Jesus comes immediately AFTER the tribulation, there is no Left Behind Secret Rapture=Stop causing fear.

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TheDivineWatermark

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Except the entire church is not brought back with Jesus when He returns. Only those who are "asleep" does God bring with Jesus.

1 Thessalonians 4:14
14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
Just poppin in here real quick to say...

"... THEM ALSO which SLEEP through Jesus will God bring WITH [G4862] Him"

That word "ALSO" is very important, here.

It means that the "we which are ALIVE" component of the "ONE BODY" (the "ONE BODY" whom "RAPTURE" SOLELY pertains--"the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY"--ALL those saved "in this present age [singular]") are not the only ones whom God will "bring WITH [G4862] Him"... but "THEM ALSO which SLEEP through Jesus [i.e. the DEAD IN Christ "ALSO", who shall "rise first" at the time just before "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]" (AS ONE--i.e. in ONE "SNATCH-ACTION" at ONE POINT in time--TOGETHER)].





At the time of Christ's Second Coming to the earth, there is no "rapture / snatch [IN THE AIR]" event (only "resurrection ['to stand again' (on the earth)]")... and only those still-alive saints being "gathered" BY ANGELS "He SHALL SEND" to do so, to gather the elect of Israel [i.e. the believing remnant of] into ONE PLACE upon the earth: Isaiah 27:9,12-13 [parallel Matt24:29-31] "and ye shall be gathered ONE by ONE, O ye children of Israel... to worship the Lord in the holy mount AT JERUSALEM" [that's not the rapture / snatch (TO the meeting of the Lord IN THE AIR)]
 
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Just poppin in here real quick to say...

"... THEM ALSO which SLEEP through Jesus will God bring WITH [G4862] Him"

That word "ALSO" is very important, here.

It means that the "we which are ALIVE" component of the "ONE BODY" (the "ONE BODY" whom "RAPTURE" SOLELY pertains--"the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY"--ALL those saved "in this present age [singular]") are not the only ones whom God will "bring WITH [G4862] Him"... but "THEM ALSO which SLEEP through Jesus [i.e. the DEAD IN Christ "ALSO", who shall "rise first" at the time just before "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]" (AS ONE--i.e. in ONE "SNATCH-ACTION" at ONE POINT in time--TOGETHER)].





At the time of Christ's Second Coming to the earth, there is no "rapture / snatch [IN THE AIR]" event (only "resurrection ['to stand again' (on the earth)]")... and only those still-alive saints being "gathered" BY ANGELS "He SHALL SEND" to do so, to gather the elect of Israel [i.e. the believing remnant of] into ONE PLACE upon the earth: Isaiah 27:9,12-13 [parallel Matt24:29-31] "and ye shall be gathered ONE by ONE, O ye children of Israel... to worship the Lord in the holy mount AT JERUSALEM" [that's not the rapture / snatch (TO the meeting of the Lord IN THE AIR)]
It's actually quite simple. No need for any emphasis or fiddling with words outside of what is revealed in the plain text. God is bringing Jesus and also the sleeping saints with Him. That's all it says.
 

Blade

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Left Behind Secret Rapture is a lie made up by Satan.

Remember, Left Behind Secret Rapture and rapture are two different things.

The bottom link talks about the rapture and what is rapture.

http://testallthings.com/2010/05/31/when-is-the-rapture/


The Word of God says that Jesus comes immediately AFTER the tribulation.
Matthew 24:29-31, Mark 13:24-27, John 17:15


We don't know the exact day, time and hour of the Real Jesus Christ 2nd Coming, but we do know the signs.

Before the Real Jesus Christ comes back: Great earthquake that shakes Earth and Heaven, sun shall be turned into darkness, moon into blood, stars shall withdraw their shining, heaven rolled like a scroll, every mountain and island moved out of their places, great hail out of heaven pelting on some of Satan's children on earth.

