Jesus comes immediately AFTER the tribulation, there is no Left Behind Secret Rapture=Stop causing fear.

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Jul 23, 2018
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Where's the Scripture for that? The only ones hidden are believing Jews during the Tribulation.
Yes
It is crystal clear that the ac martyrs all refusing the mark.

Rev 20 IS VIVIDY CLEAR.
Those on thrones were niether protected or " hidden"
They, and every other believer are martyred by the ac
 
Jul 23, 2018
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The issue is that Matthew 24 is in Chronological Order. It begins with Temple Destruction and Daniel 12's ending Daily Sacrifice. Then it goes into the specifics of the Attack in 70 A.D.. Then we get to false prophets and antichrists. Then the Tribulation and Second Coming. Then the setting of the Second coming. But people are flipping Verses 35 and on before 29-31. It's the only way to create this pre-trib rapture scheme. It just shows the desperation of those to make an attempt that from Matthew 24:1 to 24:51 is the Correct Order, but that would disprove their Secret coming Theory. And like most Theories (Scientific/Biblical) they end up as failures because it can be proven that it is out of Context and Chronological Order.
Rev 14
Did that chapter disappear?.

Postribs will not go there.

Postrib rapture is not at all biblical.

You just proved it
 
Jul 23, 2018
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The issue is that Matthew 24 is in Chronological Order. It begins with Temple Destruction and Daniel 12's ending Daily Sacrifice. Then it goes into the specifics of the Attack in 70 A.D.. Then we get to false prophets and antichrists. Then the Tribulation and Second Coming. Then the setting of the Second coming. But people are flipping Verses 35 and on before 29-31. It's the only way to create this pre-trib rapture scheme. It just shows the desperation of those to make an attempt that from Matthew 24:1 to 24:51 is the Correct Order, but that would disprove their Secret coming Theory. And like most Theories (Scientific/Biblical) they end up as failures because it can be proven that it is out of Context and Chronological Order.
By leaving out the jews, the bride, and the very mission of the ac , you will never unpack end times.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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They are not hidden until they see the antichrist for themselves and go to war and only a few in comparison to the whole actually escape.

We, unlike the Jews, believe there will be a Beast, False Prophet, puppets of Satan, and it does not say it in the Bible, but one would imagine Demons are everywhere doing their deeds rather openly. There's many things like the Mark of the Beast we don't know of but can guess by technology, there's a way that connects banking, medical, your personal data that is not listed in the Bible, but we have a good guess based upon technology. We know so much now, why wouldn't we hide?
He asked you for a verse.

What is the bible verse supporting your beliefs?
 
Jan 14, 2021
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Rev 14
Did that chapter disappear?.

Postribs will not go there.

Postrib rapture is not at all biblical.

You just proved it
Rev 14 "and the earth was harvested"

I think I've seen this argument from you before and the fact remains that this isn't necessarily talking about a rapture. You are free to make your case, but this is hardly the silver bullet you claim it to be.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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Talk about false Ecclesiology in connecting Christ and Body plus not to mention Chronological order.

He stated, MYSTERY, being something only the New testament people would know.

and here he is trying to claim it had to be but with no proof.

If this is your evidence, good luck!
"Oddly enough, Matthew 24:29-31 was not foretold in the Old Testament"

If this is your conclusion you are in a lot of trouble my friend. Those particular verses are by far the most prophesied in all the Old Testament. You don't understand that the Second Coming is the predominant prophetic theme of the Old Testament?
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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"these are the last days"......Indeed these ARE the "last days".....of the Age of Grace aka the Church age. Been going on now for over 2000 years but not much longer.

This age ends at the rapture. THEN and only then The Day of the Lord begins with the 70th week of Daniel, which itself begins only after the rapture and when the man of sin is revealed.

The point I'm trying to make is that "the last days" as used by the Apostles (many times!) in reference to the Church have nothing whatsoever to do with aka Daniels 70th week aka the time of the Tribulation, which is merely the BEGINNING of the DOTL,
"Matt 24 (end time verses)"

Better stated as Matt 24 BEGINNING time verses. For this is in fact the beginning of the coming age, the Day of the Lord. It is my believe that this age begins at an event IN HEAVEN when Jesus "stands to judge" and takes the scroll from the hand of the Father (Rev 5:6-7). This event occurs post-rapture because the Church is seen in heaven rejoicing per Rev 5:9-10.

