Kenneth Hagin and the prosperity gospel

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#41
Maybe a silly question, but I am thinking about this for a while (when I see various threads about specific teachers):

Why do people need to follow contemporary teachers, tv preachers, authors etc?

Why the Bible, reformation and some creeds are not enough? What "else" or "new" do you expect to learn from todays teachers that is not present in the Christianity from the beginning?

Why do you need somebody´s sermons to tell you what is or is not in the Bible?

And I mean this generally, not just to Ariel or about Kenneth Hagin.
 
Last edited:
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
#42
Maybe a silly question, but I am thinking about this for a while (when I see various threads about specific teachers):

Why do people need to follow contemporary teachers, tv preachers, authors etc?

Why the Bible, reformation and some creeds are not enough? What "else" or "new" do you expect to learn from todays teachers that is not present in the Christianity from the beginning?

Why do you need somebody´s sermons to tell you what is or is not in the Bible?

And I mean this generally, not just to Ariel or about Kenneth Hagin.
I agree....although God has set teachers in the church for us to learn by but the Holy Spirit is the one who reveals the things of Christ to us. We could read the scriptures for 60 years and still not see Christ in them.

I find I get something from one teacher and something else from another and let the Holy Spirit piece it all together. I don't believe everything that any preacher or denomination says.

One of the things that I did learn from Kenneth Hagin ( I have seen him personally back in the late 70's ) was this bit of wisdom.

He said that some one asked him what he believed about the end times and he said this back to them: " I can tell you what I believe about the end times but I can't tell you whether it is true or not. The Lord has sent me to teach on faith and how to be led by the Spirit of God in our every day lives. That is my calling and I have more revelation that I know is true on those subjects then I do on any other."

I admire that kind of honesty and truth. Each of us have our own calling and the Holy Spirit confirms that calling within us.

Sometimes we can go on a "witch/heretic hunt" and we think it's the Spirit leading us but it is our own flesh and malice we can have towards some one that has a different view on some subject then we do.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#43
I agree....although God has set teachers in the church for us to learn...
I would even say it is about the local church or about teaching the church in its beginnings, when the Bible was being written yet.

We really do not need any teacher today to tell us what we should think or do. We have enough sources already.

Some teacher for the local church to preach from the pulpit? Ok.

To follow somebody in his teaching like if he was revealing something we cannot figure out for ourselves? I do not think so.

It brings so much problems and confusion today. One teacher contradicts other ones, so many branches of Christianity with its own teachers... blah, better to ignore them all and use the sources we already have, imho.
 
Last edited:
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
#44
I would even say it is about the local church or about teaching the church in its beginnings, when the Bible was being written yet.

We really do not need any teacher today to tell us what we should think or do. We have enough sources already.

Some teacher for the local church to preach from the pulpit? Ok.

To follow somebody in his teaching like if he was revealing something we cannot figure out for ourselves? I do not think so.

It brings so much problems and confusion today. One teacher contradicts other ones, so many branches of Christianity with its own teachers... blah, better to ignore them all and use the sources we already have, imho.

I believe that a teacher should confirm what the Spirit is witnessing to in our own spirits. God still uses today teachers who are imperfect just like the rest of us. The old saying still holds true : "Chew on the hay and spit out the sticks".

There is no teacher from any denomination or "camp" that knows things the way we ought to know them.

Of course we still need teachers today in the body of Christ. We are not mature yet as Paul says the purpose of the 5-fold ministry is for the body to grow. Eph and 1 Cor.
 
Last edited:
A

Ariel82

Guest
#45
I found in the sermon where he talks about it. There are some things he says that I don't agree with and I believe the bible disagrees with. This is the first time listening to him and not quite sure how to take him. You know, I haven't found one minister that I 100% agree with when it comes to scripture. I guess it comes down to what can we tolerate and if we can somehow see their side of what they are trying to say lol
I agree. If we look we can always find at least one thing we don't agree with concerning anyone.

I just don't like feeling ignorant when people talk about topics or basing my conclusions on the opinion of someone else.

So I thought, here is a thread I can do my own research and discuss what I find.

Just woke up and only have a few minutes before the task of today take over.

