Jesus comes immediately AFTER the tribulation, there is no Left Behind Secret Rapture=Stop causing fear.

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Jackson123

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Feb 6, 2014
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In mat 25 half left behind
In mat 24 half left behind.
In rev , the innumerable number had dirty robes and were FROM THE GREAT TRIB. THEY HAD TO WASH THEIR ROBES. THEY were left behind at the rapture.
They are the foolish virgins of mat 25.
GT happen after tribulation in 2 Tess Paul say rapture happen after a man of lawlessness/great tribulation

Paul warn don't anyone deceive you
So Paul know there will lie doctrine that say rapture before a man of lawlessness and don't believe it

2 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, 2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. 3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness[a] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.
 

ewq1938

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Oct 18, 2018
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Sorry, but John was not in the future; he only saw a VISION of the future.

John was literally taken to the future to witness the events and while there he wrote down what he saw proving he wasn't just having a vision but was physically there.

John was taken to the future in Rev. When he was there he was writing things down that he saw...that was taken back with him to his own time.


Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
Rev 1:2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

Rev_1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

Rev_1:19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

Rev_10:4 And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.

He literally saw the future because he was taken there, wrote down what he saw in a literal book, and brought that book back with him when he returned to his own time.
 

Rondonmon

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May 13, 2016
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Your math is terrible. The 144k are 144k, not 143k and certainly not millions.
Is the Woman also a WOMAN? No, it is Israel in CODE, so are the 144.000. Are the 10 Virgins the COMPLETE Bride? Or are the all Females :)cool:) The 10 Brides are the COMPLETE Church. The 144,000 Male Virgins are ALL the Jews who Repent. :coffee::coffee::coffee:
 

ewq1938

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Is the Woman also a WOMAN? No, it is Israel in CODE, so are the 144.000.
Not exact numbers. Was Christ in grave 3 days and nights or was it 3-5 million days and nights? Is there two witnesses or 8? How many trumpets? Seven or 1700?

Changing numbers means changing the text of Revelation.

Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.


So, are you going to accept 12k from each of the 12 tribes, 144k, or go with your made up number of 3-5 million?
 

Rondonmon

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May 13, 2016
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Not exact numbers. Was Christ in grave 3 days and nights or was it 3-5 million days and nights? Is there two witnesses or 8? How many trumpets? Seven or 1700?
This not comparable, I am not going to waste time trying to teach the obvious.
'You first clue should be that God doesn't set a specific number to save, and God uses numbers all the time, so God can use 10 Virgins but not 12 x 12 x 10 x 10 x 10 or FULNESS x COMPLETION. Th reason you can't understand the book of Revelation is you don't understand how to decode it, if you could you would be able to grasp the simple facts that NIWERE in the Seal are they described as Judgments, but in Rev. 8 and 16 they are called Judgments, thus the Seal only SEAL UP the scroll, the Judgments can only be announced or readied after the Scroll is opened, thus the Seals are Jesus opening up the Judgment Book, BEFORE he Wrath falls, thus Rev. 7 is also BEFORE he Wrath falls in Rev. 8, thus Rev. 7 is the Jews who repented Fleeing Judea.

I understand, you are guessing.
 

ewq1938

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This not comparable, I am not going to waste time trying to teach the obvious.

I will. It is obvious that changing things in Revelation is very dangerous and dumb. You are gambling with your soul and that isn't wise. Do I have to explain Revelation 22 to you as well?

When God says he will seal 144,000 Jewish males, he means it. It's a remnant but you are turning it into something not written in the bible.
 
Mar 4, 2020
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Jesus does come immediately after the tribulation.

When does or did He come?

And HOW did He come?
yeah. It's plainly stated that Jesus comes after the tribulation to gather His elect. No other verses describes His coming with such precision as the Olivet Discourse does. Therefore, it's inappropriate to come to a contradictory conclusion about multiple comings or a pre-tribulation coming of Christ.

It's really that simple.
 
Nov 27, 2021
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This is what is going to happen. The Holy Spirit will wake up this sleeping church. It will discover through illumination that we have been deceived and it will cause a great many to mourn because it will have been a complete waste of time and comes as a great shock to us all to discover that Christ has been ruling in the heavens and has returned in such away that doesn’t fit our model on our charts, posters and movies.

