Jesus Christ was God manifest in the Flesh

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

Simple, direct and penetrating. If you take a few minutes and meditate on just those four words it is amazing what the Holy Spirit impresses upon the heart.

THE WORD WAS GOD...

Imagine if you would repeatedly fast for 3-6 months at a time without a bite of food; praying and meditating about hundreds of Greek renderings, seeking only the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him... for 13 years. But, of course you don't want to hear anything that you don't already "know" via indoctrination. Puh-leeeeze with your meditating on four words for a few minutes.

Yes. The Word was God. John 1 says that. That doesn't even begin to imply the error-upon-error Filioque Trinity doctrine of men, which can't be exegeted from actual Scripture beyond inference and presumption.

 

[livingbygrace]

[
[/QUOTE]They are blocked and wont understand no matter what. Only God can reveal this simple truth. They love God, there is no doubt and fully committed to him, but the church doctrine in there is so strong. The truth is so simple to us, yet confusing for others. I went to a church once, they tried to teach me this. I was in a head spin for 6 months. Why? Because it didn't compute what they were saying. I thought there was something wrong with me why I couldn't "get it" In the end, it was because God didn't lead me to a lie. It's rock solid now. Will never be swayed. It is truth that Jesus is the son of God, and the words that God speaks is in him. Everything that comes out of Jesus mouth is God talking. Thats why he is called the Word of God. He is Gods vessel. This does not bring Jesus down. This lifts him. Who else is holy & worthy enough to hold this position? No one. Who else lived in the flesh and showed us that sin could be conquered by obeying Gods will?

In my opinion it is more harder to sacrafice a child than yourself. Any one of us would glady put our lives before our children. Abraham was willing to do this for God. God never told him to sacrifice himself. but the son he loved so much. Satan would of destroyed this earth if God was dead for three days. God is the one that restrains him.

Red, you are so sure of this. You absolutely, completely, undeniably believe this with all your heart. You accuse us of being antichrist. Be careful of your words. If you are wrong, you will certainly be red faced and will have a lot to answer for, because you obstructed the truth. I suggest you look at the evidence given to you and stop skipping around it. If God has led you to believe a lie then you must look deep into your soul and position in Christ and put God first in your heart instead of pride.

Thank you for your post. It is nice to see a post that agrees with me on this subject, it doesn't happen that often!

It has been a lacking on my part continually discussing this with Red, I don't think he could ever allow himself to believe he could be wrong where scripture is concerned

 

[livingbygrace]

[
[/QUOTE]They are blocked and wont understand no matter what. Only God can reveal this simple truth. They love God, there is no doubt and fully committed to him, but the church doctrine in there is so strong. The truth is so simple to us, yet confusing for others. I went to a church once, they tried to teach me this. I was in a head spin for 6 months. Why? Because it didn't compute what they were saying. I thought there was something wrong with me why I couldn't "get it" In the end, it was because God didn't lead me to a lie. It's rock solid now. Will never be swayed. It is truth that Jesus is the son of God, and the words that God speaks is in him. Everything that comes out of Jesus mouth is God talking. Thats why he is called the Word of God. He is Gods vessel. This does not bring Jesus down. This lifts him. Who else is holy & worthy enough to hold this position? No one. Who else lived in the flesh and showed us that sin could be conquered by obeying Gods will?

In my opinion it is more harder to sacrafice a child than yourself. Any one of us would glady put our lives before our children. Abraham was willing to do this for God. God never told him to sacrifice himself. but the son he loved so much. Satan would of destroyed this earth if God was dead for three days. God is the one that restrains him.

Red, you are so sure of this. You absolutely, completely, undeniably believe this with all your heart. You accuse us of being antichrist. Be careful of your words. If you are wrong, you will certainly be red faced and will have a lot to answer for, because you obstructed the truth. I suggest you look at the evidence given to you and stop skipping around it. If God has led you to believe a lie then you must look deep into your soul and position in Christ and put God first in your heart instead of pride.