Truthfully I couldn't stomach much of the video, so if someone with more understanding of what he meant wants to pipe in, I will listen.

At the end of the video,he talks about a medical "Dr" turn Faith healer who uses the two verses he quotes at the beginning of his sermon.

Which shows me he is basing his healing "ministry" in the words of another person.

He links Galatians 3 with Deutoronomy 28 and concluded that the "curse of the law" refers to physical illness.

I think it's wrong. It will take me some time to expound why, show scriptures, etc.

I think this "teaching" that says God redeemed people to,be physically healthy can cause new Christians to doubt their faith and/or God when they are not healed.

I believe this doctrine is unbiblically sound and harmful to,the body of Christ.

Give me some time and I will try and clearly post why.

I also believe that Hagin posted some good things in his sermon that could really bless others (which I can post if needed). However, this doctrine...not good.

So I really want this thread to address doctrines and what he says, not what others say he says.,,

But open forum, so we will see how it goes.

Going to read responses quickly and go do my morning routine,
 
B

BeyondET

Guest
#46
It's good that God can wash dirty sinners clean in His blood.

I guess I will start here...

Kenneth Hagin's Sermons
Thanks for the post, not a bad sermon on having strong faith.. Ken spoke on the woman who touch Jesus garment, the two blind men, the wealhy mans child, strong faith is important I think.. :)

Could have even touched on the ( while sitting under the fig tree) :)

[video=youtube;hP9rBDYYFvw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=hP9rBDYYFvw[/video]
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
#47
Here is one from Hagin that talks about being led by the Holy Spirit in our every day lives. IMO - There are many good things for us to learn from this.

[video=youtube;C1fJhsRWP2s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1fJhsRWP2s[/video]
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#48
Thanks Johnny B, have not read and don't plan to read those guys any time soon, but I listen to audio sermons while cleaning, so maybe if I feel brave I will listen to them.

word of faith Sermons | SermonAudio.com
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#49
Personally I believe that some modern day evangelical beliefs are all mis-representing the Father and the work of the Lord Jesus Christ.

On one end of the same tree we have those that say being in poverty is God making us humble - then we have those that say God makes us sick to teach us things or the equally abhorrent belief that God "allows" it so He can be glorified.

That is like saying a parent "allows" someone to bring a disease on purpose on their child so that the parent can be seen by others "how good they are". That is a "sick parent" and a "sick god".

We would throw people in jail for such behavior. And yet - we somehow have more righteous moral beliefs then God does. Where do we even get this moral outrage from? - God of course - and yet we ascribe this horrible attribute to our loving Father.

I firmly believe that we are going to be horrified of the thoughts we had towards our good, loving Father when we stand before Him and see Him for who He truly is. He will wipe every one of our tears away with His loving hands.

Then we have those on the other side of the tree that say "God wants us to all be millionaires and have the biggest house in the city - live the American dream".

God says that He delights in the prosperity of His children and how He chooses to display that prosperity is up to Him. God's definition of being "rich" is an abundance to take care of things in our family with plenty left over to abound to every good work to be a blessing to others. It's the way of the kingdom of God. There is never any lack.

The term "rich" means "full supply".

Then there are those that condemn people that are sick and we can be like Job's buddies and accuse them of all kinds of nonsense. We need to have compassion on those that are sick in this world and walk with them with the faith that they do have - not to beat them up for not getting things the way that we think it should manifest in their lives and in what timing.

The truth is some of us don't have the faith to bring what grace has already provided for us in Christ. There are many areas that I simply don't have the faith for now in my life. I recognize it for what it is and I don't blame others because they do have faith in that area that I don't.

There is a way to encourage others to believe God without condemning them or believing they are condemning us just because they are speaking the truth. There are 2 sides to that tree too.

The real truth is - faith or the lack of faith was talked about by Jesus many times where He said they had little faith. Is Jesus now attacking the emotions of those that don't have faith? Or is He simply showing where their lack is and knowing this deficiency can make them pursue Him as He is the truth.

Some of us modern day believers would be ripping the Lord Jesus apart for His talks to people both corporately and individuals on having no and little faith.