When someone calls me a heretic, I take great comfort in that. They said the same thing to the prophets and even about Jesus.

I am free from the fear of tomorrow,
I am free from the guilt of my past.
I’ve traded my shackles for a glorious crown,
I am free Praise the LORD free at last.
 

ewq1938

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Oct 18, 2018
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This is what is going to happen. The Holy Spirit will wake up this sleeping church. It will discover through illumination that we have been deceived and it will cause a great many to mourn because it will have been a complete waste of time and comes as a great shock to us all to discover that Christ has been ruling in the heavens and has returned in such away that doesn’t fit our model on our charts, posters and movies.

When someone calls me a heretic, I take great comfort in that. They said the same thing to the prophets and even about Jesus.

I am free from the fear of tomorrow,
I am free from the guilt of my past.
I’ve traded my shackles for a glorious crown,
I am free Praise the LORD free at last.
You forgot:

I am free to accuse the Church as being asleep because they don't agree with my doctrine.
 
Nov 27, 2021
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I don’t accuse anyone. And it’s not my doctrine. As Paul said, “I went up by revelation”.

Why are you accusing me of accusing others? I have not, and will not engage in fruitless arguing over a subject that is so clearly seen, yet continues to be argued about with strife and bitterness.

I know, I was deeply engaged and argued vehemently as a Post Tribber. But again, like Paul, he was zealous at what he believed to be the truth until he was knocked down one day and shown a different light. “who are you LORD?”“
”I am Jesus whom you persecutest”.

I can only point here and there, it’s up to the individual whether or not they want to know.

If you don’t want to know, it’s not for you. I am only interested in those who want to know.

The above was written for you, what is below is written for others.


Jesus hardly ever dealt with those who knew it all, but spoke to those who hadn’t a clue what He was talking about. Yet they gave ear to Him, and some were there to get a hand out or to see a miracle, but even in the midst of that there were a few people that wanted to know the deeper truths.

Every time I pray, I come to the LORD knowing absolutely nothing. What I know, poof, big deal, it’s not worth considering up against ultimate knowledge and power.

But, in my journey, I found out that it was far better to listen then to speak..

When the Holy Ghost started to show me that Christ had already returned, I was dumbstruck. I set the bible on the shelf for a few years because I couldn’t read it anymore. Then, He comes to me and says, “Be not conformed to the Church mindset of the world, but be conformed by the renewing of your mind by the washing of the word and the renewing of the Holy Ghost”.

I began a different journey. I took the bible off the shelf and for the first time in my life, I was seeing Jesus in every chapter and the bible became brand new.

As long as I knew it all, I was no longer pliable, but when I became willing God could take me and do whatever He needed to do to get me into the position of receiving. “to many as received Him, to them, He gave them the power to be come sons of God”.

Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth. The importance of having mercy far out weighs the sacrifice of pride. In the end, God resisteth the proud and gives grace unto the humble.

A humble person is meek. When we are meek, we can receive the engrafted word however it comes. It may come from the most unlikely people. But, we should be ready to hear just in case.

John came to point the way, that is all we can do too. It’s up to us to take the steps toward Christ.

Good night saints.
 

ewq1938

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Oct 18, 2018
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I don’t accuse anyone.

You said the church is sleeping and deceived. Those are serious accusations. Accusation is the tool of the enemy.

Rev_12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
 

Jackson123

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Feb 6, 2014
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You said the church is sleeping and deceived. Those are serious accusations. Accusation is the tool of the enemy.

Rev_12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
2 tes 2

3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness[a] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

Paul want the tesalonian church not to be deceived that rapture before a man of lawlessness/great tribulation
In other word Paul say, Don't believe lie pre trib doctrine
 
Aug 2, 2021
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2 tes 2

3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness[a] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

Paul want the tesalonian church not to be deceived that rapture before a man of lawlessness/great tribulation
In other word Paul say, Don't believe lie pre trib doctrine
The Apostle John is a True Witness to the 2 Thessalonians 2:1-5

Children, it is the last hour; and just as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have appeared. This is how we know it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they did not belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. But their departure made it clear that none of them belonged to us.

