Legalism empowers DEMONS in your life!

[john832]

Well of course it is...and it shows that for a believer the "old" creation has passed away....Its is the fulfillment of What Christ spoke of in Matt 5:18....

Mt 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

So, in your addled mind this has already come to pass?

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Rev 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
Rev 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Frankly, I don't think you understand much scripture at all, you certainly do not understand the concept of metaphors and allegories in scripture, neither do you understand prophetic statements.

 

[Laodicea]

He said it would pass away when it was fulfilled...He fulfilled it! As the rest of the New Testament tells us in evident terms!

Matthew 5:18 KJV
(18) For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.


This verse is not talking about the law being fulfilled and then the law passes away. It is saying the law will not pass away till heaven and earth pass. Till all be fulfilled is not referring to the law but, to time. Consider another verse.


Luke 16:17 KJV
(17) And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

Romans 3:31 KJV
(31) Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.


Faith does not do away with the law rather it establishes the law. That is not legalism it is righteousness by faith.

 

[john832]

Yes my friend, your old life is gone (sins are forgiven) and you are a new creation in Christ. I don't think this verse is about the law... but my opinion

Not opinion, fact.

 

[Jeff_56]

Ok brother. I will be in agreement with you to the degree that a symbol only has the power an individual chooses to give it.
I will not criticize the symbol itself, but instead the godless uses some have given it.

I didn't see anything about this at all except this one post.

Realize that there are a lot of symbols that because of the origin and nature of the symbol results in a curse , perhaps always without exception, because
it does not rest on nor rely on what any person or group of person chooses about it,

but what yahweh says. and it is written. the idolatry that yahshua warns about and speaks against has infiltrated to very great degree in many groups, heretical groups and others as well, and with some idols or some objects just having one may bring a curse known and unknown. like statures of animals or 'saints' , or crucifixes , or circles (those who use them know but don't admit it; no one else even thinks about it), i.e. anything used by demons to influence humans as well as moreso anything yahweh says NO to, His people should have nothing to do with it - just having anything to do with it other than exposing it is disobedient, wrong, and sin. sort of like, or exactly? like - a demon -?> keeping one around is not a good idea..... but most people are slaves of the prince of the power of the air; most people on earth, and all of us once were.... (read Ephesians if you forgot or never knew)....

 

[Mitspa]

Are you deliberately misquoting Rom 10:4 or do you just not know any better?

Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

The word for "end" here is...

G5056
τέλος
telos
tel'-os
From a primary word τέλλω tellō (to set out for a definite point or goal); properly the point aimed at as a limit, that is, (by implication) the conclusion of an act or state (termination [literally, figuratively or indefinitely], result [immediate, ultimate or prophetic], purpose); specifically an impost or levy (as paid): - + continual, custom, end (-ing), finally, uttermost. Compare G5411.

It means outcome or point aimed at. This word, G5056 τέλος, is used other places in the N.T., let's look at them...

1Pe 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Yep, G5056 τέλος is the word used here for end. So, is your faith obliterated? Done away with? Brought to an end? or is it brought to an outcome of salvation?

Jas 5:11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

Same word, G5056 τέλος, for end here. Is this the obliteration of the Lord? The doing away with Him? The use of the word is determined by context. Let's see how a few other translations render it...

New International Version:
Christ is the culmination of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

International Standard Version:
For the Messiah is the culmination of the Law as far as righteousness is concerned for everyone who believes

Aramaic Bible in Plain English:
For The Messiah is the consummation of The Written Law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

The sense of it is the end result, not the obliteration.

Rom 2:13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;

I wish I had a nickel for every time someone has misused Rom 10:4

yea ...I know "end" don't really mean "end" well it does mean end and many other scriptures testify that it does!

2Co 3:13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:

 

[Mitspa]

Matthew 5:18 KJV
(18) For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.


This verse is not talking about the law being fulfilled and then the law passes away. It is saying the law will not pass away till heaven and earth pass. Till all be fulfilled is not referring to the law but, to time. Consider another verse.


