John 3:16-18 is not about God's universal love (there is no such thing).

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Lightskin

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2019
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If Jesus dies for the sins of the "whole world" as Arminians understand it, then did his death actually pay the price for the sins of all people? Did he bear those sins on the cross and atone for them? If so, why do some go to hell? They would be repaying a price that has already been paid.

The Bible teaches that Jesus Christ bore the sins of the redeemed in his body on the cross:
1 Peter 2:24
"He himself bore our sins" in his body on the cross, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; "by his wounds you have been healed."

So how do unbelievers end up in hell?
Denying that Jesus Christ is the Messiah, the Son of God, is blasphemy because you’re calling God a liar. Blasphemy is unforgivable.
 

fredoheaven

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Nov 17, 2015
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Being regenerated, being born again, given the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. All three of these are included when God takes the heart of stone out of the natural man and replaces it with a fleshy heart, Eze 36:26. Eph 2 explains how this procedure is accomplished, while the natural man is still dead, spiritually, and unable to respond to the things of the Spirit, Eph 2:5.
Ezekiel speaks of the Israelite people and the passage has nothing to do with the Gentile (your out of context again and again). I do think, you need to rightly divide the word my friend. Use context to understand what it says. Because you don't want to quote the entire passage in context you are confused my friend as I see it. Your Ephesians 2:5 will point you to Eph. 2:8 that by grace takes faith to be saved. Taking one text without consideration to the other text will con you.

Ezekiel 36 King James Version (KJV)
36 Also, thou son of man, prophesy unto the mountains of Israel, and say, Ye mountains of Israel, hear the word of the Lord:

2 Thus saith the Lord God; Because the enemy hath said against you, Aha, even the ancient high places are ours in possession:

3 Therefore prophesy and say, Thus saith the Lord God; Because they have made you desolate, and swallowed you up on every side, that ye might be a possession unto the residue of the heathen, and ye are taken up in the lips of talkers, and are an infamy of the people:

4 Therefore, ye mountains of Israel, hear the word of the Lord God; Thus saith the Lord God to the mountains, and to the hills, to the rivers, and to the valleys, to the desolate wastes, and to the cities that are forsaken, which became a prey and derision to the residue of the heathen that are round about;

5 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Surely in the fire of my jealousy have I spoken against the residue of the heathen, and against all Idumea, which have appointed my land into their possession with the joy of all their heart, with despiteful minds, to cast it out for a prey.

6 Prophesy therefore concerning the land of Israel, and say unto the mountains, and to the hills, to the rivers, and to the valleys, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I have spoken in my jealousy and in my fury, because ye have borne the shame of the heathen:

7 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; I have lifted up mine hand, Surely the heathen that are about you, they shall bear their shame.

8 But ye, O mountains of Israel, ye shall shoot forth your branches, and yield your fruit to my people of Israel; for they are at hand to come.

9 For, behold, I am for you, and I will turn unto you, and ye shall be tilled and sown:

10 And I will multiply men upon you, all the house of Israel, even all of it: and the cities shall be inhabited, and the wastes shall be builded:

11 And I will multiply upon you man and beast; and they shall increase and bring fruit: and I will settle you after your old estates, and will do better unto you than at your beginnings: and ye shall know that I am the Lord.

12 Yea, I will cause men to walk upon you, even my people Israel; and they shall possess thee, and thou shalt be their inheritance, and thou shalt no more henceforth bereave them of men.

13 Thus saith the Lord God; Because they say unto you, Thou land devourest up men, and hast bereaved thy nations:

14 Therefore thou shalt devour men no more, neither bereave thy nations any more, saith the Lord God.

15 Neither will I cause men to hear in thee the shame of the heathen any more, neither shalt thou bear the reproach of the people any more, neither shalt thou cause thy nations to fall any more, saith the Lord God.

16 Moreover the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,

17 Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their own way and by their doings: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman.

18 Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, and for their idols wherewith they had polluted it:

19 And I scattered them among the heathen, and they were dispersed through the countries: according to their way and according to their doings I judged them.

20 And when they entered unto the heathen, whither they went, they profaned my holy name, when they said to them, These are the people of the Lord, and are gone forth out of his land.

21 But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went.

22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, thus saith the Lord God; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.

23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the Lord, saith the Lord God, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.

24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

29 I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you.

30 And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen.

31 Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.

32 Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord God, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.

33 Thus saith the Lord God; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded.
 

John146

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Jan 13, 2016
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Wrong my friend. God uses means to save the elect. The means is the gospel. I am a Missionary Baptist and it’s my belief in the TULIP that drives me to witness to ppl. His sheep WILL hear His voice.
The body of Christ is never referred to as sheep. You’re going back to the Jews before the cross.
 

John146

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Then Jesus sending us all out with regards to the great commission it’s just a waste of time because the elect will be saved nonetheless. duuuurrrrr.
Actually we’d be lying to those non-elect if we told them that Christ died for them. How does the elect know who to witness to without lying? Crazy stuff that calvinism.
 

Lightskin

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2019
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Wrong my friend. God uses means to save the elect. The means is the gospel. I am a Missionary Baptist and it’s my belief in the TULIP that drives me to witness to ppl. His sheep WILL hear His voice.
God is not omnipotent enough to do it Himself? God needs our help? Seriously?
 

