JW, Mormons, and the Catholic Church

[williamjordan]

In addition to what I previously wrote, I would also like to comment on the portion where you state,

The the Lord said to me "I don't care which a person believes, and if I don't care, neither should you. It has become an issue for My children to devide over."​

But from comments such as that, it already sounds like we have different Jesus’, because the Jesus of the NT says things like,

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’”​

Now, does that sound like a Jesus who doesn’t care?

 

[samuel23]

The NT usually speaks of God the Father and Jesus His Son and sometimes the Holy Spirit.

 

[williamjordan]

What Saves a person is believing in the Son of God AND Loving One another, whoever (regardless of race, creed, religion, denomination, or any other kind of classification) is accepted by Him.
Catholics believe false doctrines
Mormons believe false doctrines
JW believe false doctrines
Protestants believe false doctrines.

Those who believe in Jesus Christ AND Love One Another, as He commanded. is accepted by Him.



i too have been shown that JW, Catholics, and Mormons, in some cases have a strong love for Jesus Christ.



Nothing wrong with defending brothers and sisters that believe in the Lord Jesus Christ



As you say. God sees the heart of a person. A person either has a heart full of Love or have a selfish heart. There are many here who claim to be Saved, yet believe false doctrines. Its what is in a persons heart that reveals who is in their heart. You will know what is in a persons heart by their fruits, what they DO. If they are Loving One Another, they have the fruits of Jesus living in them, if they NOT Loving One Another, but think selfishly continually, they have darkness inside of them, and how great is that darkness? Even a little bit of darkness will fester and grow even darker, unless that person seeks Christ's Strength and power to overcome that darkness. All flesh loves darkness. But woe to that flesh who claims to be in the light, yet they live in darkness, they think they see, but are blind even now. They think they are Heaven bound, yet a pit awaits them. .. .. If you know there is darkness in you, that is what you need to be getting rid of in your life. Do it now, before it is to late to do it at all.



You will know them by their fruits, for what is in their hearts will be revealed through their actions, their deeds.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

You stated that you had "been shown that JW, Catholics, and Mormons, in some cases have a strong love for Jesus Christ." A JW envisions a different Jesus than that of a Catholic or a Mormon. They may claim to "love" Jesus; however, that so called "love" stems from their beliefs about Jesus. A JW loves Jesus based on their beliefs about Him. They think of Jesus in a very particular light. However, if a JW were shown his error, would he still "love" Jesus? Mormons love their Jesus. JW's love their Jesus. But do you think for a moment that a JW would ever love the Mormon Jesus, or vice versa? They have fallen in love with a Jesus that does not exist.

 

[EvanWood]

Just so you know evan, I would love to address you post but I'm going to defer to william since you are addressing him. I do one to make a couple of comments. Number 1 is what you said here: "Finally one day as I was praying and asking "Lord which is right? Are You all one, are You separate? Is it Trinity or three separate persons?" The the Lord said to me "I don't care which a per*son believes, and if I don't care, neither should you."

This reminds me of what joseph smith said (The founder of Mormonism) in 1828. I think he was in his teen years. He said he was praying and God the Father appeard to him and so did Jesus Christ at the foot of his bed. He ask them what church should he join? The answer he was give was not to join any of them because they are all corrupt.

Now, the first problem with this is the fact that God the Father cannot be seen even according to Jesus Christ Himself at Johm 5:37 and at John 6:46. The second problem and more importantly is the fact that smith ask the wrong question? Joining a church does not save you. You have to be joined to Jesus Christ as your Savior, not the church.

Lastly, and this is my second question you said, "I would like for some one to provide irrefutable proof of the Trinity." Well, what kind of proof would you accept? I can give you the Biblical proof but like I said I will defer to william who I know he knows what he's talking about. PS: evan, you just gave excellent proof to your own question? So what gives?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

I guess you don't believe in prayer? Or that God speaks to people these days?

 

[EvanWood]

I too have delved into the subject quite a lot. For approximately 10 years this has been the primary focus of my studies, so you can imagine that in that span of time I have come across probably every argument there is out there against the pro-Trinitarian position, or at the very least, the pro-Divinity of Jesus proposition. In fact, if I were a betting man, I’d say that in 90-95% of instances, I understand the arguments from the opposing side better than the ones actually making the argument. Up until several years ago, I spoke with Jehovah’s Witnesses on a regular basis through multiple facets.