Isaiah 13:9-13, Ezekiel 38:19-23, Joel 2:10-11, Joel 2:30-32, Haggai 2:6, 21, Matthew 24:29-34, Matthew 24:35, Mark 13:24-29, Mark 13:31, Acts 2:19-20, Luke 21:25-33 and Hebrews 12:26-28, Revelation 6:12-17, Compare Daniel 7:13-14, 27, Ezekiel 13:13, Revelation 11:15-19, Revelation 16:17-21

http://repent5610.blogspot.com/2012/12/there-is-no-secret-rapture.html

If you are interested in freedom from sin and how do we receive the Holy Spirit? read below.
After God gave me the Holy Spirit, I found proof that TV, movies, novels, music, video games and computer games are all sins, except Christian stuff that don’t have sins like sermons and Christian music words that gives messages. I found out that in them there is lying, stealing, adultery (Matthew 5:28 looking at someone with lust is adultery), fornication which is sex before marriage, revenge, murder, jealousy, pride=self-pity, hypocrisy, using God’s name in vain as a curse word, they are all idols (breaks 2nd Commandment) because most people can’t live without them and they love them more than God and more. Just read the 10 commandments for a list.


1 John 2:15 King James Version (KJV)


15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 New King James Version

9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.


Now I will be preaching about how to receive the Holy Spirit and be 100% going to Heaven.

First, it’s only by the grace of God that he gives you faith in Jesus Christ in order to give up your sins. It’s only by the grace of God that he leads you to pray to him to destroy all your evil desires of watching TV or any sinful desires. When you pray to God to destroy all your evil desires of watching TV or sinful desires (Romans 6:6-7 and Galatians 5:24), Satan will intervene and extremely tempt you in watching the TV. But if it’s God’s will and if you are one of God’s elects, you will overcome it and God will destroy all your evil desires of watching TV. After God has destroyed all your evil desires of watching TV and if you are one of God’s elects, you receive the joy of the Holy Spirit for about 40 minutes. After the joy wears off, all existence of boredom no longer exists and you no longer burn out (psychology) anymore. That is when you have received the Holy Spirit.

Then it’s by the grace of God that he forgives you of your sins, as you confess and repent of your sins throughout your life which is called sanctification. But you can watch Christian stuff that don’t have sins (Like sermons) because that helps you grow more mature as a Christian spiritually and for more information about this sermon, go to spreadthegospel59.wordpress.com then go to
The short version of “To be free from sin (sin deceives and hurts everyone) and how do we receive the Holy Spirit?”


Why does God hate sin? | GotQuestions.org
What does it mean that “you were bought with a price” (1 Corinthians 6:20; 7:23)? | GotQuestions.org
Sin Will Never Make You Happy
(What does the Bible say about hypocrisy? | GotQuestions.org)
Gives thanks to God, that you are free from sin (sin deceives=never satisfied no matter how many times you do it,
gives pain, makes you guilty, go from bad to worse)
if you are one of God’s elect, to fight off self-pity is to give thanks to God for everything. What does the Bible say about self-pity? | GotQuestions.org
Is eternal security a “license” to sin? | GotQuestions.org


The reason why am hated for no reason since I were physically born and never fit in is because am one of God’s elects. (John 15:18-19)


Just so you know Jesus had to carry all of God’s elects sins and endure the punishment for God’s elects sins which is Hellfire spiritually, which is extreme love and mercy.
Go to the bottom website, for better explanation.
https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/jesus-eternal-punishment-hours/
Hi all and happy 4th tomorrow!
I know this posted in "Bible discussions". To make a statement "Left Behind Secret Rapture is a lie made up by Satan." How in the world did you come to this conclusion? Not the best way to have a discussion because from the start seems you're not here to discuss as others are. My problem with post is "Gods wrath" and the link you posted says "Great Tribulation is simply more of what Christians normally have in the world". <---this for me is like saying "Pre Trib" started in 1830. Not true.

This is why I try to say every time talking about PRE MID POST to make them work at some point we have to speculate and tell others "what that verse really means is". Yet I can't get around nor twist what GOD through Christ said about the end times. There is no other time in history like what is coming. Whats coming if God did not shorten the time even the elect of God would fall. So I am guessing what Christ said and also in Rev was just "apocalyptic talk"? As in sun going black moon not showing its light.. yeah that will never happen....its just apocalyptic talk like the OT did right?

What God leaves out. Read the book of beginnings again. Allot that happened God never told Adam everything that was about to happen just "don't eat of this tree". This kind of talk He has done all through the word. Well lets say your counting 1 5 10.. what happen to the numbers in-between? Exactly! Forgive me so many walk not by faith but by sight and hearing and how you feel. Do you cast out demons? So many think whats coming is no worse than today. <----that right there GOD has never told anyone this did you know that? God/Christ did you also know has never told anyone PRE MID POST one is wrong one is right. I've had God give me scriptures I have never heard of nor read the book they were written in. Yeah gave me chapter and verse. When it comes to this.. He says nothing. Know no one has the right answer here.. live for Him today.. expect Him now.. you will never miss Him.

