Jesus turned water into unfermented wine and not fermented wine.

[Jason0047]

Wrong.

I thought we established that fermentation can occur even in the vineyard.

How do bees become intoxicated?

Bees are not humans. Nobody is going to get intoxicated by eating undestroyed grapes in a vineyard.

Grapes, still in the cluster, can ferment due to bees poking holes in the grapes or the grape skins bursting due to being over ripe.

And quite inventing new words like interfer. We already have enough words you do not understand, like ferment.

Then we must (not wine must) have a new crisis on our hands in grape vineyards then, my friend. For if what you say is true then all grape populations in vineyards cannot be harvested properly because all the bees are interferring with man's production of creating wine.

Creating wine.

Think about that.

Man's production.

Man crushes the grapes.

Man creates wine.

 

[Jason0047]

Wine doesn't grow on trees.

 

[Jason0047]

Well, if you will notice from this verse that it does indicate that some did drink water exclusively, which has often been, illogically, used to say that they could not drink only water. This verse is advice to drink some wine, which, by the way, means that wine is not evil in and of itself, as many posters have tried to tell you.

I don't know if I have told you this, but I don't like the taste of wine or beer. I have drank on occasion and have only been drunk once - and several people who enjoy getting drunk informed me that I was not drunk, but "buzzed." I did not get any joy from the incident and have no desire to become that intoxicated again.

I do agree that we should be aware of the struggles that those around us might have. But having an alcoholic drink is not wrong. However, I would not drink around someone who has/had a drinking problem. I also think that it would be okay/good to use wine for communion - EXCEPT for the potential problem it might cause for those that are or have struggled with alcoholism.

I said numerous times that the New Testament saint has a liberty in Christ to drink soberly and so as not to make their brother to stumble. Christians can also eat unclean animals, too. However, I believe such liberties did not exist before the cross (See Daniel 1:8). In fact, there are warnings to the OT saint (Not the NT saint) about the alcoholic beverage itself. This is just not in reference to intoxicatiion but to the wine that intoxicates; And not the wine that is of the pure blood of the grape (or freshly squeezed juice from the cluster of the grape).

 

[JackH]

You can take the blue pill and believe whatever you want to believe, but it wouldn't be true, though. Again, this is an off topic discussion. Also, if you don't stop with the slander I willl contact the Moderator of this website.

You do that, contact the Moderator of this website.

Again, you made a post on this thread where you copy and pasted from an article and linked to that article written by a Seventh-day Adventist who in that article quoted and used as a source to support his nonsense one Ellen G. White.

I questioned the credibility of your source.

Apparently you do not understand the word slander, like you do not understand many other words like the Hebrew word yayin and the Greek word oinos.

 

[Agricola]

will this roundabout go on until we reach 100 pages I wonder.

 

[JackH]

Bees are not humans. Nobody is going to get intoxicated by eating undestroyed grapes in a vineyard.

Then we must (not wine must) have a new crisis on our hands in grape vineyards then, my friend. For if what you say is true then all grape populations in vineyards cannot be harvested properly because all the bees are interferring with man's production of creating wine.

Bees are not humans? Geico: "Everybody knows that."

Is "undestroyed" a word? Reminds me of your "unfermented wine."

When somebody posted this business about bees become intoxicated a while back on this thread, I was a bit skeptical myself.

So I did some research.

Sure enough, I found some forums where vineyard owners were complaining about all the damage done by bees poking holes in the grapes and getting drunk.

I'm sure you and Google can find this information if you really try.

I mean, you have no problem finding what Ellen G. White had to say and copying and pasting it into your posts.

 

[Jason0047]

Most grapes in a vineyard are not destroyed by bees. Hence, why you were skeptical because it is not a problem that is taking over vineyards, my friend. Grapes need to be crushed by men in order for men to make wine. Men do not wait around hoping the bees will create wine for them. Maybe honey. But not wine.

 

[JackH]

KJV
Numbers 6:3
He shall separate himself from wine and strong drink, and shall drink no vinegar of wine, or vinegar of strong drink, neither shall he drink any liquor of grapes, nor eat moist grapes, or dried.

Numbers 6:4
All the days of his separation he shall not eat anything that is produced by the grape vine, from the seeds even to the skin.


NASB
Numbers 6:3
he shall abstain from wine and strong drink; he shall drink no vinegar, whether made from wine or strong drink, nor shall he drink any grape juice nor eat fresh or dried grapes.

Numbers 6:4
All the days of his separation he shall not eat anything that is produced by the grape vine, from the seeds even to the skin.

Hey Jason 0047:

You keep whining about me not talking about Scripture.

Do you say that Numbers 6:3 is referring to alcoholic beverages?

 

[StandingFirmInChrist]

If bees damage grapes, i highly doubt wineries will use them since they are damaged.

new York wineries have been given permission to purchase grapes out of state due to last years freezing weather. Napa Valley inspected their vineyards for damage after their recent earthquake.

according to this wikipedia article, damaged grapes are undesireable for wines... Harvest (wine) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Jason0047]

Hey Jason 0047:

You keep whining about me not talking about Scripture.

Do you say that Numbers 6:3 is referring to alcoholic beverages?

As I said before, the Bible speaks of both new wine or freshly squeezed grape juice or the pure blood of the grape and the wine of violence.

Numbers 6 is talking about the Nazarite vow. It is not implying that intoxicating wine is acceptable to others. The Bible is merely exhaustive on the point that a Nazarite can't have anything with grapes in it. It's the same thing in Leviticus 18 on the giving of the details of not sleeping with one's next of kin.

 

[JackH]

KJV
Numbers 6:3
He shall separate himself from wine and strong drink, and shall drink no vinegar of wine, or vinegar of strong drink, neither shall he drink any liquor of grapes, nor eat moist grapes, or dried.

Numbers 6:4
All the days of his separation he shall not eat anything that is produced by the grape vine, from the seeds even to the skin.


NASB
Numbers 6:3
he shall abstain from wine and strong drink; he shall drink no vinegar, whether made from wine or strong drink, nor shall he drink any grape juice nor eat fresh or dried grapes.

Numbers 6:4
All the days of his separation he shall not eat anything that is produced by the grape vine, from the seeds even to the skin.

Quit begging the question, Jason0047.

Do the words wine (yayin) and strong drink (shekar) refer to alcoholic beverages in those verses?

Yes or no?