret a text, called the Bible or scripture?

Now I want you to prove that sola scriptura is wrong.
It is NOT found in scripture. Individual men were never given the Gospel in the NT era. Individual men were not given the responsibility over a text. Individual men do not have the authority to interpret the text, but if you think they do, cite the text that gives you that authority.

Or better, prove that my POV is wrong (I do not call it sola scripture, BTW). Prove or retract, Cassian.
I have done that in every post I responded to you. OSAS does not exist in scripture as it was given in the beginning. It is a man made supposition imposed upon scripture. I also gave you the historical record of OSAS, Calvin, via Augustine and a pagan religion. How much proof do you need.

MY POV:
The Bible is the only document which is readily available to the common man, which is the Word of God.


But God's revelation was not given to individual man. It was given to His Church. It is entrusted to His Church over which Christ is Head and is enlivened by the Holy Spirit. That Gospel the entire revelation, is being guarded and preserved by the Holy Spirit through His Body. It is not being guarded through a text and surely not through individual men who were not even taught the Gospel. Even individual man within the Body do not have the authority to interpret scripture. It is how all the false teachings have originated for two millennium. It is why all man made innovations never were able to be imposed on His Gospel.
Protestants rile against the RCC, but they are your best example when man, a man, exerts his own authority over both scripture and Holy Tradition and changes it as they have done for 1000 years now. They taught all Protestants how to assert individual control over a text and develop their own little personal sectarian theologies.
For all your claims of trusting Christ, you have a long way to go. You have put your trust in your fallible ability to interpret a text minus the Tradition from whence it came and have never been taught the Gospel as the Church has taught it from the beginning.

Now to disprove that I challenge you to bring forth an prove that any other document (readily available to the common man) is God's Word.
Christ Himself is available to every man if they believe in the Christ as He has revealed Himself to man through His Body.
It is not the purpose of the text for man to develop His own Christ, His own perceived means of salvation from a text. You have basically reduced the text as a source of ideas, and idealogy. You believe in a self proclaimed idealogy.

You have pretty much developed a good moral, external code of salvation that can be achieved by believing a set of self established guidelines.

It is patently absurd that the Body of Christ, the Church, in its early days existed on a text. Ignatius was appointed bishop at Antioch by Peter in 60AD. He is martyred in 110 AD. He was a bishop for 50 years and there never was a complete Bible as you know it and not even all Church had all the letters. Not all Churches even had all the letters, they had other documents, even in the 4th century when the Bible was Canonized. Why would the Church need a text when It had the entire Gospel oraly given and handed down. That meaning is still handed down and it has been preserved in Christ's Body, His Church which is the ground and pillar of Truth, never individual men, nor even the text itself. The text cannot be separated from its full content, God's Revelation to man, and the context, the Church Christ's Body.

The Bible is available but if you don't know what it means and you attempt to do it yourself, well, look around you. 500 years of utter chaos, confusion and division. It is an unfortuate twist of history that the west came under the domiance of the RCC and its errors. But the Protestant milieu just compounded the problem.


If you cannot, kindly retract.
I don't need to retract. Christ is not going to retract either.
 
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Atwood

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May 1, 2014
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The Church has stood for almost 2000 years. It was Constantinople that broke away, and they were torn asunder. Then came the Reformation and the Protestants have torn asunder. Only one church has stood, growing larger and larger. Only one church can be shown to have existed since the 1st century.
I hope you are not equating Church with some Roman sect. The Body of Christ is no denomination; it is the some total of us who trust the Lord Jesus as only & sufficient Savior. Yes, the gates of Hades don't prevail vs us. I believe there have always been Bible-believing Christians, part of the only Church that has ever existed, Christians who refused to come under the pope or patriarchs. 1 Cor 12:13. The Church is never torn asunder, since it is a miracle of the Holy Spirit's baptism. To be sure Christians may sin vs each other and quarrel, but they cannot exit the Body of Christ.
 
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If Christ stood before you, you would fall in your face trembling in fear and know you do not deserve to go to heaven.

You better pray that he tells you it is ok. He took care of your sin, and made you his child. Your forgiven.

And I said it because yuo use THE VERY SAME THE JEWS USED AGAINST HIM, against me.
The Lord forgive your rage. I have a feeling brother that you are far from where God wants you to be. You accuse brethren constantly, and seem to be on the verge of true rage at every turn. We have a God who died on a cross for us. Not because it was simply some divine plan, but because He made us to be His beloved bride.
 

Apostol2013

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Jan 27, 2013
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1 Scripture says a believer HAS been regenerated.
2. It says they were regenerated not by doing good works. but by Gods mercy.

But hey, If you want to save yourself Have at it.
regenerated = brought back from being fallen away
 
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I hope you are not equating Church with some Roman sect. The Body of Christ is no denomination; it is the some total of us who trust the Lord Jesus as only & sufficient Savior. Yes, the gates of Hades don't prevail vs us. I believe there have always been Bible-believing Christians, part of the only Church that has ever existed, Christians who refused to come under the pope or patriarchs. 1 Cor 12:13. The Church is never torn asunder, since it is a miracle of the Holy Spirit's baptism. To be sure Christians may sin vs each other and quarrel, but they cannot exit the Body of Christ.
As a Catholic, I do believe that the Catholic church is the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. However, I agree with Canon law, viewed as infallible, there is salvation outside of the Church, but not outside of Christ.