Just me and Ken C, How do you understand Gal 3:2-5? (Others may also respond)
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It would surely be nice to see more like you! I've been here for 2 days and the rudeness & nasty retorts I've witnessed is outrageous. One lady here has been harassing me claiming I'm someone who was banned, and HEAVEN FORBID if you actually believe you're supposed to live a holy lifestyle or believe in all the gifts of God .... SMH
Fortunately we are NOT responsible for other forum members conduct. It is often difficult enough maintaining our own testimony. It is important to remember that it is the nature of a forum to be a place where ideas come under attack.
Those ideas which stand up well under attack are probably worth keeping; and those which don't, we are probably better off without. Problems arise when we develop too much fondness for our own untested ideas. If, when our ideas come under attack, we take personal offense; we should probably not be putting them on a forum where others will be trying to shoot them down.
A bad idea does not in any way detract from the value of the person it came from; however a bad idea should not be expected to survive on a forum.
Those of us who come to a forum to help others and to be helped by others to think clearly will not be guilty of angry exchanges unless we unjustly come under personal attack. Even then, we would do better to recognize the attack as the other person's problem and let it slide.
S
Most of the verses you are using are speaking of walking out what has already been done inside. When I say I am perfect, I am not boasting of my walk. I am stating the truth of what the new birth has already done for me in the Spirit. Through my faith in that truth I am to perfect my walk which is what the scriptures tell us to do, but as far as my Spirit and my Salvation, that is perfected the moment I accept Christ as my savior.
Let me ask you this. Let's suppose a person asks for and receives salvation. Right away they die. Will they go to Heaven? The answer is yes! The only way they can go to Heaven is by having received perfection. That person is completely forgiven and completely right with God at the moment of receiving salvation. If it were not so then they would need to earn perfection through their good works and they would not go to heaven until they had the chance to earn it. Earned salvation is a lie!
Let me ask you this. Let's suppose a person asks for and receives salvation. Right away they die. Will they go to Heaven? The answer is yes! The only way they can go to Heaven is by having received perfection. That person is completely forgiven and completely right with God at the moment of receiving salvation. If it were not so then they would need to earn perfection through their good works and they would not go to heaven until they had the chance to earn it. Earned salvation is a lie!
K
Your post right here in your own words shows exactly what I was saying, as you are placing salvation in the place of faith.
For our actions are a product of a true faith in the Lord that leads to salvation through Him, not the product of salvation as that is the promise we receive at the end of our faith by keeping ind the sound doctrine of our Lord.
For our actions are a product of a true faith in the Lord that leads to salvation through Him, not the product of salvation as that is the promise we receive at the end of our faith by keeping ind the sound doctrine of our Lord.
K
Well I don't know where you get your understanding from because I have seen more way ruder people on here who follow what you believe to be truth, then those who believe along the lines as me.
Then you take and say my error as if you are completely correct in all understanding, which I can say you are not, and I know this because there are well known scholars from the past and present that are still learning things every year and some of them I have read are even wrong in their understanding of scripture.
We must remember that there is no private interpretations and in Christ His ways(words) are simple, if anything is complicating the word of God or making it to where only a college education can understand it then it is taking away from the Holy Spirit and putting the understanding in that of man.
We are the most vocal because the Holy Spirit is grieved at the number of people who preach grace and faith in the Lord our God, but then in the next breath say His teachings and commands do not have to be kept. How is there any true love and trust in a statement like that? There isn't !!!
Then you take and say my error as if you are completely correct in all understanding, which I can say you are not, and I know this because there are well known scholars from the past and present that are still learning things every year and some of them I have read are even wrong in their understanding of scripture.
We must remember that there is no private interpretations and in Christ His ways(words) are simple, if anything is complicating the word of God or making it to where only a college education can understand it then it is taking away from the Holy Spirit and putting the understanding in that of man.
We are the most vocal because the Holy Spirit is grieved at the number of people who preach grace and faith in the Lord our God, but then in the next breath say His teachings and commands do not have to be kept. How is there any true love and trust in a statement like that? There isn't !!!
The problem with saying that is that no one is actually saying we don't keep His commands but rather such keeping is done effortlessly and not by striving. We don't look to see what we ought to do and strive to do it. We walk out who we already are in Jesus Christ. One is a work of the flesh to boast how far you've come and the other is a resting that boasts in where the Lord has brought us.
Surely God would not like it for us to say because of grace we do not have to love others, but we emphasize that the loving of others doesn't save us. That is not a contradiction, that's grace. We aren't saved by what we do so that salvation may be a wage due but we rest in Jesus Christ, His finished work at the cross. We do love, its who we now are in Jesus being born again. Such love is a fruit of having been saved, saved unto good works. However, we are saved onto good works. Hence we have salvation.
The reason someone may say we do not do something Jesus said is for the very reason that He spoke Law to people under the Law and we aren't under the law. So, not everything Jesus said applies to the NT believer because we are under grace. We are under a different covenant, so don't bring mixture into the equation and start combining grace and law, which would nullify both of them. That's the problem, when you start pushing rules and regulations on people who are in liberty. Once you start doing that you are just giving the flesh an opportunity to strike, to take advantage. This is why we no longer serve in the oldness of the letter but the newness of the spirit.
Surely God would not like it for us to say because of grace we do not have to love others, but we emphasize that the loving of others doesn't save us. That is not a contradiction, that's grace. We aren't saved by what we do so that salvation may be a wage due but we rest in Jesus Christ, His finished work at the cross. We do love, its who we now are in Jesus being born again. Such love is a fruit of having been saved, saved unto good works. However, we are saved onto good works. Hence we have salvation.
The reason someone may say we do not do something Jesus said is for the very reason that He spoke Law to people under the Law and we aren't under the law. So, not everything Jesus said applies to the NT believer because we are under grace. We are under a different covenant, so don't bring mixture into the equation and start combining grace and law, which would nullify both of them. That's the problem, when you start pushing rules and regulations on people who are in liberty. Once you start doing that you are just giving the flesh an opportunity to strike, to take advantage. This is why we no longer serve in the oldness of the letter but the newness of the spirit.
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S
Let me get this straight, correct me if I am wrong. It sounds like you are saying that someone isn't saved at the moment that they call upon the Lord for salvation trusting in him as savior. It sounds like you are saying that they are only saved depending of how well they keep sound doctrine (works) after they asked for salvation.
Ken,
I was trying to acknowledge that you are not rude. I was not trying to compare levels of rudeness between the different positions. Since more members seem to defend Salvation by grace alone, and since there are a fixed number of rude people on the forum; you are probably right that there are more rude people on my side of the issue.
Again, since more members seem to defend Salvation by grace alone, private interpretation does not seem to be an issue.
I did not consider your being vocal a fault! I thought that two vocal, articulate, and polite people on the other side of the issue would be more pleasant to discuss the issue with than than forum at large.
The discussion did not develop as I hoped it would; so I thanked you for your response and moved on.
I was trying to acknowledge that you are not rude. I was not trying to compare levels of rudeness between the different positions. Since more members seem to defend Salvation by grace alone, and since there are a fixed number of rude people on the forum; you are probably right that there are more rude people on my side of the issue.
Again, since more members seem to defend Salvation by grace alone, private interpretation does not seem to be an issue.
I did not consider your being vocal a fault! I thought that two vocal, articulate, and polite people on the other side of the issue would be more pleasant to discuss the issue with than than forum at large.
The discussion did not develop as I hoped it would; so I thanked you for your response and moved on.