Jesus comes immediately AFTER the tribulation, there is no Left Behind Secret Rapture=Stop causing fear.

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joecoten

Well-known member
May 25, 2022
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i guess you never read(or believed) the words of the LORD in Matthew chapter 24, as well as the Prophets and thee Apostles who bear witness to the Truth on this specific subject.
Yeah, I've been reading that book since '73. Like I said, I know there's different ways of looking at it. I'm not too concerned about it.
 

cv5

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Nov 20, 2018
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My point was that those who are "alive and remain" when Jesus comes back will never see heaven. Because after being "caught up" in the clouds and receiving their glorified bodies, they will remain with Christ as He continues down to earth to end the Tribulation at the battle of Armageddon and sets up His Millennial Kingdom.
Nope. The Bride is immediately taken to the Father's house (John 14) IN HEAVEN to enjoy the immediate consummation of the wedding. This is the first phase of the Jewish wedding sequence.

She then accompanies Christ (as the already married WIFE) to the Second Coming MARRIAGE SUPPER. Rev 19:7-11 spells out sequence. Verse 7....the wife is already in Heaven, having been raptured seven years earlier. The wedding supper on the earth is the second phase of the Jewish wedding sequence.

It a typical Jewish wedding the SHOUT/SNATCH then consummation nuptials last for seven days, in seclusion and relative privacy. At the father's house exclusively. The wedding supper only occurs afterward and the entire village is in attendance.

The post tribbers always get it wrong. Always.

The pretrib rapture is boilerplate biblical doctrine. Petulant arguments to the contrary are rubbish.
 

DavidTree

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Aug 2, 2021
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Yeah, I've been reading that book since '73. Like I said, I know there's different ways of looking at it. I'm not too concerned about it.
You have me beat by 10 years on that..............just read it the way it was written.

PEACE my Friend/Brother/Sister in Christ
 

DavidTree

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Aug 2, 2021
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Nope. The Bride is immediately taken to the Father's house (John 14) to enjoy the immediate consummation of the wedding. This is the first phase of the Jewish wedding sequence.

She then accompanies Christ (as the already married WIFE) to the Second Coming MARRIAGE SUPPER. Rev 19:7-11 spells out sequence. Verse 7....the wife is already in Heaven, having been raptured seven years earlier. The wedding supper on the earth is the second phase of the Jewish wedding sequence.

It a typical Jewish wedding the SHOUT/SNATCH then consummation nuptials last for seven days, in seclusion and relative privacy. At the father's house exclusively. The wedding supper only occurs afterward and the entire village is in attendance.

The post tribbers always get it wrong. Always.

The pretrib rapture is boilerplate biblical doctrine. Petulant arguments to the contrary are rubbish.
First Phase has been and is currently being fulfilled = according to His Word of Promise.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
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To live in DENIAL is not a healthy thing.

Take your own advice. As I said, the verses do not show Christ taking people anywhere. If you had any honor, you'd either admit that or highlight where I am wrong. Good luck with that.
 

DavidTree

Well-known member
Aug 2, 2021
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Soooo, I'm lost because I don't see Matthew 24 the way you do. Wow!
i never questioned your (or anyones) Salvation as it pertains to 'pre-trib'.

Their allegiance to the Truth on this subject is definitely obscured by 'respect of persons' whereby the words of the LORD are relegated to sinful/prideful/religious men.

At that time, if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There He is!’ do not believe it. 24For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders that would deceive even the elect, if that were possible. 25See, I have told you in advance.

The Return of the Son of Man
(Mark 13:24–27; Luke 21:25–28)

26So if they tell you, ‘There He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.

29Immediately after the tribulation of those days:

‘The sun will be darkened,

and the moon will not give its light;

the stars will fall from the sky,

and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.b

30At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven,c and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.d 31And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
 

DavidTree

Well-known member
Aug 2, 2021
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Nope. The Bride is immediately taken to the Father's house (John 14) IN HEAVEN to enjoy the immediate consummation of the wedding. This is the first phase of the Jewish wedding sequence.

She then accompanies Christ (as the already married WIFE) to the Second Coming MARRIAGE SUPPER. Rev 19:7-11 spells out sequence. Verse 7....the wife is already in Heaven, having been raptured seven years earlier. The wedding supper on the earth is the second phase of the Jewish wedding sequence.

It a typical Jewish wedding the SHOUT/SNATCH then consummation nuptials last for seven days, in seclusion and relative privacy. At the father's house exclusively. The wedding supper only occurs afterward and the entire village is in attendance.

The post tribbers always get it wrong. Always.

The pretrib rapture is boilerplate biblical doctrine. Petulant arguments to the contrary are rubbish.
The HOLY SPIRIT says 'pre-trib' rapture is a lie - it is best to believe Him.
 

