Joshua’s long day

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Scrobulous

Active member
Sep 17, 2018
180
36
28
#1
Hi folks,

I have been very surprised to read about the controversies surrounding Joshua’s long day and the various explanations put forward to explain how God could stop the sun and moon. It is plain that stopping or slowing the Earth’s spin would create havoc, as the inertia of the oceans and atmosphere would rip the landscape to shreds: A thing there is no archeological or historical evidence to support.

So various other ideas, ranging from the text being poetical, to confusion with an eclipse, a miracle of refraction, the sun ceasing to shine rather than ceasing to move, even that the verses were a quote from the book of Jasher and not real scripture, have all been tendered. Really, you have to admire the ingenuity!

Even NASA have made a contribution, suggesting that the effects described In Joshua 10 could be achieved by moving the sun itself, but add, in the condescending manner we have come to expect, that there is no evidence of such a thing! NASA, to be fair, only weighed in on the issue, because some desperate soul peddled a rumour to the effect that NASA had uncovered a missing day when their computers were plotting the location of the planets in the distant past. This is one of the famous ‘urban myths’.

As soon as one admits that there is a God, things like stopping the sun and moon are all in a day’s work. But if you take such a view you miss many lessons!

The miracles of God are always instructive, not gratuitous. The miracles have to be understood in terms of a revelation of the kingdom of God. In other words, when the kingdom comes; that is the presence of God is localised, the situation changes. The sick are healed, because in the kingdom of God no one is sick. The blind see and lepers are cleansed for the same reason. There is abundance, not poverty, so a multiplicity of loaves and fish. The fig tree was cursed because it was not fruitful. Jesus’ tetchy attitude towards a tree shows that he does not compromise with a fallen world. Demons flee and the dead are raised because these are the normal rules of heaven. You don’t get God making fire breathing dragons or flying horses! The miracles are simply a tweak of the existing laws of nature.

Walking on water and the ascension could be seen as a violation of natural law, but both events were, in my opinion, performed for illustrative purposes and applying a force under Jesus is not breaking a physical law.

So where does this leave us with Joshua’s long day?

God could very easily stop the sun and moon by slowing time. Slowing time in the sense that time passes normally on the earth, but outside the earth, time was passing much quicker, at the normal rate in fact. For the scientists among you, this is exactly what happens in relativity. If we are in a spaceship travelling very fast or in a ship that approaches a super massive object, time slows down. This doesn’t mean we all start moving in slo-mo. The result would be exactly what was described in Joshua. The time would pass normally on earth, so Joshua’s army could continue fighting. But the sun and moon, being outside the frame of slowed or stopped time, would appear from the earth, not to move.

Certainly a miracle was involved, namely slowing time, but this is not a violation of nature. Time can slow down as part of natural physics.

I am curious to know why this view about time is never offered as an explanation for Joshua’s long day, when obviously phoney explanations, like an eclipse are? Perhaps lots of people have suggested slowing time and I just haven’t found them?
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
32,526
3,600
113
#2
There is much to ponder when it comes to this event and the sun going back 10 degrees on the dial as proof to Hezekiah that he would live....I have read there is astronomical evidence that about a day is missing, but cannot remember where I read it.....as far as how it was accomplished....God can hold all things in place and stop the proverbial clock if he so chooses I suppose....I like what you say about time because I have said that God could have slowed the rotation of the earth down to the extent that creation over 7 days (7 evenings and mornings) could have been any lenght of time he wanted and it would have still been 7 evenings and 7 mornings......I mean....look at everything that takes place on the 6th day after Adam was created and before Eve is made from his side......and note how long days are on certain planets just within our solar system....Venus for example takes 243 earth days to rotate once....many anomalies and things to ponder for sure....!!
 

LPT

Senior Member
Dec 24, 2017
1,442
479
83
#3
If considering how the sun goes up and down each day was the sun the object that got stopped or the earth. Science says the earth rotates around the sun and the earth spines in which that is what makes a day according to science.
 

luigi

Junior Member
Dec 6, 2015
463
76
28
#4
The earth ceasing its rotation is only one way a sun dial would remain stationary for the time involved.
Another could be the sun moving.
I like the song "Holly holy" by Neil Diamond where someone calls the sun to rise in the dead of night.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
761
113
#5
Blah, thats easy... because the flat earth :p

With the current scientific model, I would suggest that some kind of refraction in the atmosphere would be the easiest way to do it.
 