In order for me to discuss with you texts that are the most compelling, I think a proper understanding of our positions should be in place. You stated that you asked in prayer, “Are You all one, are You separate? Is it Trinity or three separate persons?” But it seems that this question is really quite vague. Perhaps you could elaborate on what you were asking exactly. Your question is phrased in such a way that anyone reading it would think that you are mistaking Trinitarianism for Unitarianism, or vice versa. You make it seem that Trinitarians believe that Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one person. In fact, in an earlier post, it seemed that you were making that same error as you posted texts that spoke of Jesus as being distinct from the Father.

In order to discuss an issue, we both must understand each others positions. However, I question if you accurately understand even the position you claim to hold.

I've never been to seminary so I honestly don't know the definitions to unitarianism or Sabellianism and all that. But in my studies I have found that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are all one God, yet at the same time all 3 are distinct. I honestly can't explain it much better than that. They have to be one yet they have to be 3. My prayer to God came out of the many different views I had been hearing. I'm sure over your years you have heard many different explanations of the Godhead. I can't wrap my head around the concept really. I just know that there has to be a separation of Jesus, the Father, and the Spirit, but at the same time they must be unified as one God. I'm open to any one else definition if you want to give it.

 

[EvanWood]

In addition to what I previously wrote, I would also like to comment on the portion where you state,

The the Lord said to me "I don't care which a person believes, and if I don't care, neither should you. It has become an issue for My children to devide over."​

But from comments such as that, it already sounds like we have different Jesus’, because the Jesus of the NT says things like,

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’”​

Now, does that sound like a Jesus who doesn’t care?

Maybe we do have a different Jesus, I can't decide that. I sometimes like to take that scripture you quoted and couple it with Matthew 25:31-46
31When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

I think it makes for a good compare and contrast. I would also add Matthew 22:37-40

37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38This is the first and greatest commandment.
39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

And then John 13:34,35

34A new commandment I give unto you, that ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
35By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

You could also read Galatians 6:2, 1 Corinthians 13, and the book of 1 John.

 

[bluto]

I guess you don't believe in prayer? Or that God speaks to people these days?

Excuse me, what gave you that idea? Or the idea that God does not speake to people these days? Tell me this, how does God speak to people in any day that it is? God speaks to you through His word. There is absolutly no reason why He has to speak to you in any other way. Telll me, why is not God's word, the Bible not good enough for you?

In fact I take God at His word. Do you know why I know I am saved? 1 John 5:11-12, "And this is the record that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son, vs12, He who has not the Son has not life; he who has not have the Son of God does not have life. I have the Son and I have had the Son for over 5o years so don't tell me I don' have the Son. This is the qulafication that proves I have the Son of God in my life. And to suport this contention please read verses 13 and 14.

Please check yourself and read what I said before you go off the rails and say things you know nothing about. I'm trying to help you here, not to discourage you. I know full well that I may not be gently but my heart is in the right place. I don't mess around because all of this is serious business.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

 

[EvanWood]

In John chapter eight Jesus expounds upon Who He is, claiming He is the I AM, which the religious leaders wanted to stone Him for blasphemy over (since He was equating Himself with God), that He came from heaven, and He says He has said Who He is all along to those who question Him, and that if they do not believe "that I am He," they will die in their sins. This makes believing that Jesus is God a salvation issue. Also, if the Jesus you have talking to you contradicts what He has said in Scripture, do you think you should believe that over what is written?

You make a convincing argument.
My only question is does Jesus have to be God the Father? Or could He be viewed as the Son of God, the Messiah? Or would it have to be God the Son? I guess what I'm really asking is How much would you have to know and how much would you have to have right for salvation?

 

[EvanWood]

Excuse me, what gave you that idea? Or the idea that God does not speake to people these days? Tell me this, how does God speak to people in any day that it is? God speaks to you through His word. There is absolutly no reason why He has to speak to you in any other way. Telll me, why is not God's word, the Bible not good enough for you?

