Jesus killed the law causing enmity to cease

[jaybird88]

Jesus clearly said he did not come to destroy the law but to fulfill it. The Law is God's holy words and he said his words will never disappear until things have come to pass, I myself find that obeying the law brings me closer to God

i couldnt agree more.

if the law was done away then why did Jesus say - "For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

that could not be more clear to me. furthermore, why would Jesus continue to quote from the Law if it was no more?
if it was faith and grace alone, and there was no law or teachings to follow, then why would Jesus even bother with all the teaching? one of His titles is Great Teacher!

 

[Blain]

You know God is quite clever, He designed the law in a way so that only one with a heart full of love could truly follow it and understand it. Just as he made it where only one with the holy spirit can truly read and understand his word

 

[Grandpa]

You know God is quite clever, He designed the law in a way so that only one with a heart full of love could truly follow it and understand it. Just as he made it where only one with the holy spirit can truly read and understand his word

Its sad more than it is clever.

The majority of the whole world thinks they can fulfill Gods Law by their own work.

Then some, same category, spiritualize the law and still think they can fulfill Gods Law by their "spiritual" work.


But your statement is absolute Truth. Only the One with the Heart full of Love could follow and understand Gods Law.

 

[posthuman]

it's not the law that died.

it's us.

the law has no power over the dead.
(Romans 6-8)

 

[Grandpa]

I wonder why the law holds such contention between people who say they believe in Christ.

I wonder why people hold on so tightly to their own work at it.

There must be a good reason that I am just not grasping.

Is it pride that causes someone to lean on their knowledge of the law and continue to attempt to work at it?

Why would a dead person continue to observe that which caused his death? How could they?

If they were instead alive to God, wouldn't they want to continue to observe what made them alive to God?

Somewhere in all this is a Gross Conceptual Error. Paul points it out very simply.

Galatians 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Galatians 3:11-12
[SUP]11 [/SUP]But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

 

[JaumeJ]

Faith is the driving factor and gift that keeps us obedient, Children of obedience.

If we obey Jesus Christ, we obey all He has taught us as bestwe can.

The law is not the law of faith within us written, now containing mercy and pardon, but this is no excuse for any child of God to teache ignoring what we are to obey, obey according to the teaching of Jesus Christ and HIs Example.

No one who believe Jesus can say in honesty we are not to follow His example, no one.

God bless all who are in Jesus Christ, amen.

 

[jaybird88]

I wonder why the law holds such contention between people who say they believe in Christ.

I wonder why people hold on so tightly to their own work at it.

There must be a good reason that I am just not grasping.

Is it pride that causes someone to lean on their knowledge of the law and continue to attempt to work at it?

Why would a dead person continue to observe that which caused his death? How could they?

If they were instead alive to God, wouldn't they want to continue to observe what made them alive to God?

Somewhere in all this is a Gross Conceptual Error. Paul points it out very simply.

Galatians 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Galatians 3:11-12
[SUP]11 [/SUP]But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

what you posted makes me think, dont put my faith in the law. i couldnt agree more. my faith goes to the Allmighty while i do what i can to follow His laws.
i dont see what following law has to do with believing Jesus was the Son of the Almighty, or beleiving in His words or following His teachings.what difference does it make? where does Jesus say if we follow the law it means we are rejecting Him.
this has always been the weirdest debate for me cause i truly dont get what the other side sees that i dont.

 

[just-me]

I wonder why the law holds such contention between people who say they believe in Christ.

I wonder why people hold on so tightly to their own work at it.

There must be a good reason that I am just not grasping.

Is it pride that causes someone to lean on their knowledge of the law and continue to attempt to work at it?

Why would a dead person continue to observe that which caused his death? How could they?

If they were instead alive to God, wouldn't they want to continue to observe what made them alive to God?

Somewhere in all this is a Gross Conceptual Error. Paul points it out very simply.

Galatians 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Galatians 3:11-12
[SUP]11 [/SUP]But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

There is a desire on both sides of the fence for the other person in my estimation. I have a desire for you as you do for me, but rejection by only one person will never get rid of the barrier. It is true that faith is the primary foundation for all who believe. But the rhetorical question is "what is faith in God supposed to do in us?" Galatians chapter 3 is not rejected by those who observe the law that God gave to Moses (observation not of self works) IF they have faith in the truth through Christ. Neither is the law seen as having no spiritual validity by those who have faith.

Where you are coming from is that law observance is only by works of the flesh, with a carnal mind, such as the Pharisees. I think you believe that observing the law is always minus faith, so law observing actions and thoughts are totally in vain.

My thoughts, on the other hand, is that no man is justified by the law, and faith is not acquired by observing it. (Galatians 3:11-12) On the same token, if one's belief is built on faith in Christ Jesus, then they establish the law because it isn't by works of the flesh, but by faith.

"Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law." (Romans 3:31)

If the law has been made void, then Paul would have never written this, for it is impossible to establish or fulfill something that doesn't exist.

