Jesus comes immediately AFTER the tribulation, there is no Left Behind Secret Rapture=Stop causing fear.

[Gibsonbfree]

God has already shown hundreds and thousands around the world there WILL be a rapture and in fact multiple raptures. He has shown this is visions and dreams prophecy to individuals all around the world. But in human pride and arrogance of their own opinions, if someone has dreams and visions(even tho they know God says is how He uses to show prophecy) they scoff and mock and make up some reason that they are false. No different than the prophets of old that all of you read now in bible would have scoffed at more than likely when they were alive.

Acts 2:17
17AND IT SHALL BE IN THE LAST DAYS,’ says God,
‘THAT I WILL POUR OUT MY SPIRIT UPON ALL MANKIND;
AND YOUR SONS AND YOUR DAUGHTERS SHALL PROPHESY,
AND YOUR YOUNG MEN SHALL SEE [divinely prompted] VISIONS,
AND YOUR OLD MEN SHALL DREAM [divinely prompted] DREAMS;
18EVEN ON MY BOND-SERVANTS, BOTH MEN AND WOMEN,
I WILL IN THOSE DAYS POUR OUT MY SPIRIT
And they shall prophesy.

(Notice the word ALL MANKIND) You would think that mean everyone in the world God is saying will get dreams and visions. Just like John 3:16 “whosoever” there are words used all through bible that do not in reality anyone and everyone in the world.

MULTIPLE RAPTURES was shown to select individuals and this is scripture Jesus told them after the details of what they seen.

Luke 12:38
Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them. And if he shall come in the SECOND WATCH, or come in the THIRD WATCH, and find them so, blessed are those servants.

 

[Ruby123]

Hi there Ruby123,

No, 'The Day of the Lord' is an expression describing a specific time when God's wrath will be poured out upon the earth, which has been prophesied of for thousands of years. Here is an example from Zephaniah and Isaiah:

====================================================

“I will completely sweep away everything from the face of the earth,” declares the LORD.

“I will sweep away man and beast; I will sweep away the birds of the air, and the fish of the sea, and the idols with their wicked worshipers.

I will cut off mankind from the face of the earth,”



The great Day of the LORD is near—near and coming quickly.

Listen, the Day of the LORD!

Then the cry of the mighty will be bitter.

That day will be a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of destruction and desolation,

a day of darkness and gloom, a day of clouds and blackness,

a day of horn blast and battle cry against the fortified cities, and against the high corner towers.

I will bring such distress on mankind that they will walk like the blind, because they have sinned against the LORD.

Their blood will be poured out like dust and their flesh like dung.

Neither their silver nor their gold will be able to deliver them on the Day of the LORD’s wrath.

The whole earth will be consumed by the fire of His jealousy.

For indeed, He will make a sudden end of all who dwell on the earth. - Zepaniah 1

=======================================================================

Behold, the Day of the LORD is coming—cruel, with fury and burning anger—to make the earth a desolation and to destroy the sinners within it.

For the stars of heaven and their constellations will not give their light.

The rising sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light.

I will punish the world for its evil and the wicked for their iniquity.

I will end the haughtiness of the arrogant and lay low the pride of the ruthless.

I will make man scarcer than pure gold, and mankind rarer than the gold of Ophir. - Isaiah 13

========================================================================

Jesus also refers to the same time period as "the Hour of Trial," which is neither a a day nor an hour in length, but is a moniker referring to the entire period of God's wrath, which will take place during that last seven years.

Oh I thought the day of the Lord sounded like a positive time like the time of rapture.

 

[Ruby123]

You are absolutely correct, Ruby, the Lord is not going to torture His bride first and then gather us. The seals, trumpets and bowl judgments cannot in any way be construed to be common trials and tribulations, as some here are attempt infer. It is because Jesus took upon himself God's wrath that every believer deserves is why we will not be exposed to those seals, trumpets and bowl plagues of wrath. Revelation 19:6-8 shows the bride/church in heaven at the wedding of the Lamb during the tribulation period:

=======================================================

“Hallelujah!

