John 3:16-18 is not about God's universal love (there is no such thing).

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J

John146

Senior Member
#221
Jan 13, 2016
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#221
posthuman said:
do you think there was ever a time God did not know who is His sheep and who is not His sheep? at all times, He has known all things, before all things, before all time. before the world was ever founded, He knew this one would believe, and this one would not believe, but betray. and He created them, and it is good. His foreknowledge isn't His 'learning' -- it is His omniscience. there is no time He is ever ignorant of any thing; nothing is or has ever been hidden from Him, nor can be. by Him all things have their being.
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When does God know you? After ye are known of God...

Galatians 4
8 Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#222
Jul 31, 2013
37,801
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#222
John146 said:
Did not Jesus learn what it was like to be human? Had God ever experience thirst before? Had God ever experienced pain in the flesh? Had God ever been punched in the face? Hebrews says God learned.

And don’t bring up some fancy theological term to explain away the clear reading of the scripture. You may not, but I know others may try.
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Hebrews 5:8 is astounding!! it should drop us all to the floor!

do you think it means the Father isn't omniscient? that God is naive? that's amazing too!
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#223
Jul 31, 2013
37,801
13,551
113
#223
John146 said:
When does God know you? After ye are known of God...

Galatians 4
8 Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
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it must have been a pleasant surprise for God to meet you :D
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#224
Jan 13, 2016
17,111
3,687
113
#224
posthuman said:
Hebrews 5:8 is astounding!! it should drop us all to the floor!

do you think it means the Father isn't omniscient? that God is naive? that's amazing too!
Click to expand...
God naive? Nonsense, but He’s never experienced life in a human body until Jesus became flesh.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#225
Jan 13, 2016
17,111
3,687
113
#225
posthuman said:
it must have been a pleasant surprise for God to meet you :D
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Could you explain the Galatians passage? Thanks.

Did God know you before salvation? Use Scripture not emotional thoughts of who God must be.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#226
Jan 13, 2016
17,111
3,687
113
#226
posthuman said:
Hebrews 5:8 is astounding!! it should drop us all to the floor!

do you think it means the Father isn't omniscient? that God is naive? that's amazing too!
Click to expand...
God is perfect in knowledge. Allow Scripture to define what this means not man made definitions. Please don’t use Isaiah 46:10 either. People take this way out of context.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#227
Jul 31, 2013
37,801
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#227
John146 said:
God naive? Nonsense, but He’s never experienced life in a human body until Jesus became flesh.
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you don't like naive - you okay with ignorant, oblivious, uneducated, simple . . ? needing to be instructed?
i'll check some other thesauruses for 'not omniscient' and 'having no idea who if anyone He's looking for while He leaves the 99' ;)
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#228
Jan 13, 2016
17,111
3,687
113
#228
posthuman said:
you don't like naive - you okay with ignorant, oblivious, uneducated, simple . . ? needing to be instructed?
i'll check some other thesauruses for 'not omniscient' and 'having no idea who if anyone He's looking for while He leaves the 99' ;)
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God is never taken by surprise at our decisions for He knows us better than we know ourselves. Plus, He knows exactly what to do with whatever choice we make. If you do this, then I’ll do this...the OT is full of these statements.
 
fredoheaven

fredoheaven

Senior Member
#229
Nov 17, 2015
4,110
960
113
#229
posthuman said:
do you think there was ever a time God did not know who is His sheep and who is not His sheep? at all times, He has known all things, before all things, before all time. before the world was ever founded, He knew this one would believe, and this one would not believe, but betray. and He created them, and it is good. His foreknowledge isn't His 'learning' -- it is His omniscience. there is no time He is ever ignorant of any thing; nothing is or has ever been hidden from Him, nor can be. by Him all things have their being.
Click to expand...
Here's a cut and paste... for brevity foreknowledge is different from predestination.

