Water Baptism-What Does God's Word Say?

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Ignorun

Active member
Dec 18, 2018
180
69
28
#21
It Can’t. If it could That would have been Gods way of salvation since day one.
What healed Naaman? The water or God?

Did anyone ever think that anyone of the apostles was a god? If so, why? What was the apostle/s response to those people?

You know that would have been God's way. That's a bold claim. Very much so. I wouldn't assume such. Not me. I'm mere flesh.
 

MattforJesus

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
1,989
304
83
#24
After Jesus secured salvation through His death, burial, and resurrection, all of mankind must step out in faith and get water baptized into the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of their sins.
Jesus said we must be born of water and the Spirit.

The Bible says baptism does now save us, not the washing away of the filth of the flesh, but a good conscience towards God.

The Bible says if we are planted in the likeness of Christ's death, for we are buried with Him in death, we shall also rise to newness of life along with Him.

Peter said water baptism is for the remission of sins.

Ananias said to Paul, be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Jews, Gentiles, and Samaritans, were all baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Those baptized unto John's baptism had to be rebaptized in the name of Jesus.

The Father said He would reveal a new name to the Jews, and speak to them, which Jesus said to Philip, if you have seen Me then you have seen the Father, for the words that I speak are not My own, but the Father that dwells in Me, He does the works.

Jesus said He came in His Father's name.

The Son inherited the name from the Father.

The Holy Spirit comes in the name of Jesus.

Jesus is the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

We have to believe in the death, burial, and resurrection, of Christ, for salvation, but some people try to take away the water baptism part of it, symbolizing the death of Jesus, and being buried.

Which if we are planted together in the likeness of His death, buried with Him in baptism, we shall rise to newness of life.

Water baptism is part of the salvation plan of God, and many try to take it away.

For we have to identify with the man Christ Jesus, who died, was buried, and rose from the dead, by repenting of our sins, being water baptized, and receiving the Holy Spirit.

1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection.

If we are planted in the likeness of His death, which is by water baptism, we shall also rise in the likeness of His resurrection.

Water baptism is part of the salvation plan of God, and many try to take it away.

Like they say faith alone, but charity, love in action, is greater than faith, and faith works by love, so we have to have works of love or faith does not apply in our life, which they try to take that away also by saying we are not saved by works, but faith alone.

But love is greater than faith, and faith works by love, so it is love alone, and it is love first, then faith, and this love has to be with works, which is charity, which John said do not love in word only, but love in deed and in truth, and if a person does not have charity then the love of God does not dwell in them.

And the Bible says love not the world, and the things in the world, and if they do then the love of the Father is not in them, and the Lord knows them that are His, having this seal, that everyone that names the name of Christ depart from iniquity, and if they hate sin, and do not want sin they can abstain from sin by the Spirit.

But they say they cannot abstain from sin, which means they are holding unto sin, and enjoying sin, and sin does not affect their relationship with God, and take that away from people.

Why do these people take away from people things that must be done, and observed, and water baptism is one of them.

2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

I believe this describes them for they will not allow the Spirit to lead them, and we see people of this sort who like to enjoy sins, and think they are alright.

The Bible plainly states that water baptism is part of the salvation plan of God.

But some people are ever learning, but never able to come to the knowledge of the truth, and deny the power thereof.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
1,227
406
83
#25
Thats not what the bible says. The bible says in th eelentary principles there is one baptism Which one saves it can’t be both



I have read them 1000 times and I do not see what you see.. Your refusing to look at context and the type of baptism which is being spoken of. And as for acts, Your reading an english text which does not adequitly state what the greek states.
The following scripture speaks to the need for all to be water baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins. We know this is a reference to water baptism because Peter goes on to say ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost (baptism) as well.

Notice what is established in Luke 11:11-13 below. Jesus Himself spoke the words. He made the connection that the Holy Ghost baptism was the gift spoken of in Acts 2:38.

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 2:41
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Luke 11:11-13
If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?
Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father GIVE the Holy Spirit to them that ASK him?