There are 4 Witnesses who bear witness to the Antichrist coming BEFORE the Second Coming of Christ

1st Witness = The LORD Jesus Christ - Matt ch24 and Revelation
2nd Witness = The Apostle Paul - 2 Thess ch2 & 1 Timothy 4:1
3rd Witness = The Apostle John - 1 John 2:18-19
4th Witness = Prophet Job - Book of Job & James ch5
 

Friend

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Dec 7, 2021
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Sorry, but this is myth. John is very clear on the timing of the marriage: in heaven and JUST before Jesus comes to Armageddon.
“Come up Here!”

Rev 3:22 ‘He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit is saying to the churches.’”

Jesus says that the seven churches are the seven golden lamp stands

Rev 1:20 “As for the mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches

Jesus says that He walks among the seven golden lamp stands

Rev 2:1“To the angel of the church in Ephesus write: The One who holds the seven stars in His right hand, the One who walks among the seven golden lampstands, says this:

Now Jesus is saying He is holding the Seven Spirits of God. And we will soon see where they come from and where they go.

Rev 3:1 “To the angel of the church in Sardis write: He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars, says this: ‘I know your deeds, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead.

Ok here is the Rapture but more importantly is what comes after this verse and the next

Rev 4:1 After these things I looked, and behold, a door open in heaven, and the first voice which I had heard, like the sound of a trumpet speaking with me, said, "Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after these things.

After a reception of lightning and thunder Seven Lamps of Fire appear in front of the throne; and look what it says they are. Now the lamps that were on earth are before the throne, and do you remember what Jesus said the lamps were: thats right He said the were the churches; But now they are being called the Seven Spirits of God. And it just keeps getting better.

Rev 4:5 Out from the throne come flashes of lightning and sounds and peals of thunder. And there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God

So lets do a little review: Jesus said that the seven golden lamps on earth are the churches. Then after a voice like the sound of trumpet says come up here, and after a reception of lightning and thunder coming out from the throne: now the seven lamps are in heaven, but now they are being called the Seven Spirit of God. So you can look at the previous verse to see that it's all true. But move forward is the greatest thing we could ever see. So now we know the Seven Spirits of God are the Seven Churches.​
Rev 5:6 And I saw between the throne (with the four living creatures) and the elders a Lamb standing, as if it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, that were sent out into all the earth.

So there we have it. The greatest thing one could ever imagine: Right there is the Head of the Lamb are Seven Eyes that are the Seven Spirits of God that were sent to ALL THE EARTH.​

So We are on The Throne Just As Jesus Promised We would be. Therefore, We are Raptured off of the Earth and seated on Our throne, Immediately before all the Murder and Mayhem begins.

Below is the Promise.

Rev 3:21-22 ‘He who overcomes, I will grant to Him to sit down with Me on My throne, just as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne. Rev

Rev 3:22 ‘He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit is saying to the churches.’”
 

Friend

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Sorry, but John was not in the future; he only saw a VISION of the future. He, John, was perhaps in 95 AD when he saw this vision.
But Jesus says He always walks among the Seven Golden Lamp Stands, and It says the John was in the Spirit which is being in God. We are not in any way limited by our flesh: God is in Us.​

Gal 2:20 “I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.​

“Come up Here!”

Rev 3:22 ‘He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit is saying to the churches.’”

Jesus says that the seven churches are the seven golden lamp stands

Rev 1:20 “As for the mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches

Jesus says that He walks among the seven golden lamp stands

Rev 2:1“To the angel of the church in Ephesus write: The One who holds the seven stars in His right hand, the One who walks among the seven golden lampstands, says this:

Now Jesus is saying He is holding the Seven Spirits of God. And we will soon see where they come from and where they go.

Rev 3:1 “To the angel of the church in Sardis write: He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars, says this: ‘I know your deeds, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead.

Ok here is the Rapture but more importantly is what comes after this verse and the next

Rev 4:1 After these things I looked, and behold, a door open in heaven, and the first voice which I had heard, like the sound of a trumpet speaking with me, said, "Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after these things.

After a reception of lightning and thunder Seven Lamps of Fire appear in front of the throne; and look what it says they are. Now the lamps that were on earth are before the throne, and do you remember what Jesus said the lamps were: thats right He said the were the churches; But now they are being called the Seven Spirits of God. And it just keeps getting better.

