It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

Atwood · Jun 10, 2014

Toothfully, ruthfully, truthfully, snaggle-tooth truth, NewB.

It is time to stop worrying about this or that and to focus on what God's word says about salvation. It says Now is the Day of Salvation, now is the accepted time.

God so loved the world that He gave His unique Son that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

2 Corinthians 1:22
And who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
Romans 11:29
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Philippians 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.
Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

Call out now in faith, NewB

2Thewaters · Jun 10, 2014

What do you mean eternal security?
That is a non biblical statement and Im not sure what you mean

Atwood · Jun 10, 2014

2Thewaters said:

Very biblical.

End of Rom 8:
And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to his purpose. For whom
he foreknew,
he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom
he foreordained, them
he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom
he justified, them
he also glorified.

31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? 3He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things? Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth; who is he that condemneth? It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Even as it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

2 Tim 1:8-9
… God; who saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before times eternal,

2 thes 2:16-17 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace, comfort your hearts and establish them in every good work and word.
Rm 6:23b
the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 10:27-29
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

Alligator · Jun 10, 2014

Atwood said:

1) You have to do good works and you have no excuse! You must do the works in direct obedience to the Lord Jesus, including, "You shall be perfect as the Heavenly Father is perfect! You must do these things. but

2) You do not do good works. There is none righteous, no not one. In fact, before God's standards you and I are vile sinners. It is not that we sin a little hear and there, but Romans 1 describes us in all our depravity.

Now if you insist on doing works for salvation (which in itself is a big disobedience), how are you going to pass the test, being a big sinner who will never pass that test? Or will you delude yourself into believing how righteous you are?

3) Thus you are out of luck, except for grace.

4) Repent: Repentance = metanoia; repent = metanoeō. Meta = after, no => thought. Repentance means change of mind. It does not mean sorrow for sin or resolving to turn over a new leaf. There is another word for repent, not used for salvation, metamelomai, which refers to sorrow for sin. Judas had that one and hanged himself.

Could my tears forever flow,
Could my works no languor know;
These for sin could not atone;
Thou must save & thou alone;
I my hand no price I bring;
Simply to thy cross I cling.

5) You must repent, change your mind from trusting in water baptism or any other human work. You must repent, change your mind from not trusting the Lord Jesus with your eternal destiny to trusting Him with it.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved.
There is no other

Atwood, if I wanted a sermon from you I would ask for it. Got it? Don't hold your breath. This is a forum to discuss Bible issues, not preach to each other. Quite frankly, I disdain your self righteous attitude.

fredjames · Jun 10, 2014

Atwood said:

Eternal Security is assured to all who have been called according to the "author and finisher of our faith", LORD JESUS CHRIST of the 'inspired' written 'New Covenant'. Unless one 'abides/continue' in HIS 'words' and 'love', written justification, 'just and fair Scripture', for our New baptized growing stature and witnessing to the world as salt and light.
Sadly other than that practicing living apart from 'My Words', "you can do nothing without ME, for I AM that I AM even to Moses, now in the Likeness and Fullness of the LIVING GOD our FATHER, called in redemption, confessing and have confessed, as it is written to everyone in faith knowledge after that, witnessing and doing first, in their lives practicing 'All Scripture' and to be 'fully equipped and fully trained to do all kind Good deeds' onto others who are lost".

Apart from all of these that 'I' have confessed and authored and finished and even through 'My Apostles for My church' and is written witnessing in the 'New Covenant', is considered as 'Lawlessness', accumulating trouble for 'one-self' on judgement day.

"I only obey My FATHER and do HIS will."

"If you have ears, listen and pay attention."

"Be alert and stay awake."

"Come into the Light, while the Light is still with you, because when 'gross darkness' takes over, you will not stumble."

"How much longer must I be with you and how much longer must I put up with you, 'o ye' of little faith knowledge and action faith, according the New Covenant, by the Help of the HOLY SPIRIT, the anointing placed in you, for 'eternal security', to share in the 'FATHER's place of rest' in the future?"

i fredjames, in humble and humility, am merely an unworthy and undeserving servant of GOD for CHRIST, just doing my given duty to help you in this forum, about the MASTER's reminder and the stirring up of memory regarding the written Scripture, as justification of one's faith and in action, whether approved or disapproved, in order to be sharpened.

Atwood · Jun 10, 2014

Alligator said:

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, not of works lest anyone should boast.

