Jesus comes immediately AFTER the tribulation, there is no Left Behind Secret Rapture=Stop causing fear.
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He didn't carry her either time.
Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
First time says she "fled". No wings are flying.
Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
Second time wings are mentioned and she flies there, to "her place" which proves she had been there before.
There's two ways to go.
1. make up your own stuff and deny what bible says.
2. accept what the bible says and throw out anything else.
Currently you are doing number 1.
Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
First time says she "fled". No wings are flying.
Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
Second time wings are mentioned and she flies there, to "her place" which proves she had been there before.
There's two ways to go.
1. make up your own stuff and deny what bible says.
2. accept what the bible says and throw out anything else.
Currently you are doing number 1.
That "eagle's wings" is a clear reference of Exodus 19:4 and Deuteronomy 32:11 -
"You yourselves have seen what I did to Egypt, and how I carried you on eagles' wings and brought you to myself."
"like an eagle that stirs up its nest and hovers over its young, that spreads its wings to catch them and carries them on its pinions."
All books in the bible are connected, and those two are from the Torah, the foundation of the whole bible. You think He didn't carry because you don't know where this expression comes from.
And that place is prepared by GOD for the purpose of her protection, since when does it become HER place as though she prepared it all by herself?
"You yourselves have seen what I did to Egypt, and how I carried you on eagles' wings and brought you to myself."
"like an eagle that stirs up its nest and hovers over its young, that spreads its wings to catch them and carries them on its pinions."
All books in the bible are connected, and those two are from the Torah, the foundation of the whole bible. You think He didn't carry because you don't know where this expression comes from.
And that place is prepared by GOD for the purpose of her protection, since when does it become HER place as though she prepared it all by herself?
Unrelated.
We have a woman fleeing to safety before a war in heaven begins, then after the war is over satan goes after her again and she flies into safe place. Clearly this is two events. satan didn't learn first time, so he tries again. You are avoiding these facts to defend a preconceived position.
Tell me, when did she supposedly get out of that "safe place" in between so she can fly in there "again"? That's not a fact at all, that's YOUR preconceived position with no footing in the Scripture.
Also, Revelation is full of OT references, you have no understanding if you ignore and wave them off as "unrelated". Now since we're debating about the woman, how about you tell me who the woman is?
Also, Revelation is full of OT references, you have no understanding if you ignore and wave them off as "unrelated". Now since we're debating about the woman, how about you tell me who the woman is?
Here is a comment from that post:
it's quite reasonable to add two and two together and reach this conclusion that seven trumpets and seven bowls are the same, but seven seals before that.
This doesn't explain how the 6th seal is different from the 7th bowl, since you claim the trumpets and bowls are the same but not the seals.
That is nearly the same language is used to describe a "great earthquake" in the 6th seal in Rev 6:12-14 and the 7th bowl in Rev 16:17-21. Please explain how these earthquakes are different.
it's quite reasonable to add two and two together and reach this conclusion that seven trumpets and seven bowls are the same, but seven seals before that.
This doesn't explain how the 6th seal is different from the 7th bowl, since you claim the trumpets and bowls are the same but not the seals.
That is nearly the same language is used to describe a "great earthquake" in the 6th seal in Rev 6:12-14 and the 7th bowl in Rev 16:17-21. Please explain how these earthquakes are different.
“Earthquake” and “mountains and islands out of their places” in that PARTICULAR passage are largely symbolic. It’s the same as “faith can move the mountains”. That mountains usually refer to earthly civil power, either political, economical or institutional, the same kind of languages can be found in the OT prophecies.
Besides, that was the beginning of the end, afterwards there are five months of trumpet judgement, and at that points all God’s people are in heaven. If that were the end, then how do you explain the next seal as the prelude to the 7 trumpets?
Besides, that was the beginning of the end, afterwards there are five months of trumpet judgement, and at that points all God’s people are in heaven. If that were the end, then how do you explain the next seal as the prelude to the 7 trumpets?
How do you get "largely symbolic"? The 2 passages are describing virtually the same thing.
