Jesus and the Bible

homwardbound · Sep 22, 2013

Re: Jesus IS God in the Koran!

Whether done by the Spirit of God through us or by self
All self works will burn up and suffer loss. All God spirit works will not burn up
Yet finally we all ourselves must go through the fire for wither to burn up there and suffer total loss or be approved by God because we believed in Son that saved us from our sins through his death.
Colossians 1:22 in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

homwardbound · Sep 22, 2013

Sleepy said:

Yet he is the only way to Father, whether God or not in your opinion, is the below truth or not?
John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Bowman · Sep 22, 2013

homwardbound said:

The trouble with asking a muslim if he believes ANY Bible verse is that he is compelled to answer NO!

Its like asking a Christian if he believes in ANY verse of the Koran.

The only effective way to deal with followers of islam is to discuss their Koran using their own scriptures against them....as they MUST believe in their own book of faith.

Attempting to reason with them via Bible verses is almost futile in this regard...

directline2iam · Sep 22, 2013

Sleepy said:

Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary

1 Cor 15:20-34 All that are by faith united to Christ, are by his resurrection assured of their own. As through the sin of the first Adam, all men became mortal, because all had from him the same sinful nature, so, through the resurrection of Christ, shall all who are made to partake of the Spirit, and the spiritual nature, revive, and live for ever. There will be an order in the resurrection. Christ himself has been the first-fruits; at his coming, his redeemed people will be raised before others; at the last the wicked will rise also. Then will be the end of this present state of things. Would we triumph in that solemn and important season, we must now submit to his rule, accept his salvation, and live to his glory. Then shall we rejoice in the completion of his undertaking, that God may receive the whole glory of our salvation, that we may for ever serve him, and enjoy his favour. What shall those do, who are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? Perhaps baptism is used here in a figure, for afflictions, sufferings, and martyrdom, as Mt 20:22,23. What is, or will become of those who have suffered many and great injuries, and have even lost their lives, for this doctrine of the resurrection, if the dead rise not at all? Whatever the meaning may be, doubtless the apostle's argument was understood by the Corinthians. And it is as plain to us that Christianity would be a foolish profession, if it proposed advantage to themselves by their faithfulness to God; and to have our fruit to holiness, that our end may be everlasting life. But we must not live like beasts, as we do not die like them. It must be ignorance of God that leads any to disbelieve the resurrection and future life. Those who own a God and a providence, and observe how unequal things are in the present life, how frequently the best men fare worst, cannot doubt as to an after-state, where every thing will be set to rights. Let us not be joined with ungodly men; but warn all around us, especially children and young persons, to shun them as a pestilence. Let us awake to righteousness, and not sin.

Pulpit Commentary

Verse 28. - Then shall the Son also himself be subject, etc. The words can only be taken as they stand. The attempts to explain them have usually been nothing but ingenious methods of explaining them away. Of these the one usually adopted by the Fathers is the limitation of the statement to Christ's human nature (John 5:26, 27, 30) and mediatorial kingdom, just as we find in 1 Corinthians 11:3. The head of Christ is God." We can easily "darken counsel by words without knowledge" in dealing with this subject, and hide an absolute ignorance under a semblance of knowledge; but anything and everything which we can say in "explanation" of this self subjection of the Son to the Father is simply involved in the words which follow. That God may be all in all. "All things in all things" or "all things in all men." The words involve a complete and absolute supremacy. It is quite an easy matter for commentators to say that the scope of the words "must be confined to believers," if they chose to make "all" mean "some." Such methods often lead to an irreligious religionism and a heterodox orthodoxy. The reader will find the same phrase in Colossians 3:11. I confine myself to the comment of the profound and saintly Bengel: "There is implied something new, but also supreme and eternal. All things, and therefore all men, without any interruption, no created thing claiming a place, no enemy creating opposition, shall be subordinated to the Son, the Son to the Father. All things shall say, 'God is all things to me.' This is the consummation; this the end and summit. Further than this not even an apostle can go."

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible

And when all things shall be subdued unto him,.... For all things as yet are not put under him in fact; though in right God the Father has given to him an authoritative power over all things, and a right to dispose of them at his pleasure; but all things are not actually and in their full extent subject to him, yet they will be when the last enemy is destroyed: and

