John 3:3

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Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
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#21
Excuse me but I'm a little confused. I thought that water baptism is commanded "AFTER" one is saved, not a part of doing it to get saved, which btw is a work. By getting water baptised you identify yourself with Jesus Christ as being one of His followers.

This is also why Matthew 28:19 says, "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them (the disciples) in the name of the Father and the Son and of the Holy Spirit." In other words, you get water baptized after your a disciple, not to become a disciple.

So, this means that you footprint and wansvic are wrong and the crowd is Biblically right. Btw, your also mis-applying Matthew 7:13,14 as it applies to this issue. One more thing, the thief on the cross was not water baptized and Jesus told him he will be in Paradise with Jesus. What was it that saved the thief? :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen." Matt 28:19-20

All are to be baptized in Jesus' name in obedience to the command.

The thief was under the OT dispensation. The NT began after Jesus' death, burial and bodily resurrection.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
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#22
John 3 has nothing to do with water baptism.

If any one needs proof. It is in jesus words.

In answer to Nicodemus question about how one is born again, Jesus gave the following answer.

John 3:
9 Nicodemus answered and said to Him, “How can these things be?”

Jesus answer!

10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things? 11 Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man [b]who is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up,15 that whoever believes in Him should [c]not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Notice

1. He never once said anythign about having to be baptised
2. He used an OT passage, where people looked up in faith to the serpant and in it they were saved. Saying Jesus is the serpant, So whoever in faith LOOKS UP TO HIM, will be saved
3. He said belief or true faith ALONE is what saves and whoever has done this, wIll NEVER DIE

4. HE said clearly, Whoever does not believe is in the continued state of condemnation. (Once again, NO mention of not being baptised)

People trying to use this passage to support their salvation by immersion in PHYSICAL water by the work of man, twist it and make a doctrine that is not only not mention, but not even HINTED at in this passage.
Belief requires accepting the truth about Jesus and responding to Him as well.

Jesus said unless a man is reborn he cannot SEE the kingdom. He goes on to say unless a man is born of water and Spirit he cannot ENTER the kingdom. John 3:3-5

Jesus instructed a blind man to go wash in the pool of Siloam. Upon being obedient to Jesus' command the blind man received his sight. Jesus also commands people to go to the water and get water baptized.


"And said unto him, Go, wash in the pool of Siloam, (which is by interpretation, Sent.) He went his way therefore, and washed, and came seeing.

8 The neighbours therefore, and they which before had seen him that he was blind, said, Is not this he that sat and begged?

9 Some said, This is he: others said, He is like him: but he said, I am he.

10 Therefore said they unto him, How were thine eyes opened?

11 He answered and said, A man that is called Jesus made clay, and anointed mine eyes, and said unto me, Go to the pool of Siloam, and wash: and I went and washed, and I received sight." John 9:7-11
 

Wansvic

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Nov 27, 2018
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#23
One's obedience to the truth is worship. The scripture speaks of one worshiping God with their spirit. This is done through speaking in tongues that were received through the infilling of the Holy Spirit. (1 Cor 14:2)
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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#24
Belief requires accepting the truth about Jesus and responding to Him as well.

Jesus said unless a man is reborn he cannot SEE the kingdom. He goes on to say unless a man is born of water and Spirit he cannot ENTER the kingdom. John 3:3-5

Jesus instructed a blind man to go wash in the pool of Siloam. Upon being obedient to Jesus' command the blind man received his sight. Jesus also commands people to go to the water and get water baptized.


"And said unto him, Go, wash in the pool of Siloam, (which is by interpretation, Sent.) He went his way therefore, and washed, and came seeing.

8 The neighbours therefore, and they which before had seen him that he was blind, said, Is not this he that sat and begged?

9 Some said, This is he: others said, He is like him: but he said, I am he.

10 Therefore said they unto him, How were thine eyes opened?

11 He answered and said, A man that is called Jesus made clay, and anointed mine eyes, and said unto me, Go to the pool of Siloam, and wash: and I went and washed, and I received sight." John 9:7-11
This is to bathed himself and not get water baptized. In water baptism it takes two to administer, the case however here is one, he himself is goung to wash.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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#25
One's obedience to the truth is worship. The scripture speaks of one worshiping God with their spirit. This is done through speaking in tongues that were received through the infilling of the Holy Spirit. (1 Cor 14:2)
Complete fabrication containing no truth. Worship is through Spirit and Truth both of which are in the Word of God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
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#26
This is to bathed himself and not get water baptized. In water baptism it takes two to administer, the case however here is one, he himself is goung to wash.
The point-Jesus sent the blind man to the water.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
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#27
Complete fabrication containing no truth. Worship is through Spirit and Truth both of which are in the Word of God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
The answer from the word:
"For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries." 1 Cor 14:2

