It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

[peacefulbeliever]

The book of Romans does not contain all the word of God. One must consider ALL salvic verses and not just cherry pick out certain ones.

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Rev 2:1-7 shows the church at Ephesus became unsealed, left their first love,were fallen and if they did not obey the command to repent, the church (candlestick) would be removed, no longer acknowledged by God.

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1 Cor 9:1 Am I not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? are not ye my work in the Lord?

Those Corinthian converts were Paul's work.

In the context of 1 Cor 3 Paul is metaphorically comparing building a building to build the church, vs 9,10. The work necessary to "build" the church is making more converts,

How did Paul "lay the foundation" of the church at Corinth? By working to make the initial converts at Corinth, Others came behind Paul and "buildeth thereon" that foundation by making more converts.

You're correct the book of Romans does not contain all the word of God but it is a doctrinal epistle addressed to the church.

I can see where 1 Co. 3 can be understood as 'building the church' collectively, but I also see and understand it in an individual light as being to every man building upon their foundation which is Christ. We are the temple of God because the Spirit of God dwells in us.

What is not understood when speaking of salvation and being born again of the Spirit - that Spirit created in us is incorruptible. It is born of the Spirit - God is Spirit - We are part of the family of God . . . The same relationship held in earthly families can be related to our heavenly family. In our earthly families our 'standing' is that of a child and we will be a child until we die [corruptible seed] although our 'state' may change based on our behavior.
When we are born of God our 'standing' in the family of God is that of a son/daughter and we will be a son/daughter as long as that seed remains in us. That seed is incorruptible and Spirit is eternal. Our 'state' will fluctuate just as in our earthly family based on our behavior. We apologize for wrongdoing in an earthly family and we ask forgiveness in our heavenly family to restore our 'state' or our fellowship.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

If losing salvation were not possible, no sin can cause one to be lost, then one needs no advocate. Only those GUILTY of sin are lost, and an 'unguilty', saved person needs no attorney on his behalf.

Yes, innocent people have need of attorneys . . . innocent people can be falsely accused.

 

[svedbygrace]

Those who read 1 Peter 1:5 and deny eternal security are as those Paul warned of here 2 Tim 3:5 !

 

[Cassian]

Because we are to ask forgiveness for sin to restore fellowship does not mean that before that we were UN-born again. How does that work exactly becoming UN-born? I hope God has a lot of erasers in heaven because he would have to erase a person's name when they sin, write it back when they ask forgiveness, erase it, write it back, erase it, write it back - I'm sure you get it and I don't believe that is how it works.

Whether I confess or not has nothing to do with my salvation [I'm not saying that anyone does that] - my faith is what over comes. My salvation rest in being born again of God's spirit and that spirit remains in me and is incorruptible. I can not please God in the flesh (Romans 8:8) because in the flesh dwells no good thing (Rom. 7:18) - that is the whole point of being born again of God's spirit.

I'm just continually being amazed by the most unscriptural statements I have heard in a long time.

Sin has nothing to do with my salvation.

Sin is the test of our faith. It is the ONLY way a person can lose faith. Losing faith is sin, not being obedient, not doing the will of God. Christ atoned for sin so that man and God could be reunited in this life. His sacrifice provides the means by which Christ, as our High Priest, can forgive our sins. He does NOT forgive sins without our confession. Which is why man falls. He returns to his sinful habits, rationalizes sin out of existence and goes on his merry way, all the while thinking he is in Christ. Those are the same ones in Matt 24 the parable of the last Judgement will be told that they were never known.

 

[Atwood]

I'm just continually being amazed by the most unscriptural statements I have heard in a long time.

Sin has nothing to do with my salvation.

Sin is the test of our faith. It is the ONLY way a person can lose faith. Losing faith is sin, not being obedient, not doing the will of God. Christ atoned for sin so that man and God could be reunited in this life. His sacrifice provides the means by which Christ, as our High Priest, can forgive our sins. He does NOT forgive sins without our confession. Which is why man falls. He returns to his sinful habits, rationalizes sin out of existence and goes on his merry way, all the while thinking he is in Christ.

Cassian, are you aware that all of that is just you saying things? If you want to be believed, try proving it with scripture, which should be common ground. Prove it or retract.

Tell me the truth, Cassian: Have you ever read the Bible through even once?

Those are the same ones in Matt 24 the parable of the last Judgement will be told that they were never known.

1) First of all, there is no last judgment in Mat 24. In Mat 24 neither the English word "judgment" occurs, nor the Greek word κρίσις (krisis).

2) What parable? Why would you take a judgment as a parable?

3) Mat 25 has the Sheep & Goat judgment, which follows the Tribulation of Mat 24 and Christ's return. BTW, the Sheep and Goats are judged for how they treated a 3rd group, "Christ's brethren."

4) What is your proof that the Sheep & Goat judgment pertains telling that group that He never new them, namely every man who returns "to his sinful habits, rationalizes sin out of existence and goes on his merry way, all the while thinking he is in Christ." Where is that in Mat 25 (if you refer to that)?

5) The last judgment in the Bible is not the above, but the Great White Throne Judgment which follows the Millennium in Rev 20.

Do you realize that what you posted has no Bible proof?

Now here is some Bible proof that salvation requires only faith as an action of man to acquire, and there is lots more which I could post. What you posted is strange incense vis-a-vis what the Lord has said:

Rom 1:16-17
For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is revealed a righteousness of God from faith unto faith: as it is written, But the righteous shall live by faith.

Rom 3:21-30

But now apart from the law a righteousness of God hath been manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe; for there is no distinction; 23 for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God; 24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 whom God set forth to be a propitiation, through faith, in his blood, to show his righteousness because of the passing over of the sins done aforetime, in the forbearance of God; 26 for the showing, I say, of his righteousness at this present season: that he might himself be just, and the justifier of him that hath faith in Jesus. 27 Where then is the glorying? It is excluded. By what manner of law? of works? Nay: but by a law of faith. 28 We reckon therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yea, of Gentiles also: 30 if so be that God is one, and he shall justify the circumcision by faith, and the uncircumcision through faith.

Rom 4:1ff

What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, hath found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not toward God. 3 For what saith the scripture? And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him who works, the reward is not reckoned as of grace, but as of debt. 5 But to him that works not, but believeth on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned for righteousness. 6 Even as David also pronounces blessing upon the man, to whom God reckons righteousness apart from works, 7 saying,
Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not reckon sin.

9 Is this blessing then pronounced upon the circumcision, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say, To Abraham his faith was reckoned for righteousness. 10 How then was it reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision: 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while he was in uncircumcision: that he might be the father of all them who believe, though they be in uncircumcision, that righteousness might be reckoned unto them; 12 and the father of circumcision to them who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham which he had in uncircumcision.

13 For not through the law was the promise to Abraham or to his seed that he should be heir of the world, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if they that are of the law are heirs, faith is made void, and the promise is made of none effect: 15 for the law works wrath; but where there is no law, neither is there transgression.

16 For this cause it is of faith, that it may be according to grace; to the end that the promise may be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all

17 (as it is written, A father of many nations have I made thee) before him whom he believed, even God, who giveth life to the dead, and calleth the things that are not, as though they were. 18 Who in hope believed against hope, to the end that he might become a father of many nations, according to that which had been spoken, So shall thy seed be. 19 And without being weakened in faith he considered his own body now as good as dead (he being about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb; 20 yet, looking unto the promise of God, he wavered not through unbelief, but waxed strong through faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully assured that what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 22 Wherefore also it was reckoned unto him for righteousness.

Rom 5:1-2
Being therefore justified by faith, let us have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ; through whom also we have had our access by faith into this grace wherein we stand; and let us boast in hope of the glory of God.

Rom 9:30:
What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, who followed not after righteousness, attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith: but Israel, following after a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by works. They stumbled at the stone of stumbling; even as it is written,
Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offence:
And he who believes on him shall not be put to shame.

Rom 10:4ff

For Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness to everyone who believes. For Moses writeth that the man that doeth the righteousness which is of the law shall live thereby. But the righteousness which is of faith says thus, Say not in thy heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down or, Who shall descend into the abyss? (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach.

 

[Alligator]

I'm just continually being amazed by the most unscriptural statements I have heard in a long time.

Sin has nothing to do with my salvation.

Sin is the test of our faith. It is the ONLY way a person can lose faith. Losing faith is sin, not being obedient, not doing the will of God. Christ atoned for sin so that man and God could be reunited in this life. His sacrifice provides the means by which Christ, as our High Priest, can forgive our sins. He does NOT forgive sins without our confession. Which is why man falls. He returns to his sinful habits, rationalizes sin out of existence and goes on his merry way, all the while thinking he is in Christ. Those are the same ones in Matt 24 the parable of the last Judgement will be told that they were never known.

Romans 6:22-23
English Standard Version (ESV)
22 But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Cassian]

atwood,

Cassian, are you aware that all of that is just you saying things? If you want to be believed, try proving it with scripture, which should be common ground. Prove it or retract.

See the story of Adam. All one needs to do is read scripture, just as you state.

Tell me the truth, Cassian: Have you ever read the Bible through even once?

Yes, I have. But what has that got to do with understanding it. I'm sure you are going to claim you also read it through, but quite obviously it did not do much good for you.
An atheists can read the Bible from cover to cover, in fact, I know of a agnostic that has. I'm sure many Mormons have read it through as well. Reading the Bible will not ever tell you what it means. Which is why all sola scripturists have been wrong on all counts. Your rationale is illogical.

First of all, there is no last judgment in Mat 24. In Mat 24 neither the English word "judgment" occurs, nor the Greek word κρίσις (krisis).
2) What parable? Why would you take a judgment as a parable?

Sorry, incorrect citation, Matt 25:31ff. Because that is what it is describing.

4) What is your proof that the Sheep & Goat judgment pertains telling that group that He never new them, namely every man who returns "to his sinful habits, rationalizes sin out of existence and goes on his merry way, all the while thinking he is in Christ." Where is that in Mat 25 (if you refer to that)?

because both groups were doing the very same works. Those Christ accepted did them to the end. The others is stated in the past tense. they did them for a while then stopped, but still thought they would be saved. Same basis of OSAS.

The last judgment in the Bible is not the above, but the Great White Throne Judgment which follows the Millennium in Rev 20.

they are one and the same. And i see you hold to yet another man made theory, premillennialism. We are in the millennium right now.
Rev 20 is the summary of the time between Advents.

Do you realize that what you posted has no Bible proof?

yea, but for those who have read through scripture, have studied scripture and checked it with the Gospel from the beginning, who where taught the Gospel as it was from the beginning, would know and understand what I have been saying.
Those that hold to man made theories and need proof texts to support false suppositions have problems because they ONLY see their false suppositions and read scripture through those lens. It is amazing that you have adopted so man man made theories.

Rom 1:16-17
For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is revealed a righteousness of God from faith unto faith: as it is written, But the righteous shall live by faith.

then you post a text that categorically denies your whole premise of eternal security.
We need to live by faith. Obviously, those many examples in scripture where it clearly states they lost faith, cannot be saved. Cannot inherit the promise at the end.
YOu need to come up with some real proof texts. YOu are not doing very well at all.
then you quote nine texts that all categorially deny your position. They all speak of believe, believeth, and faith. If one no longer beleives these texts are irrelevant and since many do no longer remain in Christ because they have lost faith, OSAS fails again.
YOu use the word faith, live by faith, live through faith, all conditional phrases since again obviously those that lose faith are not saved.
Where are your proot texts for OSAS. You need a text that says one is saved absolutely upon initial faith and has eternal life. Not shall have, or will have. And it cannot have a verb that is present tense, active continuing.
This is your OP and 946 posts and you have yet to give ONE text that actually supports your supposition. You have been all over the Bible trying desparately to find the right text and cannot find it. You will never find it because it is not there.
It works well in the Calvinistic predestination system of religion, but Calvin's meaning of predestination is not found in scripture either. Neither are the other 5 tenets since they exist ONLY under the umbrella of predestination.
YOu quote a lot of texts that address "justification by faith" also. This is NOT addressing OSAS or the attaining of eternal life. It is initial faith, but it is not salvation as you are ascribing it. The reason you do, is probably because of the Satisfaction theory of Atonement developed by Anselm and adopted by both of the reformers, Luther and Calvin. Calvin even added the "penal theory" to it.
Let's face it Adwood, you hold to a lot of theories developed by men.

 

[Cassian]

Romans 6:22-23
English Standard Version (ESV)
22 But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Which is another reason why false teachings are quite easy to discern because they void or ignore so much of the rest of scripture. In this whole topic, the proponents of OSAS have posted texts that categorically deny OSAS, but yet they will staunchly state that scripture teaches OSAS.

 

[newbirth]

I have not seen anyone that denies 1 Pet 1:5. I have seen yourself and others try and force ES into this verse when it is not there. The verse does NOT say "kept by the power of God unconditionally" as some wish it would have said.

I was trying to explain to svedbygrace it is the same power he gave us to become a Son of God. The same power that keeps us through faith unto salvation. (I asked a question) ...Do you deny God gave you power to become a son of God . Still no answer.
[h=3]John 1:11-12[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]11 [/SUP]He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

1 Peter 1:5
King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]5 [/SUP]Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Romans 1:16
King James Version
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

 

[newbirth]

Those who read 1 Peter 1:5 and deny eternal security are as those Paul warned of here 2 Tim 3:5 !

Do you deny God gave you power to become a son of God?
Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
1 Peter 1:5
King James Version
Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
John 1:11-12
King James Version (KJV)


[SUP]11 [/SUP]He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

 

[TCoop08]

Salvation doesn't come by one little Salvation Prayer. It's through a relationship with Christ. Grace is not an excuse for all our sins past, present, and future. Grace is required because we were born into sin, therefore we all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. No number of righteous acts can make up for that, we are lost. After we accept His Grace into our lives, life doesn't go away. Satan doesn't stop tempting. It takes work to be a Christian. Especially in today's times. We must have a deep relationship with God to "endure" to the end. Sin separates us from God. It doesn't separate us from God's love, for He loves all. But sin is the cause of separation between humanity and God. When we receive salvation, it will never be taken from us, yet it is still our choice to sin even after we received it. Those who think they can't go a day without salvation have missed the scriptures that mention sanctification and the baptism of the Holy Spirit. These things, as well as others, are gifts for us to receive after salvation to keep us in His Grace. These are not ways for us to earn or keep salvation by our own works, they are acts of Grace by the Holy Spirit whom Jesus Christ sent for us as a Help in these desperate times. Salvation is received and kept by Grace, yet it is lost by sin. We are all accountable to search all these scriptures out. It's dangerous to ignore scriptures because they make us feel uncomfortable. All the scriptures used above to support eternal security I believe completely, because eternal security is true if we endure to the end.

 

[Atwood]

Salvation doesn't come by one little Salvation Prayer. It's through a relationship with Christ.

Greetings TCoop,

I hope I am not firing cannon balls at a canary bird on our first exchange.

But for some reason you neglected to post proof of your claim. And what makes anyone suppose that the two statements cannot both be true? The Word says that "Whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved" (Rom 10:13). Thus this call is not a "little prayer." In context it can be seen that this is a call of faith (how can they call on Him in whom they have not believed, etc.). The one thing man does to be saved is to have faith, believe, trust in the Savior. A prayer is a way of exercising that faith, not that prayer per se saves -- rather it is reiterated over and over than man is justified by faith.

People don't "grow into a new birth." A new birth is an event, just like the human natural birth. Old things pass away, behold all is new, like with Paul on Damascus Road -- though not the everyone has such a grand experience as that. You are either In Christ or out of Christ, either indwelt and baptized by the Spirit or not.

All the scriptures used above to support eternal security I believe completely, because eternal security is true if we endure to the end.

Perhaps I don't understand what you say, but it looks like double-speak to me. Don't you have it backwards: If we have eternal security, then we endure to the end. If we are a sheep, then we do not perish. It is dubious to use a verse out of the Olivet Discourse which refers to tribulation saints making it to the end of the tribulation and entering the Millennial Kingdom. But given eternal security, all the children of God (everyone who trusts the Lord Jesus as Savior) does indeed endure to the end.

Salvation is a free gift, not of works, not a special privilege after a child of God works up a "deep relationship." Being put in Christ is a deep relationship from the getgo as we are put into the Body of Christ.

End of Rom 8:
And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to his purpose. For whom
he foreknew,
he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom
he foreordained, them
he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom
he justified, them
he also glorified.

What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? He who spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things?
Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God who justifies;
who is he who condemns?
It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.
Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Even as it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.

John 10:28
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.

 

[Atwood]

Which is another reason why false teachings are quite easy to discern because they void or ignore so much of the rest of scripture. In this whole topic, the proponents of OSAS have posted texts that categorically deny OSAS, but yet they will staunchly state that scripture teaches OSAS.

I haven't seen any such texts. But the thread is about "eternal security," not "OSAS." There are no texts that deny eternal security for the man who trusts Christ as Savior."

Would you mind telling us Cassian if you have ever read the Bible through even once?

John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

 

[Atwood]

atwood,
See the story of Adam. All one needs to do is read scripture, just as you state.

I am familiar with the story. Your vague reference proves nothing.

Which is why all sola scripturists have been wrong on all counts. Your rationale is illogical.

There is nothing irrational about proving arguments with "It is written." That is what the Lord Jesus did.

Correct me if I am wrong:

But it seems to me that you are just playing a game here when you refer to scripture, and you don't feel obligated to prove anything from scripture. For you think that some human organization is of higher authority. Is it the RCC that you put above the Bible? Or is it some other group? If so, what is your proof that what it pontificates is true? Now if it is above the Bible, you can't prove it from the Bible as you endorse the Bible because of your organizational pontifications.

Haven't I challenged you before when you sneer at sola scriptura? Yet when have you ever proven your POV?

My POV is that the Bible is the Word of God. And the Bible is the only source of God's Word which is readily available to men in general on earth today. Do we not have common ground that the Bible is God's Word? Now if you claim that something else also is God's Word and that it is readily available to men in general on earth, bring it forth and prove it is God's Word -- or stop going on sneering at sola scriptura.

Sorry, incorrect citation, Matt 25:31ff. Because that is what it is describing.
because both groups were doing the very same works. Those Christ accepted did them to the end. The others is stated in the past tense. they did them for a while then stopped, but still thought they would be saved. Same basis of OSAS.

Cassius, really that quote from you makes no sense for vagueness.

There is absolutely nothing in Mat 25 against eternal security whatsoever. If you want to debate eternal security, you must quote passages on eternal life and salvation. And take it easy on parables where neither term occurs.

Now I don't propose to argue millennial theories much here, because they have nothing to do with eternal security. Christians disagree on eschatology.

Now you go on saying things without proof.

yea, but for those who have read through scripture, have studied scripture and checked it with the Gospel from the beginning, who where taught the Gospel as it was from the beginning, would know and understand what I have been saying.
Those that hold to man made theories and need proof texts to support false suppositions have problems because they ONLY see their false suppositions and read scripture through those lens. It is amazing that you have adopted so man man made theories.

What a load of unproved opinion.

then you post a text that categorically denies your whole premise of eternal security.

There are no verses that deny eternal security.

We need to live by faith. Obviously, those many examples in scripture where it clearly states they lost faith, cannot be saved. Cannot inherit the promise at the end.

Prove it or retract Cassian. You cannot.

If one no longer beleives these texts are irrelevant and since many do no longer remain in Christ because they have lost faith, OSAS fails again.

You say it, but so what? You give no proof.
If a person presently believes, then he has a secured future, as the verses indicate.

since again obviously those that lose faith are not saved.
Where are your proot texts for OSAS. You need a text that says one is saved absolutely upon initial faith and has eternal life. Not shall have, or will have. And it cannot have a verb that is present tense, active continuing.
This is your OP and 946 posts and you have yet to give ONE text that actually supports your supposition. You have been all over the Bible trying desparately to find the right text and cannot find it. You will never find it because it is not there.

Bluster and pontifications prove nothing. Look above, no scripture; just Cassian in Wonderland.

Then you go on about Calvin and still don't quote scripture to prove a thing. Prove from God's Word or retract.

Let's face it Adwood, you hold to a lot of theories developed by men.

Your saying it proves nothing. The scripture I post is not written by man, and it clearly asserts what it says:

Rom 11:29
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

Philippians 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

1 John 5:10-13
Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

Romans 11:6
But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.

Romans 8:34
Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us.

[Is the answer to Rom 3:34 "Cassian"?]

Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Philippians 3:20-21
But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself.

Ephesians 1:13
In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.

John 6:40

For this is the will of my Father, that every one that beholds the Son, and believes on him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Hebrews 10:14
For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.

 

[Cassian]

I haven't seen any such texts. But the thread is about "eternal security," not "OSAS." There are no texts that deny eternal security for the man who trusts Christ as Savior."

Would you mind telling us Cassian if you have ever read the Bible through even once?

John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

So, if one cannot prove eternal security, then it is not about OSAS which is the very same thing.
Even the way you say it is correct because it always deals with the present tense. You are correct there are no texts that deny eternal security for the man who trusts Christ as Savior.
The problem with your view is that many who trusted Christ for many years, suddenly fall away which is clearlly explained in scripture with actual examples, exhortations to remain faithful.

Then you ask a question again, which was answered for you in the post to which your are responding. So much for your reading ability.
John 5:24 does not support eternal security/OSAS in the least. It is again in the present tense, continuous action. It says nothing about having it absolutely guaranteed to the end, but ONLY in the present tense. I have already posted many texts that clearly shows man must work with God to attain eternal life. If we do not follow Him, we are no longer IN Him. Not anything to difficult to understand.

You are living in a dream world. You will not find a single text that supports OSAS/eternal security in any of its versions.

You keep ciding me about proof and reading scripture and citing proof texts, but you have yet to cite even one, so where is your proof?

 

[Atwood]

What is the Final Authority on Eternal Security?

It seems evident that for a couple of posters, the final authority is not the Bible, but their organization, perhaps the RCC or "Eastern Orthodoxy" (= EO). I say that because so much of the time they just run-on pontificating, instead of quoting scripture and arguing from the Bible. Perhaps they should come clean and say up front that quoting the Bible means nothing to them, because the RCC or EO has the final say in what doctrine is. Occasionally they may make vague references to scripture or actually quote a verse, even a verse which says nothing about eternal life or salvation.

I have posted a ton of scripture on the subject now. If the reader is not convinced by reading the scripture, I see little hope that my statements are going to make much difference.

But
I know Whom I have believed,
And am persuaded that He is able,
To keep that which He has committed
To me against that day.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

I'm just continually being amazed by the most unscriptural statements I have heard in a long time.

Sin has nothing to do with my salvation.

Sin is the test of our faith. It is the ONLY way a person can lose faith. Losing faith is sin, not being obedient, not doing the will of God. Christ atoned for sin so that man and God could be reunited in this life. His sacrifice provides the means by which Christ, as our High Priest, can forgive our sins. He does NOT forgive sins without our confession. Which is why man falls. He returns to his sinful habits, rationalizes sin out of existence and goes on his merry way, all the while thinking he is in Christ. Those are the same ones in Matt 24 the parable of the last Judgement will be told that they were never known.

Sin is walking in the flesh instead of the Spirit; sin is walking in darkness instead of the light and it breaks fellowship with the Father and the Son - The whole of 1 John 1 concerns broken fellowship. Man and God are reconciled by the new birth - when that Spirit is created in you - you are reconciled. Jesus Christ is our High Priest and DOES forgive sin. Why does everyone think that those that believe in OSAS live in sin? I don't know about you but when I sin, I feel remorse and ask for forgiveness. I have said repeatedly that I am not condoning living in sin. My heart's desire is to never sin against God, myself, or others and that is what I endeavor to do - if I do sin God has made provision. I am still his child I am chastised [grounded so to speak] until I ask for forgiveness.

What I am saying is that once that Spirit is born within you; it is incorruptible, it is eternal. I would also like to mention that sometimes we may not recognize that something we did was a sin . . . what do we do about those sins? What if there is ONE sin that we have failed to ask forgiveness?

 

[Mammachickadee]

Probably many of us are annoyed by threads being started with false statements, like OSAS is of satan. Then it is in our face all the time while we present scriptural proof how that if you are saved you are saved!

The reason why this denial is heresy is that it denies the very concept of salvation and that the Lord Jesus is our Savior. Those who take that route have distorted the meaning of salvation and savior. Such a denial is evidence that a man does not trust Christ as His Savior. But salvation is something we must have; we will not receive validation of our life's works.

To be sure, grace is an offense to the pride of man, since a corollary of grace (favor contrary to what we deserve) is the depravity of man. This explains why men despise grace, the idea that eternal life is a free gift to those who trust Christ as Savior. Men do not want to admit the depth of their depravity. But the idea that after judgment a man would be validated on the basis of his life's works and then do God a favor by entering Heaven, is a serious error. Man must have salvation, not validation of life. We must admit that our depravity is so profound that we must be saved by grace.

Salvation is not something one receives after an examination and judgment of works, salvation starts with a new birth and includes eternal life right now in this life. "the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable."

Rom 8:

For whom
he foreknew,
he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom he foreordained, them
he also called: and whom he called, them
he also justified: and whom he justified, them
he also glorified.


What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? He Who spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall He not also with him freely give us all things? Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth; who is he that condemneth? It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Even as it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.


Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities,
nor things present, nor things to come,
nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

While I agree completely with the argument that doubting eternal salvation as the rule of salvation is a defiance of the very nature of salvation I'm not sure I agree that it is heresy. One would think that questioning the permanence of salvation as questioning the promise and permanence of salvation would be unpardonable... but isn't heresy something reserved for those who are undoubtedly not of God/ false teachers? To declare emphatically that one who doesn't believe in eternal security is a heretic also denies the permanence of salvation and promise of God to always give grace to the justified. Sometimes God just chooses to love the sinner and use Him for what He so chooses to use him for regardless of his faults. God is not the author of confusion, however, so one who says "an adulterer who claims to be a Christian can't be saved" is questioning God's sovereignty and needs to look at his own faith and imperfection with an equally critical eye.

 

[Atwood]

HE WILL COMPLETE THE WORK IN THE CHRISTIAN!

Philippians 1:6
"And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ."

Luke 21:31-32
"Simon, Simon, behold, Satan asked to have you, that he might sift you as wheat: but I made supplication for you, that your faith fail not; and do you, when once you have turned again, establish your brethren."

"Then I saw in my dream that the INTERPRETER took CHRISTIAN by the hand, and led him to a place where a fire was burning against a wall, and one standing by it was always pouring much water on it to quench it; yet the fire burned higher and hotter.

"Chr. Then CHRISTIAN asked, "What does this mean?"

"Inter. The INTERPRETER answered, "This fire is the work of grace that is worked in the heart; he that pours water upon it to extinguish and put it out, is the devil: but in that you see the fire burn higher and hotter in spite of the water, you shall also see the reason of that." So he took him around to the backside of the wall, where he saw a man with a vessel of oil in his hand, which he also continually threw into the fire, but secretly.

"Chr. Then CHRISTIAN asked, "What does this mean?"

"Inter. The INTERPRETER answered, "This is Christ, who continually with the oil of his grace maintains the work already begun in the heart: by the means of which the souls of his people prove gracious still, in spite of what the devil can do.

"And He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me." 2 Corinthians 12:9

"And the man you saw standing behind the wall to maintain the fire; this is to teach you, that it is hard for the tempted to see how this work of grace is maintained in the soul."
- Pilgrim's Progress

Luke 21:31-32
Simon, Simon, behold, Satan asked to have you*, that he might sift you* as wheat: but I made supplication for you, that your faith fail not; and do you, when once you have turned again, establish your brethren.

Philippians 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

 

[Atwood]

Unpardonable was never stated. Christ died for the sins of all men. If one trusts Christ as Savior, all sins are pardoned, even if the sin is teaching false doctrine. Christians disagree on many things with no obligation to separate or excommunicate. But if a man does not trust Christ as his Savior, then he may not be recognized as a Christian. Those who deny eternal security, deny that Christ is their Savior -- for them He is one who gives them a chance at being saved, not their Savior.