Job, was he a] blameless or b] vile?
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I don't read Job (or any part of the Bible for that matter) in my own understanding. God has to give us spiritual understanding about His Word because our flesh can't receive anything from Him. Logic ain't got nuttin' to do with the spirit.
I don't try to decipher in my logical mind the circumstances surrounding Job's test. For one thing, Job & God were having an actual tête-à-tête, an active back & forth, lively discussion. When was the last time you and God had a lively dialogue like that?
Secondly, God used Leviathan & Behemoth in His analogies to Job to explain how vast and mighty and unconquerable He really is. Question: Do you even know what a Leviathan and a Behemoth are???
Also, if God cast the devil & 1/3 of the angels out of heaven, how could the devil go back into heaven of his own accord and appear before God to accuse Job?
And another thing, if God said Job "was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil," how can we even entertain questioning the validity of God's word???
How in heavens do we think we're wise enough in ourselves to make logical sense out of Job's plight???
And when Jesus tells us to no longer acknowledge each other according to the flesh but that we are to know one another in the spirit, what word don't we understand???
All these foolish questions and silly debates about who's vile and who ain't does nothing except cause confusion and takes people's eyes off the truth that Jesus Christ has made us new creations and is forming us more and more into His likeness from glory to glory.
Keep your minds on things that are above, not on things that are on the earth.
What word of that don't we understand???
I don't try to decipher in my logical mind the circumstances surrounding Job's test. For one thing, Job & God were having an actual tête-à-tête, an active back & forth, lively discussion. When was the last time you and God had a lively dialogue like that?
Secondly, God used Leviathan & Behemoth in His analogies to Job to explain how vast and mighty and unconquerable He really is. Question: Do you even know what a Leviathan and a Behemoth are???
Also, if God cast the devil & 1/3 of the angels out of heaven, how could the devil go back into heaven of his own accord and appear before God to accuse Job?
And another thing, if God said Job "was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil," how can we even entertain questioning the validity of God's word???
How in heavens do we think we're wise enough in ourselves to make logical sense out of Job's plight???
And when Jesus tells us to no longer acknowledge each other according to the flesh but that we are to know one another in the spirit, what word don't we understand???
All these foolish questions and silly debates about who's vile and who ain't does nothing except cause confusion and takes people's eyes off the truth that Jesus Christ has made us new creations and is forming us more and more into His likeness from glory to glory.
Keep your minds on things that are above, not on things that are on the earth.
What word of that don't we understand???
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M
> his three friends' three rebuttals
Though technically Zophar had two, the other two had three each
Job(ch.3),Eliphaz(ch.4-5), Job(ch.6-7), Bildad(ch.8), Job(ch.9-10), Zophar(ch.11), Job(ch.12-14), Eliphaz(ch.15),Job(ch.16-17),Bildad(ch.18),Job(ch.19),Zophar(ch.20),Job(ch.21),Eliphaz(ch.22),Job(ch.23-24),Bildad(ch.25), Job(ch.26-31),Elihu(ch.32-37)
Though technically Zophar had two, the other two had three each
Job(ch.3),Eliphaz(ch.4-5), Job(ch.6-7), Bildad(ch.8), Job(ch.9-10), Zophar(ch.11), Job(ch.12-14), Eliphaz(ch.15),Job(ch.16-17),Bildad(ch.18),Job(ch.19),Zophar(ch.20),Job(ch.21),Eliphaz(ch.22),Job(ch.23-24),Bildad(ch.25), Job(ch.26-31),Elihu(ch.32-37)
Yes, absolutely. Let's review Job's claims:
Therefore when Job claimed to be blameless, he meant "without sin".
As I stated previously, anyone who claims to be without sin is self-deceived. That's what 1 John 1:8 states.
Saul claimed to be blameless before God's law prior to his conversion. See Phil 3:6. But after conversion he viewed his righteousness as mere dung. See Phil 3:8 KJV
If Job was without sin and therefore blameless, why did he repent? Even more so, why did Job call himself "vile" where before he viewed himself to be "without sin"?
Clearly Job had a problem and that problem was that he was self-righteous.
(Elihu to Job) Do you think it is just when you say, "I am righteous before God"? (HCS Job 35:1)
Within the context of Job chapter 35, Elihu says:
"So Job opens his mouth with empty talk; without knowledge he multiplies words." (Job 35:16)
Now keep the sentences in blue in your mind.
