Job, was he a] blameless or b] vile?

[P1LGR1M]

Four verses to contemplate:

Job 1:8 Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil.”

Job 31:6 Let God weigh me in honest scales and He will know that I am blameless

Job 40:4 Behold, I am vile; what shall I answer thee? I will lay mine hand upon my mouth....42:6 Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.

This is a great example of the distinction between a statement in Scripture having a temporal perspective and having an eternal perspective.

Both speak of a temporal quality, meaning God and Job, with both being different but both entirely correct.

To find eternal blamelessness we have to look to Christ.


God bless.

 

[oldhermit]

Here's the context:

Job 32:1 Then these three men ceased answering Job, because he was righteous in his own eyes.

Righteous in your own eyes is self-righteousness. Saul, before conversion, said that has far as his law performance went he was blameless. See Phil :36. That again is self-righteousness.

2 But the anger of Elihu ... burned; against Job his anger burned because he (Job) justified himself before God.

How did Job justify himself before God? "let God weigh me in honest scales and he will know that I am blameless" (Job 31:6)

3 And his anger burned against his three friends because they had found no answer, and yet had condemned Job.

So Elihu's anger was against both Job and Job's three friends.

Look, you clearly do not understand this book at all and I am growing weary of this nonsense. Abraham was just in his defense of himself. He WAS righteous because as he demonstrates, he had never been guilty of the things of which his companions accused him. The fact that Elihu's anger burned against Job does make Elihu right and it most certainly does not make Job guilty. You need to stop all of this foolishness. God never accused Job but you seem intent on doing so. You are doing precisely what Job's companions did and God became angry with them for doing this. You need to forget everything you think you know about this book and read it again. This will be my last response to you on this. I will waste no more time with you.

 

[P1LGR1M]

You might want to edit that before the five minutes are up (Job instead of Abraham).


God bless.

 

[oldhermit]

You might want to edit that before the five minutes are up (Job instead of Abraham).


God bless.

LOL. Saw it too late but thanks for the heads up. Surely he will know who I am talking about.

 

[ember]

Speaking of dividing and conquering...that's what you are doing. You don't want to look at the context, you want to avoid it because it goes against your preconceived ideas. Therefore you change the subject and attack me. Let's keep to the context and avoid all this drama....

whatever you do, don't try to swim to shore because the water around your island is filled with sharks...of your own making

you know, your attitude is typical of self-taught unteachable people who dream up silly things and then get angry when folks who study the word and are grounded in the word, reply to your fantasies and rebuke the false teaching

not waiting for your next smart mouth reply

whatever...

saying I or anyone else here is attacking you, is also 100% typical of self-taught unteachable people who...well, you know what I'm going to say

whatever x 2

 

[Roberth]

Look, you clearly do not understand this book at all and I am growing weary of this nonsense.....You need to stop all of this foolishness. .... You need to forget everything you think you know about this book and read it again. .

I follow....You want me to make you the measuring stick of truth instead of the context of the book of Job. No thanks....

This will be my last response to you on this. I will waste no more time with you.

Yes, it is a waste of time because if you are going to ignore the context then nothing else really matters Ignorance is bliss....

Hasta la vista

 

[Roberth]

...you know, your attitude ....people who dream up silly things .... your fantasies ...your next smart mouth reply...whatever...

Like I previously stated; Let's keep to the context and avoid all this drama'

 

[TheAristocat]

Four verses to contemplate:

Job 1:8 Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil.”

Job 31:6 Let God weigh me in honest scales and He will know that I am blameless

Job 40:4 Behold, I am vile; what shall I answer thee? I will lay mine hand upon my mouth....42:6 Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.

I think that he was a much stronger man than I am. But when I read the book of Job I can see his human nature bleed through the text. He was still a fallible human, but I would not judge him for acting the way he did. He behaved in an exemplary manner, given the circumstances.

In terms of Old Testament Law, one might be able to say that his actions were above reproach. But he still behaved in a very human manner by being fickle, overcome with emotion and challenging God to answer his questions.