In fact I take God at His word. Do you know why I know I am saved? 1 John 5:11-12, "And this is the record that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son, vs12, He who has not the Son has not life; he who has not have the Son of God does not have life. I have the Son and I have had the Son for over 5o years so don't tell me I don' have the Son. This is the qulafication that proves I have the Son of God in my life. And to suport this contention please read verses 13 and 14.

Please check yourself and read what I said before you go off the rails and say things you know nothing about. I'm trying to help you here, not to discourage you. I know full well that I may not be gently but my heart is in the right place. I don't mess around because all of this is serious business.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

Im not questioning your salvation. Calm down. God definitely speaks to us through His Word, but he also speaks to us through His Spirit. In fact the Lord can speak to us in many different ways. He make speak through another Christian. He may speak to you in a vision or a dream, or even directly to your spirit. Of course you must use discernment and test everything according to His written word, the Bible.

You are right about one thing there is no reason He has to speak to us another way, His word IS enough. Yet it pleases the Lord to have a personal two way relationship with us. Isn't God good.

Just so you know I am sorry if I came off rude. Wasn't my intention. I appreciate your concern.

 

[williamjordan]

You make a convincing argument.
My only question is does Jesus have to be God the Father? Or could He be viewed as the Son of God, the Messiah? Or would it have to be God the Son? I guess what I'm really asking is How much would you have to know and how much would you have to have right for salvation?

You posted in a previous statement that you had never been to seminary, so you could not define Unitarianism (however, I actually did the foot work for you, and defined it for you in post #174). However, this post which I am responding to actually answers the question that I posed to you. You ask, "does Jesus have to be God the Father? Or could He be viewed as the Son of God, the Messiah?"

When you pose a question such as above, it only shows that you don't understand the position you claim to hold. No Trinitarian believes Jesus to be God the Father. As I initially stated, you are mistaking Trinitarianism for Modalism/Sabellianism.

You must understand the position before you can attempt to criticize it, even if it is from another angle.

 

[EvanWood]

You posted in a previous statement that you had never been to seminary, so you could not define Unitarianism (however, I actually did the foot work for you, and defined it for you in post #174). However, this post which I am responding to actually answers the question that I posed to you. You ask, "does Jesus have to be God the Father? Or could He be viewed as the Son of God, the Messiah?"

When you pose a question such as above, it only shows that you don't understand the position you claim to hold. No Trinitarian believes Jesus to be God the Father. As I initially stated, you are mistaking Trinitarianism for Modalism/Sabellianism.

You must understand the position before you can attempt to criticize it, even if it is from another angle.

You left our where I asked if he had to be God the Son. And I'm not criticizing a view of the Godhead but rather the idea that you are condemned if you don't believe the right view on the Godhead. I understand that the difference. I simply posed a 3 part question on 3 different views. The first 2 of which many on here believe will send a person to hell. Or at least that's what it sounds like. To be fair scripture refers to Jesus as "Everlasting Father" and "Messiah" and the "Son of God"

Why do you try to pick apart my questions to prove me wrong on my beliefs. Why not read what I actually wrote on the Godhead?

P.S. Have you ever been on any of the Church Watch websites? Just wondering?

 

[bluto]

You left our where I asked if he had to be God the Son. And I'm not criticizing a view of the Godhead but rather the idea that you are condemned if you don't believe the right view on the Godhead. I understand that the difference. I simply posed a 3 part question on 3 different views. The first 2 of which many on here believe will send a person to hell. Or at least that's what it sounds like. To be fair scripture refers to Jesus as "Everlasting Father" and "Messiah" and the "Son of God"

Why do you try to pick apart my questions to prove me wrong on my beliefs. Why not read what I actually wrote on the Godhead?

P.S. Have you ever been on any of the Church Watch websites? Just wondering?

What are "Church Watch websites" evan? And what is the right view of the Godhead as opposed to the wrong view of the Godhead? Please explain?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

 

[Depleted]

You show me some scripture in the writings of the new testament on the subject of the Trinity. They confronted many false teachings but I don't remember any of them explaining the Trinity. It takes a deeper study to find the answer. I would like for some one to provide irrefutable proof of the Trinity.

