Justified by work vs faith

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#301
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#301
Blue_Of_Lake said:
His teaching is very simple. "Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand".

no repent, no Kingdom. repent is of the Heart. no changes in Heart, no Kingdom. any Child can understand this. very simple. like unto the Command of honour Parents which many children Taught they should do (in one way or Another).

You must Change, the Kingdom is at Hand. you can Find it -- If you Change.

the more you Change (repent) the more you Find it.

if you do not believe this (have Faith that it will work and keep having faith) you may stop repenting and stop being as changed as you once were and stop changing too. so you also need to keep faith, believe, don't stop believing in Repent, repented, Kingdom -- at hand -- very Near -- unless you fall away from Faith -- not as Near. :)
Click to expand...
yeah, that's not biblical .
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#302
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#302
Blue_Of_Lake said:
His teaching is very simple. "Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand".

no repent, no Kingdom. repent is of the Heart. no changes in Heart, no Kingdom. any Child can understand this. very simple. like unto the Command of honour Parents which many children Taught they should do (in one way or Another).

You must Change, the Kingdom is at Hand. you can Find it -- If you Change.

the more you Change (repent) the more you Find it.

if you do not believe this (have Faith that it will work and keep having faith) you may stop repenting and stop being as changed as you once were and stop changing too. so you also need to keep faith, believe, don't stop believing in Repent, repented, Kingdom -- at hand -- very Near -- unless you fall away from Faith -- not as Near. :)
Click to expand...
He also instructed not to go to the gentiles with this message Matthew 10:5

Does this make that message less simple?
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#304
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
#304
throughfaith said:
1 Peter 1:4 (KJV) To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
just think about this verse a while .
An inheritance! ( interesting ) incorruptible! , undefiled! , fadeth not away ! RESERVED ( OK VERY INTERESTING ) WHERE ? In Heaven !!!!!
Click to expand...
I agree, I can't wait any longer to be there
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#305
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#305
throughfaith said:
1 Peter 1:4 (KJV) To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
just think about this verse a while .
An inheritance! ( interesting ) incorruptible! , undefiled! , fadeth not away ! RESERVED ( OK VERY INTERESTING ) WHERE ? In Heaven !!!!!
Click to expand...
Yes, for the nation Israel, their eternal life is waiting for the in heaven when they die.

But for us in the Body of Christ, Paul states we have eternal life now (Ephesians 1:3)
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#306
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
#306
Guojing said:
Yes, for the nation Israel, their eternal life is waiting for the in heaven when they die.

But for us in the Body of Christ, Paul states we have eternal life now (Ephesians 1:3)
Click to expand...
No more years in heaven, No more sickness, No tired

Are you never sick or tired, because you are in heaven now?
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#308
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#308
Jackson123 said:
No more years in heaven, No more sickness, No tired

Are you never sick or tired, because you are in heaven now?
Click to expand...
I am not in heaven now, I am waiting, as Paul stated in Romans 8, for the redemption of my current earthly body.

18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#309
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
#309
throughfaith said:
But you seem to be saying your not saved , sealed and have guarantee.
Click to expand...
Sealed or not is depend oN what we do.
If we do like this


Galatians 5:21
“Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”

Than No heaven or No sealed
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#311
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#311
Jackson123 said:
Sealed or not is depend oN what we do.
If we do like this


Galatians 5:21
“Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”

Than No heaven or No sealed
Click to expand...
Ok Mr Galations 5:21 . As I've said we have two options with your one verse . Either " inheritance ' refers to ' rewards or it refers to unbelievers. Many places unbelievers are referenced to as to sinners ( we are all sinners ) certain sins ( ungodly , unrighteous, clouds without water ,wicked , whores , dogs , sons of perdition , )
or they are described like this in Romans 1 and 3
13Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17And the way of peace have they not known:
18There is no fear of God before their eyes.
27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28¶And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Rom 1
29Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
This how the bible describes those who are not saved . Its a contrast. Not that believers don't sin .
So your one verse has to line up with the many verses I keep saying about being sealed and guaranteed.
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#314
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
#314
throughfaith said:
Ok Mr Galations 5:21 . As I've said we have two options with your one verse . Either " inheritance ' refers to ' rewards or it refers to unbelievers. Many places unbelievers are referenced to as to sinners ( we are all sinners ) certain sins ( ungodly , unrighteous, clouds without water ,wicked , whores , dogs , sons of perdition , )
or they are described like this in Romans 1 and 3
13Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17And the way of peace have they not known:
18There is no fear of God before their eyes.
27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28¶And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Rom 1
29Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
This how the bible describes those who are not saved . Its a contrast. Not that believers don't sin .
So your one verse has to line up with the many verses I keep saying about being sealed and guaranteed.
Click to expand...
Inherit the Kingdom of God

The Kingdom of God is heaven.