God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. John 4:24
 
Dec 9, 2011
11,343
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#29
One's obedience to the truth is worship. The scripture speaks of one worshiping God with their spirit. This is done through speaking in tongues that were received through the infilling of the Holy Spirit. (1 Cor 14:2)
IMO,ones obedience to the truth Is to say yes to JESUS who said come unto ME all who labor and are heavy laden and I will give you rest.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
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#30
This is to bathed himself and not get water baptized. In water baptism it takes two to administer, the case however here is one, he himself is goung to wash.
I know the scripture is not specifically pertaining to an actual water baptism. It is a picture of the concept behind God ordained water baptism.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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#31
Belief requires accepting the truth about Jesus and responding to Him as well.

Jesus said unless a man is reborn he cannot SEE the kingdom. He goes on to say unless a man is born of water and Spirit he cannot ENTER the kingdom. John 3:3-5

Jesus instructed a blind man to go wash in the pool of Siloam. Upon being obedient to Jesus' command the blind man received his sight. Jesus also commands people to go to the water and get water baptized.


"And said unto him, Go, wash in the pool of Siloam, (which is by interpretation, Sent.) He went his way therefore, and washed, and came seeing.

8 The neighbours therefore, and they which before had seen him that he was blind, said, Is not this he that sat and begged?

9 Some said, This is he: others said, He is like him: but he said, I am he.

10 Therefore said they unto him, How were thine eyes opened?

11 He answered and said, A man that is called Jesus made clay, and anointed mine eyes, and said unto me, Go to the pool of Siloam, and wash: and I went and washed, and I received sight." John 9:7-11
I would rather say his belief resulted to his obedience not obedience as a requirement...
 

Wansvic

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Nov 27, 2018
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#32
IMO,ones obedience to the truth Is to say yes to JESUS who said come unto ME all who labor and are heavy laden and I will give you rest.
The first thing one must do is accept Jesus' sacrifice. That goes without saying. But the word does not tell us to stop there. There is more truth requiring obedience. The righteousness of God is revealed faith by faith. One step of faith after another. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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#33
I know the scripture is not specifically pertaining to an actual water baptism. It is a picture of the concept behind God ordained water baptism.
I would say, it is a wrong application of what you are trying to point out.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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#34
The answer from the word:
"For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries." 1 Cor 14:2

God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. John 4:24
You cannot worship God speaking tongues that you do not understand. There is no edification for you if there is no knowledge of the conversation. To believe otherwise is utter nonsense.

1 Cor 14:15 ¶ What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

The apostle Paul nerver taught that prayer or worship without knowledge was a positive matter.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
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#35
I would rather say his belief resulted to his obedience not obedience as a requirement...
Faith is made perfect through obedience. They are connected.

Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? James 2:22

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. James 2:24

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. James 2:26
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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#36
The first thing one must do is accept Jesus' sacrifice. That goes without saying. But the word does not tell us to stop there. There is more truth requiring obedience. The righteousness of God is revealed faith by faith. One step of faith after another. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
If you accept Christ sacrifice then that would suffice, adding to what Christ did is to crucify Christ once again. One's obedience is the result not a part to obtain salvation.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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#37
Faith is made perfect through obedience. They are connected.

Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? James 2:22

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. James 2:24

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. James 2:26
This simply shows your faith doesn't work at all to Christ. Faith and works are diffrent. One is the cause and the other is the effect.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
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#38
I would say, it is a wrong application of what you are trying to point out.
I do not believe Jesus performed this miracle in the fashion He chose without the intention to convey a truth. He could have just as easily told the man to receive his sight and it would have miraculously occurred.

The bible record makes it clear that God does nothing haphazardly.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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#39
Faith is made perfect through obedience. They are connected.

Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? James 2:22

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. James 2:24

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. James 2:26
Also it's a matter of understanding the term justification here. This justification is in the mans sight and not God's sight.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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#40
I do not believe Jesus performed this miracle in the fashion He chose without the intention to convey a truth. He could have just as easily told the man to receive his sight and it would have miraculously occurred.

The bible record makes it clear that God does nothing haphazardly.
The truth is Jesus alone can save. The blind obedience is only to prove his belief in Christ