We are to encourage each other in where ever we are at and not bite and devour each other because we believe differently on a subject. None of us know things as we ought to know them says Paul - but let's stop this biting and devouring each other and walk in where each of us are at now in our own walk with the Lord.

Speak of the love and grace of our Lord and the nutrients we need will be brought to us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus Christ. We are to fix our hope completely on the grace that comes with the hearing and seeing of Jesus. 1 Peter 1:13

These 2 principles remain true for all of us.

Romans 14:4 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.


Romans 14:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves.
Okay it is obvious you have been influenced by Hagin's teachings because your words resound in the pdf file "teaching" I posted earlier in the thread.

That being said, do you believe that Hagin correctly handled Galatians 3 and Deutoronomy 28? Is that what those scriptures truly say?

We aren't judging people but doctrine, so those verses don't apply.

We can judge if verses were taken out of context or not.
God calls for us to have discernment.

.I don't know the biblical basis for your assertations that God promises good health for everyone and your bad health is due to your lack of faith, but I have read the Bible many times and have never see God say that to me.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,718
113
#50
Personally I believe that some modern day evangelical beliefs are all mis-representing the Father and the work of the Lord Jesus Christ.


"Some modern day evangelical beliefs are all misrepresenting?" We all know that whenever statements like these are made they are unfounded, need to be examined since there is no real corroboration to these claims and they remain unfounded. But the need is to have a diving platform, which you've created for your theory. So, the foundation is faulty to start,and I will go to show why that is below.

On one end of the same tree we have those that say being in poverty is God making us humble
The more important thing here is to find out what Scripture says about this instead of the question begging and leading statements and theories that are unbiblical.

Note Proverbs 30:8 - Remove far from me falsehood and lying; give me neither poverty nor riches, feed me with the food that is needful for me, (Note the connection of falsehood and riches, and the desire to be content)


The opposite end of the spectrum, the question begging here, if you will, is that you believe the prosperity gospel to be of God and to be biblical, and in either case this is false. 1) The biblical side shows us that to desire to be rich is a snare, a trap and is not of God or the Gospel; 2) Of which snare prosperity gospel false teachers are leading others into, and, of which the Scriptures call covetouseness and of which they condemn. 3) And to top that off if any man is covetous, speaking to those within the church, what do the Scriptures say? The warning is quite solemn, quite stern.

Scriptures for each of the above:

1) 1 Timothy 6:2-10 --
Teach and urge these things. If anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with the soundwords of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that accords with godliness, he is puffed up with conceit and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy craving for controversy and for quarrels about words, which produce envy, dissension, slander, evil suspicions, and constant friction among people who are depraved in mind and deprived of the truth, imagining that godliness is a means of gain. But godliness with contentment is great gain,for we brought nothing into the world, and[SUP]c[/SUP] we cannot take anything out of the world. But if we have food and clothing, with these we will be content. But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation, into a snare, into many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs.

The above shows that without doubt preaching riches is not preaching the gospel. It warns solemnly against such, not only teachings, but teachers. It teaches us the true godliness that is content with what God has given, and the dangers of seeking to be rich. The twisting of words is what leads these teachers to deceive others. 2 Peter 2 also describes this same scenario. That is a false gospel message, and many are deceived by it. No need to put a spin on what "prosper" means when Scripture is clear, but that is what must be done and what will be done to deceive others as per this passage.

2) The above passage shows this is where these teachers lead others, into covetousness. Note 2 Peter 2:3 -- And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.

Note: They will use false words, they will twist words, put a spin on words in order to deceive. Brothers and sisters, I do not need to remind you who began that false gospel, right? "Has God said"? or "Here is what that really means". And we see the spin put on words "prosper" and rich turned into "full supply" which spin is contrary to sound doctrine.

3) Concerning what Scripture warns about covetousness in the NT. 2 Corinthians 5:9-11
I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindlernot even to eat with such a one. For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside. "Purge the evil person from among you."

Note that in the above text Paul, speaking of what the Spirit of God says, likens sexual immorality, and drunkenness on the same level as covetousness. Paul tells this church to expel this wicked man from them, this sexually immoral man. Yet, he would have also told them to expel any person who was covetous and greedy in the same manner since the sins are on the exact same level.