For the Lord our God the Almighty reigns.

Let us rejoice and be glad and give Him the glory.

For the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His bride has made herself ready.

She was given clothing of fine linen, bright and pure.”

====================================================

Then in verse 14 shows the bride, referred to as "the armies in heaven" wearing the same fine linen that she will have just received and following the Lord out of heaven to end the age, riding on white horses.

I found this interesting, goes for five minutes.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Oh I thought the day of the Lord sounded like a positive time like the time of rapture.

LOL! Never heard that before.

Here's another reference to the Day of the Lord from the prophet Amos:

===============================================================

Woe to you who long for the Day of the LORD!

What will the Day of the LORD be for you?

It will be darkness and not light.

It will be like a man who flees from a lion, only to encounter a bear, or who enters his house and rests his hand against the wall, only to be bitten by a snake.

Will not the Day of the LORD be darkness and not light, even gloom with no brightness in it?

===================================================================

 

[Ruby123]

LOL! Never heard that before.

Here's another reference to the Day of the Lord from the prophet Amos:

===============================================================

Woe to you who long for the Day of the LORD!

What will the Day of the LORD be for you?

It will be darkness and not light.

It will be like a man who flees from a lion, only to encounter a bear, or who enters his house and rests his hand against the wall, only to be bitten by a snake.

Will not the Day of the LORD be darkness and not light, even gloom with no brightness in it?

===================================================================

Lol, well at least you had a laugh
I have always thought outside the box, probably always will
What I meant was when someone is getting married, it is usually referred to as being "their day" so I thought the day of the Lord may have been the time of rapture, his and our wedding day. Could both occur??

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

@Ruby123 ,

--"the day of the Lord" is entirely "earthly-located" and INCLUDES the 7-yr Trib, Christ's "RETURN" to the earth, AND His 1000-yr reign on/over the earth;

--"the day of Christ / our Lord Jesus Christ" (by contrast) is when WE will be UP THERE "WITH [G4862 - UNIONed-with] Him" (and is always stated in positive terms)






... the "false claim" Paul talks about in 2Th2:2 should read "the day of the Lord" [I listed something like 23-24 versions showing it to say "the DOTL"] (purporting that it "IS ALREADY PRESENT [PERFECT indicative]"; it has to do with the idea that the TIME-PERIOD of "JUDGMENTS" were already unfolding upon the earth... and Paul is saying "NOT," and HERE'S WHY! ONE THING must take place *FIRST*! )

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ [elaborating on that post ^ ] The "false claim" (v.2) was something entirely BELIEVEABLE (tho FALSE) due to their present and ONGOING, very NEGATIVE circumstances they were ENDURING (1:4); Thus the need for Paul's cautioning them about it and the necessity of this letter to them




[Paul was not cautioning them about false claims having ZERO EVIDENCE to back up said claims (i.e. IRRATIONAL things), but something that indeed could cause them to believe the claim WAS TRUE (tho being false)]

 

[Ahwatukee]

Lol, well at least you had a laugh
I have always thought outside the box, probably always will
What I meant was when someone is getting married, it is usually referred to as being "their day" so I thought the day of the Lord may have been the time of rapture, his and our wedding day. Could both occur??

In this case, "the Day of the Lord" is not a great day for those who will be on the earth. The Day of the Lord, is a reference to the time of His unprecedent wrath, a time of tribulation such as the world has not seen from the beginning, until now and never to be equaled again, which is what Jesus refers to in Matt.24:15-22. It will be so bad that if those days were allowed to go on any longer, no one would survive on the earth.

Prior to the on-set of the Day of the Lord, the event of the gathering of the church must take place. After believers have been caught up to meet the Lord in the air two events that will take place while there, is our judgment at the Bema Seat of Christ, which will not be a judgment for sin, but will be to receive wards and/or suffer loss of rewards. I've heard it coined as an awards ceremony. The wedding of the Lamb will also take place after we are taken to heaven. Both of these will take place in heaven while the Day of the Lord is taking place on the earth, which is the time of God's wrath.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

The full and entire "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" will be on the Earth during the entirety of the Great Tribulation.