Rev 4:5 Out from the throne come flashes of lightning and sounds and peals of thunder. And there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God

So lets do a little review: Jesus said that the seven golden lamps on earth are the churches. Then after a voice like the sound of trumpet says come up here, and after a reception of lightning and thunder coming out from the throne: now the seven lamps are in heaven, but now they are being called the Seven Spirit of God. So you can look at the previous verse to see that it's all true. But move forward is the greatest thing we could ever see. So now we know the Seven Spirits of God are the Seven Churches.​
Rev 5:6 And I saw between the throne (with the four living creatures) and the elders a Lamb standing, as if it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, that were sent out into all the earth.

So there we have it. The greatest thing one could ever imagine: Right there is the Head of the Lamb are Seven Eyes that are the Seven Spirits of God that were sent to ALL THE EARTH.​

So We are on The Throne Just As Jesus Promised We would be. Therefore, We are Raptured off of the Earth and seated on Our throne, Immediately before all the Murder and Mayhem begins.

Below is the Promise.

Rev 3:21-22 ‘He who overcomes, I will grant to Him to sit down with Me on My throne, just as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne. Rev

Rev 3:22 ‘He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit is saying to the churches.’”
 

Friend

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Do you know what "Secret" means? Well, in the bible Mystery means a Secret by God's Silence, because the word used means "TO SHUT THE MOUTH"
From my Original King James/Greek study guide
1 Corinthians 15:51
Behold, 2400 z5628 I shew 3004 z5719 you 5213 a mysterie: 3466 we shall y2837 z0 not 3756 all 3956 y3303 sleepe, 2837 z5701 but 1161 wee shall y236 z0 all 3956 be changed, 236 z5691
#3466 μυστήριον musterion {moos-tay'-ree-on}
from a derivative of muo (to shut the mouth); TDNT - 4:802,615; n n
—Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) hidden thing, secret, mystery
1a) generally mysteries, religious secrets, confided only to the
initiated and not to ordinary mortals
1b) a hidden or secret thing, not obvious to the understanding
—Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)
From a derivative of μύω [[muo]] (to shut the mouth); a secret or "mystery" (through the idea of silence imposed by initiation into religious rites):—mystery.
—Strong's (Greek Dictionary of the New Testament)
So, Paul is telling you this MYSTERY he has been shown, heretofore has been a SECRET not revealed by God in the scriptures, thus we do not see the Rapture of the Church in the Old Testament because the Jews only repent during the 70th week fir the most part, we can however add it up in certain scriptures in the Old Testament, if we know what to look for. The problem with too many Christians is they CONFLATE prophesies about the Old Testament Saints and the Church of Jesus Christ. Whenever Jesus (who stated e was sent to the Jews ONLY) is saying in Matt. 24 and other places that he will come IMMEDIALY AFTER the 70th week Tribulation, he's talking about coming to save the Jewish peoples, the ONLY ONES he was called unto, he wouldn't even speak to the Samaritan woman until her FAITH MOVED him. The Centurion's GREAT FAITH moved him !! But he preached only unto the Jews, so why do you guts nit understand Matt. 24 is unto the Jews? Even the 70 he sent out he forbade from going to the Gentiles, Jesus then sent Paul unto the Gentiles, then Paul says I tell you a MYSTERY (Secret) that God has not told anyone here to fore. The Dead IN CHRIST (not the Jews of old, the Dead in the Grave) will come out with NO SIN FLESH (uncorrupted with sin flesh = No Flesh, the Arise as Spirit men) will rise FIRST (but I say this is just Paul trying to keep them from fearing that there loved one would not be taken, because those of us still alive will be taken a Blink of and Eyelid later, so lets be real, its all at the EXACT SAME TIME) and then the living will be CHANGED (this means we must leave our CORRUPTED FLESH on this earth and go to heaven as Spirit Men without the CORRUPTED SIN FLESH).

“Come up Here!”

Rev 3:22 ‘He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit is saying to the churches.’”

Below Jesus says that the seven churches are the seven golden lamp stands

Jesus is telling us what the mystery is in order that we can solve it (follow the Sevens)

Rev 1:20 “(((As for the mystery))) of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and (((the seven lampstands are the seven churches)))

Jesus says that He walks among the seven golden lamp stands

Rev 2:1“To the angel of the church in Ephesus write: The One who holds the seven stars in His right hand, the One who walks among the seven golden lampstands, says this:

Now Jesus is saying He is holding the Seven Spirits of God. And we will soon see where they come from and where they go.