I believe there are many reasons that churches are predominantly impotent today and do not see the power promised by Christ and fail to see the desperate in society turn to churches in large numbers

1) People put what they hear in church before what is plainly written in the Bible. They look to man primarily rather than God for the truth. The Bible whatever is said is not the plain inerrant word of God, but rather according to the interpretation man puts on it. Of course a person is entitled to go to a church and look to the minister to explain scripture to them. But when scripture is plainly ignored and put to one side and what is written is not preached you have impotency, for the Bible is the word of God and spirit breathed

2) People do not give God their lives as they did in the NT church. But can I put something to you? Is that because they do not desire to be that serious about God in their hearts? they do not want to give to God what the NT church did? Or is it because they are not plainly taught the message of the Gospel of grace as written in the NT predominantly by Paul?
I went to 'born again' churches for thirty years and I never once heard the full blown message Paul preached from the pulpit. Again, without the plain truth being preached, a weakened Christianity must follow

3) You have now, as did the church then and indeed as is in the Gospels religious people who fight the truth, they do not want to accept the Gospel because in their hearts they want to believe they can earn their way to Heaven by their own personal goodness. But although these people existed in the NT the pure message was being preached and the truth thereof saw incredible results

4) Scripture is clear, though uncomfortable reading for many, especially for those who believe they stand full square on the Bible and have revelation concerning the truth therein. Many believe they have an undserstanding of scripture that few have and if only people would yield and accept the knowledge they believe God has given them they would be saved, secure, know the truth and have a victorious life in Christ
If such as these(and others) have it pointed out to them that according to scripture signs, wonders, and miracles confirm THE TRUTH OF THE MESSAGE BEING PREACHED they will have to refuse to accept it, for they would then be forced to question their own beliefs

Kathryn Khulman once said

'Anyone could see the power in their services I have seen, but it costs everything.'
Many can say they give everything, but it is far easier to say than do(I KNOW)

So I repeat. Why do we not give so much today as they gave 2000 years ago? Is it because we are lethargic, not as committed to God as they were? In our hearts we do not love God as they did then?
Or is it because so many do not know the truth of God's word, therefore they see little victory in their lives because they only know a watered down version of Christianity

For make no mistake, where the subject discussed much here is concerned, the plainest of statements in the NT are put to one side and ignored on the altar of man and his human reasoning, and the full blown Gospel of grace is seldom preached.

So what in effect does all of this say for the Bible? Well if the majority are to be believed we have a Bible which plainly contradicts in many places something on which eternal life hinges. How did we get to this?
IMO the egotistical mind brought us here. Man pouring through scripture, ever looking to understand new revelation of what is written in its pages, and man has followed man, not the spirit filled Bible

We do not need new revelation, we need to get back to the basics of what was written by the Apostles and disciples of Christ, for therein is the truth, and therein is the power

 

[Red33]

Imagine if you would repeatedly fast for 3-6 months at a time without a bite of food; praying and meditating about hundreds of Greek renderings, seeking only the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him... for 13 years. But, of course you don't want to hear anything that you don't already "know" via indoctrination. Puh-leeeeze with your meditating on four words for a few minutes.

Yes. The Word was God. John 1 says that. That doesn't even begin to imply the error-upon-error Filioque Trinity doctrine of men, which can't be exegeted from actual Scripture beyond inference and presumption.

Who put a tiger in your tank especially with gas prices being so high these days?

 

[Red33]

Such maturity from someone who believes themselves raised up as a minister/preacher of the word leaves me speechless, there's a first!

You keep accusing me of being one, so why not have some fun and play the role just a little and just for you.

 

[livingbygrace]

You keep accusing me of being one, so why not have some fun and play the role just a little and just for you.

My dear Red, as a Godly lady who has been a Christian for fifty years said to me only yesterday.

If a person has been called by God to preach and minister the word, they would not be spending much time in internet chat sites.
She also said btw she would never frequent Christian internet chat sites, there were too many fanatics in them.