This statement ^ cannot possibly be true, because the vast majority of "the Church which is His body" [Eph1:20-23 WHEN (as to its existence)] has already died and are "present with the Lord" (i.e "the DEAD IN Christ")...
...and they are NOT going to be "resurrected ['to stand again']" JUST SO they can experience the seven year Tribulation period ["100% present and accounted for," for the Trib, according to your viewpoint].

That's just SILLY TALK.

Some will die, and those that remain alive at the second coming will be raptured.

What you are saying here ^ does NOT comport with what Scripture itself is saying (if you are suggesting that ONLY the "still-alive" portion of the "one body" is who will experience the "Rapture"). Scripture itself states we (both components) will be "caught up TOGETHER [/at the SAME TIME]," not that we "still-alive" ones are the only portion of the "one body" that will experience the "SNATCH / CAUGHT UP / HARPAZO"-action. No.

That's` the only scenario found in scripture.

Besides the timing issue (on which you and I disagree), if I'm reading you correctly, your scenario of having ONLY the "still-living" portion of the "one body" [/'the Church which is His body'] being the solely ones to experience the "SNATCH / CAUGHT UP / HARPAZO"-action, does not agree with the biblical scenario that actually will take place, according to how it is written. = )

 

[Mem]

I disagree.

Rather, it is a matter of...

--understanding that there are distinct "harvests" (that is, more than ONE "harvest" in Scripture and in nature; and more than ONE "firstfruit" [James 1:18; see TWO DISTINCT "firstfruit" in Lev23]--note: this is NOT to say "more than one 'rapture'"... NO!);

--ascertaining the CHRONOLOGY issues in Scripture (esp. in these various eschatological contexts under present discussion);

--"distinguishing the things that DIFFER," as we are instructed to do (things which are DIFFERENT are NOT the SAME--ex: I just supplied between Jesus' Olivet Discourse's reference to "watch" [and its parallel, like in Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding"; incl'g in Lk21:36] and Paul's reference to "watch" [1Th5:10(6)]--NOT saying the SAME THING regarding these);

--and "correctly apportioning the word of truth," as we are also exhorted to do







You are free to lump everything into one big mish-mash of mush, if you so wish, but I myself have several problems with doing so (some of which I list above--and this is nothing related to "hyper-spiritual" anything, let alone "hogwash" )

I think that phrase summed up pre-trib postulations quiet adequately, although I didn't coin it. When I came across "Sign 7 Signs of Hyper-Spiritual Hogwash," by Duke Taber, after looking up 'hyper-spiritualism,' and 'sensationalism' so that I could better explain my thoughts about it. I couldn't go on using one term without the other. The author exchanged 'hogwash' for 'baloney' also within the article but it just didn't ring as melodic to me.

 

[Runningman]

To me it is being selfish. I am sorry. False doctrine is warned against. You think that's not a big issue? Its false doctrine

False doctrines are a big issue in the church. I wasn't denying that. How do you propose we solve that problem?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

There is no rapture. That's is a lie from Satan.

Founded by a freemason named Darby.

Yall use those same scriptures always to prove the rapture. And those verses actually prove there is no rapture.

There is no rapture for selfish Christians that are afraid to die for Jesus

So, @Jesusistheway64 , I gather you do not believe there is any such thing as [what we call] "Rapture" AT ALL?? (the "SNATCH / CAUGHT UP / HARPAZO"-action [G726] that 1Th4:17 speaks of, but which is explained or talked about in other passages also--that is, in more than merely this ONE verse, but which Paul speaks of using a variety of terms and phrases in his two Thessalonians epistles... etc).

Am I reading you right?







