Jesus AND the Bible came into time as a SEED - by G. John Rov

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Laish

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2016
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I believe what the more "original" texts proclaim, the KJV Bible was overseen by a king who was known in history for his evilness. And I have no doubts his evil influence can be found within the KJV Bible. But we have the Torah/Tanakh (written by actual Scribes), and we have the Aramaic Gospels and Paul's Greek letters. We do not need anything else!
Come on where are you coming up with this garbage? Give us some credible documentation? Talking books with ISBN numbers published by reputable authors. Historically accurate sources as well.
As many can tell you I am not. KJV only guy . I generally don’t use it , still it is a very good translation if you can understand it .
So waiting. For your response.
Bill
 
Apr 5, 2020
2,273
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Come on where are you coming up with this garbage? Give us some credible documentation? Talking books with ISBN numbers published by reputable authors. Historically accurate sources as well.
As many can tell you I am not. KJV only guy . I generally don’t use it , still it is a very good translation if you can understand it .
So waiting. For your response.
Bill


I can show you several places where the KJV does not state anything similar to the original versions. And I am talking where the Aramaic is translated and the Greek follows and the Latin Vulgate follows and the KJV states something not even remotely the same.
 

UnoiAmarah

Junior Member
Jul 28, 2017
511
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Does Jesus say He knows the truth, or that He is the truth?
Ipso facto,

Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God: Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.
John 8:54-55

I am the way and the truth and the life.
Yes, I AM.
  • Jesus said unto them, Verily,verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM. John 8:58
    -------------
And Moses said unto I AM, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?

And the LORD said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM, thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
------------​
  • I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. John 5:43
  • And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him. Deut 18:19
No one comes to the Father except through me (John 14:6).
And no one can come to me except the Holy Ghost that sent me draw him, as written in John 6:44.

"...no man knows the Son, but the Father; neither knows any man the Father, save the Son..." Matt 11:27
 

UnoiAmarah

Junior Member
Jul 28, 2017
511
84
28
I can show you several places where the KJV does not state anything similar to the original versions. And I am talking where the Aramaic is translated and the Greek follows and the Latin Vulgate follows and the KJV states something not even remotely the same.
Please tell. You aren't going to bring up the fowl that goeth upon all four are you? It is really sad to think that people could believe that there are four legged insects.
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
608
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Ipso facto,

Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God: Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.
John 8:54-55



Yes, I AM.
  • Jesus said unto them, Verily,verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM. John 8:58
    -------------
And Moses said unto I AM, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?

And the LORD said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM, thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
------------​

  • I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. John 5:43
  • And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him. Deut 18:19


And no one can come to me except the Holy Ghost that sent me draw him, as written in John 6:44.

"...no man knows the Son, but the Father; neither knows any man the Father, save the Son..." Matt 11:27
Amen!
 
Apr 5, 2020
2,273
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Please tell. You aren't going to bring up the fowl that goeth upon all four are you? It is really sad to think that people could believe that there are four legged insects.


Hahahahaha no, I am talking Scriptures who many have built their entire faith upon.
 

ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
Sep 19, 2011
3,207
58
48
"Both Jesus and the Bible came as a seed into the world and grew over time to perfection."


This is an unbiblical statement, As I said Jesus and the Word of God ARE Perfect. As the word of God says:


Matthew 5:48

Psalms 18:30
It is not unbiblical at all, CS1. I will provide the Scripture that affirms that they both came into time:


Luke 2:8-14 King James Bible
And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night. {9} And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid. {10} And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. {11} For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. {12} And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger. {13} And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying, {14} Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.

In the above Scripture, we see here that Christ the Lord was born into this world, and hence, He came from Eternity into time.