 

[Red33]

[
[/QUOTE]They are blocked and wont understand no matter what. Only God can reveal this simple truth. They love God, there is no doubt and fully committed to him, but the church doctrine in there is so strong. The truth is so simple to us, yet confusing for others. I went to a church once, they tried to teach me this. I was in a head spin for 6 months. Why? Because it didn't compute what they were saying. I thought there was something wrong with me why I couldn't "get it" In the end, it was because God didn't lead me to a lie. It's rock solid now. Will never be swayed. It is truth that Jesus is the son of God, and the words that God speaks is in him. Everything that comes out of Jesus mouth is God talking. Thats why he is called the Word of God. He is Gods vessel. This does not bring Jesus down. This lifts him. Who else is holy & worthy enough to hold this position? No one. Who else lived in the flesh and showed us that sin could be conquered by obeying Gods will?

In my opinion it is more harder to sacrafice a child than yourself. Any one of us would glady put our lives before our children. Abraham was willing to do this for God. God never told him to sacrifice himself. but the son he loved so much. Satan would of destroyed this earth if God was dead for three days. God is the one that restrains him.

Red, you are so sure of this. You absolutely, completely, undeniably believe this with all your heart. You accuse us of being antichrist. Be careful of your words. If you are wrong, you will certainly be red faced and will have a lot to answer for, because you obstructed the truth. I suggest you look at the evidence given to you and stop skipping around it. If God has led you to believe a lie then you must look deep into your soul and position in Christ and put God first in your heart instead of pride.

There is no struggle knowing that Jesus Christ was God manifest in the flesh. I do not have to twist or wrestle the scripture or answer LBG's questions of unbelief. Perhaps you do not understand what that means. Ask PPS to exegete (1Tim 3:16) for you concerning this matter. I have been crystal clear as to the spirit of antichrist and if any one denies that Jesus Christ was God manifest in the flesh, that is the spirit of antichrist. If that is a problem for you then perhaps it would be in order for you to examine yourself as to why you believe He was not.

The gospel and doctrine of Christ is based upon this premise and those that deviate from it are not good ministers of Christ (1Tim 4:6, 6:3) and they are transgressing by not abiding in this doctrine of Christ and have not both the Father and the Son (2Jn 1:9). (2Jn 1:10,11) does not just apply to JWs and Mormons, it applies to all these that do not abide in the doctrine of Christ. The Son is the expressed image of His person and they are one and they are the same. He was not a reflection or a clone or a reproduction but is the exact and precise image and form and did not think it robbery to be equal with God. To see the Son is to see the Father. Philip did not get is either unto Jesus Christ had to speak it directly to his face so that it would sink deep into the resources of his mind and heart and memory center (Jn 14:8,9). Because of this very premise of being equal with God and revealing the Father, He was crucified for this blasphemy.

If any do not want to include in their gospel the doctrine of Christ, that Jesus Christ was God manifest in the flesh, that is another gospel and another Christ and not the ONE that came from heaven to shed His blood and to be judged for our sins through death. Our sins were placed upon His body and as the Godman (the Son of God and the Son of man) His body died and went into the grave/tomb. He gave His spirit up, His soul went to the paradise side of Hades and on the third day He rose from the dead, appeared unto many and ascended to the throne of God to have the same glory with the Father that He had before the world was (Jn 17:1-5). This is not saying in any way the Jesus Christ was the Father, but is it saying that they are one and they are the same in nature, character, uncreated eternal life and if you have seen the Son you have seen the Father. You can't believe upon one without believing upon the other. YOU GOT THAT PHILIP?

 

[livingbygrace]

Just to add YET AGAIN as the inference is otherwise that I have continuously stated myself that God was manifest in the flesh of Christ through the spirit when he walked this earth. I am sure Journey 41 believes the same thing

And as the Gospel of John is so often quoted, here is the plain words of Christ from that Gospel

The Father is greater than I

The Father is greater than all

 

[Red33]

My dear Red, as a Godly lady who has been a Christian for fifty years said to me only yesterday.

If a person has been called by God to preach and minister the word, they would not be spending much time in internet chat sites.
She also said btw she would never frequent Christian internet chat sites, there were too many fanatics in them.