In addition, the evidence that two baptisms are required is seen first in Acts 2:38 for the Jewish population; in Acts 8:12, (example of the needed experience for the Samaritan population(Half Jew/Half Gentile); Acts 10:44-48 (example of the needed experience for the Gentile population)

In conclusion, since all three groups of people (Jews, Gentiles, and Samaritans) had to believe God's Word was true, step out in faith and obey the command, we as a descendant of one of the stated peoples must follow their example as recorded.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
23,833
5,689
113
#27
already you are clean because of the word that I have spoken to you.
(John 15:3)

no one should refuse baptism. but imo no one should think it is H2O which has made them clean

if the prophet had told you to do some great thing, would you not have done it?
how much more, then, when he tells you, 'wash and be cleansed'!
(2 Kings 5:13)
 

Hungry

Senior Member
Nov 26, 2012
1,907
524
113
#28
Why does the obvious escape everyone? It is not the water that cleanses our sins in baptism. It is the belief it does. Faith has always been the key. Some people need to associate cause and effect. Like Dumbo and the feather, some need to have a physical understanding. It wasn’t the sacrifices that erased sin, it was belief that their sins were gone that erased guilt. Our conscience needs to be clear to connect or be restored to God. It is this connection that metaphysically empowers us. It is faith that we will be healed, that heals, faith that we will be given wisdom, faith that Christ is the Messiah and faith that our sins are forgiven. No matter what, it is belief, precedes reception. Whether you are a professional athlete, entrepreneur, or connected to Almighty God, faith comes first. Some people can’t accept that the hurdle is a mental one. They need to qualify the prize with a deed, or a price or a lucky charm. The power isn’t in a feather...Dumbo (I’m not calling anyone Dumbo, I just thought that was funny).
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
18,010
5,574
113
53
#29
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.

*Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:47).

In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47. This is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.

So the only logical conclusion *when properly harmonizing Scripture with Scripture* is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18). *Perfect Harmony* (y)

Acts 2:41
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
Those who gladly received his word (upon repentance/faith) were "afterwards" baptized. So they were added to the Lord upon repentance/faith prior to receiving water baptism, just as we see in Acts 10:43;47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9.

Acts 4:4 - However, many of those who heard the word believed; and the number of the men came to be about five thousand. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 5:14 - And believers were increasingly added to the Lord, multitudes of both men and women. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.

In addition, the evidence that two baptisms are required is seen first in Acts 2:38 for the Jewish population; in Acts 8:12, (example of the needed experience for the Samaritan population(Half Jew/Half Gentile); Acts 10:44-48 (example of the needed experience for the Gentile population)

In conclusion, since all three groups of people (Jews, Gentiles, and Samaritans) had to believe God's Word was true, step out in faith and obey the command, we as a descendant of one of the stated peoples must follow their example as recorded.
NOWHERE does the Bible say that we have been saved through faith and baptism or that whoever is not baptized will be condemned, regardless of what Roman Catholics, Mormons and other "works-salvationists" believe. The Bible makes clear that men are saved prior to receiving water baptism. These Gentiles in Acts 10 received the gift of the Holy Spirit and were manifesting the spiritual gift of tongues (which is only for the body of Christ - 1 Corinthians 12) after believing the gospel but before being baptized (Acts 10:44-47). This observation must be balanced, however, by the fact that baptism was not considered an "optional extra" for these Gentiles. It was a command (Acts 10:48) that they were expected to obey. However, it was not obedience to this command that saved them, but their believing in Christ (Acts 10:43).

Baptism is the expected initial outward response to the gospel, but it is not a part of the gospel itself (1 Corinthians 1:17; 15:1-4). There are a handful of "alleged" proof texts which are often cited to prove that the Bible makes baptism mandatory for salvation. A careful examination of each of these texts in context will show that none of them prove that baptism is absolutely required for salvation, though they do prove that baptism was an assumed initiatory response to the gospel of salvation. In other words, these texts only prove that baptism is regularly associated with conversion and salvation, rather than absolutely required for salvation.

As Greek scholar AT Robertson explains, "A symbol is not the reality, but the picture of the reality."

https://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/robertsons-word-pictures/romans/romans-6-4.html
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
23,833
5,689
113
#30
the evidence that two baptisms are required is seen first in Acts 2:38 for the Jewish population; in Acts 8:12, (example of the needed experience for the Samaritan population(Half Jew/Half Gentile); Acts 10:44-48 (example of the needed experience for the Gentile population)
why does scripture say there is one baptism?
((re: Ephesians 4:5))
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
18,010
5,574
113
53
#31
What healed Naaman? The water or God?

Did anyone ever think that anyone of the apostles was a god? If so, why? What was the apostle/s response to those people?

You know that would have been God's way. That's a bold claim. Very much so. I wouldn't assume such. Not me. I'm mere flesh.
I have often heard Campbellites use the healing of Naaman when he dipped in the Jordan river 7 times as an example of receiving remission of sins in the waters of baptism. Yet in the first place, if being healed from leprosy is an illustration of salvation, we have another case that reveals one can be saved without any water. Read it in (Luke 5:12-15). No water is found here.