 

[ember]

I follow....You want me to make you the measuring stick of truth instead of the context of the book of Job. No thanks....



Yes, it is a waste of time because if you are going to ignore the context then nothing else really matters Ignorance is bliss....

Hasta la vista

it's just you

 

[VioletReigns]

Ya know, I'm sitting here wondering what your motive is, Robert. I mean after all, you seem pretty zealous about getting your point across. Your point that Job justified himself before God and that God was angered at him.... so what are you really saying?

What do you make of the prophesy in Isaiah 54:

To me this is like the days of Noah,

when I swore that the waters of Noah would never again cover the earth.

So now I have sworn not to be angry with you,

never to rebuke you again.

Though the mountains be shaken

and the hills be removed,

yet my unfailing love for you will not be shaken

nor my covenant of peace be removed,”

says the Lord, who has compassion on you.

It seems to me you are warning others that God will be angry at anyone who has faith in Christ Jesus that they are righteous because of Him. You are projecting your own image of an angry God onto others. But Jesus said if you see Him, you see the Father. And the only ones Jesus got angry with were self-righteous Pharisees who put heavy burdens of condemnation & fear onto others. I never read in the Word where Jesus ever got angry at people who believed they were holy vessels of honor for Him.

You're angry yourself and justifying it by projecting it on God. Why are you so agitated, Robert?

 

[mill77]

Why is 'Elihu' being looked upon so highly....He admittedly did not generally attain to the wisdom of the three(32:6-7). Secondly he was so proud that he actually presumed to be the mediator between God and man that Job sought(Job 33:5-8). Thirdly, he was essentially arguing the argument of Job's 'three' friends for them(Job 34:1-5), so trying to distinguish him from them is baseless. Fourthly, he lied in saying that Job was nothing but a heathen(34:7-9;17, 36:17). Fifthly, above all the others he showed his pride in wanting to see the total judgment and condemnation of Job("My desire [is that] Job may be tried unto the end because of [his] answers for wicked men" - 34:34-37)..Furthermore, he accused Job of not just being in error, but essentially of being a fool, one with no knowledge(35:13-16). And finally Elihu concludes with his belief, beyond all his so-called wisdom, that God, at least in the way that Job implied, could never be known(Job 36:26;37:23-24). Now while this may characterize some of the fundamentals of Elihu's character, unless you understand the argument of Job(Job 6:8,9:32-35,13:3;19;23,14:14,16:21,19:6-7;25-27,31:35-37), and his three friends' three rebuttals, be sure to have difficulty interpreting what Elihu was actually stressing(i.e. the law - Job 34:23,35:1-3,36:20-25).

 

[Cee]

I agree with Robert.

Job was self-righteous. He said several times there is no fault with me as Robert pointed out. But all I see is people attacking him and saying oh you don't understand because you don't understand the Hebrew etc. That's a weird response.

Here's a few things to consider.

1. God was angry with Job's friends, but not Elihu. We know this because Job is called to pray for them.
2. Job repented in dust and ashes. Saying I am merely flesh, you know far more than I do. (This is the opposite of self-righteousness).
3. After Job repented God blessed him with double. Showing there was a purpose.
4. What is the context of Scripture? Christ alone is righteous.
5. Paul said ALL have fallen short of God. Including Job.
6. Blamelessness is also attributed to Noah, this is taken from a sacrificial viewpoint or a blood line viewpoint depending on what interpretation bias you believe about the lineage of Christ.
7. God's entire argument with starts out: "now prepare yourself like a man and answer Me" is that I do things that are far beyond your understanding Job. Look at everything around you that you had no part in or did you? Are you going to give Me counsel? This response shows that God is showing Job what is wrong with his thinking. After repenting Job is blessed with double.

Robert, anytime someone attacks you, you don't need to attack back.

Let Holy Spirit defend you.

C.

 

[Cee]

God is the one who calls him righteous. You will need to take it up with the Lord.