That must mean that both you and me and those that started this site are in the same boat. Remind your older wise women that Jesus Christ sent the disciples out as sheep among wolves (Mt 10:16) and they did not have internet access. You might meet lots of fanatics online and you can go right in your own neighborhood and find them also, but their is that hidden treasure and the pearl of great price (Mt 13:44-46) and we are to seek them out and love them and preach Christ to them as well. Her wisdom may account for some but not all.

Remind her also that we are to preach the gospel to every creature (Mk 16:15) in the uttermost parts of the earth (Acts 1:8), along the highways and byways (I wonder how that could be applied here - Mt 22:10) and along the hedges (Lk 14:23). Ask her what she thinks the hedges refer to. As an elderly woman I hope she is ministering to the elderly, for she knows that their days are numbered and their time short as are her's.

Are you going to charge me with being a Pharisee because of the inspired scriptures contained in this post?

 

[Red33]

Just to add YET AGAIN as the inference is otherwise that I have continuously stated myself that God was manifest in the flesh of Christ through the spirit when he walked this earth. I am sure Journey 41 believes the same thing

And as the Gospel of John is so often quoted, here is the plain words of Christ from that Gospel

The Father is greater than I

The Father is greater than all

Stop meddling and speaking for others, let them speak on their own behalf, for we will all have to give an account at the judgment seat of Chrst and the works done in our own body (Rom 14:10, 2Cor 5:10).

There is only one true God and His name is Jesus Christ and every knee shall bow to that name.

 

[livingbygrace]

That must mean that both you and me and those that started this site are in the same boat. Remind your older wise women that Jesus Christ sent the disciples out as sheep among wolves (Mt 10:16) and they did not have internet access. You might meet lots of fanatics online and you can go right in your own neighborhood and find them also, but their is that hidden treasure and the pearl of great price (Mt 13:44-46) and we are to seek them out and love them and preach Christ to them as well. Her wisdom may account for some but not all.

Remind her also that we are to preach the gospel to every creature (Mk 16:15) in the uttermost parts of the earth (Acts 1:8), along the highways and byways (I wonder how that could be applied here - Mt 22:10) and along the hedges (Lk 14:23). Ask her what she thinks the hedges refer to. As an elderly woman I hope she is ministering to the elderly, for she knows that their days are numbered and their time short as are her's.

Are you going to charge me with being a Pharisee because of the inspired scriptures contained in this post?

I think you should be honest from the heart as to why you are on this website. The above statement has omitted to mention that

 

[livingbygrace]

Stop meddling and speaking for others, let them speak on their own behalf, for we will all have to give an account at the judgment seat of Chrst and the works done in our own body (Rom 14:10, 2Cor 5:10).

There is only one true God and His name is Jesus Christ and every knee shall bow to that name.

Really? Christ said the Father was the one true God. I hope someone can help me out here. Would this mean you are oneness and not Trinitarian? Or maybe you are not sure

We have one God, the Father, he is our true God according to Christ. So if the name of the one true God is Christ then Christ must be the Father

BTW

I was speaking mainly for myself as you continually infer things concerning me that are not true

 

[livingbygrace]

Therefore God exlted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name
That at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow and every tongue confess
that Jesus Christ is Lord
To the Glory of God the Father

So if Christ is the one true God, did God therefore exalt Himself to the highest place and give Himself a name that was above every name so he may be glorified?

But about the son he says
Your throne O'God will last forever and ever
And rightewousness will be a sceptre of your kingdom
You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness
Therefore GOD, YOUR GOD has set you above your companions and annointede you with the oil of joy
Heb 1:8&9

So, if Christ is the one true God, is it true that because God loved righteousness and hated wickedness he set himself above his companions and annointed himself with the oil of joy?

And the one true God(God Himself) must refer to someone as My God

The Lord said to my Lord
Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet
Psalm 110:1

So if Christ is the one true God, did God say to himself that he was to sit at his own right hand until he had put all his enemies under his own feet?