then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him; which must be interpreted and understood with great care and caution; not in the Sabellian sense, of refunding of the characters of the Son, and so of the Father unto God; when they suppose these characters, which they imagine to be merely nominal, bare names, will be no more, and God shall be all; but as the Father will always remain a father, so the Son will remain a son; for, as the Son of the Highest, he will reign over his people for ever, and he the Son, as a priest, is consecrated for ever, more: nor in the Eutychian sense, of the change of the human mature into the divine, in which they fancy it will be swallowed up, and God will be all; but Christ will always continue as a man; he went up to heaven as such, and he will return as a man, and be visible to all in the human nature, and in that be the object of the wonderful vision of the saints to all eternity: nor in the Arian sense, according to the divine nature, as if he was in that inferior to the Father, when he is equal with him, has all the perfections he has, and the whole fulness of the Godhead dwelling in him; it is much better and safer to understand it as it commonly is of him, as man; though in this sense, he was always subject to his Father, ever since he was incarnate, whereas this seems to respect something peculiar at this time. Others therefore think, that the church, the mystical body of Christ, is here meant, which in all its members, and these both in soul and body, will be presented and delivered up to God; but the words are spoken of him under whom all things are put, which is not true of the church; and though that is sometimes called Christ, yet never the Son; and besides, the church has been always subject to God, though indeed, it will not be in all its members, and in every respect subject until this time: it is best, therefore to understand it of the Son's giving up the account of his mediatorial kingdom and concerns to his Father; when it will appear that he has in the whole of his conduct and administration been subject to him; that he has in all things acted in his name, done all by his power, and to his honour and glory; and now having accomplished all he undertook and was intrusted with, gives in his account, delivers up his charge, and resigns his office; all which will be plain proofs of his subjection: when I say he will resign or lay aside his office as Mediator, my meaning is not that he will cease to be God-man and Mediator; but that he will cease to administer that office as under God, in the manner he now does: he will be the prophet of the church, but he will not teach by his Spirit, and word, and ordinances as now, but will himself be the immediate light of the saints, he will be a priest for ever, the virtue of his sacrifice and intercession will always remain, but he will not plead and intercede as he now does; he will also reign for ever over and among his saints, but his kingdom will not be a vicarious one, or administered as it now is; nor be only in his hands as Mediator, but with God, Father, Son, and Spirit:

that God may be all in all; for by God is not meant the Father personally, but God essentially considered, Father, Son, and Spirit, who are the one true and living God; to whom all the saints will have immediate access, in whose presence they will be, and with whom they shall have uninterrupted fellowship, without the use of such mediums as they now enjoy; all the three divine Persons will have equal power and government in and over all the saints; they will sit upon one and the same throne; there will be no more acting by a delegated power, or a derived authority: God will be all things to all his saints, immediately without the use of means; he will be that to their bodies as meat and clothes are, without the use of them; and all light, glory, and happiness to their souls, without the use of ordinances, or any means; he will then be all perfection and bliss, to all the elect, and in them all, which he now is not; some are dead in trespasses and sins, and under the power of Satan; the number of them in conversion is not yet completed; and, of those that are called many are in a state of imperfection, and have flesh as well as spirit in them; and of those who are fallen asleep in Christ, though their separate spirits are happy with him, yet their bodies lie in the grave, and under the power of corruption and death; but then all being called by grace, and all being raised, and glorified in soul and body, God will be all in all: this phrase expresses both the perfect government of God, Father, Son, and Spirit, over the saints to all eternity, and their perfect happiness in soul and body, the glory of all which will be ascribed to God; and it will be then seen that all that the Father has done in election, in the council and covenant of peace, were all to the glory of his grace; and that all that the Son has done in the salvation of his people, is all to the glory of the divine perfections: and that all that the Spirit of God has wrought in the saints, and all that they have done under his grace and influence, are all to the praise and glory of God, which will in the most perfect manner be given to the eternal Three in One. The Jews have some expressions somewhat like this, as when they say (i) of God,

"things future, and things that are past, are together with thee; what is from everlasting and to everlasting, or from the beginning of the world to the end of it, these are "all" of them in thee, and thou art "in" them "all".''

So "all", is with the Cabalistic doctors (k), the name of the Lord. And he is so called because all things are in him; "Jovis omnia plena".

(i) R. Judah in Shir Hajichud, fol. 341. 1. apud Seder Tephillot, Ed Basil. (k) Lex. Cabalist. p. 474, 475, 652. Shaare Orah, fol. 6. 1.

Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary

28. Son … himself … subject—not as the creatures are, but as a Son voluntarily subordinate to, though co-equal with, the Father. In the mediatorial kingdom, the Son had been, in a manner, distinct from the Father. Now, His kingdom shall merge in the Father's, with whom He is one; not that there is thus any derogation from His honor; for the Father Himself wills "that all should honor the Son, as they honor the Father" (Joh 5:22, 23; Heb 1:6).