The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as the rest of men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week; I give tithes of all that I get. But the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes to heaven, but smote his breast, saying, God, be thou merciful to me a sinner. I say to you, This man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one who exalts himself shall be humbled; but he who humbles himself shall be exalted.

I take my stand with the Publican. My security in Christ depends on His faithfulness to His promise, not any self-righteous good works. I am a sinner saved by grace.

Come ye sinners
Tired & weary,
Weak & wounded,
Sick & sore;
If you tarry till your better,
You will never come at all.
Not the righteous,
Not the righteous,
Sinners Jesus came to call.

fredjames · Jun 10, 2014

"..........................., but only 'a few' are chosen."

Atwood · Jun 10, 2014

Originally Posted by Atwood

WANT TO BE JUDGED FOR YOUR WORKS?

I do not regret to inform you that the problem with justification by works is that neither you, nor I, nor anyone else will ever be justified by Works at the Bar of God's Judgment. Maybe you think that you just slip up a tad now and then. But your good works are so much more! Well pick up the pipe and smoke Roman starting in ch 1 on just how bad you and I have been, and apart from God's grace we will not get better. Do you not know that the works of man are a stench in the nostrils of the Almighty?

8 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hinder the truth in unrighteousness; 19 because that which is known of God is manifest in them; for God manifested it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse: 21 because that, knowing God, they glorified him not as God, neither gave thanks; but became vain in their reasonings, and their senseless heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God for the likeness of an image of corruptible man, and of birds, and four-footed beasts, and creeping things.

24 Wherefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts unto uncleanness, that their bodies should be dishonored among themselves: 25 for that they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile passions: for their women changed the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men working unseemliness, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was due.

28 And even as they refused to have God in their knowledge, God gave them up unto
a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all
unrighteousness,
wickedness,
covetousness,
maliciousness;
full of envy,
murder,
strife,
deceit,
malignity;
whisperers,
backbiters,
hateful to God,
insolent,
haughty,
boastful,
inventors of evil things,
disobedient to parents,
without understanding,
covenant-breakers,
without natural affection,
unmerciful:
who, knowing the ordinance of God, that they that practise such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but also consent with them that practise them.

Wherefore thou art without excuse, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest dost practise the same things. 2 And we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against them that practise such things. 3 And reckonest thou this, O man, who judgest them that practise such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? 4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? 5 but after

thy hardness and
impenitent heart

treasurest up for thyself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; 6 who will render to every man according to his works: 7 to them that by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and incorruption, eternal life: 8 but unto them that are factious, and obey not the truth, but obey unrighteousness, shall be wrath and indignation, 9 tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that worketh evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Greek; 10 but glory and honor and peace to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek: 11 for there is no respect of persons with God. 12 For

as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without the law: and
as many as have sinned under the law shall be judged by the law;

13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified: …

9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we before laid to the charge both of Jews and Greeks, that

they are all under sin;
as it is written,
There is none righteous, no, not one;
There is none that understandeth,
There is none that seeketh after God;
They have all turned aside, they are together become unprofitable;
There is none that doeth good, no, not so much as one:
Their throat is an open sepulchre;
With their tongues they have used deceit:
The poison of asps is under their lips:
Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
Their feet are swift to shed blood;
Destruction and misery are in their ways;
And the way of peace have they not known:
There is no fear of God before their eyes.

Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it speaketh to them that are under the law; that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may be brought under the judgment of God: because by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified in his sight; for through the law cometh the knowledge of sin.

Alligator said:

The post is in response to those who want to get eternal life by their good works. The post I made illustrates the folly of that approach by its description of such wanters. It is like ugly-to-the-bone women (with monstrous deformities) insisting on entering a beauty contest.

To the general reader of this thread, who admits his desperate need:

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish;
that is His promise, that is an essential part of the definition of the Savior.
He can be trusted with your eternal destiny.
Do so today.

newbirth · Jun 10, 2014

RickyZ said:

nobody likes the truth but there is only one repentance to being born again that will purge us from our past sins
2 Peter 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

after that we are responsible for any sin we commit. Now we have an advocate however we are always told do not sin , yield your members to righteousness, do that which is good, do not practice sinsin we commit. Now we have an advocate however we are always told do not sin , yield your members to righteousness, do that which is good, do not practice sin.
1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
To those who reject God however Rom 1 is very clear,,, [SUP]28 [/SUP]And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
And so is 2 Pet 2

[SUP]20 [/SUP]For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

We are told not to grieve the holy spirit..
.Ephesians 4:30

And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
But more important ...
1 Thessalonians 5:19 Quench not the Spirit.
If that fire goes out how will you bring it to life again?