DavidTree

Well-known member
Aug 2, 2021
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Yeah, I've been reading that book since '73. Like I said, I know there's different ways of looking at it. I'm not too concerned about it.
Since
Yeah, I've been reading that book since '73. Like I said, I know there's different ways of looking at it. I'm not too concerned about it.
Since your new here i will give you an update:

i have an open offer of $1,000 donation to Voice of the Martyrs if anyone can bring forth scripture that clearly states:
a.) Jesus returns BEFORE His Second Coming to pre-trib rapture a select group of saints.
b.) Blood washed Saints are 'left behind' by the LORD at His Second Coming
c.) Saints spoken of in Revelation chapters 1-19 have been 'pre-trib raptured'

Failure to provide the scriptural evidence that answers a/b/c of 'pre-trib' rapture means you will send, at least a $100 donation to Voice of the Martyrs

PEACE
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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The HOLY SPIRIT says 'pre-trib' rapture is a lie - it is best to believe Him.
It's you that says it's a lie.

Just a suggestion: I would back off speaking for the Holy Spirit. You do it often and it's a very bad habit.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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i never questioned your (or anyones) Salvation as it pertains to 'pre-trib'.

Their allegiance to the Truth on this subject is definitely obscured by 'respect of persons' whereby the words of the LORD are relegated to sinful/prideful/religious men.

At that time, if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There He is!’ do not believe it. 24For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders that would deceive even the elect, if that were possible. 25See, I have told you in advance.

The Return of the Son of Man
(Mark 13:24–27; Luke 21:25–28)

26So if they tell you, ‘There He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.

29Immediately after the tribulation of those days:

‘The sun will be darkened,

and the moon will not give its light;

the stars will fall from the sky,

and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.b

30At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven,c and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.d 31And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
You lecture me about finding the truth and then quote from a false Bible? Good one.
 

DavidTree

Well-known member
Aug 2, 2021
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You lecture me about finding the truth and then quote from a false Bible? Good one.
Are you unable to read from your KJV?

Here it is again in KJV

Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25Behold, I have told you before.

The Return of the Son of Man

(Mark 13:24-27; Luke 21:25-28)

26Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. 27For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 28For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.


29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

It's you that says it's a lie.

Just a suggestion: I would back off speaking for the Holy Spirit. You do it often and it's a very bad habit.
And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts; knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.
1 Peter 1:19-20

The Holy Spirit gave no prophecy of a pre-trib rapture.
The Holy Spirit, in fact, did say that pre-trib rapture is a lie.

It is best for you to believe Him and turn away from speaking and believing a falsehood.
 

joecoten

Well-known member
May 25, 2022
839
292
63
Since


Since your new here i will give you an update:

i have an open offer of $1,000 donation to Voice of the Martyrs if anyone can bring forth scripture that clearly states:
a.) Jesus returns BEFORE His Second Coming to pre-trib rapture a select group of saints.
b.) Blood washed Saints are 'left behind' by the LORD at His Second Coming
c.) Saints spoken of in Revelation chapters 1-19 have been 'pre-trib raptured'

Failure to provide the scriptural evidence that answers a/b/c of 'pre-trib' rapture means you will send, at least a $100 donation to Voice of the Martyrs

PEACE
That's nice. I'm sure someone could use the money. I used to be into this kind of stuff but my head don't work as good as it used to. :)
 

FreeGrace2

Well-known member
Jan 31, 2021
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FreeGrace2 said:
Please share any verse that describes Jesus taking resurrected/raptured believers to heaven.
Where is the Lord Jesus Christ right now? In Heaven (Heb 1:3 and many other verses)
Also, Acts 3:21 which teaches that Jesus will remain in heaven UNTIL the "restoration of all things".

Where does He take His people in John 14:1-3? To heaven
Yes, and keep in mind that Jesus said this BEFORE His own death and resurrection. And since His resurrection ALL believers have been taken to heaven. They are waiting to accompany Him back to earth at the 2nd Advent. So this passage doesn't teach a resurrection followed by a trip to heaven.

Where does He return after the Resurrection/Rapture? To Heaven (1 Thess 4)
This passage does NOT say anything about a return trip to heaven. That has to be an assumption.

In fact, there are no verses that describe Jesus taking resurrected/raptured believers to heaven.

The Bible states that there will be ONE resurrection for the saved and ONE resurrection for the unsaved.
Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

Paul wrote that the ONE resurrrection of the saved will be "when He comes" which is a reference to His second prophesied return to earth, and ALL believers will be included.

1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

This verse prevents any idea of a resurrection before the Tribulation.