Honestly? I'd like someone to give me a deeper, irrefutable proof of all of scripture. Then again, if I'm not willing to put in the effort myself, exactly how interested am I in the God the bible speaks of?

I am married. I have made it my mission to read hubby so I can cater to his needs, (when he lets me lol), because that's how I show love. What would it say about my love for him if I asked others to teach me how to read him?

What is this saying about you that you want others to do the work for you?

Early on, I gave you a list of scriptures that talk about the Trinity. I knew about that list because I've studied the Trinity. It's still a mess for me. I accept it, but not because I grew up with it, as you said. I accept it because even though I don't know how it works, I know something of how it doesn't work.

It's not one dude putting on different uniforms. It's not one of three leafs in a clover (shamrock.) It's not a father poofing himself into a son and then spiriting away. It's not a person/homo sapien. How do I know this? Because I did NOT ask others to do my reading for me. I did the work to please God my Husband. To learn about him. to see what I can do for him. (Actually, he has never needed me to do his dishes or get him a coffee. lol) I came to the conclusion that we don't get an exact look at who God is anymore than Moses or John did. (The only two people in the Bible that I recall who had a meeting with God and told what they saw. They saw the same thing. They saw God and yet could only describe the blue rock he was standing on. Couldn't even describe his feet. Just what he was standing on.) But it is clear hie is three-in-one. Not merely one with two other uniforms/leaves/flesh-and-blood-counterparts. Not a three-person cabinet/meeting of the minds. Three-in-One.

So, yeah? Really? I find it rather annoying that you keep insisting others do your work for you. If you marry and then go off to your normal life minus the spouse, you're also not really married, even if you have others check in on the spouse occasionally.

 

[Depleted]

What Saves a person is believing in the Son of God AND Loving One another, whoever (regardless of race, creed, religion, denomination, or any other kind of classification) is accepted by Him.
Catholics believe false doctrines
Mormons believe false doctrines
JW believe false doctrines
Protestants believe false doctrines.

Those who believe in Jesus Christ AND Love One Another, as He commanded. is accepted by Him.



i too have been shown that JW, Catholics, and Mormons, in some cases have a strong love for Jesus Christ.



Nothing wrong with defending brothers and sisters that believe in the Lord Jesus Christ



As you say. God sees the heart of a person. A person either has a heart full of Love or have a selfish heart. There are many here who claim to be Saved, yet believe false doctrines. Its what is in a persons heart that reveals who is in their heart. You will know what is in a persons heart by their fruits, what they DO. If they are Loving One Another, they have the fruits of Jesus living in them, if they NOT Loving One Another, but think selfishly continually, they have darkness inside of them, and how great is that darkness? Even a little bit of darkness will fester and grow even darker, unless that person seeks Christ's Strength and power to overcome that darkness. All flesh loves darkness. But woe to that flesh who claims to be in the light, yet they live in darkness, they think they see, but are blind even now. They think they are Heaven bound, yet a pit awaits them. .. .. If you know there is darkness in you, that is what you need to be getting rid of in your life. Do it now, before it is to late to do it at all.



You will know them by their fruits, for what is in their hearts will be revealed through their actions, their deeds.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

What saves people isn't a "what," He's a "who." His name is Jesus. We do not get salvation by belief. We get salvation and then believe. We do not earn it. Jesus did.

 

[EvanWood]

Honestly? I'd like someone to give me a deeper, irrefutable proof of all of scripture. Then again, if I'm not willing to put in the effort myself, exactly how interested am I in the God the bible speaks of?

I am married. I have made it my mission to read hubby so I can cater to his needs, (when he lets me lol), because that's how I show love. What would it say about my love for him if I asked others to teach me how to read him?

What is this saying about you that you want others to do the work for you?

Early on, I gave you a list of scriptures that talk about the Trinity. I knew about that list because I've studied the Trinity. It's still a mess for me. I accept it, but not because I grew up with it, as you said. I accept it because even though I don't know how it works, I know something of how it doesn't work.