Red could you explain the above to me please if the name of the one true God is Christ

Paul said for us there is but one God, the Father, so if you believe the name of the one true God is Christ you must believe Christ is the Father

 

[Red33]

Imagine if you would repeatedly fast for 3-6 months at a time without a bite of food; praying and meditating about hundreds of Greek renderings, seeking only the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him... for 13 years. But, of course you don't want to hear anything that you don't already "know" via indoctrination. Puh-leeeeze with your meditating on four words for a few minutes.

Yes. The Word was God. John 1 says that. That doesn't even begin to imply the error-upon-error Filioque Trinity doctrine of men, which can't be exegeted from actual Scripture beyond inference and presumption.

Do you feel the same about these three words...

GOD IS LOVE

When a believer is feeling unloved, for whatever reason, are they not to keep themselves in the love of God (Jude 21) and if they were to think upon the preciousness of these three words, GOD IS LOVE, would not the Holy Spirit quicken them and would they not be edified and built up inwardly? Might they also begin to behold what manner of love that the Father has bestowed upon them that they should be called the sons of God (1Jn 3:1). David was a man that constantly beseeched God to be quickened by His word (Ps 119:25.107,154). He also was the one that meditated on God's word day and night (Ps 1:2. 119, 15, 23, 48, 78, 148). D we not also have that same privilege?

Phil 4:8,9
8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
9 Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.

 

[Red33]

Red could you explain the above to me please if the name of the one true God is Christ

Paul said for us there is but one God, the Father, so if you believe the name of the one true God is Christ you must believe Christ is the Father

Just like before, you can post as others do without asking questions and let others respond without meddling or making demands upon them. Let other exercise themselves as a believer-priest and live their life before God according to the faith of the scriptures that have received from God. I think you can understand that and honor that in the love of God.

 

[livingbygrace]

Just like before, you can post as others do without asking questions and let others respond without meddling or making demands upon them. Let other exercise themselves as a believer-priest and live their life before God according to the faith of the scriptures that have received from God. I think you can understand that and honor that in the love of God.

I don't understand your last sentence. How can I according to you honour anything in the love of God. You believe I am a heretic, possessed by the Spirit of antichrist, and have no eternal life.

It's OK, I understand why you don't want to respond to my post.

But from what you have writen I take it now you are oneness and not Trinitarian

 

[Red33]

I don't understand your last sentence. How can I according to you honour anything in the love of God. You believe I am a heretic, possessed by the Spirit of antichrist, and have no eternal life.

It's OK, I understand why you don't want to respond to my post.

But from what you have writen I take it now you are oneness and not Trinitarian

You are one confused puppy.

 

[livingbygrace]

You are one confused puppy.

I don't think I am Red.


Yet for us there is but ONE GOD, THE FATHER FROM WHOM all thjings came and FOR whom we live and ONE LORD JESUS CHRIST THROUGH WHOM all things came and THROUGH WHOM we live
1 Cor 8:6

That they may know you(the Father) the only true God and Jesus Christ whom you have sent
John 17:3

So, the Father is the one true God.

You say the name of the one true God is Christ.

Therefore SCRIPTURALLY you must believe Christ is the Father.

So you say the name of the one true God is Christ

Christ says the name of the one true God is the Father

Who should I believe?

You are excellant at reeming off scripture, but your ACTUAL knowledge is very poor.

Your rudeness and maliciousness to others on this site can easily be explained

You are primarily on cc to extol yourself, and are driven by pride, therefore when people do not play to your tune you have to react.

That is the truth I am afraid.

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

There is no struggle knowing that Jesus Christ was God manifest in the flesh. I do not have to twist or wrestle the scripture or answer LBG's questions of unbelief. Perhaps you do not understand what that means. Ask PPS to exegete (1Tim 3:16) for you concerning this matter.

I'm not sure why you would reference me after impugning my salvation. Should I do this exegesis while I'm "out to lunch", as you say?

I'd look to Philippians 2:6, "...being (huparcho G5225pap) in the form (morphe G3444an-nn) of God..."; and Colossians 2:9, "...in him dwelleth (katoikeo G2730pin) all the fullness (pleroma G4138nn) of the Godhead (Theotes G2320nn) bodily."