Let’s look at another Scripture which affirms this truth:

John 7:21-44 King James Bible
Jesus answered and said unto them, I have done one work, and ye all marvel. {22} Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers;) and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man. {23} If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day? {24} Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment. {25} Then said some of them of Jerusalem, Is not this he, whom they seek to kill? {26} But, lo, he speaketh boldly, and they say nothing unto him. Do the rulers know indeed that this is the very Christ? {27} Howbeit we know this man whence he is: but when Christ cometh, no man knoweth whence he is. {28} Then cried Jesus in the temple as he taught, saying, Ye both know me, and ye know whence I am: and I am not come of myself, but he that sent me is true, whom ye know not. {29} But I know him: for I am from him, and he hath sent me. {30} Then they sought to take him: but no man laid hands on him, because his hour was not yet come. {31} And many of the people believed on him, and said, When Christ cometh, will he do more miracles than these which this man hath done? {32} ¶ The Pharisees heard that the people murmured such things concerning him; and the Pharisees and the chief priests sent officers to take him. {33} Then said Jesus unto them, Yet a little while am I with you, and then I go unto him that sent me. {34} Ye shall seek me, and shall not find me: and where I am, thither ye cannot come. {35} Then said the Jews among themselves, Whither will he go, that we shall not find him? will he go unto the dispersed among the Gentiles, and teach the Gentiles? {36} What manner of saying is this that he said, Ye shall seek me, and shall not find me: and where I am, thither ye cannot come? {37} In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. {38} He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. {39} (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) {40} ¶ Many of the people therefore, when they heard this saying, said, Of a truth this is the Prophet. {41} Others said, This is the Christ. But some said, Shall Christ come out of Galilee? {42} Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was? {43} So there was a division among the people because of him. {44} And some of them would have taken him; but no man laid hands on him."


And so now that we have seen Scripture that affirms that Christ Jesus came into time as a seed. Now let’s look at Scripture which doth affirm that Jesus also grew unto perfection over time:

Luke 2:46-52 King James Bible
And it came to pass, that after three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the doctors, both hearing them, and asking them questions. {47} And all that heard him were astonished at his understanding and answers. {48} And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing. {49} And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father’s business? {50} And they understood not the saying which he spake unto them. {51} And he went down with them, and came to Nazareth, and was subject unto them: but his mother kept all these sayings in her heart. {52} And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man."



Luke 2:34-40 King James Bible
And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against; {35} (Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,) that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed. {36} And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser: she was of a great age, and had lived with an husband seven years from her virginity; {37} And she was a widow of about fourscore and four years, which departed not from the temple, but served God with fastings and prayers night and day. {38} And she coming in that instant gave thanks likewise unto the Lord, and spake of him to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem. {39} And when they had performed all things according to the law of the Lord, they returned into Galilee, to their own city Nazareth. {40} And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him."


Notice CS1, that the above Scripture clearly says that the child (Jesus) grew and waxed strong in spirit. Let’s look at another Scripture though concerning Jesus’ growth and maturity unto perfection:


Hebrews 5:5-10 King James Bible
So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee. As he saith also in another [place], Thou [art] a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.


CS1, how much clearer can that Holy Scripture be?
 

ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
Sep 19, 2011
3,207
58
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Now let’s look at Scripture which teach that the word of God (Holy Scripture) came into time as a seed and that grew and increased unto perfection:

Isaiah 59:20-21 King James Bible
And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD. {21} As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed’s seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever."



Luke 8:4-15 King James Bible
And when much people were gathered together, and were come to him out of every city, he spake by a parable: {5} A sower went out to sow his seed: and as he sowed, some fell by the way side; and it was trodden down, and the fowls of the air devoured it. {6} And some fell upon a rock; and as soon as it was sprung up, it withered away, because it lacked moisture. {7} And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprang up with it, and choked it. {8} And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit an hundredfold. And when he had said these things, he cried, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear. {9} And his disciples asked him, saying, What might this parable be? {10} And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand. {11} Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. {12} Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. {13} They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away. {14} And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection. {15} But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience."



Acts 12:24-25 King James Bible
But the word of God grew and multiplied.
{25} And Barnabas and Saul returned from Jerusalem, when they had fulfilled their ministry, and took with them John, whose surname was Mark."