You know what truly hurts me and I mean hurts is we don't think about the weak in faith.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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It's actually quite simple. No need for any emphasis or fiddling with words outside of what is revealed in the plain text. God is bringing Jesus and also the sleeping saints with Him. That's all it says.
So I take it you do not believe where Paul had said we [the ones of us still-ALIVE at the time] will be "CAUGHT UP TOGETHER [/AT THE SAME TIME] WITH them" (meaning, at the same time that THEY are also "CAUGHT UP")? It's what the text says, in v.[16b]17.






["...and SO / THUS / IN THIS MANNER shall WE ever be WITH [G4862 - 'UNIONed-with'] the Lord" (in contrast to the "G3326 with ['accompanying']" word used in Matt25:10, for example)]
 
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So I take it you do not believe where Paul had said we [the ones of us still-ALIVE at the time] will be "CAUGHT UP TOGETHER [/AT THE SAME TIME] WITH them" (meaning, at the same time that THEY are also "CAUGHT UP")? It's what the text says, in v.[16b]17.
God will bring Jesus and also those who are asleep. When they get here they'll be resurrected. Then those alive on the Earth, all together with the resurrected saints, will meet Jesus in the air. I'm not disagreeing with anything in 1 Thess. 4.





["...and SO / THUS / IN THIS MANNER shall WE ever be WITH [G4862 - 'UNIONed-with'] the Lord" (in contrast to the "G3326 with ['accompanying']" word used in Matt25:10, for example)]
Cool. That doesn't change that God's brings Jesus and also those who are asleep, per 1 Thess. 4:14. What are you trying to say with Matthew 25:10?
 

TheLearner

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I understand the "catch up" concept as people going out of the town to meet a conquering hero to escort him back into the town.
 
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I understand the "catch up" concept as people going out of the town to meet a conquering hero to escort him back into the town.

nope

Noah came back from being over a mile in the sky AFTER the trib. (zero immediate uturn...none at all)

neither Noah or the others (lot, the wise virgins, the ripe fruit rapture in rev 14,the baby Jesus removed) came back in immediately in a uturn.

none of it fits the postrib model
zero
uturn is made up.

BTW...when you guys gonna realize neither Noah , lot, the baby Jesus, or the raptured Jews (during the trib in rev 14,) were removed POST JUDGEMENT???????????

ALL PRETRIB
THANK YOU JESUS!!!!!!!!!!!
 

TheLearner

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nope

Noah came back from being over a mile in the sky AFTER the trib. (zero immediate uturn...none at all)

neither Noah or the others (lot, the wise virgins, the ripe fruit rapture in rev 14,the baby Jesus removed) came back in immediately in a uturn.

none of it fits the postrib model
zero
uturn is made up.

BTW...when you guys gonna realize neither Noah , lot, the baby Jesus, or the raptured Jews (during the trib in rev 14,) were removed POST JUDGEMENT???????????

ALL PRETRIB
THANK YOU JESUS!!!!!!!!!!!
"If He is about to descend, on what account shall we be caught up? For the sake of honor. For when a king drives into a city, those who are in honor go out to meet him; but the condemned await the judge within. And upon the coming of an affectionate father, his children indeed, and those who are worthy to be his children, are taken out in a chariot, that they may see and kiss him; but those of the domestics who have offended remain within. We are carried upon the chariot of our Father. For He received Him up in the clouds, and we shall be caught up in the clouds. Acts 1:9 Do you see how great is the honor? And as He descends, we go forth to meet Him, and, what is more blessed than all, so we shall be with Him. "
https://sites.google.com/site/aquin...1-thessalonians/chapter-2/chapter-3/chapter-4
 

TheLearner

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https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/230407.htm