I have been crystal clear as to the spirit of antichrist and if any one denies that Jesus Christ was God manifest in the flesh, that is the spirit of antichrist.

1John 4:1-3 doesn't say that, and is a specific anti-Docetic Gnostic text. They were insisting the fleshly manifestation was merely a "substantial apparition or projection" rather than God being in/as material flesh.

LBG and Journey aren't saying that, so they can't be included in that specific condemnation that follows. That particularly refers to actual flesh. They were denegrating true incarnation, which also disannuls physical death and resurrection.

If that is a problem for you then perhaps it would be in order for you to examine yourself as to why you believe He was not.

The gospel and doctrine of Christ is based upon this premise and those that deviate from it are not good ministers of Christ (1Tim 4:6, 6:3) and they are transgressing by not abiding in this doctrine of Christ and have not both the Father and the Son (2Jn 1:9). (2Jn 1:10,11) does not just apply to JWs and Mormons, it applies to all these that do not abide in the doctrine of Christ.

See my previous comment. This is specifically anti-Gnostic; not carte blanche to condemn others who don't share one's own understanding.

Notice that I call Trinity "error" rather than "heresy" (like Filioque). Trinitarians CAN have salvation, and many do. The same is true of other views within certain boundaries, like LBG and Journey. Most JWs and LDSs fall outside those boundaries.

LBG has a semi-Nestorian understanding, but adheres to plain Scripture. Journey simply says God's OWN Logos was manifest in the flesh, which is closer to truth than Trinitarianism. She just doesn't understand the substance that is contained in that Logos.

It's all about the Logos. Few understand the Logos. Trinitarians are the worst offenders in this regard; and yet the most self-assured and condemning of others.

The Son is the expressed image of [BHis person[/B] and they are one and they are the same.

Have you not recognized this yet? I've pointed out the above bolded several times. The Son is the express*image (charakter G5481pr/an-nn) of HIS PERSON... NOT another "person" (hupostasis G5287art-nn).

He was not a reflection or a clone or a reproduction but is the exact and precise image and form and did not think it robbery to be equal with God. To see the Son is to see the Father.

EXACTLY! This is not multiple "persons".

Philip did not get is either unto Jesus Christ had to speak it directly to his face so that it would sink deep into the resources of his mind and heart and memory center (Jn 14:8,9). Because of this very premise of being equal with God and revealing the Father, He was crucified for this blasphemy.

EXACTLY! This is not multiple "persons".

If any do not want to include in their gospel the doctrine of Christ, that Jesus Christ was God manifest in the flesh, that is another gospel and another Christ and not the ONE that came from heaven to shed His blood and to be judged for our sins through death. Our sins were placed upon His body and as the Godman (the Son of God and the Son of man) His body died and went into the grave/tomb. He gave His spirit up, His soul went to the paradise side of Hades

If only you knew what you just said, Brother. If you understood the spirit and soul of Jesus, you might understand how God's Soul and Spirit were one with His. If so, you would know Jesus was the prosopon (G4383) of God, not "another" person (hupostasis OR prosopon). Jesus was the embodiment of God's OWN Soul and Spirit in flesh. All so that ultimately we might be born from on high in like manner as joint-heirs.

How else could He dwell in us, His temple? How else could the High Priest enter our Holy of Holies (spirit)? This goes waaaaay beyond theology and doctrine. This is about HOW God makes His abode in man, and HOW He intrinsically gives us His uncreated life for us to transcend created life and be partakers of His Divine nature.

and on the third day He rose from the dead, appeared unto many and ascended to the throne of God to have the same glory with the Father that He had before the world was (Jn 17:1-5). This is not saying in any way the Jesus Christ was the Father, but is it saying that they are one and they are the same in nature, character, uncreated eternal life and if you have seen the Son you have seen the Father. You can't believe upon one without believing upon the other. YOU GOT THAT PHILIP?

I've got that. Trinitarians have diminished it (ignorantly, not maliciously). None of this is separate pre-existent "persons".

Can you step aside from dogma and catch a glimpse of truth? I pray you can.

 

[livingbygrace]

PPS

Can I ask what a semi nestorian belief is?