Acts 19:17-20 King James Bible
And this was known to all the Jews and Greeks also dwelling at Ephesus; and fear fell on them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was magnified. {18} And many that believed came, and confessed, and shewed their deeds. {19} Many of them also which used curious arts brought their books together, and burned them before all men: and they counted the price of them, and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver. {20} So mightily grew the word of God and prevailed.


2 Timothy 3:16-17 King James Bible
All scripture
is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: {17} That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.


1 Peter 1:23-25 King James Bible
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. {24} For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: {25} But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you."


From the following Scriptures I just shared, it should obvious that both Jesus Christ (The Word) and the Holy Scripture (The word) both came from eternity into time as a seed, and that they both went through a process of growth and increase.


The idea that one would even say that Jesus and the word of God came as a seed over time and over time grew to perfection means that it was not fully perfect to begin with. That is foolish, that statement has nothing to do with the Trinity so please don't go their. I fully believe in the Trinity as a Biblical concept shown in the word of God. As I said, hog wash and unbiblical .


Happy Easter HE is alive

Now CS1, I just gave you clear Scripture which supports my position and the O.P. of this thread, which again is that: Jesus and the Bible came as a seed and both grew unto perfection.

CS1, I should also point this out again, both Jesus and the word of God have two natures (a hypostatic union). As God, Jesus has always been perfect and always will be perfect. And yet as a Man, as a Son, the Scripture saith that He learned obedience through the things which he suffered. And the blessed Scripture even goes onto say that Jesus was made perfect through the process of time and through His sufferings which He experienced as the Son of Man (i.e. His Human nature, His humanity). Hence, as a Man, Jesus did grow and increase in stature and in wisdom, and In favour with both God and Man. To understand this mystery, you first must understand the dual nature (Hypostatic Union) of Jesus Christ. Likewise, the word of God (the Holy Scripture) In its divine Form, has always been perfect and has always been in existence. It is Eternal. And yet, the Holy Scripture also came into time, and had also a hypostatic union, where in its human nature, the word of God both grew and increased through the process of time. CS1, Once you have a better understanding of the Hypostatic Union of both the Lord Jesus Christ and His holy word, the Scripture, then I believe you will be able to better understand this unique truth.
 

ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
Sep 19, 2011
3,207
58
48
The identification of a statement as fallacious precludes the need for further refutation.

Dino, you simply are not able to refute what I stated in the O.P. of this thread. If you had Scripture that refuted what was stated in the O.P. I am very sure you would have posted it by now.
 

CS1

Moderator
May 23, 2012
4,969
1,219
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It is not unbiblical at all, CS1. I will provide the Scripture that affirms that they both came into time:


Luke 2:8-14 King James Bible
And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night. {9} And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid. {10} And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. {11} For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. {12} And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger. {13} And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying, {14} Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.

In the above Scripture, we see here that Christ the Lord was born into this world, and hence, He came from Eternity into time.

Let’s look at another Scripture which affirms this truth:

John 7:21-44 King James Bible
Jesus answered and said unto them, I have done one work, and ye all marvel. {22} Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers;) and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man. {23} If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day? {24} Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment. {25} Then said some of them of Jerusalem, Is not this he, whom they seek to kill? {26} But, lo, he speaketh boldly, and they say nothing unto him. Do the rulers know indeed that this is the very Christ? {27} Howbeit we know this man whence he is: but when Christ cometh, no man knoweth whence he is. {28} Then cried Jesus in the temple as he taught, saying, Ye both know me, and ye know whence I am: and I am not come of myself, but he that sent me is true, whom ye know not. {29} But I know him: for I am from him, and he hath sent me. {30} Then they sought to take him: but no man laid hands on him, because his hour was not yet come. {31} And many of the people believed on him, and said, When Christ cometh, will he do more miracles than these which this man hath done? {32} ¶ The Pharisees heard that the people murmured such things concerning him; and the Pharisees and the chief priests sent officers to take him. {33} Then said Jesus unto them, Yet a little while am I with you, and then I go unto him that sent me. {34} Ye shall seek me, and shall not find me: and where I am, thither ye cannot come. {35} Then said the Jews among themselves, Whither will he go, that we shall not find him? will he go unto the dispersed among the Gentiles, and teach the Gentiles? {36} What manner of saying is this that he said, Ye shall seek me, and shall not find me: and where I am, thither ye cannot come? {37} In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. {38} He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. {39} (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) {40} ¶ Many of the people therefore, when they heard this saying, said, Of a truth this is the Prophet. {41} Others said, This is the Christ. But some said, Shall Christ come out of Galilee? {42} Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was? {43} So there was a division among the people because of him. {44} And some of them would have taken him; but no man laid hands on him."