Loosely using the "end times" terminology in the wrong places is a bad habit of mine, I need to stop doing it lol.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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Rev 14 "and the earth was harvested"

I think I've seen this argument from you before and the fact remains that this isn't necessarily talking about a rapture. You are free to make your case, but this is hardly the silver bullet you claim it to be.
Latter wheat harvest of tribulation saints?
 
Dec 29, 2021
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Rev 14
Did that chapter disappear?.

Postribs will not go there.

Postrib rapture is not at all biblical.

You just proved it
Didn't John have the Revelation?
Wasn't he given the Revelation?
If his Disciples, taught by him, preach no secret Rapture, but one emphatically claims the Tribulation will be the Last Competition for the Believers, seems you are reading into the Revelation John was given.
He Would Know its meaning a trillion times better than you ever can turn it into a false doctrine.
 
Dec 29, 2021
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By leaving out the jews, the bride, and the very mission of the ac , you will never unpack end times.
Didn't John have the Revelation?
Wasn't he given the Revelation?
If his Disciples, taught by him, preach no secret Rapture, but one emphatically claims the Tribulation will be the Last Competition for the Believers, seems you are reading into the Revelation John was given.
He Would Know its meaning a trillion times better than you ever can turn it into a false doctrine.
 
Dec 29, 2021
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He asked you for a verse.

What is the bible verse supporting your beliefs?
Didn't John have the Revelation?
Wasn't he given the Revelation?
If his Disciples, taught by him, preach no secret Rapture, but one emphatically claims the Tribulation will be the Last Competition for the Believers, seems you are reading into the Revelation John was given.
He Would Know its meaning a trillion times better than you ever can turn it into a false doctrine.
 
Dec 29, 2021
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"Oddly enough, Matthew 24:29-31 was not foretold in the Old Testament"

If this is your conclusion you are in a lot of trouble my friend. Those particular verses are by far the most prophesied in all the Old Testament. You don't understand that the Second Coming is the predominant prophetic theme of the Old Testament?
Turning the gathering for Judgement into the Gathering for the Second Coming/Rapture won't get you very far.
 
May 22, 2020
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Good Morning to all my Brethren who are stuck in the error of pre-trib.

God has proven to us, from His word and they are found in my Posts which you know of.

Not once did pre-trib rapture ever proceed out of the mouth of God = not once.

I cannot respond now as i must do outdoor work today.
Keep your 1611 KJV Bible with you...u need it.
 
Dec 29, 2021
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Keep your 1611 KJV Bible with you...u may need it.
Yes, because it is the Latin to English Translation and must be true?

Oh wait, the Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek would be the Truth, not Latin into English.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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Yes, because it is the Latin to English Translation and must be true?

Oh wait, the Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek would be the Truth, not Latin into English.
Latin into English? Whatever made you believe that those are the basis for the majority text?
 
Aug 2, 2021
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Keep your 1611 KJV Bible with you...u need it.
Good Morning,

Please post what you find in your 1611 version of Christ or the Apostles saying:
A.) Christ will rapture His Bride before His Coming
B.) Christ will rapture His Saints before the antichrist
C.) Christ will rapture His Elect before the Resurrection
D.) OT example of a group of Saints being raptured before Tribulation

Thank You
 
Dec 29, 2021
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Latin into English? Whatever made you believe that those are the basis for the majority text?
Have you ever read the Commentary the Writers of the KJV made?
They begin with, this (is not) an accurate description but it is close enough.

The translators argue that all previous English translations can rightly be called the Word of God, even though they may contain some “imperfections and blemishes.”

The KJV uses the word “unicorn” nine times and “satyr” twice (mythical mythology make believe animals found in witchcraft and paganism)

5. The translators of the KJV 1611 were relatively unfamiliar with Koine Greek.
Koine (“common”) Greek is the original language of the New Testament, but the KJV translators of the New Testament, who were accomplished scholars of Classical Greek, were relatively unfamiliar with Koine Greek. Koine Greek was not well-understood. Some people suggested it was a “Judaic” or “Hebraic” Greek.