Con'td:

Note Ephesians 5:5 For you may be sure of this, that everyone who is sexually immoral or impure, or who is covetous (that is an idolater) has no inheritance in the kingdom of God.

Note that stern warning. Paul warns we may be sure of this (that is, the end of those who are covetous). Covetousness, being taught and suggested by these teachers is well warned against in Scriptures. The Scriptures are clear. But what will happen to rescue this evil false gospel will be to twist the meanings of words as in the first false gospel, and to entice others with the idolatry of covetousness and dressing this false gospel up. It will allure many because it appeals to the flesh and Satan is using this scheme big time to deceive man, and they think that gain is godliness when it in fact is just the opposite.

I'll address one more thing here:

- then we have those that say God makes us sick to teach us things or the equally abhorrent belief that God "allows" it so He can be glorified.
He did this with Job, and others, so let us all who are looking in be careful to not be deceived by human reason as above, but let's instead look to Scripture: Job 2:10 "But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil?"

And in saying this God says through His Word, in what Job declared above "In all this Job did not sin with his lips". Why was it necessary for God to vindicate Job here? That he in fact did not sin in what he stated? Because it is clear that Job knew that even the calamity that he had was from God. Read the context, read chapter 1:1ff and see that this is true.

So, the testimony of Scripture is there. God was glorified, and this is not an "abhorrent belief" it is a pure, sound in doctrine Biblical belief. In calling this an "abhorrent belief" you are dead wrong sir and Scripture testifies against this. There is no need to go any further, Scripture is clear for all those who have ears to hear.

God bless all His.
 
Last edited:
A

Ariel82

Guest
#51
Maybe a silly question, but I am thinking about this for a while (when I see various threads about specific teachers):

Why do people need to follow contemporary teachers, tv preachers, authors etc?

Why the Bible, reformation and some creeds are not enough? What "else" or "new" do you expect to learn from todays teachers that is not present in the Christianity from the beginning?

Why do you need somebody´s sermons to tell you what is or is not in the Bible?

And I mean this generally, not just to Ariel or about Kenneth Hagin.
I dont follow or swallow whole the teachings of anyone each my true Teacher. God leads through the Holy spirit to discern truth from lies.

I started this thread in attempt to understand what in the world folks are talking about.

Since this is an online forum, folks don't really know or really believe I was born in 1982 and haven't listen or read all the folks the refer to.

I find myself in threads with a war raging in and feel like I step on a landmine when I ask basic questions out of my ignorance.

Most of the time I am just responding to the first post on the thread. I don't realize that there was a pitched battle and folks had dug in over years of arguing with the same people. I didn't realize that both sides would demand I chose a side or be labeled the "enemy" then attacked.

In truth I am often shocked and appalled at the behavior of supposedly mature Christians who claim to be my elders.

So sometimes God moves me to research and gain some knowledge to combat my ignorance.

This is one of my information gathering, researching threads. People can join and commenr, or not.

It's an open forum.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#52
Thanks for your contributions preacher4truth.
.However, from my brief research, your words won't be enough to root out the doctrine about God promising "health" because the assertation that it is Satan that have Job the illness, God just allowed it.

Permissive versus ....I really can't articulate it, because I believe it's false.

I just know it will take a lot of pray and time to address each concept and scripture twist.

I believe they are bricks that build a spiritual stronghold that war against the knowledge of God and His teaching about contentment in whatever state we find ourselves in.

However, Satan tactics are different with each one of us.

That is why we need to as a body of Christ, loving reveal the truth found in scriptures that will set the captives to Satan's lies free.
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
#53
Okay it is obvious you have been influenced by Hagin's teachings because your words resound in the pdf file "teaching" I posted earlier in the thread.

That being said, do you believe that Hagin correctly handled Galatians 3 and Deutoronomy 28? Is that what those scriptures truly say?

We aren't judging people but doctrine, so those verses don't apply.

We can judge if verses were taken out of context or not.
God calls for us to have discernment.