@Mem , do you believe the same as [member] Jesusistheway64 ^ , that there is NO "rapture / snatch / caught up / harpazo"-action... that this *idea* (we speak of) is merely a kind of "hyper-spiritualism" and "sensationalism" as you mentioned?... so that (in your view) it is almost "ridiculous" to think that anyone will actually "exit the earth" (TO the MEETING of the Lord IN THE AIR)? Are you suggesting this is not what G726 refers to (as well as the other terms and phrases Paul uses for this event)??
I'm just trying to ascertain your viewpoint... are you saying NO ONE will "vanish" out of other ppl's sight?? [reflective of what Jesus Himself did in His glorified body ON His Resurrection Day / ON Firstfruit (Lev23:10-12), per Luke 24:31]

 

[FreeGrace2]

If God would have removed Noah and his family from the earth, then there would currently be no one on the earth. Therefore, Noah and his family had to remain on the earth to repopulate it.

But in the pretrib rapture theory, God removes believers to avoid His wrath, then brings them BACK to earth at the Second Advent, which no one argues against.

So your argument doesn't work.

To use Noah as an "example" of a pretrib rapture, He plus 7 would have had to be removed from earth and then returned to earth.

The best example of God protecting His people is found in the 10 plagues of Egypt. Goshen is in Egypt, where the Jews resided. They were protected while the rest of Egypt went through the plagues.

Ex 9:26 - 7th plague: The only place it did not hail was the land of Goshen, where the Israelites were.

Ex 10:23 - 9th plague: No one could see anyone else or move about for three days. Yet all the Israelites had light in the places where they lived.

God also protected Lot and his family by removing them from the place that He was going to destroy, by fleeing to the small city of Zoar.

Right. Great example: NOT. What did Lot do after he walked away from the danger? Got his 2 virgin daughters pregnant in a cave.

When the tribulation comes and the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments begin, there will be no arks to board and no small cities to run to, because God's wrath will come upon all who dwell on the face of the whole earth.

Rev 3:10 - Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth.

This promise is ONLY FOR those who have endured. God keeps THEM from the hour of trial. This verse does not support a pretrib rapture for ALL of God's people.

This is also why we do not see the word church mentioned anywhere within the narrative of God's wrath in the book of Revelation, i.e. the church is gone.

This is fallacious. We find the first 3 chapters of Rev were directly FOR the church. And in the final chapter we find this verse:

22:16 - “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”

So, without a doubt, the ENTIRE book is FOR the church. So they will know what's coming, and be ready for it.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Do not be confused about the return of Christ or OUR gathering to Him (the rapture), that it can happen at any moment because it will NOT happen at any moment.

First off, that's not Paul point in this passage (2Th2);

Second, pre-tribbers such as myself (as you might be supposing DO), do not say our Rapture can happen "AT ANY MOMENT"... that is NOT what scholars mean by the term "imminent".

[btw, "our Rapture" event is at a SET TIME]



Rather, that term "imminent" means (as pre-trib scholars use it), that NO "[biblically-defined] SIGNS" PRECEDE "our Rapture" (thus pointing to/toward it);
Instead, ALL "[biblically-defined] SIGNS" FOLLOW "our Rapture" and LEAD UP TO / POINT TOWARD His Second Coming to the earth Rev19.


It does NOT mean [Jesus can come / our Rapture can occur] "at any moment". This is not how "pre-trib" scholars use this term.

 

[Absolutely]

Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Another thing that pre-tribs stumble over is that Revelation 3:10's, "keep thee from" which is the Greek "tereo ge ek".
"tereo ek" is only found in one other place in the bible and the context means to be kept from something while remaining present until it ends. This is true of examples of plagues, wrath, and tribulation where people were there and lived through those events and weren't removed from the Earth to escape them.



John 16:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them [tereo ek] from the evil one.

Jesus did not pray that God would take people out of this world to keep them from the evil one. That means Jesus does not approve of rapturing people out of this world to protect them from the evil one.

No one is going to be taken out of the world so they can be "kept" from the evil one. That's not how God does things. The rapture is not an exception to that.

Anyone teaching a Pre-trib rapture is going directly against the teaching of Jesus in the above verse.