6. The KJV translation of the NT is based on relatively recent Greek manuscripts.
As well as relying on previous English translations, the 1611 edition of the KJV relied on critically edited Greek texts that were “for the most part based on about half a dozen very late manuscripts” (none earlier than the 12th century AD).”[9] These Greek texts included five printed editions of the Greek New Testament by Erasmus,[10] as well as Robert Estienne’s (a.k.a. ‘Stephanus’) edition (1550) and Theodore Beza’s edition (1598). Michael Holmes writes more about the Greek texts behind English Bibles here.

Unfortunately, one of the manuscripts Estienne and Beza used for their Greek editions contained a few “corrections” that downplayed the importance of women in the church.[11]

7. The Textus Receptus, or Received Text, is basically Erasmus’ Greek Text.
Many KJV advocates claim that the New Testament in the King James Bible was translated from a Greek text known as the Textus Receptus (TR) and that the TR is especially accurate and inspired. The term Textus Receptus was first coined in 1633, after the KJV was first published, and it basically refers to Erasmus’ critical text. The current version of the TR was produced in 1894 by Scrivener who preferred the Byzantine, or Majority, Text. (The Byzantine-Majority Text is similar but not identical to the Textus Receptus.)[12]
 
Dec 29, 2021
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Have you ever read the Commentary the Writers of the KJV made?
They begin with, this (is not) an accurate description but it is close enough.

The translators argue that all previous English translations can rightly be called the Word of God, even though they may contain some “imperfections and blemishes.”

The KJV uses the word “unicorn” nine times and “satyr” twice (mythical mythology make believe animals found in witchcraft and paganism)

5. The translators of the KJV 1611 were relatively unfamiliar with Koine Greek.
Koine (“common”) Greek is the original language of the New Testament, but the KJV translators of the New Testament, who were accomplished scholars of Classical Greek, were relatively unfamiliar with Koine Greek. Koine Greek was not well-understood. Some people suggested it was a “Judaic” or “Hebraic” Greek.

6. The KJV translation of the NT is based on relatively recent Greek manuscripts.
As well as relying on previous English translations, the 1611 edition of the KJV relied on critically edited Greek texts that were “for the most part based on about half a dozen very late manuscripts” (none earlier than the 12th century AD).”[9] These Greek texts included five printed editions of the Greek New Testament by Erasmus,[10] as well as Robert Estienne’s (a.k.a. ‘Stephanus’) edition (1550) and Theodore Beza’s edition (1598). Michael Holmes writes more about the Greek texts behind English Bibles here.

Unfortunately, one of the manuscripts Estienne and Beza used for their Greek editions contained a few “corrections” that downplayed the importance of women in the church.[11]

7. The Textus Receptus, or Received Text, is basically Erasmus’ Greek Text.
Many KJV advocates claim that the New Testament in the King James Bible was translated from a Greek text known as the Textus Receptus (TR) and that the TR is especially accurate and inspired. The term Textus Receptus was first coined in 1633, after the KJV was first published, and it basically refers to Erasmus’ critical text. The current version of the TR was produced in 1894 by Scrivener who preferred the Byzantine, or Majority, Text. (The Byzantine-Majority Text is similar but not identical to the Textus Receptus.)[12]

This one is rather important since the pre-trib rapture is based off of the Koine Greek Translation from Paul and John's writings.

5. The translators of the KJV 1611 were relatively unfamiliar with Koine Greek.
Koine (“common”) Greek is the original language of the New Testament, but the KJV translators of the New Testament, who were accomplished scholars of Classical Greek, were relatively unfamiliar with Koine Greek. Koine Greek was not well-understood. Some people suggested it was a “Judaic” or “Hebraic” Greek.
 
Dec 29, 2021
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This one actually bothers me to a degree of true disturbance:

The KJV uses the word “unicorn” nine times and “satyr” twice (mythical mythology make believe animals found in witchcraft and paganism)