Luke 16:17 KJV
(17) And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

Romans 3:31 KJV
(31) Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.


Faith does not do away with the law rather it establishes the law. That is not legalism it is righteousness by faith.

I have already showed you where the Word of God says that for a believer this very thing is true...

2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

 

[Jeff_56]

Again with the misrepresentations of scripture?
.....

correct. straight from the spambot.... there's nothing in scripture, in heaven, or on earth that can help change /fix/ heal it's programming apparently. everything offered in truth and love and peace has resulted in increased spam.

 

[john832]

yea ...I know "end" don't really mean "end" well it does mean end and many other scriptures testify that it does!

2Co 3:13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:

What was abolished?

2Co 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
2Co 3:10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
2Co 3:11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
2Co 3:12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
2Co 3:13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:

The administration of death. The Old Covenant was a physical covenant and eternal life was NEVER promised in it. Here is the proposal for the Old Covenant...

Exo 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
Exo 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
Exo 19:7 And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the LORD commanded him.
Exo 19:8 And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.

Notice that keeping the Covenant and obeying God's voice here are two distinct phrases?

The Old Covenant was never intended to bring eternal life and it didn't. That is why the New Covenant was planned before the death of Christ...

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

In fact this was all planned before the first molecule of the earth was created...

Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

 

[Mitspa]

So, in your addled mind this has already come to pass?

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Rev 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
Rev 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Frankly, I don't think you understand much scripture at all, you certainly do not understand the concept of metaphors and allegories in scripture, neither do you understand prophetic statements.

I know ...just insult others, as you claim you obey Christ? But the Word of God is fact and its clear Christ fulfilled every jot and tittle of the law...

Joh 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Joh 6:32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.

 

[michael56]

I have already showed you where the Word of God says that for a believer this very thing is true...

2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Remember what Paul said:

Brothers and sisters, if I am still preaching circumcision(ie law), why am I still being persecuted? In that case the offense of the cross has been abolished. Gal5:11

Why, is the offence of the cross not preaching ''law''?

not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in[SUP][a][/SUP] Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith Phil3:9

 

[Mitspa]

What was abolished?

2Co 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
2Co 3:10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
2Co 3:11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
2Co 3:12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
2Co 3:13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:

The administration of death. The Old Covenant was a physical covenant and eternal life was NEVER promised in it. Here is the proposal for the Old Covenant...

Exo 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
Exo 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
Exo 19:7 And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the LORD commanded him.
Exo 19:8 And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.

Notice that keeping the Covenant and obeying God's voice here are two distinct phrases?

The Old Covenant was never intended to bring eternal life and it didn't. That is why the New Covenant was planned before the death of Christ...

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

In fact this was all planned before the first molecule of the earth was created...

Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

2Co 3:13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:


This is clearly the Ten Commandments...all the law, every jot and tittle!

 

[john832]

At issue here is the real problem...

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

This explains the hatred for God's Law.

 

[Mitspa]

At issue here is the real problem...

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

This explains the hatred for God's Law.

No we uphold the law and its true standards and purpose...we don't "break" it into parts so religious folks can pretend to keep it and justify themselves apart from Christ and His Cross..


Ro 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

 

[Mitspa]

If we are bound by the limits of our flesh through legalism and trying to justify our flesh, the devil will always have power over us. If we see who we are in Christ by faith in the Spirit and have no confidence in the flesh, we will find victory in our faith, because we are in the Spirit and not in the flesh.

Ga 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Being in faith and not under law...is being "in the Spirit"
and it is in faith, in the Spirit we have power over the enemy.

1Jo 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

The devil wants to bring us back into legalism (flesh)...which is not of faith (spirit) and there he has power over us.

How did satan corrupt the church? How did false religion replace the true faith, and the catholic church gain control of that which once was a spiritual body? By legalism! he (satan) began to bring the law back into the church, like with doctrines that the law is broken into ceremonial and moral parts...he satan put folks back under the ten commandments and dead religious works. If satan can get a believer to think they are justified by any part of the law, he has them in his deceptive power because he has made them subject to the flesh and not who they are in Christ in the Spirit.