Secondly, Naaman was not even a believer until after dipping in Jordan. He said "NOW" (after being healed) I know that there is no God in all the earth, but in Israel," (2 Kings 5:15) and vowed to worship only Him (vs. 17). If we follow this "example," we will have to baptize unbelievers! Naaman received cleansing from leprosy (not eternal life) after he dipped in the Jordan 7 times, but no sins were literally remitted for Naaman in Jordan. Likewise, water baptism does not literally remit sins.

The Bible uses the experience of Naaman as illustrative of the SOVEREIGNTY OF GOD, not of salvation by water baptism. Naaman was a heathen, not a believer, and did not know God until the miracle occurred. The purpose of the miracle had nothing to do with salvation by water baptism, but was to demonstrate "there is a prophet in Israel" (2 Kings 5:8) and that "there is no God in all the earth, but in Israel," as Naaman found out (2 Kings 5:15).
 
Mar 14, 2011
62,889
9,628
113
#33
What healed Naaman? The water or God?

Did anyone ever think that anyone of the apostles was a god? If so, why? What was the apostle/s response to those people?

You know that would have been God's way. That's a bold claim. Very much so. I wouldn't assume such. Not me. I'm mere flesh.
If you think the water saved him and Not God. Your taking credit honor and glory away from God. And you should be ashamed

God is the same yesterday today and tomorrow. His way of savation has been the same since the beginning, If he changes his way, Then he is not the same, He has changed.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
2,835
1,979
113
#34
The post had only scripture backing up every point made. Consider that you came to your own conclusion when provided with the rightly divided Word.
I am not avoiding your other questions, and will comment probably tomorrow-short on time right now.
Thanks. I am patiently waiting for that. Especially interested in the question of "is talking in tongues also required evidence for getting the gift of the Holy Spirit"?

I ask that because its also mentioned in the book of Acts almst every time someone gets saved.

The reason I asked the trinity thing is just to see if you are oneness or not, not asking with bad intentions or to slam you. You seem like a polite fellow and I just wanna know what you believe.


I truly believe all of this baptism talk and debate is SELF-INFLICTED wound of Christianity, if we operated without these dumb rituals and separate "baptism days" in church we would NOT have this problem. The second you win someone to Christ, if you got em baptized the SAME DAY, this problem would not exist. But unfortunately many people go weeks or months without getting baptized because of social anxiety, procrastinating, or because their church is one of those "yeah we cant baptize you today, come back in two weeks" kind of churches.

WHAT A DISSERVICE. if I was the protestant version of the pope, i'd set yer straight :D BAPTIZE IMMEDIATELY. Lets get it done people. That way there is no questions ifs and buts. (Except of course, if we should baptize in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ or the Father Son and Holy Spirit. Me personally I believe both are valid cause I cannot believe matthew has been corrupted by catholics and I believe that Jesus wont say to someone "you said the wrong words in baptism, NOT SAVED" in the judgment seat.
 
Mar 14, 2011
62,889
9,628
113
#36
Jesus said we must be born of water and the Spirit.

The Bible says baptism does now save us, not the washing away of the filth of the flesh, but a good conscience towards God.

The Bible says if we are planted in the likeness of Christ's death, for we are buried with Him in death, we shall also rise to newness of life along with Him.

Peter said water baptism is for the remission of sins.

Ananias said to Paul, be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Jews, Gentiles, and Samaritans, were all baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Those baptized unto John's baptism had to be rebaptized in the name of Jesus.

The Father said He would reveal a new name to the Jews, and speak to them, which Jesus said to Philip, if you have seen Me then you have seen the Father, for the words that I speak are not My own, but the Father that dwells in Me, He does the works.

Jesus said He came in His Father's name.

The Son inherited the name from the Father.

The Holy Spirit comes in the name of Jesus.

Jesus is the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

We have to believe in the death, burial, and resurrection, of Christ, for salvation, but some people try to take away the water baptism part of it, symbolizing the death of Jesus, and being buried.

Which if we are planted together in the likeness of His death, buried with Him in baptism, we shall rise to newness of life.

Water baptism is part of the salvation plan of God, and many try to take it away.

For we have to identify with the man Christ Jesus, who died, was buried, and rose from the dead, by repenting of our sins, being water baptized, and receiving the Holy Spirit.