God … all in all—as Christ is all in all (Col 3:11; compare Zec 14:9). Then, and not till then, "all things," without the least infringement of the divine prerogative, shall be subject to the Son, and the Son subordinate to the Father, while co-equally sharing His glory. Contrast Ps 10:4; 14:1. Even the saints do not fully realize God as their "all" (Ps 73:25) now, through desiring it; then each shall feel, God is all to me.

homwardbound · Sep 23, 2013

Bowman said:

Whether you see this or not, but as you post you start the war of flesh and Spirit, that is at war since the fall of Adam and Eve. You claiming to be Spiritual and are really of the flesh. Please re-read your condemnations to Sleepy.
I am not Judging you, I am judging your posts to Sleepy

Is it not the love, kindness of God that leads a man to say no to unrighteousness. Is not God's love beyond this world, and unfathomable. Is what sears the conscious?
Hop[e you see this from God in God's type of love best described in 1 cor. 13

homwardbound · Sep 23, 2013

Sleepy, GOD just love you and all peoples, praying for you to know this, and thus love all back as God loves you unconditionally, knowing myself what this does and did to me. The changes WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! All in love to you.

Bowman · Sep 24, 2013

homwardbound said:

What specifically, in my replies, was not sugar-coated enough, brother....?

homwardbound · Sep 25, 2013

Romans 2:4 Don’t you realize how patient he is being with you? Or don’t you care? Can’t you see that he has been waiting all this time without punishing you, to give you time to turn from your sin? His kindness is meant to lead you to repentance.
Romans 3:24 yet now God declares us “not guilty” of offending him if we trust in Jesus Christ, who in his kindness freely takes away our sins.
Romans 5:21 Before, sin ruled over all men and brought them to death, but now God’s kindness rules instead, giving us right standing with God and resulting in eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 11:6 And if it is by God’s kindness, then it is not by their being good enough. For in that case the free gift would no longer be free—it isn’t free when it is earned.
1 Corinthians 3:10 God, in his kindness, has taught me how to be an expert builder. I have laid the foundation and Apollos has built on it. But he who builds on the foundation must be very careful.
1 Corinthians 15:10 But whatever I am now it is all because God poured out such kindness and grace upon me—and not without results: for I have worked harder than all the other apostles, yet actually I wasn’t doing it, but God working in me, to bless me.
1 Corinthians 16:14 and whatever you do, do it with kindness and love.

homwardbound · Sep 25, 2013

you quoted this below and is condemning to the other person that has the right to believe whatever they decide to believe.
Do we not all have our own stories in each of us as to what and why we think and believe certain ways? To allow others to be without condemning or saying they are right or wrong, is this not Love to have free choice.
If I take away your free choice, why would I be allowed to have free choice, if I do not allow free choice? Being compassionate to others in real love is God's type of Love to all.
Romans 1:5 And now, through Christ, all the kindness of God has been poured out upon us undeserving sinners; and now he is sending us out around the world to tell all people everywhere the great things God has done for them, so that they, too, will believe and obey him.

Bowman · Sep 25, 2013

homwardbound said:

you quoted this below and is condemning to the other person that has the right to believe whatever they decide to believe.
Do we not all have our own stories in each of us as to what and why we think and believe certain ways? To allow others to be without condemning or saying they are right or wrong, is this not Love to have free choice.
If I take away your free choice, why would I be allowed to have free choice, if I do not allow free choice? Being compassionate to others in real love is God's type of Love to all.
Romans 1:5 And now, through Christ, all the kindness of God has been poured out upon us undeserving sinners; and now he is sending us out around the world to tell all people everywhere the great things God has done for them, so that they, too, will believe and obey him.

Perhaps now would be a good time for you to review exactly how Jesus rebuked the ones with incorrect theology...

Elin · Sep 25, 2013

Sleepy said:

There are plenty of Scriptures showing three divine persons, for those who have eyes that see (Mt 6:22-23).
I'll leave it to you to look them up and study them.

The NT says Jesus is God:

1) Jesus is the YHWH of Isa 40:3 - Mt 3:3; Mk1:7-8; Lk 3:16; Jn 1:29-34.
2) Jesus is the YHWH of Joel 2:32 - Ro 10:9, 13-16.
3) Jesus is the YHWH of Dt 32:43 - Heb 1:6.
4) Jesus is the LORD (YHWH) of Zechariah - Lk 1:67-68, 76.
5) Jesus is the LORD (YHWH) of Elizabeth - Lk 1:41-43.
6) Jesus is the LORD God of Ps 68:18 - Eph 4:8-9.
7) Jesus is the God of Zec 12:8, 9, 10 - Jn 19:37.
8) Jesus is the LORD of Isa 61:8 - Lk 4:18-21.
9) Jesus is the First and Last of Isa 44:6, 48:12 - Rev 1:12-18.
10) Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega of Rev 22:13-16, who is the Lord God - Rev 21:6-7.
11) Jesus is God on the throne of Rev 21:5, 7 - Jn 5:22, 27, 9:39; Rev 20:11-13.
12) Jesus is the Elohim Creator YHWH of Gen 1:1; Isa 44:24; and Jer 10:16 - Jn 1:3, 10; Col 1:16-17; Heb 1:2, 10.