Ac 20:24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.
25 And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more.
26 Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men.
27 For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.
28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.
32 And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.


Where did the church go wrong, where did they fail to heed Pauls warnings? They turned from the word of grace back to the written code of the law!

Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

John 5:39:47 KJV
39Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. 41I receive not honour from men. 42But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you. 43I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. 44How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only? 45Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. 46For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

John 1:16,17 ESV
16For from his fullness we have all received, grace upon grace.[SUP]d[/SUP] 17For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

 

[JaumeJ]

It seems no one is insisting you or others be obedient to God¡'s desires while the title and the drum you beat upon continually attacks those who wish to be obedient under grace.

We are taught if a person assumes a certain attitude about eating habits, customs, special days etc., and it is done with respect to our Father, there is no wrong, no harm, no sin, and we are to leave others to believe in the manner given them to believe., as long as we agree on Jesus Christ and the grace and mercy we receve from Him

No two humans will ever agree perfectly on everything regarding faith, the gospel and Jesus Christ, however the very basic belief in faith in Jesus Christ, is shared by all who claim HIs Blood.

It seems that the thread intneds to convince individuals that the author's way of believing is in stone, and unlike laws inscribed on our hearts, there is not opportunity for mercy.

I know when I have posted and quoted from Ephesians that we are not children of obedience, leaving all who are not so children of disobedience it is understood, however has been persistently overlooked.

If one is not a child of obedience, there is only one alternative.

Praise God, believe Him, read all of His Word, and believe It all, amen.

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

How did satan corrupt the church? How did false religion replace the true faith, and the catholic church gain control of that which once was a spiritual body? By legalism! he (satan) began to bring the law back into the church, like with doctrines that the law is broken into ceremonial and moral parts...he satan put folks back under the ten commandments and dead religious works. If satan can get a believer to think they are justified by any part of the law, he has them in his deceptive power because he has made them subject to the flesh and not who they are in Christ in the Spirit.

Ac 20:24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.
25 And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more.
26 Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men.
27 For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.
28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.
32 And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.


Where did the church go wrong, where did they fail to heed Pauls warnings? They turned from the word of grace back to the written code of the law!

Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Amen brother Mitspa,
and they can't see they are doomed to a curse for unbelief. Should be plain enough for all to see that the same spirit of legalism is the spirit of bondage and death. The same spirit in the men who murdered the prophets and even nailed our Great Master,Redeemer and Savior Jesus Christ to a tree and killed Him. Now the children of disobedience attempt to do the same.

 

[Mitspa]

It seems no one is insisting you or others be obedient to God¡'s desires while the title and the drum you beat upon continually attacks those who wish to be obedient under grace.

We are taught if a person assumes a certain attitude about eating habits, customs, special days etc., and it is done with respect to our Father, there is no wrong, no harm, no sin, and we are to leave others to believe in the manner given them to believe., as long as we agree on Jesus Christ and the grace and mercy we receve from Him

No two humans will ever agree perfectly on everything regarding faith, the gospel and Jesus Christ, however the very basic belief in faith in Jesus Christ, is shared by all who claim HIs Blood.

It seems that the thread intneds to convince individuals that the author's way of believing is in stone, and unlike laws inscribed on our hearts, there is not opportunity for mercy.

I know when I have posted and quoted from Ephesians that we are not children of obedience, leaving all who are not so children of disobedience it is understood, however has been persistently overlooked.

If one is not a child of obedience, there is only one alternative.

Praise God, believe Him, read all of His Word, and believe It all, amen.

Your problem is that obedience is not in legalism, that's a false form of godliness to justify the flesh of man....obedience is faith working by love...that's the Spirit of God working in a believer to will and act according to His good purpose.

Ro 10:2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Your obedience by the written code of the law is no more than the religious hypocrisy of the Pharisees ...its dead works! It profits NOTHING!

Its the flesh trying to justify the flesh!

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

Galatians 3:1-5
1O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? 4Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain. 5He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

Obedience is obedient but the just will live by faith