Jesus turned water into unfermented wine and not fermented wine.

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Jason0047 said:
The process of new wine (or fresh crushed grape juice juice) takes at least several days to go thru the complete process of fermentation. Fresh grape juice that is just crushed can be called unfermented wine because it has not went thru this entire cycle of fermentation yet whereby alcohol is produced.

How To Make Wine In Just One Week

Yes, true 100% unfermented wine would be Welch's Grape Juice because Dr Welch boiled the juice so as to hault or stop the fermentation process. But it is still not incorrect to say that fresh new juice that has not went thru the entire process of fermentation is unfermented wine because it has not fully fermented yet.

In other words, nobody was going to get drunk off of grape juice that was freshly squeezed from grapes. It takes a few days for it to fully ferment.
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Dude - that's how to make 'wine' using a bottle of grape juice that has been pasteurized. You still do not seem to understanding ancient reality.

If you use freshly squeezed grapes the bulk of the sugars will ferment within a day or two.
Grapes were made in vineyards. No one is going to transport grape juice into cities after it has been squeezed. The juice will be fermenting. Grapes are harvested for a brief period.
 
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Jason0047 said:
Also, Dr Welch was not the inventor of learning how to make and preserve grape juice, either. Many historical documents have reported the making and preservation of grape juice (i.e. unfermented wine).
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WRONG.

Just wrong.
 
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#1,143
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Jason0047 said:
In fact, the origin of the word "wine" has nothing to do with it being exclusively alcoholic. It essentially comes from the root meaning of "vine."
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You are going back to this game?

None of that matters. You are playing the same game.

Ancient world:


Squeeze grapes
Grapes ferment
Wine matures
Wine sent into city for consumption

Squeeze grapes
Boil juice
Boil juice some more
Boil juice some more
Makes a tasty syrup to sweeten wines and put on food
 
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JackH

Banned
#1,144
Jun 5, 2014
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Jason0047 said:
Is Dictionary.com lying, too?
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Dictionary.com? Are you serious?

Wouldn't that be like a KJV-ONLY cultist like yourself using the NIV?

I prefer Oxford myself. You know, one of the two major publishers of your perfect KJV, Cambridge being the other.

Here is the definition of grapes from Oxford:

"Grapes were plentiful in biblical times and were eaten either fresh or dried as raisins or made into jelly, though most were crushed for wine, which, with bread, formed the staple diet of the time. Wine was regarded as a divine gift, but excessive drinking was deplored (Isa. 5: 11–13). Some of Jesus' exhortations are illustrated by reference to grapes (e.g. Luke 6: 44)."

"Wine was regarded as a divine gift" you say? And "excessive drinking was deplored" you say.

Is Oxford, publisher of your perfect KJV, lying?
 
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#1,145
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Jason0047 said:
Alcoholic beverages offer no nutritional value and they dry things out within your body. It can lead to addiction. And can intoxicate you if you are not careful to be on your guard against it. In fact, the over abundance of drinking too much alcohol can lead to health problems. There are no health problems when people eat too much salad or fruit. Alcohol destroys families every several minutes as we speak. Salads and fruits do not destroy familes every several minutes. Think about it.
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There is plenty of nutrition in wine. Wine was a source of vitamin C throughout the year.
Wine also made water safer to drink.
 
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StandingFirmInChrist said:
Amazing that you say there was no non-alcoholic wine, when History reveals many instances of non-alcoholic wines.
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NO IT DOES NOT!!

Offer proof or some making that absurd claim. They had no way of doing such a thing.
 
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StandingFirmInChrist said:
And what was coursing through the veins of the grape in the cluster if there was no such thing as grape juice? Mustard?

The fact is, you squeeze a grape, today or in Bible times, grape juice comes out of it. It is not alcoholic in the least. And grape juice, as the Bible reveals, was called wine.

Isaiah 65:8 Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all.
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It has been made clear throughout this topic that when you squeeze grapes, you produce grape juice which lasts for a few hours or a few days until it becomes mostly or completely fermented.