The NT says the Holy Spirit is both a person and God:
1) Jesus, whom the NT shows to be God (above), said the Holy Spirit proceeded from (came out of) God just as he did - Jn 15:26.
2) Jesus, who is God, said the Holy Spirit was another Comforter like himself (God) - Jn 14:16-17,
25-26, 15:26, 16:7.
3) The NT refers to the Holy Spirit with personal pronouns (he), personal titles (Comforter) and personal functions (intelligence, will, speaking, deciding, forbidding, testifying, searching into secrets, showing the future, sending our missionaries, interceding).

The NT everywhere presents Jesus and the Holy Spirit as God, and everywhere presents only one God.

If you have a better word than Trinity for the one Triune God, let us hear it.

Elin · Sep 25, 2013

Sleepy said:

Look deeper. . .into what Jesus said about himself.

He came from heaven (Jn 3;13, 6:38, 42, 62)
and was sent by God (Jn 5:36-40, 10:36, 13:3, 16:28)
to die as a ransom for the sins of many (Mt 20:28, 26:28, Jn 10:11),
with power to forgive sin (Mt 9:2-6),
to conquer Satan (Jn 12:31; Lk 10:18; Mk 1:23-26, 5:6-13),
to speak for God (Jn 7:16, 8:25-28, 12:44-45, 49-50, 14:10, Lk 9:35, 10:16),
and to judge all mankind (Jn 5:22, 27, 8:26, 12:48, Mt 25:31-33),
as the exclusive way to God (Jn 14:6; Ac 4:12) - excludes all other ways,
the source of all truth and life (Jn 1:4, 5:25-26, 6:39-40),
the decisive factor in the eternal destiny of every man (Jn 3:18-19, 36, 5:24, 6:40, 8:24-25),
possessing all authority (power) in heaven and earth (Mt 26:64, 28:18; Lk 10:22, Jn 13:3, 13),
equal with God (Jn 5:18, 8:19, 12:44-45, 14:7-9, 16:15, 17:10); i.e., doing what God does (Jn 5:19)
- as the Father works, so the Son works (miracles) - (Jn 5:17)
- as the Father gives life, so the Son gives life (Jn 5:21)
- as the Father is Judge, so the Son is Judge (Jn 5:22)
- as the Father is to be honored, so the Son is to be honored (Jn 5:23)
- as the Father has (eternal) life in himself, so the Son has (eternal) life in himself (Jn 5:26)
- as the Father sends with authority and power, so the Son sends with authority and power (Jn 20:21)
- as the Father confers the kingdom, so the Son confers the kingdom (Lk 22:29)
- as the Father is Lawgiver, so the Son is Lawgiver (Mt 5:23-47, 12:7-8, 19:9, 21:23-27, chp 23)
empowering the apostles to speak for him, as well as for God (Lk 10:16, Jn 13:20)
and to recall and understand all things correctly (Jn 14:26, 16:13-15, Lk 24:48-49).

And remember, Jesus said he was speaking exactly what God told him to say
when he made all these claims about himself (Jn 12:49).
And finally, his name is Emmanuel which is "God with us." (Mt 1:23)
Jesus is saying in these staggering claims that he is no less than God.

And that is precisely the way the Jews (who were there) understood him
(Mk 2:3-7; Jn 6:41-42, 10:30-33, 5:18, 8:58-59; 19:7), which is why they had him killed.

homwardbound · Sep 26, 2013

Bowman said:

By the leading of Father in the Spirit that said and he did. This is the same for us all here today.
To walk in the Spirit of God and do and act as led by Father after the dividing line of Human History the cross. Before under condemnation, after freed from that condemnation and are freed to Love unconditionally to all. Since it is the Love that teaches a man to say no to unrighteousness and not condemnation.
Love to you, not trying to be better than anyone else, for we all are one in the Savior.

Oh and he let their own conscious do the convicting.

overcomer2 · Sep 26, 2013

Sometimes spiritual questions are not easily answered. In school you might have a 3rd grader ask a question that takes understanding geometry to give the answer. Jesus was in a very limited human body. Think of God the father as the ocean and Jesus in the human body as a cup of ocean water. All the attributes of God are there. All the salt, sand, minerals etc.
Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

The Lord made the scriptures a mystery if you don't have the Spirit you cannot understand these hard questions.

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Jesus and the Bible

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