"[4] So E. Peterson, “apantesis,” in TDNT 1:380-81. Among other authors, this is one of those cases where one side errs by reading too much meaning into a word, and the other side refutes what is in effect a straw man. For example, John Chrysostom, First Thessalonians 10 (NPNF 1 13:356) states that such a coming by a king by definition includes the giving rewards for the faithful subjects and the immediate judgment of the city’s rebels; the type of expanded meaning of the concept is approved by Lucien Cerfaux, Christ in the Theology of St. Paul (trans. Geoffrey Webb and Adrian Walker; New York: Herder and Herder, 1959), 39-42. A better way forward is shown by M. R. Cosby, “Hellenistic Formal Receptions and Paul’s Use of APANTHSIS in 1 Thessalonians 4:17,” BBR 4 (1994): 15-34. He demonstrates that the word does not necessarily carry all the baggage that is sometimes attributed to its meaning (citizens prepare the reception; the offering sacrifices; judgment of rebels who are jailed within the city). Nevertheless the word can be shown to generally describe “a loose pattern to play against when describing the coming of a heavenly king” (15). Similarly Malherbe, Letters to the Thessalonians, 277; Bruce, 1 & 2 Thessalonians, 102-03. Doubtful is the theory of N. T. Wright, that it was Paul who originally combined “meeting” with Parousia in order to pit Christ against the earthly usurper, the emperor. See N. T. Wright, Paul in Fresh Perspective (Minneapolis, Minn.: Fortress, 2005), 74. The easiest refutation of Wright’s point is that, it was not Paul who first applied these terms to the second coming: he found them in the gospel tradition (parousia: Matt 24:47; see too Jas 5:8; “meeting” [apantesis], see our analysis above). "
https://openoureyeslord.com/2011/05/25/1-thess-417-meet-the-lord-in-the-air-in-the-original-greek/
 

TheLearner

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"Eis apantēsin always (and I mean always!) refers to meeting someone on their way and escorting them in. It is a phrase of hospitality where a happy person or crowd intercepts that special someone who is en route to make his or her way to you. It would be like seeing a guest coming to your home and you decided to meet them in the driveway and walk them into your home. It is not only a phrase of hospitality but a phrase conveying an eager and enthusiastic demeanor. It is when you cannot wait to see someone so when they finally arrive you delay not a second longer of separation! You go to them and meet them as you walk with them for the rest of the way.

This exact phrase, eis apantēsin (literally: “to meet”) is used two other times in the New Testament. Matthew 25 is full of parables where Jesus speaks concerning His return:

“Then the kingdom of heaven may be compared to ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. 2 Now five of them were foolish and five were wise. 3 For when the foolish ones took their lamps, they did not take olive oil with them. 4 But the wise ones took olive oil in flasks with their lamps. 5 And when the bridegroom was delayed, they all became drowsy and fell asleep. 6 But in the middle of the night there was a shout, ‘Behold, the bridegroom! Come out to meet (eis apantēsin) him!’” (Matthew 25:1–6)​
Next they welcome the bridegroom into the banquet. They go meet him, with the purpose of jubilantly accompanying him in to the feast.

And in this way we came to Rome. And from there the brothers, when they heard the news about us, came to meet (eis apantēsin) us as far as the Forum of Appius and Three Taverns. (Acts 28:14b15a)​
These eager believers ran to meet Paul and his companions to personally walk him into Rome.

From these examples, we see that the technical phrase eis apantēsin has an intentional meaning that Paul does not need to spell out in the passage of 1 Thess 4. There is no debate of what kind of meeting takes place. Of course, believers meet the Lord “in the air” as He descends to the earth! What else could we do when we see our king finally coming to restore all things? And it is obvious that our meeting Him in the air implies that we accompany Him for His final descent. (Perhaps we will even be singing Joy to the World.) The language of 1 Thess 4 is only confusing if we rip it out of its literary environment. Placed within (and exegeted within) we understand precisely what kind of picture Paul is drawing for us.

Keener writes:

Judaism traditionally associated the resurrection of the dead with the end of this age and the inauguration of the kingdom, and readers would assume this connection in the absence of a direct statement to the contrary. When paired with a royal “coming” … the word for “meeting” in the air normally referred to emissaries from a city going out to meet the dignitary and escort him on his way to their city. The contrast that this image provides with the honor thought to be particularly due to the “Lord” Caesar and his emissaries could well have provoked hostility from local officials (cf. 2:12; 5:3; Acts 17:7).[8]
1 Thessalonians 4:15–17 are cast in language and images depicting the arrival of a grand dignitary. In other words, this is a very common and known picture to them. There is no mystery surrounding the cultural backdrop of this text! When the Emperor comes to Thessalonika, they do not see him off in the distance and wait for him to make his way into the city, no, they run out to him to meet him as far as they could. A parade of people celebrate his arrival and with loud songs and jubilation, they walk with him and escort him into the city. The heralds would announce his coming. You would hear his coming before seeing it. Then crowds surge out of their city to meet him and celebrate his arrival. At this point, such a dignitary would not take the crowd with him and leave.