Foreknowledge is an attribute of God's omniscience. Primarily, foreknowledge had to do with persons and places, and predestination is centered in God's purposes. Foreknowledge contains ONE element, that is, knowing what is going to happen before it takes place. In relation to people and places, it does not contain the element of bringing it to pass or making it happen. Predestination, on the other hand, is different from foreknowledge in that it contains TWO elements: One is the prediction (His omniscience) and the other is the act of God (His omnipotence) to bring it to pass. The confusion begins when one inserts meanings into a word which it does not contain.
 
fredoheaven

fredoheaven

Senior Member
#230
Nov 17, 2015
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#230
posthuman said:
why does He choose to reveal Himself to some and choose to hide Himself from others?

He said, ​
unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; ​
that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand. ​
(Luke 8:10) ​
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God revealed himself to Moses and not to all, that is fine but this is not something to do with salvation.
 
fredoheaven

fredoheaven

Senior Member
#231
Nov 17, 2015
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#231
posthuman said:
IOW you say, if that is the case it is foolish that He preach?

it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe​
(1 Corinthians 1:21) ​
​
He doesn't waste

Gather up the fragments that remain, that nothing be lost! ​
(John 6:12)​
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Good verse to those who respond to the gospel truth! They that believe will be save and to those that reject the truth, those who believe not even when they told so was to them the preaching is foolishness!
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#232
Jul 31, 2013
37,801
13,551
113
#232
John146 said:
God is never taken by surprise at our decisions for He knows us better than we know ourselves. Plus, He knows exactly what to do with whatever choice we make. If you do this, then I’ll do this...the OT is full of these statements.
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hmm then He must have known us for quite some time. before the womb, in fact, if your statement here applies as early as our very first choices. the OT has several examples of Him speaking about people who had not yet been born, or in cases even conceived.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#234
Jul 31, 2013
37,801
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#234
John146 said:
Could you explain the Galatians passage? Thanks.
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no, i probably couldn't.

but it's intimately related to this:

Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after,
if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
(Philippians 3:12)
​
and this:

For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face:
now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.​
(1 Corinthians 3:12) ​
​
as well as 1 Corinthians 2:16 & 8:3, Psalm 91:14 & Romans 8:29. also it contains marriage-language, which introduces about 200 more passages, and it certainly doesn't say omniscient God was ignorant of you before you revealed yourself to Him.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#235
Jul 31, 2013
37,801
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#235
John146 said:
Scripture please? Psalm 139 does not say this, btw. Plus, exceptions never make the rule.
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you said He knows us better than we know ourselves and that He's "never taken by surprise" by our decisions -- so when was your first decision? He knew you before that. did you kick, from within your mother's belly? it didn't surprise Him.

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground,
and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
(Genesis 2:7)​
​
Indeed, the very hairs of your head are all numbered.
(Luke 12:7)
​
is your god not also your Creator?
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#236
Jan 13, 2016
17,111
3,687
113
#236
posthuman said:
you said He knows us better than we know ourselves and that He's "never taken by surprise" by our decisions -- so when was your first decision? He knew you before that. did you kick, from within your mother's belly? it didn't surprise Him.

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, ​
and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. ​
(Genesis 2:7)​
​
Indeed, the very hairs of your head are all numbered.​
(Luke 12:7)​
​
is your god not also your Creator?
Click to expand...
Genesis 2:7 is Adam, and the number of hairs on one’s head is knowledge to be known by God.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#237
Jan 13, 2016
17,111
3,687
113
#237
posthuman said:
you said He knows us better than we know ourselves and that He's "never taken by surprise" by our decisions -- so when was your first decision? He knew you before that. did you kick, from within your mother's belly? it didn't surprise Him.

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, ​
and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. ​
(Genesis 2:7)​
​
Indeed, the very hairs of your head are all numbered.​
(Luke 12:7)​
​
is your god not also your Creator?
Click to expand...
God knew Lazarus, but did not know the rich man in hell. His name had been blotted out of the book of life. It’s as if he never existed in God’s eyes.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#238
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#238
The word world is Kosmos and means whole order of things......end of thread and story!
 
Flint321

Flint321

Banned
#239
Apr 12, 2019
243
105
43
#239
Exactly, World is World, not just Israel, which.... does not cancel out or diminishing divine election, duuurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

Or does it?

If so why?
 
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