If we reject this part of God's holy word by our outlook of the way faith needs to be maintained, we need to ask ourselves "could my mindset be a carnal way of thinking because I reject the law of God, or do I visualize God's law as a carnal law under the new covenant? Does my faith demand me to reject this part God's word, known as the law, even though Jesus said we live by every word God has spoken?"

All scripture is given for our learning whether saved or not. (2 Timothy 3:16) The choice of rejection, or adhering has always been left up to the individual so that a reciprocating love relationship is possible through Christ Jesus. It is impossible for the carnal mind to be in subjection to every word of God, but by faith is it possible by a God given heart's desire, and not the flesh.

"Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be." (Romans 8:7)

The Galatians were putting faith in God aside and not keeping it as their foundational belief. They were practicing Pharisaic ritualism, seeking approval from God by their own works and that's why Paul wrote to them as he did. Faith in Christ Jesus is the foundation in everything we believe that is substantial, and everlasting.

Galatians 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

 

[Elin]

Faith is the driving factor and gift that keeps us obedient, Children of obedience.

If we obey Jesus Christ, we obey all He has taught us as bestwe can.

The law is not the law of faith within us written, now containing mercy and pardon, but this is no excuse for any child of God to teache ignoring what we are to obey, obey according to the teaching of Jesus Christ and HIs Example.

No one who believe Jesus can say in honesty we are not to follow His example, no one.

Straw man. . .

We are to follow all the new covenant word of God, not just the example of Jesus.

 

[Elin]

what you posted makes me think, dont put my faith in the law. i couldnt agree more. my faith goes to the Allmighty while i do what i can to follow His laws.
i dont see what following law has to do with believing Jesus was the Son of the Almighty, or beleiving in His words or following His teachings.what difference does it make?

You don't know the gospel.

where does Jesus say if we follow the law it means we are rejecting Him.
this has always been the weirdest debate for me cause i truly dont get what the other side sees that i dont.

 

[jsr1221]

what you posted makes me think, dont put my faith in the law. i couldnt agree more. my faith goes to the Allmighty while i do what i can to follow His laws.
i dont see what following law has to do with believing Jesus was the Son of the Almighty, or beleiving in His words or following His teachings.what difference does it make? where does Jesus say if we follow the law it means we are rejecting Him.
this has always been the weirdest debate for me cause i truly dont get what the other side sees that i dont.

Jesus is the law. We live by Him. This shouldn't even be a debate.

 

[Grandpa]

what you posted makes me think, dont put my faith in the law. i couldnt agree more. my faith goes to the Allmighty while i do what i can to follow His laws.
i dont see what following law has to do with believing Jesus was the Son of the Almighty, or beleiving in His words or following His teachings.what difference does it make? where does Jesus say if we follow the law it means we are rejecting Him.
this has always been the weirdest debate for me cause i truly dont get what the other side sees that i dont.

I guess all I had to do was think about it for a little while.

Look to myself, my kids and my grand-kids.

When my son was little I used to try to help him with everything. He couldn't tie his shoes. So I would do it. Then after he watched me he would try to do it himself.

I would ask him "do you want me to tie your shoes?". "No, me do it", he would say.
Do you want me to help you put your shirt on. No, me do it.

Its the same attitude I have and the same attitude the grand-kids have. We don't want someone to do it for us when we can do it ourselves.

I've never run into something, where, if I tried my very best I wasn't able to perform. I could always do it if I put in enough time and energy.

But then I tried to be Perfect before Christ. That's what the law is describing. The Perfect Man. Read Matthew 5.

No matter how hard I tried, in spite of how hard I tried, I couldn't cause myself to be Perfect before God.
Why???
They are commands. Why command something I am not able to do.
So I tried harder.
The harder I tried and the more I took every thought captive the more I found out I was not perfect before God.
I was in fact, worse off than when I had started.

Galatians 3:22-25
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.


Once I found out I couldn't do it myself I had to call out for Help. Lord Jesus Help me.

Once I found out where my Help was and where my blessing was there was no point in leaving.

Galatians 4:9,21
[SUP]9[/SUP]But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?

 

[Elin]

Jesus is the law. We live by Him. This shouldn't even be a debate.

Jesus never said that.

 

[jsr1221]

Jesus never said that.

I never said He did... But we do live for Jesus. So the only "law" we should be concerned of, is what Jesus says.

 

[Elin]

I never said He did... But we do live for Jesus. So the only "law" we should be concerned of, is what Jesus says.

Oh, I see. . .you weren't making a Biblical statement. . .sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

[jsr1221]

Oh, I see. . .you weren't making a Biblical statement. . .sorry for the misunderstanding.

It happens. And if you think about it, He kinda did say that. He said He's the Way. So if He's the Way, the Truth, then He's gotta be the standard for the law.