If you say It is reward It may, heaven is reward for believer

But murder etc not inherit KD, so not go to heaven

If you say KD not heaven just reward than you have to explain or give more information what is your definition of reward in this context
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#315
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
#315
Guojing said:
We are a spirit, living in an earthly body.

Our spirit is our true identity, and that spirit has eternal life now.
Click to expand...
So does jews spirit.

You say we have eternal life now but not Israel


What do you mean by nation of Israel ?

All jews?
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#316
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#316
Jackson123 said:
So does jews spirit.

You say we have eternal life now but not Israel


What do you mean by nation of Israel ?

All jews?
Click to expand...
The nation Israel is the only nation that God made a covenant with. They were saved corporately so long as they are not cut off from that national covenant.

Now, individual Jews are saved like us, thru the Body of Christ.
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#317
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
#317
Guojing said:
The nation Israel is the only nation that God made a covenant with. They were saved corporately so long as they are not cut off from that national covenant.

Now, individual Jews are saved like us, thru the Body of Christ.
Click to expand...
So you believe the nation of Israel Will go to heaven after It die but we and individual jew have eternal live now?
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#318
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
#318
throughfaith said:
Many places unbelievers are referenced to as to sinners ( we are all sinners ) certain sins ( ungodly , unrighteous, clouds without water ,wicked , whores , dogs , sons of perdition , )
or they are described like this in Romans 1 and 3
Click to expand...
So hal 5:21 is what unbeliever does

Envying, murder, drunkenness etc = what unbeliever do

So If one was Christian and does that, he become unbeliever and not inherit the KD
Not make any different, murder not inherit KD, that say in that verse, don't change the verse
Galatians 5:21
“Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#319
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#319
Jackson123 said:
So you believe the nation of Israel Will go to heaven after It die but we and individual jew have eternal live now?
Click to expand...
If you subscribe to the 7 year Tribulation for the nation Israel, they will be saved when they acknowledged Jesus as their Messiah (Romans 11:25-26)
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#320
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#320
Jackson123 said:
Inherit the Kingdom of God

The Kingdom of God is heaven.

If you say It is reward It may, heaven is reward for believer

But murder etc not inherit KD, so not go to heaven

If you say KD not heaven just reward than you have to explain or give more information what is your definition of reward in this context
Click to expand...
Do we ' inherit '
Jackson123 said:
Inherit the Kingdom of God

The Kingdom of God is heaven.

If you say It is reward It may, heaven is reward for believer

But murder etc not inherit KD, so not go to heaven

If you say KD not heaven just reward than you have to explain or give more information what is your definition of reward in this context
Click to expand...
ok were going round in circles here . The bible is not fighting within self. As I keep saying we have to interpret scripture with scripture. Galation 5 cannot undo The Holy Spirits seal , especially as we are clearly told how long we are seald until ,and there is no conditions placed on Recieving the Holy Spirit but through faith and not works. The bible also says who ever is Justified WILL be glorified. ( Rom 8 . 23 ,28 and onwards . Eph 1.13 , 4.30 , 1.5 .
ect ect ) So let's look at what your saying . You are agreeing that drunkards , liars , adulteres , murderers ( your favourite ) if they are not born again and sealed by the holy Spirit will not go to heaven . I assume also you believe that a person who just s stops murdering , stealing, ect cleans his life up and from that moment on lets just say for arguments sake ,never sins again will he go to heaven ? no and why not ? Because simply by living a good life and doing good is not how a person can go to heaven . They need to recieve Jesus.He is the only way . Yes He has died for their sins 2000 years ago but unless they receive the atonement and are sealed by the Holy Spirit until when ? the day they sin lots ? no until they grieve the Holy Spirit ? No .. what does it say ? UNTIL THE DAY OF REDEMPTION ( THE ADOPTION IN ROMANS 8.23 ) So if a unbeliever who has sinned really badly all his life after he simply believes the Gospel ,recieves Jesus ( John 1.12 ) on Monday, dies on Friday and goes straight to be with Jesus . Why are you saying if a believer who sins badly can't go to heaven . I'm stating the obvious here to help ,but your theology is saying sinners can be saved unless they sin ?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.