Jesus or Paul?

[Ahwatukee]

Over and over again I witness to the fact that the Lord led me to repent of sin I was committing, and how my life underwent an indescribable transformation at that point. But people on this website always tell me that we are not under the law, and my message is a false one. They will refer to Paul’s statements about how we are not under the law. Here is an example:

But if you are led by the Spirit you are not under the law. Galatians 5:18 RSV

Good day 33,

Not being under the law and repentance are two different issues. There are those who don't understand the concept of "new covenant" and they equate "not being under the law" with "freedom to sin." We are not under the law, but scripture is clear that God requires repentance.

metanoéō (from 3326 /metá, "changed after being with" and 3539 /noiéō, "think") – properly, "think differently after," "after a change of mind"; to repent (literally, "think differently afterwards").

* Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord,

* Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

* Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

* In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

There's already a thread or two on women pastors. Can we please get back on topic.

This has nothing to do with women pastors. It has to do with paul vs Jesus, as the op stated, when there appears to be a discrepancy. Then I made the point that Paul even contradicted his OWN self (seemingly) when he said there was now no more male or female yet also stated women must not speak and must wear a covering over their head because of the angels, presumably meaning the sin of the parent is put on the children, which God said they had to stop saying and doing. If Paul had any idea that a letter he wrote would be declared to be from the mouth of God, he never would have said things like "I give my opinion here." Since when is a mans stated opinion the word of God?? So the church has a problem here. And also with "I think I have the mind of God on this..." Problem. I mean...I give my own opinion here, thus sayeth the Lord? Or, I think I have the mind of God on this matter, thus sayeth the Lord?

It's straight from the mouth of God even while the man is stating it is HIS OWN OPINION??
So, you see, it's not about women pastors.
It's about a real problem the church created and has never managed to clear up.

 

[hornetguy]

If Paul had any idea that a letter he wrote would be declared to be from the mouth of God, he never would have said things like "I give my opinion here." Since when is a mans stated opinion the word of God??

I disagree.... I think that is precisely why, in a couple of places, he clarified that what he was saying was only his opinion, and was not to be taken as inspired by God.

Otherwise, why make the distinction?

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Maybe because he saw a few times where they tried to make his every letter into laws?
I have more respect for women who insist on making it all laws for them to obey than who yoke themselves with only part of it but then feel free to not wear a hat or scarf. If you're going to yoke yourself anew at least try to follow the whole law.

 

[StanJ]

This has nothing to do with women pastors. It has to do with paul vs Jesus, as the op stated, when there appears to be a discrepancy. Then I made the point that Paul even contradicted his OWN self (seemingly) when he said there was now no more male or female yet also stated women must not speak and must wear a covering over their head because of the angels, presumably meaning the sin of the parent is put on the children, which God said they had to stop saying and doing. If Paul had any idea that a letter he wrote would be declared to be from the mouth of God, he never would have said things like "I give my opinion here." Since when is a mans stated opinion the word of God?? So the church has a problem here. And also with "I think I have the mind of God on this..." Problem. I mean...I give my own opinion here, thus sayeth the Lord? Or, I think I have the mind of God on this matter, thus sayeth the Lord?

It's straight from the mouth of God even while the man is stating it is HIS OWN OPINION??
So, you see, it's not about women pastors.
It's about a real problem the church created and has never managed to clear up.

Again this topic is not about women's pastors and what Paul taught on that subject, it is about Paul vs Jesus as far as who is to be listened to. FYI there's no contradiction between Jesus and Paul and Paul mate no contradiction against himself in any of the Epistles he wrote. I'm pretty sure that if you believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God then it shouldn't make any difference whether Paul admitted to putting in his own two cents or not, it's still inspired.

 

[resurrection33]

Seriously? Why the rhetorical question?

No, I think it's an honest question. There are people telling us we aren't under the law and so repentance isn't necessary.

 

[resurrection33]

My point was if you love your neighbor as yourself than the women would obey the loving commandment not to speak in a assembly atmosphere. What affects one affect all .Obedience is a good thing, not a bad thing.

Paul said women can't speak in church, but he didn't have the authority to issue commandments. Only God and Jesus can do that.

 

[resurrection33]

What If you try to keep the ten commandments and you can't,does that mean that you love GOD?

I disagree with your premise. We can all keep the Ten Commandments.

 

[resurrection33]

Just like another member said,repent means to turn,not to say I'm sorry.

Repent means to turn from your sin - stop sinning.

 

[StanJ]

Paul said women can't speak in church, but he didn't have the authority to issue commandments. Only God and Jesus can do that.