Ironically Jesus not only taught pretrib but declared we are to "pray that you may be counted WORTHY to escape the things about to come upon the entire plant..."

Psssst...you need noah taken out/removed AFTER THE FLOOD.
....and lot taken out/removed AFTER THE JUDGEMENT.
....and the baby Jesus removed AFTER the slaughter of the firstborn.

You NEED all that ( you know the stuff you omit that is not going away) taken out( no pun intended) from the bible

 

[Jesusistheway64]

So, @Jesusistheway64 , I gather you do not believe there is any such thing as [what we call] "Rapture" AT ALL?? (the "SNATCH / CAUGHT UP / HARPAZO"-action [G726] that 1Th4:17 speaks of, but which is explained or talked about in other passages also--that is, in more than merely this ONE verse, but which Paul speaks of using a variety of terms and phrases in his two Thessalonians epistles... etc).

Am I reading you right?







@Mem , do you believe the same as [member] Jesusistheway64 ^ , that there is NO "rapture / snatch / caught up / harpazo"-action... that this *idea* (we speak of) is merely a kind of "hyper-spiritualism" and "sensationalism" as you mentioned?... so that (in your view) it is almost "ridiculous" to think that anyone will actually "exit the earth" (TO the MEETING of the Lord IN THE AIR)? Are you suggesting this is not what G726 refers to (as well as the other terms and phrases Paul uses for this event)??
I'm just trying to ascertain your viewpoint... are you saying NO ONE will "vanish" out of other ppl's sight?? [reflective of what Jesus Himself did in His glorified body ON His Resurrection Day / ON Firstfruit (Lev23:10-12), per Luke 24:31]

I believe what Jesus said in Matthew 24. Rapture is a made up word anyway. Just like the Trinity doctrine. The Second coming of Jesus is what I believe..you guys think what scriptures you write down proves the rapture.. Yall twist things..Darby is the one came up with rapture.. He was freemason deciever. I am not really wanting to debate Gods word with you. Its useless..

 

[Jesusistheway64]

False doctrines are a big issue in the church. I wasn't denying that. How do you propose we solve that problem?

Were are not going to solve it. Its always been like that. Really no point in debating it with them. It's a waste of time.

 

[Runningman]

Were are not going to solve it. Its always been like that. Really no point in debating it with them. It's a waste of time.

I like debating to be honest. As long as it's civil, it can be very productive. Sure, rarely do people budge from their firmly-held position, but examining the scripture and asking the hard questions is not in vain. This is not idle time in my belief. I have learned so much being on this message board.

Give it a chance and talk to people and really take time to "Be a Berean."

 

[JerryInBoston]

Left Behind Secret Rapture is a lie made up by Satan.

Remember, Left Behind Secret Rapture and rapture are two different things.

The bottom link talks about the rapture and what is rapture.

http://testallthings.com/2010/05/31/when-is-the-rapture/


The Word of God says that Jesus comes immediately AFTER the tribulation.
Matthew 24:29-31, Mark 13:24-27, John 17:15

We don't know the exact day, time and hour of the Real Jesus Christ 2nd Coming, but we do know the signs.

Before the Real Jesus Christ comes back: Great earthquake that shakes Earth and Heaven, sun shall be turned into darkness, moon into blood, stars shall withdraw their shining, heaven rolled like a scroll, every mountain and island moved out of their places, great hail out of heaven pelting on some of Satan's children on earth.

Isaiah 13:9-13, Ezekiel 38:19-23, Joel 2:10-11, Joel 2:30-32, Haggai 2:6, 21, Matthew 24:29-34, Matthew 24:35, Mark 13:24-29, Mark 13:31, Acts 2:19-20, Luke 21:25-33 and Hebrews 12:26-28, Revelation 6:12-17, Compare Daniel 7:13-14, 27, Ezekiel 13:13, Revelation 11:15-19, Revelation 16:17-21

http://repent5610.blogspot.com/2012/12/there-is-no-secret-rapture.html

If you are interested in freedom from sin and how do we receive the Holy Spirit? read below.
After God gave me the Holy Spirit, I found proof that TV, movies, novels, music, video games and computer games are all sins, except Christian stuff that don’t have sins like sermons and Christian music words that gives messages. I found out that in them there is lying, stealing, adultery (Matthew 5:28 looking at someone with lust is adultery), fornication which is sex before marriage, revenge, murder, jealousy, pride=self-pity, hypocrisy, using God’s name in vain as a curse word, they are all idols (breaks 2nd Commandment) because most people can’t live without them and they love them more than God and more. Just read the 10 commandments for a list.