.I don't know the biblical basis for your assertations that God promises good health for everyone and your bad health is due to your lack of faith, but I have read the Bible many times and have never see God say that to me.
I haven't looked at them yet nor listened to what was posted about Gal 3 and Deut. I will later on in the afternoon when I come back and give you my "opinion".
 

Johnny_B

Senior Member
Mar 18, 2017
1,954
64
48
#54
My parents also lived through the depression. My mom was so poor, they supplemented her at school. She got so sick from being malnourished, she almost died. No vaccines back then!

They got very rich in the 50s and 60s with my dad building homes and selling them for a big profit, besides his day job and playing pro football. Money really drove my parents, and to a certain extent, my MIL. So, yes, I think this idea that fear drove the prosperity movement, might have some validity.

I believe the Health side of the Word Faith is totally unbliblcal. The fact is, healing is NOT in the atonement. I have posted so much on that, in the past. I can repost, if anyone wants. That would be the Bible verses, the context, and the Greek. Lest anyone think I am just making it up as I go along.

As far as the Wealth side, I have not paid much attention to it, because money doesn't drive me. But, if I find time, I will also post something about it, from a Scriptural point of view, which means not pulling a verse out of context, and making it a proof text.

I read Hagin's books in the 1980s. I was not impressed, although I was a young Christian. A friend really put me straight, and I never looked into it again, even when I was shamed and humiliated by Word Faith friends, who accused me of having no faith because I was not healed. But no, that does not drive me, either!

I really do want to stand against this unbiblical heresy! That is what drives me! And the Holy Spirit who seems to want me here for a reason!
Please do post some Scriptures and everything else. One of the reason I was so into it was because of my health and then I noticed that these people that saying they wanted to pray for me so that I would be healed, by the laying on of hands, I realized, it was not my faith, if they truly were the great men of faith that they claimed to be, their faith should of got me healed. The idea of the Atonement having healing in it, was on of Kenyon's teaching. I remember reading an old copy of T. L. Osborn's book "Healing the Sick" and got all charged up.

I don't know if anyone has heard of Rienhard Boonke? He was basically the one that got all of them into the so-called being "slain in the Spirit" I've seen videos where thousands of people were falling out, like a wave at the Super Bowl, except instead of standing up, they were falling down, and of course being healed. Notice they never go to the people in wheelchairs to pray for, but they always look for people with ill health that can not be seen like the back, neck, depression, headaches. I can not count all the people that once I told them about my sickness and they would ask if they could pray for me to be healed and they'd always ask how do you feel? The same.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#55
I will have to do the same with the 3 videos posted.
 
Nov 23, 2016
510
37
0
#56
Here is one from Hagin that talks about being led by the Holy Spirit in our every day lives. IMO - There are many good things for us to learn from this.

[video=youtube;C1fJhsRWP2s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1fJhsRWP2s[/video]
Who could dispute or doubt anybody to whom Jesus appeared to and sat and talked with for an hour and a half (in 1959) ? Hagin discusses this event beginning at the one-minute mark. Apparently Mr. Hagin was born-again at the time ... but not "Spirit-filled". According to Hagin, Jesus was teaching him how to be led by the Spirit. Nope .... no red flags here.
 
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,718
113
#57
Thanks for your contributions preacher4truth.
.However, from my brief research, your words won't be enough to root out the doctrine about God promising "health" because the assertation that it is Satan that have Job the illness, God just allowed it.
Sister, you know this, it is not my words that will be rejected, it is God's Word that will be rejected. You also know this sister, that we are to preach truth in season and out of season, no matter the outcome, 2 Timothy 4:1.

All we can do is be faithful to our God and to His Word handled rightly 2 Timothy 2:15. His sheep will believe and will follow Him, John 10:27, and take it fwiw, those who will be deceived will continue to be deceived unless God intervenes.

I don't say this out of malice, hate, or any ill will, it is merely a solemn and fearful reality. Some are taken captive by Satan, and deceivers will both be deceived and will deceive others, 2 Timothy 3:13.

Permissive versus ....I really can't articulate it, because I believe it's false.

I just know it will take a lot of pray and time to address each concept and scripture twist.

I believe they are bricks that build a spiritual stronghold that war against the knowledge of God and His teaching about contentment in whatever state we find ourselves in.