Actually that is inaccurate on both counts . Paul never said women can't speak in church but he did have the authority to issue instructions and teachings to the church.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Again this topic is not about women's pastors and what Paul taught on that subject, it is about Paul vs Jesus as far as who is to be listened to. FYI there's no contradiction between Jesus and Paul and Paul mate no contradiction against himself in any of the Epistles he wrote. I'm pretty sure that if you believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God then it shouldn't make any difference whether Paul admitted to putting in his own two cents or not, it's still inspired.

And once again, I'm not talking about women pastors. I never even mentioned it until you brought it up. I'm talking about men making it a law that women not speak or ask questions in a gathering and about men making it a law that women must wear a scarf or hat in a gathering. If you are going to make what Paul said a commandment from God that women must obey, for instance that they not teach or speak in the gathering or never teach if men are present, then at least be consistent and make them cover their head too.

 

[John146]

Repent means to turn from your sin - stop sinning.

Salvation repentance is not about repenting of sins (plural), but it is about repenting of sin (singular). We find out which sin to repent of to be saved in John 16. The sin is unbelief in Jesus Christ. To be saved, one must turn from the sin of unbelief and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ alone for salvation. A person gets righteousness by trusting Jesus Christ, not repenting of individual sins or any other works. Notice in verse 9, the sin of verse 8 is defined in the below passage.

John 16:7 "Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. 8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 Of sin, because they believe not on me; 10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; 11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged."
Salvation repentance is defined in Acts 20:21. The repentance here could not mean repent of sin because it says "repentance TOWARDS God", which means to turn toward God and believe on Jesus Christ by faith.

Acts 20:21 "Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ."

 

[StanJ]

Repent means to turn from your sin - stop sinning.

Repent means to turn away and Essence do a 180 degree turn then walk in the other direction but the problem is we often do another 180 and go right back of it. Living a sinful lifestyle and sinning are 2 different things.

 

[StanJ]

And once again, I'm not talking about women pastors. I never even mentioned it until you brought it up. I'm talking about men making it a law that women not speak or ask questions in a gathering and about men making it a law that women must wear a scarf or hat in a gathering. If you are going to make what Paul said a commandment from God that women must obey, for instance that they not teach or speak in the gathering or never teach if men are present, then at least be consistent and make them cover their head too.

Actually you are because you keep on bringing up the same scenario and that is and has been discussed thoroughly in the thread on women pastors. It was you who brought up the issue about women pastors not I.

 

[StanJ]

I disagree with your premise. We can all keep the Ten Commandments.

The Ten Commandments are irrelevant under the New Covenant. We no longer live under the letter of the law only under the spirit of the law.

 

[StanJ]

Maybe because he saw a few times where they tried to make his every letter into laws?
I have more respect for women who insist on making it all laws for them to obey than who yoke themselves with only part of it but then feel free to not wear a hat or scarf. If you're going to yoke yourself anew at least try to follow the whole law.

The point is we are not under any law accept the law of love.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Actually that is inaccurate on both counts . Paul never said women can't speak in church but he did have the authority to issue instructions and teachings to the church.

Oh, yes, sorry, he didn't expressly forbade they not speak, just that they keep silent. And not ask any questions. I'm not forbidding you to not speak, I'm saying you must be silent. If you can figure out a way to speak while keeping silent, fine. And a woman must cover her head. If you are making Paul's instruction to a church into the law and commandment of God, be consistent and make them cover their heads.

 

[StanJ]

Oh, yes, sorry, he didn't expressly forbade they not speak, just that they keep silent. And not ask any questions. I'm not forbidding you to not speak, I'm saying you must be silent. If you can figure out a way to speak while keeping silent, fine. And a woman must cover her head. If you are making Paul's instruction to a church into the law and commandment of God, be consistent and make them cover their heads.

I answered all of this in the thread on woman's pastors but you keep on wanting to bring it up here. I guess I'll just have to ignore you.

 

[Embankment]

I disagree with your premise. We can all keep the Ten Commandments.

Never been a person born of man that has ever kept the 10 commandments.

 

[TwoinSand]

Jesus told us to repent (Matt 4:17) and some of us believe we should do that. Others say it is unnecessary to repent and quote Paul to back up their position. So are we supposed to follow Jesus or are we supposed to follow Paul?

Paul is an apostle of Jesus Christ. Acts 9.15; 22.21.
Your question: Are we supposed to follow Jesus or are we supposed to follow Paul?

Follow the latter, and you follow the former. Follow the one and you follow the other.

Matthew 10.40 He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Acts 26.19-20 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision: but shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they SHOULD REPENT and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

Thank you.