Sackcloth-N-Ashes

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Oct 25, 2018
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God is not omnipotent enough to do it Himself? God needs our help? Seriously?
That’s not what I said. Yes God could do it Himself. But He uses means to accomplish His will. The gospel is the means by which the lost are saved.

1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother,
2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ who are at Colossae: Grace to you and peace from God our Father.
3 We give thanks to God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you, 4 since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and the love which you have for all the saints; 5 because of the hope laid up for you in heaven, of which you previously heard in the word of truth, the gospel 6 which has come to you, just as in all the world also it is constantly bearing fruit and increasing, even as it has been doing in you also since the day you heard of it and understood the grace of God in truth; 7 just as you learned it from Epaphras, our beloved fellow bond-servant, who is a faithful servant of Christ on our behalf, 8 and he also informed us of your love in the Spirit.
[Colossians 1]

Without the gospel being proclaimed, none can be saved.
 

Sackcloth-N-Ashes

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Oct 25, 2018
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God is not omnipotent enough to do it Himself? God needs our help? Seriously?
From a Primitive Baptist website...


3. DO YOU BELIEVE IN MISSIONS?

The term's mission and missionary do not appear in the Bible. They represent the introduction of ideas, which were advanced after the giving of the Scriptures. What is a mission? Is it a church? Primitive Baptists do believe in churches and if by missions you mean churches, Primitive Baptists do believe in missions. What is a missionary? Is he a preacher - or a minister of the Gospel? Primitive Baptists believe in God-called ministers of the Gospel and if a missionary is a preacher, we believe in missionaries. Primitive Baptists do believe in preaching the Gospel in all nations (Matthew 28:19), but only as the individual minister is instructed to go by the Holy Spirit. They "were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia" (Acts 16:6-8). We believe the minister is to go as did the Apostle Paul, where the Holy Spirit directs, and is to be supported in this work by the people of God (1 Corinthians 9:14). We do object to the common idea of missions; namely, that eternal salvation is brought to individuals by the preaching of the Gospel. The Gospel does not bring salvation but rather reveals salvation. It is "the savior of death unto death; and... of life unto life" (II Corinthians 2:16).

"And as many as were ordained to eternal life believed" (Acts 13:48). Some people believe that a person cannot be saved unless he hears and accepts the Gospel. This belief completely damns anyone who has not heard the Gospel, even if his failure to hear it was because no one preached it to him. Is it reasonable to assume that God would predicate salvation on a belief such as this? Someone might say that if a person never hears the Gospel, he is not held accountable and will therefore be saved automatically. If this is so, why send preachers anywhere? If a preacher goes to a country where the Gospel is heard for the first time, some will believe and some will not. Those who do not believe are said to be not saved and will go to hell. If we leave the preacher home, all of them would be saved. Can God's plan of salvation have this many holes in it? No, the Bible tells us "thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation..." (Revelation 5:9). Since God has a people in every kindred and tongue and people and nation, certainly their salvation does not depend upon a preacher's reaching them with the Gospel, but it depends upon the redeeming blood of Jesus Christ, and the work of the Holy Spirit.

http://atlantaprimitivebaptistchurch.org/Questions.htm
====================================================

They flatly deny the gospel is necessary to save ppl. Do you agree with this? If yes, you’re a hyper Calvinist avering hyper Calvinism.
 

posthuman

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Jul 31, 2013
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What God predestined is the method not the people.

He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love: having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, wherein He hath made us accepted in the Beloved.
(Ephesians 1:4-6)
chosen us.
predestined us.
made us accepted.


the 'method' is His glorious grace wherein He did this to us.
 

John146

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Jan 13, 2016
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He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love: having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, wherein He hath made us accepted in the Beloved.
(Ephesians 1:4-6)
chosen us.
predestined us.
made us accepted.


the 'method' is His glorious grace wherein He did this to us.
1. Chosen us in him to receive the spiritual blessings in the heavenly places. It does not say that he chose us to be in Him.

2. Predestined us, the us are those in Christ. In Christ, we are predestined to receive the adoption which is the redemption of the body.

3. Made us accepted, where? In Christ. We are accepted in Christ.
 

posthuman

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Jul 31, 2013
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the 'method' is His glorious grace wherein He did this to us.
in mercy

For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.
(Romans 11:32)
in Jesus Christ, the merciful God manifest in the flesh

But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
(Galatians 3:22)
which is a gift of God

For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake
(Philippians 1:29)
not of works, lest anyone should boast

I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.
(John 6:55)
i'm sure of it - it was me who was given

All that the Father giveth Me shall come to Me
(John 6:37)
it is the Father who gives
 

Magenta

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Jul 3, 2015
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The body of Christ is never referred to as sheep. You’re going back to the Jews before the cross.
The body of Christ has shepherds appointed to oversee the flock :) (See Acts 20:28)
 

John146

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The body of Christ has shepherds appointed to oversee the flock :) (See Acts 20:28)
28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Flock = large mass, congregation
To feed the Church not the sheep