God said he was blameless not righteous. Paul also called himself blameless before the law, but
realized (through God blinding him and speaking to him) he needed to repent and God showed him how to be righteous in Christ.

The only righteousness there is.

C.

 

[oldhermit]

God said he was blameless not righteous. Paul also called himself blameless before the law, but
realized (through God blinding him and speaking to him) he needed to repent and God showed him how to be righteous in Christ.

The only righteousness there is.

C.

Well, I somewhat conceded your point here. The word for blameless here actually means one who is upright. This refers to the integrity of the man and this must be measured against a revealed standard of conduct. But, I do see your point.

 

[Cee]

Personally, I think righteousness deals with both sins that we commit and sins that we omit. The other side of the equation is okay we don't sin, but do we love one another? Righteousness IMO takes care of things we shouldn't and things we SHOULD be doing (blameless doesn't deal with this). This is the complete remedy for the knowledge of GOOD and evil. Both leading to shame that Jesus took for us on the cross that we could come out of hiding and before the Father in Him. (Genesis parallel)

Props to you for admitting a different point of view when shown. I don't see that often. Bless you.

C.

Well, I somewhat conceded your point here. The word for blameless here actually means one who is upright. This refers to the integrity of the man and this must be measured against a revealed standard of conduct. But, I do see your point.

 

[oldhermit]

I agree with Robert.

Job was self-righteous. He said several times there is no fault with me as Robert pointed out. But all I see is people attacking him and saying oh you don't understand because you don't understand the Hebrew etc. That's a weird response.

Here's a few things to consider.

1. God was angry with Job's friends, but not Elihu. We know this because Job is called to pray for them.
2. Job repented in dust and ashes. Saying I am merely flesh, you know far more than I do. (This is the opposite of self-righteousness).
3. After Job repented God blessed him with double. Showing there was a purpose.
4. What is the context of Scripture? Christ alone is righteous.
5. Paul said ALL have fallen short of God. Including Job.
6. Blamelessness is also attributed to Noah, this is taken from a sacrificial viewpoint or a blood line viewpoint depending on what interpretation bias you believe about the lineage of Christ.
7. God's entire argument with starts out: "now prepare yourself like a man and answer Me" is that I do things that are far beyond your understanding Job. Look at everything around you that you had no part in or did you? Are you going to give Me counsel? This response shows that God is showing Job what is wrong with his thinking. After repenting Job is blessed with double.

Robert, anytime someone attacks you, you don't need to attack back.

Let Holy Spirit defend you.

C.

The issue of the self-righteousness of Job must be considered against the accusations that had been directed toward him by his companions. Job's defense was that he was innocent of all their charges. He had done none of the evils of which he had been accused by his friends. In this defense he was indeed righteous. In 42:6 he repented not because of his righteous defense against his companions but because he dared to question God concerning all of the evil that had been brought upon him.

 

[Magenta]

I saw a request for cookies...

 

[oldhermit]

Personally, I think righteousness deals with both sins that we commit and sins that we omit. The other side of the equation is okay we don't sin, but do we love one another? Righteousness IMO takes care of things we shouldn't and things we SHOULD be doing (blameless doesn't deal with this). This is the complete remedy for the knowledge of GOOD and evil. Both leading to shame that Jesus took for us on the cross that we could come out of hiding and before the Father in Him. (Genesis parallel)

Props to you for admitting a different point of view when shown. I don't see that often. Bless you.

C.

Very true. But Job was not claiming to be free of sin, only innocent of the things of which he had been falsely accused.

 

[VioletReigns]

God said he was blameless not righteous. Paul also called himself blameless before the law, but realized (through God blinding him and speaking to him) he needed to repent and God showed him how to be righteous in Christ.

The only righteousness there is.

C.

Righteousness...........

 

[oldhermit]

Righteousness...........

I understand what he means regarding the idea of righteousness. This issue however in Job is not one of personal sinlessness but one of innocence as it related to accusations.