It's not one dude putting on different uniforms. It's not one of three leafs in a clover (shamrock.) It's not a father poofing himself into a son and then spiriting away. It's not a person/homo sapien. How do I know this? Because I did NOT ask others to do my reading for me. I did the work to please God my Husband. To learn about him. to see what I can do for him. (Actually, he has never needed me to do his dishes or get him a coffee. lol) I came to the conclusion that we don't get an exact look at who God is anymore than Moses or John did. (The only two people in the Bible that I recall who had a meeting with God and told what they saw. They saw the same thing. They saw God and yet could only describe the blue rock he was standing on. Couldn't even describe his feet. Just what he was standing on.) But it is clear hie is three-in-one. Not merely one with two other uniforms/leaves/flesh-and-blood-counterparts. Not a three-person cabinet/meeting of the minds. Three-in-One.

So, yeah? Really? I find it rather annoying that you keep insisting others do your work for you. If you marry and then go off to your normal life minus the spouse, you're also not really married, even if you have others check in on the spouse occasionally.

That's the problem with these online chat rooms always combative. And suggesting that I'm having others doing my "homework" I ask these questions for other because the more you study the nature of the godhead the more you'll realize you don't understand as you have stated yourself that you do not get an "exact look" and if you cannot fully understand the Godhead yourself how can you condemn others for not understanding it

 

[EvanWood]

What saves people isn't a "what," He's a "who." His name is Jesus. We do not get salvation by belief. We get salvation and then believe. We do not earn it. Jesus did.

So would you like to correct Paul when he says that we are saved by grace through faith? Or when the Roman guard asked what must I do to be saved and they answered believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved or how about Jesus when he says those that believe in me shall have everlasting life? I'm starting to think people are just trying to argue

 

[EvanWood]

What are "Church Watch websites" evan? And what is the right view of the Godhead as opposed to the wrong view of the Godhead? Please explain?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

Im not trying to change anyone's view on the Godhead nor am I claiming one to be right or wrong. Have you even been reading my post? It's about judging and condemning. "If you believe such and such you're not saved" My point in all this is you can provide scripture to support many different views on many different subjects. what's required for salvation is faith in Jesus and He says if you accept Him you accept the Father and are accepted by the Father. The Bible never says you must believe in the Trinity.

Church watch websites are site where "christians" make the websites totally devoted to bashing other professing "christians"

 

[DiscipleDave]

Originally Posted by DiscipleDave

What Saves a person is believing in the Son of God AND Loving One another, whoever (regardless of race, creed, religion, denomination, or any other kind of classification) is accepted by Him.
Catholics believe false doctrines
Mormons believe false doctrines
JW believe false doctrines
Protestants believe false doctrines.

Those who believe in Jesus Christ AND Love One Another, as He commanded. is accepted by Him.



i too have been shown that JW, Catholics, and Mormons, in some cases have a strong love for Jesus Christ.



Nothing wrong with defending brothers and sisters that believe in the Lord Jesus Christ



As you say. God sees the heart of a person. A person either has a heart full of Love or have a selfish heart. There are many here who claim to be Saved, yet believe false doctrines. Its what is in a persons heart that reveals who is in their heart. You will know what is in a persons heart by their fruits, what they DO. If they are Loving One Another, they have the fruits of Jesus living in them, if they NOT Loving One Another, but think selfishly continually, they have darkness inside of them, and how great is that darkness? Even a little bit of darkness will fester and grow even darker, unless that person seeks Christ's Strength and power to overcome that darkness. All flesh loves darkness. But woe to that flesh who claims to be in the light, yet they live in darkness, they think they see, but are blind even now. They think they are Heaven bound, yet a pit awaits them. .. .. If you know there is darkness in you, that is what you need to be getting rid of in your life. Do it now, before it is to late to do it at all.



You will know them by their fruits, for what is in their hearts will be revealed through their actions, their deeds.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

You stated that you had "been shown that JW, Catholics, and Mormons, in some cases have a strong love for Jesus Christ."

Yes, i have personally met people from each of these, and some of them have a strong Love for Jesus Christ, more so than many other protestant people that i have met who claim to love Jesus too.

A JW envisions a different Jesus than that of a Catholic or a Mormon.