1 John 2:15 King James Version (KJV)


15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 New King James Version

9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.


Now I will be preaching about how to receive the Holy Spirit and be 100% going to Heaven.

First, it’s only by the grace of God that he gives you faith in Jesus Christ in order to give up your sins. It’s only by the grace of God that he leads you to pray to him to destroy all your evil desires of watching TV or any sinful desires. When you pray to God to destroy all your evil desires of watching TV or sinful desires (Romans 6:6-7 and Galatians 5:24), Satan will intervene and extremely tempt you in watching the TV. But if it’s God’s will and if you are one of God’s elects, you will overcome it and God will destroy all your evil desires of watching TV. After God has destroyed all your evil desires of watching TV and if you are one of God’s elects, you receive the joy of the Holy Spirit for about 40 minutes. After the joy wears off, all existence of boredom no longer exists and you no longer burn out (psychology) anymore. That is when you have received the Holy Spirit.

Then it’s by the grace of God that he forgives you of your sins, as you confess and repent of your sins throughout your life which is called sanctification. But you can watch Christian stuff that don’t have sins (Like sermons) because that helps you grow more mature as a Christian spiritually and for more information about this sermon, go to spreadthegospel59.wordpress.com then go to
The short version of “To be free from sin (sin deceives and hurts everyone) and how do we receive the Holy Spirit?”

Why does God hate sin? | GotQuestions.org
What does it mean that “you were bought with a price” (1 Corinthians 6:20; 7:23)? | GotQuestions.org
Sin Will Never Make You Happy
(What does the Bible say about hypocrisy? | GotQuestions.org)
Gives thanks to God, that you are free from sin (sin deceives=never satisfied no matter how many times you do it,
gives pain, makes you guilty, go from bad to worse)
if you are one of God’s elect, to fight off self-pity is to give thanks to God for everything. What does the Bible say about self-pity? | GotQuestions.org
Is eternal security a “license” to sin? | GotQuestions.org

The reason why am hated for no reason since I were physically born and never fit in is because am one of God’s elects. (John 15:18-19)


Just so you know Jesus had to carry all of God’s elects sins and endure the punishment for God’s elects sins which is Hellfire spiritually, which is extreme love and mercy.
Go to the bottom website, for better explanation.
https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/jesus-eternal-punishment-hours/

Herein lies the problem: one teaches pretrib rapture, another teaches midtrib rapture, another teaches post-trib rapture, another teaches prewrath rapture, and each of them backs up their respective position with scripture. Not all are right, but all believe they are right, some even go to extremes calling others heretics and demon possessed for the position they teach.

Here is the best position to be in: born again, saved by God's grace through your faith in Jesus, following the Lord and living your life as He has commanded. If you take this position, you'll be sure to be rapture ready. 😊

 

[Jesusistheway64]

I like debating to be honest. As long as it's civil, it can be very productive. Sure, rarely do people budge from their firmly-held position, but examining the scripture and asking the hard questions is not in vain. This is not idle time in my belief. I have learned so much being on this message board.

Give it a chance and talk to people and really take time to "Be a Berean."

Pre tribulation beleivers tend to be militant. They absolutely do not want to be here during the tribulation. They will blindly follow man made doctrine. Heck I would love not to possiblely get my head chopped off. Or what ever else they may to do us. But the truth is you cant twist something because you want to avoid persecution. Actually to die for Jesus is the greatest thing you can do Glory him.