Scrobulous

Active member
Sep 17, 2018
180
36
28
#6
There is much to ponder when it comes to this event and the sun going back 10 degrees on the dial as proof to Hezekiah that he would live....I have read there is astronomical evidence that about a day is missing, but cannot remember where I read it.....as far as how it was accomplished....God can hold all things in place and stop the proverbial clock if he so chooses I suppose....I like what you say about time because I have said that God could have slowed the rotation of the earth down to the extent that creation over 7 days (7 evenings and mornings) could have been any lenght of time he wanted and it would have still been 7 evenings and 7 mornings......I mean....look at everything that takes place on the 6th day after Adam was created and before Eve is made from his side......and note how long days are on certain planets just within our solar system....Venus for example takes 243 earth days to rotate once....many anomalies and things to ponder for sure....!!
What you are referring to is a NASA urban myth. It is not true.
Regarding the days of creation, I would say that since a day is like 1000 years to God, we don’t need to be too literal about the details. God is getting his message across in a way that can be understood in ancient times as a literal truth and in modern times as a parable. At least that’s how I see it!
I guess I am trying to point out that people react to miracles in different ways. Some say miracles CANNOT happen and try to explain the biblical text in terms of natural phenomena, so they will say, for example, it must have been an eclipse, even though the account explicitely states that the sun and moon are in different places.
If we do concede a miracle, atheists like to show that the result of the miracle creates impossibilities, so, if the miracle was to stop the earth spinning, that would create havoc. It is a completely illogical position to take, since they have already accepted that the rotation of the earth can be suddenly stopped. It would merely take a second miracle to reverse all the side effects. All I am saying is that if God slowed down time on the earth, there are no side effects, so the atheists can’t play their little ‘straw man’ games. The solution is so neat, in fact, that I am surprised no one else has suggested it.
Since God made all the laws of physics in the first place, normal life is a miracle. It is just a miracle we are used to. God likes to perform miracles we are not used to for two reasons. The first is to demonstrate his power and teach us something in the process. The second, I believe, is because he knows miracles offend lots of people. God is in the business of sorting humanity into two categories. The evil people and the evil people who want God to help them. The first group lay down their own rules for what they will accept and not accept. God finds this attitude offensive. It lacks humility. It is narrow minded. Any claim to reason depends on the underlying assumptions. The motive for these assumptions is what interests God.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
20,178
2,467
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#7
or did the passage of time itself slow, relative to Joshua and his army?
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
13,669
1,277
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#8
Remember the sun also went back several degrees as a sign to Hezikiah.
 

Scrobulous

Active member
Sep 17, 2018
180
36
28
#9
or did the passage of time itself slow, relative to Joshua and his army?
That is what I am saying. Time for Joshua, his army and the entire planet slows down. Time for the sun and moon continues as normal. As seen from the earth, the sun and moon would stand still because time for the earth has almost stopped. But on the earth, time appears to pass as normal. These are exactly the results one would expect from the theory of relativity. They are counter-intuitive, but this is what real physics would produce.
The example is an exact analogy with the retarding spin scenario, in which real physics would create massive storms and tsunamis. In my proposal you don’t have any side effects. I think this is brilliant, but I seem to be in a very small group!
 

Scrobulous

Active member
Sep 17, 2018
180
36
28
#10
Remember the sun also went back several degrees as a sign to Hezikiah.
Yes. The stairs of Ahaz. I’ve been thinking about that one too.
It is a completely different class of problem from Joshua’s longest day.
The implications are profound, because it suggests God breaks the laws of physics, instead of merely adjusting them. I will post on it when I can make some sense of it, or ar least, when I can ask the forum a meaningful question.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
1,930
249
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#11
Time itself is nothing more than a construct of the mind; IOW, it doesn't exist outside a conscious mind.
Knowing that they actually prayed to God to slow time, God fulfilled the desires of their heart (mind) not by interfering physically with the solar system but by recreating within them 'time delay'.

It all happened in the spirit just like the baptism of Jesus; the sound from heaven and a dove descending were witnessed by Jesus and John only in the midst of a multitude.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
13,669
1,277
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#12
Faith is truly wonderful and cannot be proven but it is mind-boggling what a person is ableto derive from the words fo the Bible and the understanding provided by the spirit guiding them.