And so now that we have seen Scripture that affirms that Christ Jesus came into time as a seed. Now let’s look at Scripture which doth affirm that Jesus also grew unto perfection over time:

Luke 2:46-52 King James Bible
And it came to pass, that after three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the doctors, both hearing them, and asking them questions. {47} And all that heard him were astonished at his understanding and answers. {48} And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing. {49} And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father’s business? {50} And they understood not the saying which he spake unto them. {51} And he went down with them, and came to Nazareth, and was subject unto them: but his mother kept all these sayings in her heart. {52} And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man."



Luke 2:34-40 King James Bible
And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against; {35} (Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,) that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed. {36} And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser: she was of a great age, and had lived with an husband seven years from her virginity; {37} And she was a widow of about fourscore and four years, which departed not from the temple, but served God with fastings and prayers night and day. {38} And she coming in that instant gave thanks likewise unto the Lord, and spake of him to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem. {39} And when they had performed all things according to the law of the Lord, they returned into Galilee, to their own city Nazareth. {40} And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him."


Notice CS1, that the above Scripture clearly says that the child (Jesus) grew and waxed strong in spirit. Let’s look at another Scripture though concerning Jesus’ growth and maturity unto perfection:


Hebrews 5:5-10 King James Bible
So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee. As he saith also in another [place], Thou [art] a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.


CS1, how much clearer can that Holy Scripture be?
wrong !!!! and you can post even more taken out of context scriptures.

"Both Jesus and the Bible came as a seed into the world and grew over time to perfection."

Your statement in red is not Biblical. You are mixing the Perfect word of God and the Perfect God Man to the completeness or accomplished word of God with maturity of man.

That is your error. If you would have said the word became Filled over time that would be correct. But the Word of God has been and always been Perfect. You have incorrectly asserted mans understanding as to making the word of God perfect. That is not true. Man does not validate the word of God with his human understanding nor does it limit the word of God because of mans ignorance. Jesus knew full well why HE came, HE was slain at the foundations of the world. That means God had ordained it from eternity. The Spirit of Christ was perfect and has always been perfect. To suggest Jesus was not " Perfect" means to say HE was imperfect. You can spiritualize and read into the word of God this false narrative, however, You cannot separate the deity of Christ which is and always will be perfect.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
14,143
7,608
113

Dino, you simply are not able to refute what I stated in the O.P. of this thread. If you had Scripture that refuted what was stated in the O.P. I am very sure you would have posted it by now.
I haven't bothered addressing this tripe further, because it's worthless. Even if it were the truth (which it is not), it would have no value in bringing people to the saving knowledge of Jesus or toward growth in Him. It's angels on pinheads.
 

CS1

Moderator
May 23, 2012
4,969
1,219
113
Now let’s look at Scripture which teach that the word of God (Holy Scripture) came into time as a seed and that grew and increased unto perfection:

Isaiah 59:20-21 King James Bible
And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD. {21} As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed’s seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever."



Luke 8:4-15 King James Bible
And when much people were gathered together, and were come to him out of every city, he spake by a parable: {5} A sower went out to sow his seed: and as he sowed, some fell by the way side; and it was trodden down, and the fowls of the air devoured it. {6} And some fell upon a rock; and as soon as it was sprung up, it withered away, because it lacked moisture. {7} And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprang up with it, and choked it. {8} And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit an hundredfold. And when he had said these things, he cried, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear. {9} And his disciples asked him, saying, What might this parable be? {10} And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand. {11} Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. {12} Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. {13} They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away. {14} And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection. {15} But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience."