However, Satan tactics are different with each one of us.

That is why we need to as a body of Christ, loving reveal the truth found in scriptures that will set the captives to Satan's lies free.
Yes, perhaps God will deliver some from this false gospel's snare.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#58
Thanks for the post, not a bad sermon on having strong faith.. Ken spoke on the woman who touch Jesus garment, the two blind men, the wealhy mans child, strong faith is important I think.. :)

Could have even touched on the ( while sitting under the fig tree) :)

[video=youtube;hP9rBDYYFvw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=hP9rBDYYFvw[/video]
What about the person who said "help me in my unbelief"?

I don't agree with his conclusion that you have to have faith to be healed. Some people had no faith but Jesus healed them anyway. The man at the pool is an example.

His teaching causes people to assume that it's the lack of faith that is the reason people are not healed.

This is sermon 1 of 6. So will keep chipping away and see his full message.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#59

Of course we still need teachers today in the body of Christ. We are not mature yet as Paul says the purpose of the 5-fold ministry is for the body to grow. Eph and 1 Cor.
There is a big problem with this view.

When Paul wrote this, there was only one apostolic church. This lasted to 1004 AD when the roman bishop wanted the power to rule over other bishops. Eastern church said "no". And from that times there were two churches and two groups of teachers.

From reformation, many other branches were added with so many various teachers teaching contradicting things.

So the situation today is very, very different from that of Paul´s. We actually must pick up teachers to teach us, that means we are the authority over their teaching anyway. Which is something Paul would be against, as he said in some verse.
 
Last edited:
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
#60
There are many ways of viewing scriptures on some subjects.

One of the things to remember about bible interpretation: Everything in the bible is truly stated but not everything is a statement of ultimate truth. The revelation of Christ Himself is the Truth that trumps all other things that we may "perceive" from the Old Testament beliefs about God.

God's nature never changes - our "perception" of Him can as we see Jesus and His ways in dealing with people do change too - the cross of the Lord Jesus Christ changed everything


The scriptures are "progressive revelation" that end with the revelation of the Lord Jesus Christ Himself.

Jesus is perfect theology. He is the exact representation of the nature of our Father and He came to do the will of the Father and to reveal the Father's real nature to us all.

If we want to see how our Father views sinners and the self-righteous - see how Jesus interacted with them while on this earth.

If we want to see God's will for providing for us - see how Jesus provided for others - sometimes in rich abundance and there was never any lack.


No where do we find anywhere in Jesus' life where do we see any of these things being said by Jesus to anyone;

1) I can't heal you because God is trying to teach you something.

2) I can't heal you because you have sin in your life.

3) I can't heal you because you have not forgiven your mother-in-law. ( or anyone )

4) I can't heal you because you have not been eating and exercising properly. ( They were all on the Mediterranean Diet too...:) )

5) I can't heal you because God wants you to suffer with this sickness so that you will learn to trust in Him.

None of these things ever occurred although we have been taught by some of our church teachings that they are true. There is no evidence in the life of Jesus - in fact - the evidence is the complete opposite of what we have been taught in some circles.


Just to keep the malice down to a minimum - I will say this again concerning riches - I definitely believe that riches can be deceiving and I have written about this many times in the past.

Riches within themselves are neutral - they can be used for good or evil. When we get to heaven we will be constantly surrounded with the "evil riches"....think about it.

Riches are deceiving in the aspect that we think we can find life from them and if we have them - then we really don't need God as He alone is our provider.

This can happen for those that are rich and equally for those that are poor. We are trusting in and looking for life out of whether we have or don't not have them. That is idolatry and will not bring us the life that only is found in Christ.

He is our provider , He is our Healer, He is our Life.

If people have a different view - then that is their choice I won't call you a "cult", false teacher, heretic or insult you personally for your beliefs in these areas. Nor will I create a thread "exposing" your heresies because you have a different view then I do. I will not put devil horns on your picture and put your "wolf face in a sheep's skin".

It's good to speak the light of the Lord Jesus Christ and His light will dispel the darkness like mist on a foggy morning when the light hits it.


The faith that you have - have it before God. All is well...