 

[just-me]

what you posted makes me think, dont put my faith in the law. i couldnt agree more. my faith goes to the Allmighty while i do what i can to follow His laws.
i dont see what following law has to do with believing Jesus was the Son of the Almighty, or beleiving in His words or following His teachings.what difference does it make? where does Jesus say if we follow the law it means we are rejecting Him.
this has always been the weirdest debate for me cause i truly dont get what the other side sees that i dont.

I agree with you.
Leviticus 19:11-18
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Ye shall not steal, neither deal falsely, neither lie one to another.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the Lord.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbour, neither rob him: the wages of him that is hired shall not abide with thee all night until the morning.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Thou shalt not curse the deaf, nor put a stumblingblock before the blind, but shalt fear thy God: I am the Lord.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honor the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour; I am the Lord.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the Lord.

Debating this subject is truly ridiculous. The argument goes on and on, and after a while the anti law people seem to be saying that through Christ I must reject verses 11 though 17 because I need to live by verse 18.

"For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints." 1 Corinthians 14:33

As you can tell, the OP and title of this thread is facetious in trying to expose this ridiculous debate. It's not God's Words that are at fault!

 

[jaybird88]

You don't know the gospel.

did i say something contradicting Jesus? you are correct in the fact that i dont fully understand all the knowledge in the teachings of Jesus. i think it would take many lifetimes to understand it all.

Jesus is the law. We live by Him. This shouldn't even be a debate.

I never said He did... But we do live for Jesus. So the only "law" we should be concerned of, is what Jesus says.

"Jesus is the law" i agree but i think this means different things to different people. to me it means follow His example/teachings. you say we chould be concerned with what Jesus says, i agree, but does Jesus not quote from the law in His teaching?

 

[seed_time_harvest]

"Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression." Romans 4:15

I have heard many on CC teach that this scripture says the law is opposed to love because wrath is love's opposition.
Then in order to cause transgressions to stop, the law was abolished and crucified with Christ.

Without the law we are righteous in the sight of God through faith in Christ, because God's grace is also opposed to the law.
God's grace, and God's law are arch enemies one with another.

"Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator." Galatians 3:19

This verse is referring to the way things were in Old Testament times before Christ was crucified. Now Jesus is the mediator of a better and New Covenant that gives believers peace with God because both the law and transgressions have been done away with by Christ Himself.

"Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law." 1 John 3:4

Then being justified by faith, we are not held guilty for our transgressions which means the law has been crucified with Christ. If we are foolish enough to observe the law, we heap transgressions upon ourselves and we are automatically under its condemnation the same way we were before we were born again. Who would ever want to do that and lose their salvation that the law will surely destroy and re-establish the enmity?

"Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:" Ephesians 2:15-16

This verse proves all of the above, and we are comfortable with these things because peace with God is comfortable. Don't you agree? The way this verse reads is that the ordinances are the commandments and laws, and not the Old Testament temple ordinances that contain laws and commandments.

So we see that Jesus abolished the law in His flesh when He said "It is finished" like "it is finally gone now" i.e. "fulfilled".

Now there is a new law because this division and enmity that the old law created has been crucified once and for all. At least this is what some believe and teach. Observing the law is the biggest threat to a person's salvation. This is what I have been taught in CC. What do you believe?

I flunked the course cause I don't believe it this way. Jesus came to change us, not His words.

JESUS perfect standard o righteousness did not change but Moses said if you keep the law you need to keep it all.
James said that if you offend the law at any point you have offended the whole thing
Paul said those under grace are not under law.The law was not made for a righteous man.

You can't mix your work with the work of CHRIST you will just polute the perfect work of CHRIST.

The same GOD that spoke in the old testament is the same GOD that spoke in the new testament but in the old testament they were only cleaning the outward man and they could not clean the inward man(bad thoughts ect...)

So if you want to continue believing in the law you really havn't come to the end of your flesh and trying to clean the inside all the while just being religious(going door to door trying to win converts using will-power and getting a big head telling people ...example...you want to be like me and this is not in truth and GOD won't except it GOD will only accept JESUS who was perfect.

You can't say I am going to help GOD by being more holy than that other guy.GOD knows who is more trusting of him.

tell me

Which chalk board is easier to write on
the one that is blank or the one that first needs to be erased.?

 

[gb9]

I agree with you.
Leviticus 19:11-18
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Ye shall not steal, neither deal falsely, neither lie one to another.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the Lord.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbour, neither rob him: the wages of him that is hired shall not abide with thee all night until the morning.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Thou shalt not curse the deaf, nor put a stumblingblock before the blind, but shalt fear thy God: I am the Lord.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honor the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour; I am the Lord.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the Lord.

Debating this subject is truly ridiculous. The argument goes on and on, and after a while the anti law people seem to be saying that through Christ I must reject verses 11 though 17 because I need to live by verse 18.

"For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints." 1 Corinthians 14:33

As you can tell, the OP and title of this thread is facetious in trying to expose this ridiculous debate. It's not God's Words that are at fault!

if you keep v. 18 you fulfill v. 11-17. God is more than a set of rules, by the way. but you law-lovers cannot see that.