The question is does God agree with what Elihu stated? Remember Elihu claims to speak in God's behalf (see Job 36:1).
Job 38:1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the storm. He said: 2 "Who is this that darkens my counsel with words without knowledge?"
This is the first time God speaks directly to Job. So when did God counsel Job?
Answer: Through Elihu!
God is in agreement with Elihu! Both of them tell Job that his claims to righteousness are words spoken without knowledge. What is Job's reply?
"Then Job answered the Lord and said: "Behold, I am vile; What shall I answer You? I lay my hand over my mouth.
What a difference we see in Job now. Before this Job claimed to be righteous before God. He claimed to be without sin. He claimed to be blameless. But now we see a changed man. We see a humble Job who realizes that his righteousness was really self-righteousness and he realized that in comparison to God's righteousness he was actually "vile".
Not only did Job have a change of heart but he also repented of his self-righteousness:
Job 42:1 Then Job answered the Lord and said: .... 3 You asked, 'Who is this who hides counsel without knowledge?'Therefore I have uttered what I did not understand, Things too wonderful for me, which I did not know.... 6 Therefore I abhor myself, And repent in dust and ashes.
Within the context of Job chapter 35, Elihu says:
"So Job opens his mouth with empty talk; without knowledge he multiplies words." (Job 35:16)
Now keep the sentences in blue in your mind.
The question is does God agree with what Elihu stated? Remember Elihu claims to speak in God's behalf (see Job 36:1).
Job 38:1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the storm. He said: 2 "Who is this that darkens my counsel with words without knowledge?"
This is the first time God speaks directly to Job. So when did God counsel Job?
Answer: Through Elihu!
God is in agreement with Elihu! Both of them tell Job that his claims to righteousness are words spoken without knowledge. What is Job's reply?
"Then Job answered the Lord and said: "Behold, I am vile; What shall I answer You? I lay my hand over my mouth.
What a difference we see in Job now. Before this Job claimed to be righteous before God. He claimed to be without sin. He claimed to be blameless. But now we see a changed man. We see a humble Job who realizes that his righteousness was really self-righteousness and he realized that in comparison to God's righteousness he was actually "vile".
Not only did Job have a change of heart but he also repented of his self-righteousness:
Job 42:1 Then Job answered the Lord and said: .... 3 You asked, 'Who is this who hides counsel without knowledge?'Therefore I have uttered what I did not understand, Things too wonderful for me, which I did not know.... 6 Therefore I abhor myself, And repent in dust and ashes.
A
Joel was blameless but not sinless because he repented of his sins and God washed him clean.
He maintained his intergerity until he was accused wrongly by his friends.then he began to doubt God.His sin or vileness was not self righteousness but doubting and questioning why God allowed bad things to happen. he forgot how it was only God's grace that allowed him to stand blameless and fell into the trap of thinking his works (or lack of them as his accusers claimed) were worth anything.
I think Job teaches us to pray and not be like his friends and foolishly repeat the words of false spirits accusing someone of sin when they suffer because we can then become the stumbling block for God's children.
Elihu spoke of God's greatness and reminded Job of how grace saved him. Sometimes we need to be that person to stop others from verbally abusing those who are down, and pointing to God's power and greatness. Inspiring trust in His plan and wisdom.
He maintained his intergerity until he was accused wrongly by his friends.then he began to doubt God.His sin or vileness was not self righteousness but doubting and questioning why God allowed bad things to happen. he forgot how it was only God's grace that allowed him to stand blameless and fell into the trap of thinking his works (or lack of them as his accusers claimed) were worth anything.
I think Job teaches us to pray and not be like his friends and foolishly repeat the words of false spirits accusing someone of sin when they suffer because we can then become the stumbling block for God's children.
Elihu spoke of God's greatness and reminded Job of how grace saved him. Sometimes we need to be that person to stop others from verbally abusing those who are down, and pointing to God's power and greatness. Inspiring trust in His plan and wisdom.
No, it was self-righteousness.
Would you stand before God and His law and demand that He recognize your righteousness? If so, you are a legalist. Legalists are self-righteous believers who place their confidence, not in Christ Jesus, but in their flesh.
So yes, Job was self-righteous, but the thing is Job changed. He repented and God accepted Him.
Would you stand before God and His law and demand that He recognize your righteousness? If so, you are a legalist. Legalists are self-righteous believers who place their confidence, not in Christ Jesus, but in their flesh.
So yes, Job was self-righteous, but the thing is Job changed. He repented and God accepted Him.
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