Acts 12:24-25 King James Bible
But the word of God grew and multiplied.
{25} And Barnabas and Saul returned from Jerusalem, when they had fulfilled their ministry, and took with them John, whose surname was Mark."


Acts 19:17-20 King James Bible
And this was known to all the Jews and Greeks also dwelling at Ephesus; and fear fell on them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was magnified. {18} And many that believed came, and confessed, and shewed their deeds. {19} Many of them also which used curious arts brought their books together, and burned them before all men: and they counted the price of them, and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver. {20} So mightily grew the word of God and prevailed.


2 Timothy 3:16-17 King James Bible
All scripture
is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: {17} That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.


1 Peter 1:23-25 King James Bible
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. {24} For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: {25} But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you."


From the following Scriptures I just shared, it should obvious that both Jesus Christ (The Word) and the Holy Scripture (The word) both came from eternity into time as a seed, and that they both went through a process of growth and increase.





Now CS1, I just gave you clear Scripture which supports my position and the O.P. of this thread, which again is that: Jesus and the Bible came as a seed and both grew unto perfection.

CS1, I should also point this out again, both Jesus and the word of God have two natures (a hypostatic union). As God, Jesus has always been perfect and always will be perfect. And yet as a Man, as a Son, the Scripture saith that He learned obedience through the things which he suffered. And the blessed Scripture even goes onto say that Jesus was made perfect through the process of time and through His sufferings which He experienced as the Son of Man (i.e. His Human nature, His humanity). Hence, as a Man, Jesus did grow and increase in stature and in wisdom, and In favour with both God and Man. To understand this mystery, you first must understand the dual nature (Hypostatic Union) of Jesus Christ. Likewise, the word of God (the Holy Scripture) In its divine Form, has always been perfect and has always been in existence. It is Eternal. And yet, the Holy Scripture also came into time, and had also a hypostatic union, where in its human nature, the word of God both grew and increased through the process of time. CS1, Once you have a better understanding of the Hypostatic Union of both the Lord Jesus Christ and His holy word, the Scripture, then I believe you will be able to better understand this unique truth.

Guy you are way off here.

To your point here:

"And yet as a Man, as a Son, the Scripture saith that He learned obedience through the things which he suffered."

The words "Learn" and "obedience" is speaking of HIS cross experiencing the passion and the obedience is speaking of HIS Willingness to endure the cross. I do not need to have an understanding better of the hypostatic Union because it is a theological concept found four time in the New Testament which I did not see you post Hebrew 1:3

"He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,"

The Book Hebrew here in chapter 1:3 is very hard for you to explain why?

Because where Jesus is said " He is the radiance of glory of GOD and the exact imprint of HIS Nature (GOD nature) and upholds the
Universe by the WORD of HIS POWER". I will end right there.

To make the statement Jesus became over time God and made the word of God more perfect as HE became God is wrong.
You do not know the full Nature of God no one can.


The concept at the end of the day is not authoritative, however, it is good to know that Jesus has TWO natures, "perfectly" united,
Body and the Spirit. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit three distinct perfect personification and yet One.


The "Three" are without:
error
sin
confusion
without division
without imperfection.

Fully God fully man without sin = Perfect.
 

CS1

Moderator
May 23, 2012
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Dino, you simply are not able to refute what I stated in the O.P. of this thread. If you had Scripture that refuted what was stated in the O.P. I am very sure you would have posted it by now.
yes many have provided scriptural proof to refute this video Allegorizing of the word of God.
 

ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
Sep 19, 2011
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Guy you are way off here.


To your point here:



"And yet as a Man, as a Son, the Scripture saith that He learned obedience through the things which he suffered."



The words "Learn" and "obedience" is speaking of HIS cross experiencing the passion and the obedience is speaking of HIS Willingness to endure the cross. I do not need to have an understanding better of the hypostatic Union because it is a theological concept found four time in the New Testament which I did not see you post Hebrew 1:3



"He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,"



As I mentioned already CS1, the hypostatic union, Jesus being both fully God and fully Man during his 33 years on this earth is a great mystery and we certainly cannot fully understand it. Just like we cannot fully understand the Trinity (Godhead). Just like we also cannot fully understand how Jesus Christ is the Holy Scripture and how the Holy Scripture is Jesus Christ. These are mysteries and deep things which belong unto God.