Rev 3:1 “To the angel of the church in Sardis write: He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars, says this: ‘I know your deeds, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead.

Ok here is the Rapture but more importantly is what comes after this verse and the next

Rev 4:1 After these things I looked, and behold, a door open in heaven, and the first voice which I had heard, like the sound of a trumpet speaking with me, said, "Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after these things.

After a reception of lightning and thunder Seven Lamps of Fire appear in front of the throne; and look what it says they are. Now the lamps that were on earth are before the throne, and do you remember what Jesus said the lamps were: that's right, He said they were the churches; But now they are being called the Seven Spirits of God. And it just keeps getting better.

Rev 4:5 Out from the throne come flashes of lightning and sounds and peals of thunder. And there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God

A little review: Jesus said that the seven golden lamps on earth are the churches. Then after a voice like the sound of trumpet says come up here, and after a reception of lightning and thunder coming out from the throne: now the seven lamps are in heaven, but now they are being called the Seven Spirit of God. So you can look at the previous verse to see that it's all true. But move forward is the greatest thing we could ever see. So now we know the Seven Spirits of God are the Seven Churches.​

Rev 5:6 And I saw between the throne (with the four living creatures) and the elders a Lamb standing, as if it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, that were sent out into all the earth.

So there we have it. The greatest thing one could ever imagine: Right there is the Head of the Lamb are Seven Eyes that are the Seven Spirits of God that were sent to ((((ALL THE EARTH)))).​

So here We are on the Throne Just As Jesus Promised We would be. Therefore, We are Raptured off of the Earth and seated on Our throne, Immediately before all the Murder and Mayhem begins.

Below is the Promised Throne.

Rev 3:21-22 ‘He who overcomes, I will grant to Him to sit down with Me on My throne, just as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne. Rev

Rev 3:22 ‘He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit is saying to the churches.’”
 

Rondonmon

Senior Member
May 13, 2016
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I will. It is obvious that changing things in Revelation is very dangerous and dumb. You are gambling with your soul and that isn't wise. Do I have to explain Revelation 22 to you as well?

When God says he will seal 144,000 Jewish males, he means it. It's a remnant but you are turning it into something not written in the bible.
When we get to heaven I will be proven correct, and you will be told you were wrong.

Is the Woman being changed also? Or is a CODE for Israel?

You haven't got a clue on the book of Revelation, you can't even get the timing of the Two-witnesses down, the way you divide it up is really mind boggling for a supposed engineer.

When Jesus said 10 Virgin Brides did he mean that? Or was the 10 Brides a stand in fir the Church, why doge that? Because it proves you wrong, that's why you dodge it.

Those Jews who are the 3-5 million who repent, flee Judea right before God's Wrath falls. That wrath happens in Revelation 8, not in Rev. 6, thus in Rev. 7 we see them fleeing, the Multitude seen in Rev. 7:9-17 CAN NOT come from the 70th week, if you knew the bible you would be able to deduce that but pride is a hard trait to overcome. The Martyrs under the altar at the 5th Seal are specifically told they MUST WAIT until the Bests 42 month reign ends because they are told they must wait until all of their brothers have died on like manner as they did before they can get vengeance on those people on earth who killed them ? Can you add that up? And in Rev. 20:4 we see those who refused the Mark of the Beast and were this killed are only raised AND Judged AFTER Jesus Second Coming, so those seen in Rev. 7:9-17 CAN NOT come out of the 70th week, so that means the can only come out of the Great Church Age Tribulation period, and 2000 is GREATER than 7. I prove all these facts, you ignored them on Worthy and run and hide from the facts, that's why I never get in a conversation with you, you don't care about the facts as written in the bible. Bible truths via scriptures are an inconvenience to your understandings it seems, even when proven wrong, you just dodge the facts and keep going.

The Rev. 12:17 Remnant CAN NOT be Jews, it can ONLY be the Remnant Church, its right thee n the scriptures, and it goes over your head or you just dodge it. When you get to heaven and remember all the people you called dumb, and ignorant, than see you were the one who was wrong on almost everything, you will be in utter shock.