Remember that grapes are harvested at one point of the year. They were then squeezed and put into jars. Within a day or two they were fermented
 
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StandingFirmInChrist said:
Ever hear of Libraries? They have sections called "Ancient History" Try going to one and researching for a change. You will find writings by historical figures such as Cato, Columella, Pliny the Elder, et. al.. I have. In those writings, written long before Welch was even born... centuries before, in fact,... are recorded methods of preserving oinos in its unfermented state.

My research began long before google search was even implemented by computer geeks.
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You are throwing out names but no actual written accounts.
 
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JackH said:
Okay, from all these ancient writings you have read, tell me what Pliny the Elder had to say that is relevant to this discussion.
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He won't do it. He'll ignore this and pick it up again in a few dozens posts when he thinks we have forgotten. I'd suggest demanding he show proof or stop posting in this topic.

This topic has been nothing but silly games where people try to argue grape juice existed before pasteurization.
 
StandingFirmInChrist

StandingFirmInChrist

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Aug 28, 2013
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JackH said:
Okay, from all these ancient writings you have read, tell me what Pliny the Elder had to say that is relevant to this discussion.
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Pliny recorded that [FONT=&quot]placing the containers [/FONT][FONT=&quot]with the pure juice in very cold water, made it impossible for fer*[/FONT][FONT=&quot]mentation to occur. The temperature obviously being below 45 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]degrees made fermentation inoperative. [/FONT]
 
KJV1611

KJV1611

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Nov 23, 2013
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It all boils down to this. People who have a standard, the inerrant KJV word of God, believe God when he says new wine is found in the cluster. Case closed for us, wine can mean either fermented or unfermented grape juice.

For some reason the people that don't have an inerrant standard wont believe this... why I don't know. No one has produced a Greek definition of onions or whatever it's called that defines it as alcoholic. Even though the inerrant word of God clearly tells us that new wine is non-alcoholic, you still wont believe it. What's your reasoning, why do you reject the words of the inerrant word of God?
 
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StandingFirmInChrist said:
Pliny recorded that placing the containers with the pure juice in very cold water, made it impossible for fer*mentation to occur. The temperature obviously being below 45 degrees made fermentation inoperative.
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Document name?
 
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Also - that would still ferment.
Also - 45F degree water is not available year round. In fact, that'd be impossible for much of that area.
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#1,154
#1,154
StandingFirmInChrist said:
Pliny recorded that placing the containers with the pure juice in very cold water, made it impossible for fer*mentation to occur. The temperature obviously being below 45 degrees made fermentation inoperative.
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New studies have proven that to be wrong. Cold temperatures only slow down the fermentation process, it does not stop it completely.
 
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JackH

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Jun 5, 2014
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KJV1611 said:
It all boils down to this. People who have a standard, the inerrant KJV word of God, believe
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We get it.

The Hebrew and Greek, the languages in which the authors of the Bible wrote down what God communicated to them, matter little to you.

You are more into idol worship (the KJV) than rightly dividing the word of truth (2 Tim. 2:15).

We know Jason0047 is also a KJV-ONLY cultist, because he said so.

What about you, StandingFirmInChrist? I mean, you keep agreeing with or "liking" whatever those two say, no matter how nonsensical.
 
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Mac4Yuma

Mac4Yuma

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Aug 13, 2014
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Wine is wine and grape juice is grape juice.

I do have a question How do you know if every reader is a Christian?

You said "And may God bless you all" do not misunderstand but this is an open to all forum and God does say to reason together with like minded others. There can be all kinds of people here who are not like minded they have different doctrines and Christians are to work with like minded and to be such they have to have the same doctrine.

The Bible shows that there is only one Christian teaching and only one Church of God and only one name for that Church so that is why I asked the question plus you seemed very sincere in what you are doing.

Mac.
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

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Jul 22, 2014
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#1,159
Last said:
Dude - that's how to make 'wine' using a bottle of grape juice that has been pasteurized. You still do not seem to understanding ancient reality.

If you use freshly squeezed grapes the bulk of the sugars will ferment within a day or two.
Grapes were made in vineyards. No one is going to transport grape juice into cities after it has been squeezed. The juice will be fermenting. Grapes are harvested for a brief period.
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No. About 3 to 7 days is what the article said.
 
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