Paul does not deploy this language arbitrarily. The Thessalonians would know what this means. But Paul now applies this language as a metaphor for Christ’s return. The most likely way to complete the scenario Paul painted is by assuming that after assembling His people, gathering them, and clothing them with resurrection, Christ would not leave but would proceed with His parousia, with a parade that outdoes anything Disney could put on! What 1 Thessalonians 4 depicts is not the removal of the church but the dawn of the Day of the Lord—the Day when judgment comes to set all things right.

THE CHOICE OF LANGUAGE IS MEANT TO DEPICT A WONDERFUL, CELEBRATORY ARRIVAL OF THE LONG-AWAITED EVENT OF JESUS’S SECOND COMING.
This is victory language. It is Jesus’s victory that we, as believers, are benefactors of.

Speaking of victory language. The reference to “the air” (in 1 Thess 4:17) is probably also symbolic. The air was thought of as the dwelling-place of the powers of darkness.[9] The fact that the Lord chooses to meet His people in the air, on the demons’ home ground, so to speak, displays His complete mastery over them. Remember, part of what we wait for regarding the return of Jesus is His final sweep and decimation of the devil and his demons. The church gathers in the air—the locale between heaven and earth—clothed with resurrection—to fervently welcome the king back home to earth.

In summary, 1 Thess 4:13–18 is meant to be an encouragement that whether someone dies before the Lord’s coming or is alive, the hope remains the same. No believer in Jesus “sleeping or awake”; dead or alive, will be left behind or miss out! We will all be gathered to Him, meeting the King of heaven as He descends to secure His final victory on earth. We meet Him in transit (metaphorically) to be the entourage, the parade of people celebrating the arrival of the King and the establishment of His kingdom.

The parousia is the breaking point between the present age and the promised new age. The claim that Christ will return to bring about the dissolution of the present world and the commencement of the next is a central theme of the New Testament. 1 Corinthians 15:24 talks about the return of Christ, His parousia, as bringing about “the end” (which really is the new beginning), when the kingdom of God is brought in at full force. All the future promises and hopes are at once being brought into reality!"
https://adventuresintheology.com/20...-4-pictures-christs-return-as-a-royal-parade/
 

TheLearner

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TheLearner

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"The word refers, then, to the actions of the greeting committee as it goes forth from the city to escort the royal person or dignitary into the city for his official visit. “These analogies (especially in association with the term parousia) suggest that the Lord is pictured here as escorted the remainder of the journey to earth by his people — both those newly raised from the dead and those remaining alive."” (Witherington, 1 and 2 Thesssalonians: A Socio-Rhetorical Commentary, 138)
 

TheLearner

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Earl J. Richard (b. 1940) adds:
It is generally admitted that the term for the meeting, apantēsis, became in the Hellenistic world a technical expression for the public, civic welcome accorded important visitors (TDNT 1:380-81). Such processions of leading citizens going out of the city walls to welcome and accompany an approaching visitor would have been common in Hellenistic times (Berliner griechische Urkunden 2.362.7.17; Polybius [200-118 BCE], History 5.26.8; Josephus [37-100], Antiquities of the Jews 11:8:4; Cicero [106-43 BCE], Letters to Atticus 8.16.2; 16.11.6; Chrysostom [347-407, Thessalonians: Homily 8.62.440) and would have been used by Paul to describe the triumphal meeting of believers and their Lord at the end-time. A second avenue of research points to Jewish background for this term, for in the Septuagint it is used for meetings with Abraham and David (Genesis 14:17; II Samuel 19:16) and for the Israelites’ encounter with God at Sinai (Exodus 19:17). So it has been suggested that Paul was influenced by such usage, especially theophanic imagery, in formulating his thought. It is thus possible that a double influence is at work here. Regardless, whether Paul thinks of Septuagint language or Hellenistic custom, the readers, whose acquaintance with Jewish scriptural background would have been weak, would certainly have understood Paul’s suggestive imagery. (Richard, First and Second Thessalonians (Sacra Pagina), 246-47)​
http://trivialdevotion.blogspot.com/2013/01/the-rapture-i-thessalonians-417.html
 

TheLearner

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TheLearner

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TheLearner

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