The Book Hebrew here in chapter 1:3 is very hard for you to explain why?
Because where Jesus is said " He is the radiance of glory of GOD and the exact imprint of HIS Nature (GOD nature) and upholds the


Universe by the WORD of HIS POWER". I will end right there.




To make the statement Jesus became over time God and made the word of God more perfect as HE became God is wrong.


You do not know the full Nature of God no one can.



CS1, I did not make the statement that Jesus became God over time. Jesus was fully God and fully Man at the same time (Hypostatic Union). That is what I have been saying all along. It is a great mystery. Therefore, I understand that both you and I cannot fully know nor can we understand completely the Nature of God. Just as you and I cannot fully understand, nor comprehend the Nature of the Bible (Holy Scripture).


What I stated, is that Jesus as the Son of Man, grew and was made perfect over time, and that He learned obedience by the things which He suffered, as just it says in Hebrews 5:8.


The concept at the end of the day is not authoritative, however, it is good to know that Jesus has TWO natures, "perfectly" united,


Body and the Spirit. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit three distinct perfect personification and yet One.

CS1, the main issue of today is Authority. Who has the Final Authority.? Now I know who has the Final Authority. It is both Jesus Christ and the word of God, the King James Holy Bible.



The "Three" are without:


error


sin


confusion


without division


without imperfection.



Fully God fully man without sin = Perfect.


Yes, the Trinity (Godhead) is Perfect and without sin. And Indeed, Jesus Christ also was without sin on this earth.


And Scripture tells us that Jesus as the Son of Man grew and increased in Stature and wisdom (Luke 2:52) and that He was perfected (Hebrews 5:8-9).


Jesus Christ Himself even spoke of the Perfection that He as the Son of Man would enter into after his suffering and death on the cross:


Luke 13:31-32
¶ The same day there came certain of the Pharisees, saying unto him, Get thee out, and depart hence: for Herod will kill thee. {32} And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.


Luke 24:24-26
And certain of them which were with us went to the sepulchre, and found it even so as the women had said: but him they saw not. {25} Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: {26} Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
 

ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
Sep 19, 2011
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I haven't bothered addressing this tripe further, because it's worthless. Even if it were the truth (which it is not), it would have no value in bringing people to the saving knowledge of Jesus or toward growth in Him. It's angels on pinheads.
Dino, you are not addressing it, because you simply have no Scripture that refutes my statement in the O.P.

The unique Truth which I stated in the O.P. is good for all Christians to know and comprehend. We should want to know more about the very nature of Jesus Christ and the Nature of His word, the Holy Scripture. If people are going to know the true Jesus Christ, then they must get to know Him through the word of God. You cannot know Jesus Christ apart from His word, the Holy Scripture.


If we love Jesus, we will love the Holy Bible. If we love Jesus Christ, we will keep His words. And just as no one can get saved without Jesus Christ, likewise, no one can get saved without the word of God.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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Dino, you are not addressing it, because you simply have no Scripture that refutes my statement in the O.P.
I don't need Scripture once I have identified it as worthless, which I have.
 

ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
Sep 19, 2011
3,207
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wrong !!!! and you can post even more taken out of context scriptures.



"Both Jesus and the Bible came as a seed into the world and grew over time to perfection."


Your statement in red is not Biblical. You are mixing the Perfect word of God and the Perfect God Man to the completeness or accomplished word of God with maturity of man.


CS1, I understand that both the word of God (Scripture) and Word of God (Jesus Christ) have both always been perfect and complete in their Divine Nature.



That is your error. If you would have said the word became Filled over time that would be correct. But the Word of God has been and always been Perfect.

Yes, both the word of God (Scripture) and Word of God (Jesus Christ) have always been in existence and they were both always both perfect and divine. But when Both the word of God and the Word of God came into time and when they were both given a human nature and a body, they both then went through a process of growth and perfection. This truth has not been refuted at all.