Rev 20:5 states clearly that the resurrection of the saved will occur when Jesus comes back at the end of the Tribulation by mentioning tribulational martyrs being resurrected and reigning with Christ, and this resurrection is called the FIRST resurrection. The second one will be of the unsaved, to appear before the GWT judgment.
 

FreeGrace2

Well-known member
Jan 31, 2021
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FreeGrace2 said:
My point was that those who are "alive and remain" when Jesus comes back will never see heaven. Because after being "caught up" in the clouds and receiving their glorified bodies, they will remain with Christ as He continues down to earth to end the Tribulation at the battle of Armageddon and sets up His Millennial Kingdom.
Nope. The Bride is immediately taken to the Father's house (John 14) IN HEAVEN to enjoy the immediate consummation of the wedding.
This passage says nothing about resurrection or "rapture". Jesus said this BEFORE His death. So He ALREADY fulfilled this passage. It has nothing to do with end times. All His disciples are already THERE.

The pretrib rapture is boilerplate biblical doctrine.
Impossible, since there are NO verses that describe Jesus taking resurrected/raptured believers to heaven.

Petulant arguments to the contrary are rubbish.
How about what the Bible ACTUALLY says? Is that a "petulant argument"?

Facts that prove that NO resurrected believer is taken to heaven.

There are just TWO resurrections of the human race; one for the saved and one for the unsaved.
Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. This means ONE each.

1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.
This verse describes the resurrection of the saved.

Red words show the sequence.
Blue words shows that the resurrection of Jesus is FIRST.
Green words refers to the Second Advent. EVERY time the Bible mentions "coming" regarding Jesus, it means the SECOND prophesied return of the Lord, which is called the SECOND ADVENT, which occurs to END the Tribulation.
Purple words means ALL believers from Adam forward.

If you can prove any of these colored words to be incorrect, please share.

Rev 20:5 speaks of the resurrection of tribulational martyrs and calls this the FIRST resurrection.

Bingo!

Nothing petulant here. All believers resurrected at the Second Advent, followed by the Millennium.

Just facts. No petulance.
 

DavidTree

Well-known member
Aug 2, 2021
6,465
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That's nice. I'm sure someone could use the money. I used to be into this kind of stuff but my head don't work as good as it used to. :)
Switch to either of the following:
a.) organic whole leaf green tea brewed with spring water
b.) organic whole bean coffee ground immediately before brewing with spring water
c.) Both = coffee in morning and green tea in afternoon
d.) chlorella first thing in morning with 16oz of spring water or PH filtered water
e.) after taking chlorella (d) then a half hour later go to (b)

Peace and Blessing from the Holy Spirit be upon you Today
 

DavidTree

Well-known member
Aug 2, 2021
6,465
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FreeGrace2 said:
My point was that those who are "alive and remain" when Jesus comes back will never see heaven. Because after being "caught up" in the clouds and receiving their glorified bodies, they will remain with Christ as He continues down to earth to end the Tribulation at the battle of Armageddon and sets up His Millennial Kingdom.

This passage says nothing about resurrection or "rapture". Jesus said this BEFORE His death. So He ALREADY fulfilled this passage. It has nothing to do with end times. All His disciples are already THERE.


Impossible, since there are NO verses that describe Jesus taking resurrected/raptured believers to heaven.


How about what the Bible ACTUALLY says? Is that a "petulant argument"?

Facts that prove that NO resurrected believer is taken to heaven.

There are just TWO resurrections of the human race; one for the saved and one for the unsaved.
Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. This means ONE each.

1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.
This verse describes the resurrection of the saved.

Red words show the sequence.
Blue words shows that the resurrection of Jesus is FIRST.
Green words refers to the Second Advent. EVERY time the Bible mentions "coming" regarding Jesus, it means the SECOND prophesied return of the Lord, which is called the SECOND ADVENT, which occurs to END the Tribulation.
Purple words means ALL believers from Adam forward.

If you can prove any of these colored words to be incorrect, please share.

Rev 20:5 speaks of the resurrection of tribulational martyrs and calls this the FIRST resurrection.

Bingo!

Nothing petulant here. All believers resurrected at the Second Advent, followed by the Millennium.

Just facts. No petulance.
So simple a child can understand = written for His Children.
 

DavidTree

Well-known member
Aug 2, 2021
6,465
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It's you that says it's a lie.

Just a suggestion: I would back off speaking for the Holy Spirit. You do it often and it's a very bad habit.
And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts; knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.
1 Peter 1:19-20

The Holy Spirit gave no prophecy of a pre-trib rapture.
The Holy Spirit, in fact, did say that pre-trib rapture is a lie.

A very bad and evil habit is to twist God's words by adding your own or taking away from His.
Every word of God is flawless;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words,
lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar.
Proverbs 30:5-6

It is best for you to believe Him and turn away from speaking and believing a falsehood.