-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
D
Legalism is to condemn others for their sins, mistakes, shortcomings, disobedience's, etc. Everybody is disobedient at some time or another, because we're all sinners. [SUP]23[/SUP] For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
That's why Jesus said, "[SUP]4[/SUP] For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:[SUP]15[/SUP] But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. We all have trespasses that need to be forgiven, and if we have a judgmental, unforgiving attitude toward others in their disobediences, trespasses, sins, etc. then the Lord won't forgive us ours.
The commandment that the Lord gave us which replaces the old law of Moses is to Love one another. [SUP]34[/SUP] A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
[SUP]35[/SUP] By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
Being non-judgmental, being forgiving, and Loving one another are all synonymous. People who emphasize obedience to the 10 commandments or any other set of rules in order to be justified are usually people who have a judgmental attitude toward others, because they will judge peoples actions to determine whether they are good people or not. They will look at people in a condemning manner when they see people do things they feel are wrong or not in accordance with the law or the rules. This is not only a judgmental attitude but also an unforgiving and unloving attitude, which is a direct disobedience to The New Testament covenant and commandment that the Lord gave us to love one another.
Nobody has the righteous ability to keep the old law, including the moral code of the 10 commandments. This is what Paul was talking about in the Last half of Romans 7. He was basically saying that no matter how hard he tries he can never completely live up to the high standard of obedience to the law.(and he was talking about the 10 commandments here). He can never quite make the grade, so he kind of gave up on himself and said: [SUP]24[/SUP] O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
But then he gives the answer in the last verse of chapter 7: I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
So then, what does he say in chapter 8?:There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
[SUP]2[/SUP] For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
He still sins, breaks the law, is disobedient, but because he received and believes in Jesus there is no condemnation for those sins. He is free from sin. Not free to sin, but free from sin. Now I understand that there are some people who interpret the clause, "walking in the spirit" to mean that we still have to be obedient to the 10 commandments or we're not "walking in the spirit". But people who say this must think that walking in the spirit is a work of the flesh. Let me refer you to a a verse later on here in chapter 8: [SUP]9[/SUP] But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
[SUP]10[/SUP] And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
So what it's saying here is that everybody who has Jesus is walking in the spirit. You are walking in the spirit because you are saved and believe in Jesus. It has nothing to do with how you act or how obedient you are to the law and the rules. The body is dead because of sin. Sin causes death. The first man and woman died as soon as they sinned and disobeyed God. Because of that, sin and death passed upon all men for that all have sinned. There's no getting around it. You have to face the facts. You who condemn and criticize others for their sins and disobedience's to the law are just as disobedient and just as much sinners as the people you condemn. Because of sin all men are dead until they receive Jesus. Jesus is the Life.
[SUP]4[/SUP] In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
[SUP]5[/SUP] And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
[SUP]2[/SUP] (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us
Before a person receives Jesus he is dead, even if he tries his hardest to be a nice guy and obey the 10 commandments and do everything right. When a person receives Jesus he becomes alive. Righteousness, and life, and sinlessness are automatically imputed upon him by Faith. He becomes born again and as John said: Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
That's why Jesus said, "[SUP]4[/SUP] For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:[SUP]15[/SUP] But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. We all have trespasses that need to be forgiven, and if we have a judgmental, unforgiving attitude toward others in their disobediences, trespasses, sins, etc. then the Lord won't forgive us ours.
The commandment that the Lord gave us which replaces the old law of Moses is to Love one another. [SUP]34[/SUP] A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
[SUP]35[/SUP] By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
Being non-judgmental, being forgiving, and Loving one another are all synonymous. People who emphasize obedience to the 10 commandments or any other set of rules in order to be justified are usually people who have a judgmental attitude toward others, because they will judge peoples actions to determine whether they are good people or not. They will look at people in a condemning manner when they see people do things they feel are wrong or not in accordance with the law or the rules. This is not only a judgmental attitude but also an unforgiving and unloving attitude, which is a direct disobedience to The New Testament covenant and commandment that the Lord gave us to love one another.
Nobody has the righteous ability to keep the old law, including the moral code of the 10 commandments. This is what Paul was talking about in the Last half of Romans 7. He was basically saying that no matter how hard he tries he can never completely live up to the high standard of obedience to the law.(and he was talking about the 10 commandments here). He can never quite make the grade, so he kind of gave up on himself and said: [SUP]24[/SUP] O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
But then he gives the answer in the last verse of chapter 7: I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
So then, what does he say in chapter 8?:There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
[SUP]2[/SUP] For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
He still sins, breaks the law, is disobedient, but because he received and believes in Jesus there is no condemnation for those sins. He is free from sin. Not free to sin, but free from sin. Now I understand that there are some people who interpret the clause, "walking in the spirit" to mean that we still have to be obedient to the 10 commandments or we're not "walking in the spirit". But people who say this must think that walking in the spirit is a work of the flesh. Let me refer you to a a verse later on here in chapter 8: [SUP]9[/SUP] But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
[SUP]10[/SUP] And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
So what it's saying here is that everybody who has Jesus is walking in the spirit. You are walking in the spirit because you are saved and believe in Jesus. It has nothing to do with how you act or how obedient you are to the law and the rules. The body is dead because of sin. Sin causes death. The first man and woman died as soon as they sinned and disobeyed God. Because of that, sin and death passed upon all men for that all have sinned. There's no getting around it. You have to face the facts. You who condemn and criticize others for their sins and disobedience's to the law are just as disobedient and just as much sinners as the people you condemn. Because of sin all men are dead until they receive Jesus. Jesus is the Life.
[SUP]4[/SUP] In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
[SUP]5[/SUP] And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
[SUP]2[/SUP] (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us
Before a person receives Jesus he is dead, even if he tries his hardest to be a nice guy and obey the 10 commandments and do everything right. When a person receives Jesus he becomes alive. Righteousness, and life, and sinlessness are automatically imputed upon him by Faith. He becomes born again and as John said: Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
M
Again you seem to suggest obedience is in the spirit ...from the heart and then suggest its based on the letter as well...and instead of saying what you "think" Paul is teaching...post the scriptures that you believe would support your position. Just saying your obedient is not obedience ...especially when you have already admitted your disobedient.
M
Its the New Testament written in the Blood of Jesus Christ...the gospel, that reveals God and His will.
Ga 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. 10 ¶ For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
Ga 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. 10 ¶ For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
M
None of you actually "keep" the law...so where is all this obedience you guys talk about?
Saying your obedient is not obedience !
And there is no confusion about what part of the law Paul is speaking of!
Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
All the law! every jot and tittle....all things written in the book of the law.
Saying your obedient is not obedience !
And there is no confusion about what part of the law Paul is speaking of!
Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
All the law! every jot and tittle....all things written in the book of the law.
Last edited by a moderator:
Here is an example of this misconception of judging or condemning.
If a brother is walking in the sin of adultery we are commanded to address it and to rebuke such things.
but If another brother does the same on the Sabbath then suddenly they are legalistic.
The accusation is not based on what legalism is but on what people like and don't like.
If a brother is walking in the sin of adultery we are commanded to address it and to rebuke such things.
but If another brother does the same on the Sabbath then suddenly they are legalistic.
The accusation is not based on what legalism is but on what people like and don't like.
M
By what standard? If you judge others by a biblical standard you do not keep yourself, it is wrong because you have broken the Royal Law. If we judge by the standard of love, we will use righteous judgment.
A legalist has no authority under the New Covenant to judge anyone, because they are not in righteous judgment, they are themselves in the flesh.
A legalist has no authority under the New Covenant to judge anyone, because they are not in righteous judgment, they are themselves in the flesh.