Besides, that was the beginning of the end, afterwards there are five months of trumpet judgement, and at that points all God’s people are in heaven.[/QUOTE]
Only if one believes that there will be a resurrection before the Tribulation and Jesus takes all the resurrected believers to heaven. But there are no verses that say or even suggest such a trip to heaven. So no, not "all believers" will be in heaven. The single resurrection of the saved will occur "when He comes" (1 Cor 15:23) and the verse says it will be "those who belong to Him", which means ALL believers.
Actually, I don't explain any of the 3 sets of judgments. Certainly there are parallels between the sets, but I (and a whole lot of scholars) aren't sure whether John wrote sequentially or that they all occur together, or overlap. For me, it doesn't matter. Those who live in the Tribulation will see what occurs and in what order. It's not for me to figure it out. It will all come out when it unfolds.
My interest is in the overall over of things, and the Bible is clear: the "Restrainer" is removed first. 2 Thess 2. Since this cannot be the Holy Spirit, it refers to the nation that is the "moral policeman" of the world, keeping evil somewhat at bay. I believe this has already been fulfilled as the USA, which has been this restrainer, no longer is. The "removal" can be argued as either at the election in 2020, or when the new administration actually took over.
Looking at the "4 horsemen of the Apocalypse" in Rev 6, it can easily be argued that at least 3 of them have already been released on the world.
Then, the whole of the Tribulation will unfold. Then, Jesus Christ will return as King of kings at the Second Advent with the whole host of heaven, which is all the dead saints. They will meet all the living saints in the air, everyone will receive a glorified resurrection body, and Jesus will personally end the battle of Armageddon, and set up His Millennial Kingdom. Satan (and all his angels) will be locked up for 1,000 years, to be released near the end to deceive the world once again and attack Jerusalem, where King Jesus is reigning.
Every unbeliever will be killed at that battle of Gog and Magog, only to be physically resurrected to appear at the GWT judgment, and then be cast into the lake of fire, where there physical bodies will die once more. Hence, the LoF is also called the "second death" several times in Revelation.
And then the eternal state begins at Rev 21.
That's my story, and I'm sticking with it. Because Scripture backs it up.
Besides, that was the beginning of the end, afterwards there are five months of trumpet judgement, and at that points all God’s people are in heaven.[/QUOTE]
Only if one believes that there will be a resurrection before the Tribulation and Jesus takes all the resurrected believers to heaven. But there are no verses that say or even suggest such a trip to heaven. So no, not "all believers" will be in heaven. The single resurrection of the saved will occur "when He comes" (1 Cor 15:23) and the verse says it will be "those who belong to Him", which means ALL believers.
Actually, I don't explain any of the 3 sets of judgments. Certainly there are parallels between the sets, but I (and a whole lot of scholars) aren't sure whether John wrote sequentially or that they all occur together, or overlap. For me, it doesn't matter. Those who live in the Tribulation will see what occurs and in what order. It's not for me to figure it out. It will all come out when it unfolds.
My interest is in the overall over of things, and the Bible is clear: the "Restrainer" is removed first. 2 Thess 2. Since this cannot be the Holy Spirit, it refers to the nation that is the "moral policeman" of the world, keeping evil somewhat at bay. I believe this has already been fulfilled as the USA, which has been this restrainer, no longer is. The "removal" can be argued as either at the election in 2020, or when the new administration actually took over.
Looking at the "4 horsemen of the Apocalypse" in Rev 6, it can easily be argued that at least 3 of them have already been released on the world.
Then, the whole of the Tribulation will unfold. Then, Jesus Christ will return as King of kings at the Second Advent with the whole host of heaven, which is all the dead saints. They will meet all the living saints in the air, everyone will receive a glorified resurrection body, and Jesus will personally end the battle of Armageddon, and set up His Millennial Kingdom. Satan (and all his angels) will be locked up for 1,000 years, to be released near the end to deceive the world once again and attack Jerusalem, where King Jesus is reigning.
Every unbeliever will be killed at that battle of Gog and Magog, only to be physically resurrected to appear at the GWT judgment, and then be cast into the lake of fire, where there physical bodies will die once more. Hence, the LoF is also called the "second death" several times in Revelation.
And then the eternal state begins at Rev 21.
That's my story, and I'm sticking with it. Because Scripture backs it up.