This is YOUR opinion, yes? There is no way you can speak for ALL JW, Catholics, and Mormons. You can't possibly KNOW that they envision a different Jesus. This is YOUR opinion that they do that. Also you may have spoke with or met JW, Catholics, or Mormons that did envision a different Jesus as you are describing. But you can't base their entire religion on what a few people in that religion believe or don't believe. If that were the case, and i judge all Christians in the Faith according to the a few of the Christians on these boards, well then i would also have a very bad outlook towards all Christians. And would be able to say, as you do, Christians are name calling, unloving, false doctrine believers. God forbid.

They may claim to "love" Jesus; however, that so called "love" stems from their beliefs about Jesus.

Again, your opinion. i have talked with JW, Catholics, and Mormons. and they all plainly testify that their love for Jesus comes from the Word of God. They read the same Bible you do. True, they have added to the Bible extra books, and extra testaments of Jesus Christ, which is a false. Which is nothing more than Christians of the last day generation do also, by adding their own interpretations to the Word of God that they have.

A JW loves Jesus based on their beliefs about Him.

Everyone who loves Jesus, Loves Him based on what they believe about Him, Christians included.

They think of Jesus in a very particular light.

Are you speaking for all of them, or did you come up with this based on actually meeting some of them? OR do you come up with this, because you have judged them to be a particular light, that you disagree with?

However, if a JW were shown his error, would he still "love" Jesus? Mormons love their Jesus. JW's love their Jesus.

Christians love their Jesus.

But do you think for a moment that a JW would ever love the Mormon Jesus, or vice versa? They have fallen in love with a Jesus that does not exist.

The Same Jesus that you heard about (From the Word of God) is the exact same Jesus where they learned about Jesus in the Word of God. You seem to think they do not believe the very Word of God that we have also. Christians, JW, Catholics, and Mormons all learned that Jesus healed the sick and made the blind see. All of them, Christians, JW, Catholics, and Mormons ALL learned this by and through the very Word of God that you too. What makes these particular beliefs different, is the not only believe the Word of God, but they also believe that other writings are the Word of God as well, of coarse that is in error. But to say they believe in a different Jesus than you do, is not correct. For the same way YOU learned about Jesus from the Word of God, is how they also learned about Jesus through the Word of God.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[DiscipleDave]

I've never been to seminary so I honestly don't know the definitions to unitarianism or Sabellianism and all that. But in my studies I have found that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are all one God, yet at the same time all 3 are distinct. I honestly can't explain it much better than that. They have to be one yet they have to be 3. My prayer to God came out of the many different views I had been hearing. I'm sure over your years you have heard many different explanations of the Godhead. I can't wrap my head around the concept really. I just know that there has to be a separation of Jesus, the Father, and the Spirit, but at the same time they must be unified as one God. I'm open to any one else definition if you want to give it.

Scritpures, interprets Scriptures. God gave us an example, so that we could better understand, what people call the Trinity.
A husband and wife are no longer twain, but ONE flesh. Understand how a Husband and a Wife are ONE. Then you can understand how the Father, Jesus the Son, and Holy Ghost, ARE ONE. Is it not also written that we, us Christians, are ONE with them? Yes that is written. If then i am ONE with the Father and ONE with Jesus. Does that make me God? Scriptures also teach the Church is ONE body. How simple has the Word of God laid it out for us so we can easily understand, how the Father and the Son, Jesus and the Holy Ghost are ONE, even though they are separate. Scriptures plainly teaches us how this is so. But leave it to satan to confound the children of God. Believe Scriptures NOT what men teach.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[DiscipleDave]

What saves people isn't a "what," He's a "who." His name is Jesus. We do not get salvation by belief. We get salvation and then believe. We do not earn it. Jesus did.

You can't accept Jesus Christ without first believing He is Christ. You say "We do not get salvation by belief" is not correct. A person must first believe that He is Christ, BEFORE they can accept Him as Christ.

Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

NOBODY calls upon the name of the Lord, which does not believe He is the LORD. A person must first believe He is the Lord, before they will call upon the Lord and then BE SAVED.

Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? (Exactly, So you MUST first believe) and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

What saves people isn't a "what," He's a "who." His name is Jesus. We do not get salvation by belief. We get salvation and then believe. We do not earn it. Jesus did.

Who said you earn it? i didn't.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave