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A
I don't say, the internet says. Trying to find transcript but couldn't.
Did locate this:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...TxPJafysRPvtZ3oBw&sig2=IpQdwU0kB9ptP3EbnBCISg
Doesn't really make me want to hear his other sermons.
Did locate this:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...TxPJafysRPvtZ3oBw&sig2=IpQdwU0kB9ptP3EbnBCISg
Doesn't really make me want to hear his other sermons.
A
Galatians 3 v. 13
"14 scriptural proofs that healing is the will of God for us today"
He says that "if you stop right there you never know what Christ redeemed us from...some people say sin but THE BIBLE DOESNT SAY THAT. Christ actually says spiritual death which is the cause of sin."
That statement is a lie. The Bible both says that Christ redeemed us from our sins and that death does not cause sin but sin causes spiritual death.
It's basics and he twists other scripture. So much so it's painful to listen too.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=EJmWDNCthNU
Paused at 3min22 seconds to post this...
Started at 2min38sec
"14 scriptural proofs that healing is the will of God for us today"
He says that "if you stop right there you never know what Christ redeemed us from...some people say sin but THE BIBLE DOESNT SAY THAT. Christ actually says spiritual death which is the cause of sin."
That statement is a lie. The Bible both says that Christ redeemed us from our sins and that death does not cause sin but sin causes spiritual death.
It's basics and he twists other scripture. So much so it's painful to listen too.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=EJmWDNCthNU
Paused at 3min22 seconds to post this...
Started at 2min38sec
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C
Galatians 3:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE"—
Not sure where in the bible it specifically says Christ redeemed us from our sins. Yes Jesus died for our sins but the actual word redeemed us from our sins; I can't find it. Only in Galatians do I see and that is what he is talking about.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE"—
Not sure where in the bible it specifically says Christ redeemed us from our sins. Yes Jesus died for our sins but the actual word redeemed us from our sins; I can't find it. Only in Galatians do I see and that is what he is talking about.
A
Galatians 3
10 For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be every one who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, and do them.” 11 Now it is evident that no man is justified before God by the law; for “He who through faith is righteous shall live”; 12 but the law does not rest on faith, for “He who does them shall live by them.” 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed be every one who hangs on a tree”— 14 that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
***
This passage isn't about physical healing.
The "promise of the spirit" is not a promise of physical health but to receive the Holy spirit.
The curse of the law is not illness but the fact no one can meet it and all are judged sinners.
If we didn't have Jesus, we would be condemned.
......I am just....in shock.
I am sorry but I can't spend time listening to someone who can twist scripture in that manner.
We can discuss what you believe Galatians 3 is about, but....aaah, now I feel the need to read the whole book of Galatians again. Just to wash my brain out.
10 For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be every one who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, and do them.” 11 Now it is evident that no man is justified before God by the law; for “He who through faith is righteous shall live”; 12 but the law does not rest on faith, for “He who does them shall live by them.” 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed be every one who hangs on a tree”— 14 that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
***
This passage isn't about physical healing.
The "promise of the spirit" is not a promise of physical health but to receive the Holy spirit.
The curse of the law is not illness but the fact no one can meet it and all are judged sinners.
If we didn't have Jesus, we would be condemned.
......I am just....in shock.
I am sorry but I can't spend time listening to someone who can twist scripture in that manner.
We can discuss what you believe Galatians 3 is about, but....aaah, now I feel the need to read the whole book of Galatians again. Just to wash my brain out.
C
Not sure what part you are saying he is twisting. You are claiming the bible states "The Bible both says that Christ redeemed us from our sins and that death does not cause sin but sin causes spiritual death." I don't find anywhere in scripture that says Christ redeemed us from our sins. This is what he was commenting on. Maybe the bible does and I'm just missing it.
A
10 For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be every one who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, and do them.” 11 Now it is evident that no man is justified before God by the law; for “He who through faith is righteous shall live”; 12 but the law does not rest on faith, for “He who does them shall live by them.” 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed be every one who hangs on a tree”— 14 that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Ephesians 1:7
In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace
Titus 2:14
who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds.
Colossians 1:13-14
For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
Romans 3:23-25
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed;
Hebrews 9:15
For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.
Ephesians 1:7
In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace
Titus 2:14
who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds.
Colossians 1:13-14
For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
Romans 3:23-25
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed;
Hebrews 9:15
For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.
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A
The Bible says the "curse of the law" which I believe means trying to please God by our own obedience instead of faith.
Hagan says the curse of the law is physical illness.(he goes back to deuteronomy as his proof text.)
Also he claims that death causes sin when the bible shows that it is sin that causes death.
Hagan says the curse of the law is physical illness.(he goes back to deuteronomy as his proof text.)
Also he claims that death causes sin when the bible shows that it is sin that causes death.
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C
I found in the sermon where he talks about it. There are some things he says that I don't agree with and I believe the bible disagrees with. This is the first time listening to him and not quite sure how to take him. You know, I haven't found one minister that I 100% agree with when it comes to scripture. I guess it comes down to what can we tolerate and if we can somehow see their side of what they are trying to say lol
Hagin, Gossett, Roberts, Osborn, Cerrilo, Quimby, Capps, Copeland, Hinn are pretty much the ones that made of WoF popular, the pioneers are F. F. Bosworth, Smith Wigglesworth, Phinias Quimby, John G. Lake, William Branham. They were more into the miracles and healing then the money. I was a big follower of them, I've read book by all of them except Quimby, Wigglesworth used to punch people in the stomach if they needed a healing for the stomach. But they all were influenced by E. W. Kenyon who was a eastern metaphysical guy, he wrote a book, "The Bible In The light of Our Redemption", which I thought was an awesome book, so I ordered "Advanced Bible Course: Studies in the Deeper Life", "Jesus the Healer" and "From the Cross to the Throne". I noticed some questionable things, but I just thought I'm a new Christian so that's probably why I don't understand it. Then I read, from the cross to the throne, to my Lord, that book caused me to look at WoF in a different light, Kenyon is the one that promoted the "born again Jesus" it's the ides that Jesus was a slave to satan and in hell He became born again and received power to conquer satan and go to heaven to be at the right hand of God.
I was in the Pentecostal movement then and was really into all of that. I special ordered all those books, except for the Wigglesworth and Bosworth books they were in the Christian book store back then. I thought the Wigglesworth was weird but just thought he had great faith. Honestly Bosworth, Lake and Branham's books were okay, not that bad. As a matter of fact, all of those guys, the pioneers are on sermon index, along with Reformed and Calvinist speakers, Chuck Smith, Ravenhill, Redpath, Tozer and the like. E. W. Kenyon was the promoter of the trinity with-in the Trinity, yes the Father has a body, soul and spirit, as well as the Son and the Holy Spirit.
I'm sure everyone has seen the Robert Tilton video of him saying satan gave me this message, then he said I shouldn't of said that. When you boil it all down they quote Scripture out of context and make up Greek and Hebrew meanings of words. If they find one that does seem like it has something to do with prosperity they will run it into the ground. I came to the conclusion that if it's faith that makes you rich by sowing seed (money) and God will bless you 10 fold or 100 fold. If they really believed that and it was true, they would be giving money to people instead of asking for it. Think about it if they gave out a million bucks, they could receive 10 or 100 million back. But it's a scam. I have an uncle that an assistant pastor at a WoF church and he knows zip about the Word of God. He still talks like we used to when we first became believers. We were talking one day and out o the blue, he says Holy Ghost. What?
Sometimes I wish I would of kept all those books that I read as I was growing in God's grace. I had WoF, dispensational, hyper-dispensational, Pentecostal, hyper-Pentecostal. I still have lots of the Pentecostal book still.
As far as the new WoF like Joel goes they are all part of the apostasy of the faith, Warren and many other groups are falling in, I will always recommend a Calvary Chapel to someone, but lately lots of those guys are going the ways of the inspirational speaker rather than teaching the Bible, like they used to.
I was in the Pentecostal movement then and was really into all of that. I special ordered all those books, except for the Wigglesworth and Bosworth books they were in the Christian book store back then. I thought the Wigglesworth was weird but just thought he had great faith. Honestly Bosworth, Lake and Branham's books were okay, not that bad. As a matter of fact, all of those guys, the pioneers are on sermon index, along with Reformed and Calvinist speakers, Chuck Smith, Ravenhill, Redpath, Tozer and the like. E. W. Kenyon was the promoter of the trinity with-in the Trinity, yes the Father has a body, soul and spirit, as well as the Son and the Holy Spirit.
I'm sure everyone has seen the Robert Tilton video of him saying satan gave me this message, then he said I shouldn't of said that. When you boil it all down they quote Scripture out of context and make up Greek and Hebrew meanings of words. If they find one that does seem like it has something to do with prosperity they will run it into the ground. I came to the conclusion that if it's faith that makes you rich by sowing seed (money) and God will bless you 10 fold or 100 fold. If they really believed that and it was true, they would be giving money to people instead of asking for it. Think about it if they gave out a million bucks, they could receive 10 or 100 million back. But it's a scam. I have an uncle that an assistant pastor at a WoF church and he knows zip about the Word of God. He still talks like we used to when we first became believers. We were talking one day and out o the blue, he says Holy Ghost. What?
Sometimes I wish I would of kept all those books that I read as I was growing in God's grace. I had WoF, dispensational, hyper-dispensational, Pentecostal, hyper-Pentecostal. I still have lots of the Pentecostal book still.
As far as the new WoF like Joel goes they are all part of the apostasy of the faith, Warren and many other groups are falling in, I will always recommend a Calvary Chapel to someone, but lately lots of those guys are going the ways of the inspirational speaker rather than teaching the Bible, like they used to.
This 5 minute clip won't make you want to change your mind either, as it shouldn't. Run far away from these nutjobs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2V7KbbfRHA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2V7KbbfRHA
Personally I believe that some modern day evangelical beliefs are all mis-representing the Father and the work of the Lord Jesus Christ.