You have incorrectly asserted mans understanding as to making the word of God perfect. That is not true. Man does not validate the word of God with his human understanding nor does it limit the word of God because of mans ignorance. Jesus knew full well why HE came, HE was slain at the foundations of the world. That means God had ordained it from eternity. The Spirit of Christ was perfect and has always been perfect. To suggest Jesus was not " Perfect" means to say HE was imperfect.

Like I already mentioned CS1, I understand that both Jesus Christ the Word of God and the Holy Scripture have always been perfect, complete, divine, and that they both are Eternal, having no beginning. And when both the Scripture and Jesus Christ the Word came into time and when they both received a human nature, they would both go through a process of seed stage, growth and perfection. Both the Scripture and Jesus Christ already had perfection in their Divine Nature. Jesus as God was already perfect. But Jesus Christ as a Man (Son of Man) would go through the process of growth, suffering and perfection as well as glorification.



You can spiritualize and read into the word of God this false narrative, however, You cannot separate the deity of Christ which is and always will be perfect.

CS1, you still misunderstand my O.P. I never separated the deity of Jesus Christ form his Person. I clearly said that Jesus Christ was BOTH God and Man at the same time while on Earth. This is exactly why I made such a big emphasis on the Hypostatic union and explained that In order to understand the truth stated in the O.P.; that you must understand the Hypostatic (dual Nature) which both Jesus Christ and His word (the Holy Scripture) possessed.
 

ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
Sep 19, 2011
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I don't need Scripture once I have identified it as worthless, which I have.
Dino, seeing that you already possess such a low view of the Bible, it certainly does not surprise me that you would be so quick to reject the truth which I posted in the O.P.

You cannot even answer the simple question as to whether or not you believe that there is a perfect Bible today.
 

CS1

Moderator
May 23, 2012
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As I mentioned already CS1, the hypostatic union, Jesus being both fully God and fully Man during his 33 years on this earth is a great mystery and we certainly cannot fully understand it. Just like we cannot fully understand the Trinity (Godhead). Just like we also cannot fully understand how Jesus Christ is the Holy Scripture and how the Holy Scripture is Jesus Christ. These are mysteries and deep things which belong unto God.





CS1, I did not make the statement that Jesus became God over time. Jesus was fully God and fully Man at the same time (Hypostatic Union). That is what I have been saying all along. It is a great mystery. Therefore, I understand that both you and I cannot fully know nor can we understand completely the Nature of God. Just as you and I cannot fully understand, nor comprehend the Nature of the Bible (Holy Scripture).


What I stated, is that Jesus as the Son of Man, grew and was made perfect over time, and that He learned obedience by the things which He suffered, as just it says in Hebrews 5:8.





CS1, the main issue of today is Authority. Who has the Final Authority.? Now I know who has the Final Authority. It is both Jesus Christ and the word of God, the King James Holy Bible.







Yes, the Trinity (Godhead) is Perfect and without sin. And Indeed, Jesus Christ also was without sin on this earth.


And Scripture tells us that Jesus as the Son of Man grew and increased in Stature and wisdom (Luke 2:52) and that He was perfected (Hebrews 5:8-9).


Jesus Christ Himself even spoke of the Perfection that He as the Son of Man would enter into after his suffering and death on the cross:

Luke 13:31-32
¶ The same day there came certain of the Pharisees, saying unto him, Get thee out, and depart hence: for Herod will kill thee. {32} And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.


Luke 24:24-26
And certain of them which were with us went to the sepulchre, and found it even so as the women had said: but him they saw not. {25} Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: {26} Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?

what you do not understand is

What I stated, is that Jesus as the Son of Man, grew and was made perfect over time, and that He learned obedience by the things which He suffered, as just it says in Hebrews 5:8.

is not correct. IF He was made perfect then he was not perfect. And You do not have a clear understanding of Scriptures in context to the word " Perfect" for example "HE grew in wisdom" the language Grew In = Never was without .

Just like the word perfect in context means completing.