1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection.

If we are planted in the likeness of His death, which is by water baptism, we shall also rise in the likeness of His resurrection.

Water baptism is part of the salvation plan of God, and many try to take it away.

Like they say faith alone, but charity, love in action, is greater than faith, and faith works by love, so we have to have works of love or faith does not apply in our life, which they try to take that away also by saying we are not saved by works, but faith alone.

But love is greater than faith, and faith works by love, so it is love alone, and it is love first, then faith, and this love has to be with works, which is charity, which John said do not love in word only, but love in deed and in truth, and if a person does not have charity then the love of God does not dwell in them.

And the Bible says love not the world, and the things in the world, and if they do then the love of the Father is not in them, and the Lord knows them that are His, having this seal, that everyone that names the name of Christ depart from iniquity, and if they hate sin, and do not want sin they can abstain from sin by the Spirit.

But they say they cannot abstain from sin, which means they are holding unto sin, and enjoying sin, and sin does not affect their relationship with God, and take that away from people.

Why do these people take away from people things that must be done, and observed, and water baptism is one of them.

2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

I believe this describes them for they will not allow the Spirit to lead them, and we see people of this sort who like to enjoy sins, and think they are alright.

The Bible plainly states that water baptism is part of the salvation plan of God.

But some people are ever learning, but never able to come to the knowledge of the truth, and deny the power thereof.
Lol.. The jews were told physical circumcicion saved them, In fact they were told if they rejected being circumcised, they would not be part of Gods people

Yet we are told physical circumcision has never saved anyone (did God Lie?) that it was spiritual circumcision done by the nads of God which saves all men. How is this spiritual circumcision done? By the Hand of God through baptism by the one who raised Jesus from the dead.

If you think some man (a sinner) can immerse you in water (that is not even clean water) and by it your sins will be washed away, you no better than the jews Who claimed unless a man be circumcised, by a sinner, or a sacrifice is made, by a sinner, you will not be saved.

Interpret those passage in context. And interoret the word the English writers MESSED up by transliterating the word, as the peole to Whom those words were written to in the first place.
 
Mar 14, 2011
62,889
9,628
113
#37
The following scripture speaks to the need for all to be water baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins. We know this is a reference to water baptism because Peter goes on to say ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost (baptism) as well.

Notice what is established in Luke 11:11-13 below. Jesus Himself spoke the words. He made the connection that the Holy Ghost baptism was the gift spoken of in Acts 2:38.

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 2:41
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Luke 11:11-13
If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?
Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father GIVE the Holy Spirit to them that ASK him?

In addition, the evidence that two baptisms are required is seen first in Acts 2:38 for the Jewish population; in Acts 8:12, (example of the needed experience for the Samaritan population(Half Jew/Half Gentile); Acts 10:44-48 (example of the needed experience for the Gentile population)

In conclusion, since all three groups of people (Jews, Gentiles, and Samaritans) had to believe God's Word was true, step out in faith and obey the command, we as a descendant of one of the stated peoples must follow their example as recorded.
Acts, in the greek

A command to all “repent ye, and ye shall recieve the gift of the holy spirit (all 2nd person plural words)
And let every one of you be baptised, on the account of the fact, you have recieved remmision of sin (again, 3nd person singular words)

One must interpret each word using the rules of language, A 2nd person plural word does not fit or have any part in a 3rd person singular word and vice versa.

And we can also prove this by the verse. AND EVERYONE WHO BELIEVED was baptised. Why were they baptised? Peter told us already, BECAUSE THEY HAD RECIEVED REMISSION OF SIN.

Again, If you want to trust some sinner to immerse you in water, feel free.

I will trust God, who says HE WILL BAPTISE ME into his death his burial his body, and his family.

 
Mar 14, 2011
62,889
9,628
113
#38
with the Spirit and with fire ;)

((Matthew 3:11, Luke 3:16, Acts 1:5, Acts 11:16))
Amen, everyonen WILL be baptised be Jesus

In this lifetime By the spirit (seperating the wheat from the chaff)

Or in the next time, as chaff, being baptised By Jesus himself to the fire which will never be quenched.

Water baptism can do non of these things, You can not replac ethe baptism of God with the baptism of water. And get away with it.
 

carl11

Senior Member
Oct 20, 2017
277
31
28
#40
In water probably not but with water without a doubt. Remember that Christ spoke in parables and with that in mind what does water have to do spiritually. I believe you know that it has to deal with the word of God and without the word of God not one person can become saved / baptized.