On one end of the same tree we have those that say being in poverty is God making us humble - then we have those that say God makes us sick to teach us things or the equally abhorrent belief that God "allows" it so He can be glorified.
That is like saying a parent "allows" someone to bring a disease on purpose on their child so that the parent can be seen by others "how good they are". That is a "sick parent" and a "sick god".
We would throw people in jail for such behavior. And yet - we somehow have more righteous moral beliefs then God does. Where do we even get this moral outrage from? - God of course - and yet we ascribe this horrible attribute to our loving Father.
I firmly believe that we are going to be horrified of the thoughts we had towards our good, loving Father when we stand before Him and see Him for who He truly is. He will wipe every one of our tears away with His loving hands.
Then we have those on the other side of the tree that say "God wants us to all be millionaires and have the biggest house in the city - live the American dream".
God says that He delights in the prosperity of His children and how He chooses to display that prosperity is up to Him. God's definition of being "rich" is an abundance to take care of things in our family with plenty left over to abound to every good work to be a blessing to others. It's the way of the kingdom of God. There is never any lack.
The term "rich" means "full supply".
Then there are those that condemn people that are sick and we can be like Job's buddies and accuse them of all kinds of nonsense. We need to have compassion on those that are sick in this world and walk with them with the faith that they do have - not to beat them up for not getting things the way that we think it should manifest in their lives and in what timing.
The truth is some of us don't have the faith to bring what grace has already provided for us in Christ. There are many areas that I simply don't have the faith for now in my life. I recognize it for what it is and I don't blame others because they do have faith in that area that I don't.
There is a way to encourage others to believe God without condemning them or believing they are condemning us just because they are speaking the truth. There are 2 sides to that tree too.
The real truth is - faith or the lack of faith was talked about by Jesus many times where He said they had little faith. Is Jesus now attacking the emotions of those that don't have faith? Or is He simply showing where their lack is and knowing this deficiency can make them pursue Him as He is the truth.
Some of us modern day believers would be ripping the Lord Jesus apart for His talks to people both corporately and individuals on having no and little faith.
We are to encourage each other in where ever we are at and not bite and devour each other because we believe differently on a subject. None of us know things as we ought to know them says Paul - but let's stop this biting and devouring each other and walk in where each of us are at now in our own walk with the Lord.
Speak of the love and grace of our Lord and the nutrients we need will be brought to us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus Christ. We are to fix our hope completely on the grace that comes with the hearing and seeing of Jesus. 1 Peter 1:13
These 2 principles remain true for all of us.
Romans 14:4 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
Romans 14:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves.
On one end of the same tree we have those that say being in poverty is God making us humble - then we have those that say God makes us sick to teach us things or the equally abhorrent belief that God "allows" it so He can be glorified.
That is like saying a parent "allows" someone to bring a disease on purpose on their child so that the parent can be seen by others "how good they are". That is a "sick parent" and a "sick god".
We would throw people in jail for such behavior. And yet - we somehow have more righteous moral beliefs then God does. Where do we even get this moral outrage from? - God of course - and yet we ascribe this horrible attribute to our loving Father.
I firmly believe that we are going to be horrified of the thoughts we had towards our good, loving Father when we stand before Him and see Him for who He truly is. He will wipe every one of our tears away with His loving hands.
Then we have those on the other side of the tree that say "God wants us to all be millionaires and have the biggest house in the city - live the American dream".
God says that He delights in the prosperity of His children and how He chooses to display that prosperity is up to Him. God's definition of being "rich" is an abundance to take care of things in our family with plenty left over to abound to every good work to be a blessing to others. It's the way of the kingdom of God. There is never any lack.
The term "rich" means "full supply".
Then there are those that condemn people that are sick and we can be like Job's buddies and accuse them of all kinds of nonsense. We need to have compassion on those that are sick in this world and walk with them with the faith that they do have - not to beat them up for not getting things the way that we think it should manifest in their lives and in what timing.
The truth is some of us don't have the faith to bring what grace has already provided for us in Christ. There are many areas that I simply don't have the faith for now in my life. I recognize it for what it is and I don't blame others because they do have faith in that area that I don't.
There is a way to encourage others to believe God without condemning them or believing they are condemning us just because they are speaking the truth. There are 2 sides to that tree too.
The real truth is - faith or the lack of faith was talked about by Jesus many times where He said they had little faith. Is Jesus now attacking the emotions of those that don't have faith? Or is He simply showing where their lack is and knowing this deficiency can make them pursue Him as He is the truth.
Some of us modern day believers would be ripping the Lord Jesus apart for His talks to people both corporately and individuals on having no and little faith.
We are to encourage each other in where ever we are at and not bite and devour each other because we believe differently on a subject. None of us know things as we ought to know them says Paul - but let's stop this biting and devouring each other and walk in where each of us are at now in our own walk with the Lord.
Speak of the love and grace of our Lord and the nutrients we need will be brought to us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus Christ. We are to fix our hope completely on the grace that comes with the hearing and seeing of Jesus. 1 Peter 1:13
These 2 principles remain true for all of us.
Romans 14:4 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
Romans 14:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves.
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