newbirth · Jun 10, 2014

BenFTW said:

At what point, through discipleship, is one [spiritually] mature enough to be considered saved? Do you see the problem with this line of thinking? If discipleship is the measure by which we are saved, we have to determine at what point is salvation ours. Is salvation ours in Christ, or is it in our discipleship? To where do you put your faith? If one fails to be a disciple, have they then lost their salvation? What of Peter, who denied Christ three times? You may say, "Yes, but he returned." Indeed, so is our salvation lost and then gained, moments at a time? In and out, saved and then condemned? Or, will you take what the Word says and believe it, that "There is therefore now no condemnation in Christ Jesus"?

Salvation is independent of all things, and completely dependent upon Christ, our discipleship is the means by which we mature, but [lack of] maturity does not negate sonship. A child is a son, or daughter, at birth, not after maturing. In the same way, we a born-again, by the Spirit of Adoption, and have become children of God. Our maturity is important, but it follows after salvation is ours, and is not a prerequisite to it. We are saved, and therefore, we become disciples, or "learners." Does lack of discipleship, or spiritual maturity cost us our salvation? What do we say of the Corinthians(who were in all manner of sin) and how Paul addressed them and some of the things he said to them?

why leave out vs [SUP]9 [/SUP]God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.
Can you be saved apart from Christ? Is your salvation separate from Christ?
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; [SUP]26 [/SUP]Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
[SUP]27 [/SUP]To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

[SUP]28 [/SUP]Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

Your salvation is in Christ you cannot be saved outside of Christ be it fellowship discipleship love whatever it must be in Christ

Believers Ought to Live as Disciples of Jesus

People who have salvation in Christ have a moral obligation to follow Christ in discipleship. One of the most important calls to discipleship in the Bible is Romans 12:1, which shows us this truth very clearly: “I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.”
Notice that the call is addressed to believers (brethren). Saved people are called to discipleship in this verse. Notice further that the discipleship decision of dedication is voluntary even for believers (I beseech you). It is not automatic that a believer will follow discipleship. But every saved person is morally obligated to give the Lord his total dedication (by the mercies of God). The entire book of Romans before chapter 12 is about the mercies of God by which we are saved. Now, because of them, we who have been saved are urged to live entirely for the One Who died for us. It is our “reasonable service.

A disciple will not betray his master so you don't know what it is to be a disciple.Jesus said follow me disciples follow (emulate) that is a lifestyle when you stop following you are no longer a disciple. Judas stopped being a disciple when he stopped following Christ.

newbirth · Jun 10, 2014

Atwood said:

Toothfully, ruthfully, truthfully, snaggle-tooth truth, NewB.

It is time to stop worrying about this or that and to focus on what God's word says about salvation. It says Now is the Day of Salvation, now is the accepted time.

God so loved the world that He gave His unique Son that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

2 Corinthians 1:22
And who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
Romans 11:29
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Philippians 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.
Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

Call out now in faith, NewB

You choose the doctrine of calvin over the word of God
Go finish your bible according to atwood now ...
you have openly rejected the pure word of God...

Atwood · Jun 10, 2014

Originally Posted by Atwood

Toothfully, ruthfully, truthfully, snaggle-tooth truth, NewB.

It is time to stop worrying about this or that and to focus on what God's word says about salvation. It says Now is the Day of Salvation, now is the accepted time.

God so loved the world that He gave His unique Son that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

2 Corinthians 1:22
And who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
Romans 11:29
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Philippians 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.
Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

Call out now in faith, NewB

newbirth said:

NewB,
The Bible was finished centuries before Calvin. Forget Calvin. Focus on the Word of God and the verse posted, a small sample.

Irrevocable, NewB

Call out now in Faith, Dear NewB

Atwood · Jun 10, 2014

newbirth said:

Well, NewB, you saying something doesn't prove it. If you want to debate the meaning of disciple, then prove your theory. But really it makes no difference to the plan of salvation. And the point was that while salvation is a free gift, discipleship costs all; two different subjects: 1) what to do to get eternal life; 2) how to show your appreciation once you get eternal life.

NewB, why talk yourself out of salvation?
Trust Him with your destiny and receive "saved to the uttermost."
He is able to save to the uttermost! He is not just one who gives you a chance to be saved, but is a real Savior.

Atwood · Jun 10, 2014

newbirth said:

I see no proof. If you say that one change of mind from non-belief to belief brings a new birth that purges us from our past sins, of course that is true. If you claim that His death doesn't pay for all the Christians' sins (past, present, and future), then you have no scripture to prove that one. And then you will be damned to the Lake of Fire -- no one is going to Heaven, for we all sin, and there is no more atonement for sin. He paid for them all once for all.

2 Peter 1:9

Click to expand...

You are saying what is not in 2 Pet 1:9.

Men are ever responsible for their sins. And Christians can expect chastening for persisting in sin instead of confessing them. Of course men are told not to sin (platitude).

1 John 2:1

Click to expand...

It is abundantly clear that our Savior ever lives and keeps on Saving (Rom 5).

This has nothing to do with not being eternally secure. It is the history of men who sinfully rejected God, not those who were saved by the Lord Jesus.

It says nothing about eternal life or losing it. Professed Christians may escape pollutions of the world, venereal disease, etc. for a time; then show that they were never saved to begin with.

[/quote]

Where is we in this passage? It does not apply to persons like you who do not trust the Lord Jesus with their destiny. Though Christians are sealed by the Spriit, and those we give the Spirit mental pain, grief, when we sin, He never leaves or forsakes us. Christians are nevertheless sealed to the day of redemption.

This is a great verse on eternal security. Despite sin (grieving the Holy Spirit, Christians are nevertheless sealed to the Day of Redemption. Praise the Lord for His grace!

grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Atwood · Jun 10, 2014

Someone seems to want to argue over the meaning of disciple and whether or not Judas was a disciple.

" But Judas Iscariot, one of his disciples, that should betray him, saith, Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred shillings, and given to the poor? Now this he said, not because he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and having the bag took away what was put therein."

Judas had a demon.

But it has no effect on the doctrine of eternal security.
Sheep have eternal life and never perish.

Atwood · Jun 10, 2014

The Depravity of Man Has to Do With this thread.

The initial post stated:

To be sure, grace is an offense to the pride of man, since a corollary of grace (favor contrary to what we deserve) is the depravity of man. This explains why men despise grace, the idea that eternal life is a free gift to those who trust Christ as Savior. Men do not want to admit the depth of their depravity. But the idea that after judgment a man would be validated on the basis of his life's works and then do God a favor by entering Heaven, is a serious error. Man must have salvation, not validation of life. We must admit that our depravity is so profound that we must be saved by grace.

mailmandan · Jun 10, 2014

Atwood said:

Amen! Jesus said that Judas is a devil! He spoke of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, for it was he who would betray Him, being one of the twelve (John 6:70-71). But there are some of you who do not believe. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him (vs. 64). In John 13:10-11, we read: Jesus said to him, "He who is bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean, but not all of you." For He knew who would betray Him; therefore He said, "You are not all clean." Judas betrayed Jesus because he was an unbelieving, unclean devil. He didn't lose his salvation. He never had it. In John 8:31, Jesus said - "If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine. Judas did not continue. Judas was not truly His disciple.

Kerry · Jun 10, 2014

mailmandan said:

Amen! Jesus said that Judas is a devil! He spoke of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, for it was he who would betray Him, being one of the twelve (John 6:70-71). But there are some of you who do not believe. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him (vs. 64). In John 13:10-11, we read: Jesus said to him, "He who is bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean, but not all of you." For He knew who would betray Him; therefore He said, "You are not all clean." Judas betrayed Jesus because he was an unbelieving, unclean devil. He didn't lose his salvation. He never had it. In John 8:31, Jesus said - "If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine. Judas did not continue. Judas was not truly His disciple.

Jesus also looked at Peter and said get behind me Satan.

mailmandan · Jun 10, 2014

Kerry said:

Matthew 16:21 From that time Jesus began to show to His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised the third day. 22 Then Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, "Far be it from You, Lord; this shall not happen to You!" 23 But He turned and said to Peter, "Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men."

Jesus may have rebuked Peter for what he said here, but Jesus did not refer to Peter as an unbelieving, unclean devil who would betray him. Jesus also referred to Judas as the son of perdition, but not Peter.

kennethcadwell · Jun 10, 2014

I understand where the debate is coming from about Judas, and Peter and how it ties into this thread. We must simply just take what Jesus said. He said you must persevere to the end to be saved, Him and the Apostles also talked about ones that fell away and why they fell, and Jesus also talked about other ways in which it was considered as a rejection of Him.

Example is in Matthew 25, Jesus talks to those who did not do for others and cast them out for not doing so. These people believed in Jesus, but still were rejected because they rejected others.

It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

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