Myself, I believe the words in the Word because of the gift given me by my Father and yours.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
13,669
1,277
113
#13
Yes. The stairs of Ahaz. I’ve been thinking about that one too.
It is a completely different class of problem from Joshua’s longest day.
The implications are profound, because it suggests God breaks the laws of physics, instead of merely adjusting them. I will post on it when I can make some sense of it, or ar least, when I can ask the forum a meaningful question.

According to the gift of faith, God does not break any laws per se, for He crated the entire system for us to use. If anything
man breaks laws.

God is not bound by anything, especially the creation He created along with the manner in qhich He set it up to work for His purposes.

To imply the Maker of all that is is bound by any governing mechanisms of the Universe He crated, again, is preposterous.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
3,606
719
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#14
If people do not believe that a all powerful God exists they cannot believe even the most basic of Bible miracles...

If a person believes in an all powerful God then believing in the Miracles revealed in the Bible is easy as drinking water...

Having said that God may have caused the even in discussion here by causing a cloud of light distorting Gas to move in between earth and the sun which could have caused the light of the sun to bend back and forth as the gas cloud passed between earth and the sun.. This Gas cloud would not have even needed to cause this to happen on a global scale, only in the local area where the Israelite's where observing the happening..

But having said that it is only a theory.. God could have indeed cause the world to stop spinning and caused it to reverse for a short time all the while holding every atom of earth in it's place so as to prevent the tsunamis and massive earthquakes and tornadoes and other massive disasters people think would happen if God did such a thing..

So it does not matter how God caused this phenomenon to happen.. God caused it to happen.. So be it..
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
13,669
1,277
113
#15
If people would just have faith that God is not called Almighty (All Mighty) for nothing.

His mind is not the mind of man. He is able to do anything, and anything He chooses to do is always good.
 

Scrobulous

Active member
Sep 17, 2018
180
36
28
#16
Time itself is nothing more than a construct of the mind; IOW, it doesn't exist outside a conscious mind.
Knowing that they actually prayed to God to slow time, God fulfilled the desires of their heart (mind) not by interfering physically with the solar system but by recreating within them 'time delay'.

It all happened in the spirit just like the baptism of Jesus; the sound from heaven and a dove descending were witnessed by Jesus and John only in the midst of a multitude.
If time does not exist, one event cannot follow another and no sequence of events can take place unless there is a conscious mind to observe them. But we know that flowers grow unseen in remote places, corals grow in the seas and stalactites grow in isolated caves. And that is just on the earth. All kinds of events take place in the universe, so time must be independent of the observer.
If each mind independently constructs its own reality, how can we synchronise events? Are you suggesting that only you exist and everyone else is a figment of your imagination?
 

Scrobulous

Active member
Sep 17, 2018
180
36
28
#17
If people do not believe that a all powerful God exists they cannot believe even the most basic of Bible miracles...

If a person believes in an all powerful God then believing in the Miracles revealed in the Bible is easy as drinking water...

Having said that God may have caused the even in discussion here by causing a cloud of light distorting Gas to move in between earth and the sun which could have caused the light of the sun to bend back and forth as the gas cloud passed between earth and the sun.. This Gas cloud would not have even needed to cause this to happen on a global scale, only in the local area where the Israelite's where observing the happening..

But having said that it is only a theory.. God could have indeed cause the world to stop spinning and caused it to reverse for a short time all the while holding every atom of earth in it's place so as to prevent the tsunamis and massive earthquakes and tornadoes and other massive disasters people think would happen if God did such a thing..

So it does not matter how God caused this phenomenon to happen.. God caused it to happen.. So be it..
Hello Adstar! I hope you are well and not mad at me!
You are right. God could have used any means to create the effect described in the bible and we are all speculating on how he did it. It is entirely possible that he used a means that none of us understand. As you say, the main thing is that he did such a thing and our job is to learn the spiritual lesson from it. Thinking about how he did it is just a bit of fun.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
20,178
2,467
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#18
These are exactly the results one would expect from the theory of relativity.
i'm not unacquainted with relativity. are you suggesting that Joshua et al were accelerated near light speed or that they were emplaced in a extreme gravitational field?

i'm sorry i didn't make it all the way through the OP when i first replied. often i don't have a lot of time when i am browsing here.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
20,178
2,467
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#19
But we know that flowers grow unseen in remote places, corals grow in the seas and stalactites grow in isolated caves. And that is just on the earth. All kinds of events take place in the universe, so time must be independent of the observer.
we don't know this until we indirectly or directly observe them ;)

and there is One who observes all things at all times