Less well-known Rapture verses. The case for the Rapture is compelling.
- Thread starter cv5
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
OK, then. Please explain what this "gathering" refers to.
Matt 24-
30“Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earthwill mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.
31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
Matt 24-
30“Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earthwill mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.
31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
ewq1938 said:
The first and only second coming are physical arrivals. The others are not, number 4 not included since it is fabricated.
Also, another false coming is the so called coming in Judgment in AD70, which did not happen but is oft claimed by Preterists of all forms.
Those who want to be taken seriously need more than simple assertions. They need evidence. And mentioning a chapter isn't evidence.
What is needed are specific verses with an explanation if they aren't straightforward enough.
The first and only second coming are physical arrivals. The others are not, number 4 not included since it is fabricated.
Also, another false coming is the so called coming in Judgment in AD70, which did not happen but is oft claimed by Preterists of all forms.
Those who want to be taken seriously need more than simple assertions. They need evidence. And mentioning a chapter isn't evidence.
What is needed are specific verses with an explanation if they aren't straightforward enough.
-
2
- Show all
Grace And Peace, Precious friend. Could very well be. Appreciate your view.
Here is what I have "studied":
Biblical Evidence # Shows THREE Future "raptures!":
Pre-Trib?:
(1) our "The Body Of CHRIST's" #:
Great GRACE "Departure" To Heaven!
(Romans - Philemon, Esp. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18;
1 Corinthians 15:51-52 KJB!)
Mid-Trib?
(2) witnesses "ascended up to heaven" (Rev 11:11-12 KJB!), And:
(3) 144,000 "sealed on earth" (Rev 7:4-8 KJB!), and then "redeemed {raptured?}
from the earth, And found before *The Throne Of God" (14:3-5 KJB!)
# 17 Biblical Reasons available, IF you wish to discuss further...
Here is what I have "studied":
Biblical Evidence # Shows THREE Future "raptures!":
Pre-Trib?:
(1) our "The Body Of CHRIST's" #:
Great GRACE "Departure" To Heaven!
(Romans - Philemon, Esp. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18;
1 Corinthians 15:51-52 KJB!)
Mid-Trib?
(2) witnesses "ascended up to heaven" (Rev 11:11-12 KJB!), And:
(3) 144,000 "sealed on earth" (Rev 7:4-8 KJB!), and then "redeemed {raptured?}
from the earth, And found before *The Throne Of God" (14:3-5 KJB!)
# 17 Biblical Reasons available, IF you wish to discuss further...
KingdomBrat said:
We could very well be Mid Trib Rapture
Excuse me, but none of these verses says anything about Jesus taking the glorified believers back up to heaven. So we can discount any idea of a pre-trib U-turn.
Nope. They didn't get their glorified bodies. They were simply resuscitated and taken up to heaven in their earthly bodies, just like the FIRST time they went to heaven in their earthly bodies.
"Biblical reasons" for what, exactly?
We could very well be Mid Trib Rapture
Excuse me, but none of these verses says anything about Jesus taking the glorified believers back up to heaven. So we can discount any idea of a pre-trib U-turn.
Nope. They didn't get their glorified bodies. They were simply resuscitated and taken up to heaven in their earthly bodies, just like the FIRST time they went to heaven in their earthly bodies.
"Biblical reasons" for what, exactly?
This is so bizarre, one can hardly comment. You will find absolutely nothing in 1 Thessalonians 4 regarding the Great Tribulation. But you will find the word harpagesometha derived from harpazo, which means "caught up". Thus the Latin Vulgate has rapiemur for "caught up together", from which we get the word "rapture".
FreeGrace2 said:
Matt 24;30,31 speaks of "gathering" in the clear context of the Second Coming.
Do you think that Jesus wasn't aware that all NT believers would be elected?
Matt 24;30,31 speaks of "gathering" in the clear context of the Second Coming.
Do you think that Jesus wasn't aware that all NT believers would be elected?
FreeGrace2 said:
OK, then. Please explain what this "gathering" refers to.
Matt 24-
30“Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earthwill mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.
31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
No, Matt 24 doesn't refer only to Israel. And Matt 15:24 is about the fact that Jesus was prophesied as King, and they rejected their king.
Yet, God's plan ALWAYS included Gentiles, not just Jews, as you presume.
Rom 10-
11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.”
12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him,
13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
16 But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?”
19 Again I ask: Did Israel not understand? First, Moses says, “I will make you envious by those who are not a nation; I will make you angry by a nation that has no understanding.”
20 And Isaiah boldly says, “I was found by those who did not seek me; I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me.”
21 But concerning Israel he says, “All day long I have held out my hands to a disobedient and obstinate people.”
And Rev 20:5 describes the Trib martyrs as in the FIRST resurrection. That means all "who belong to Him".
Just as 1 Cor 15:23 says. But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.
OK, then. Please explain what this "gathering" refers to.
Matt 24-
30“Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earthwill mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.
31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
No, Matt 24 doesn't refer only to Israel. And Matt 15:24 is about the fact that Jesus was prophesied as King, and they rejected their king.
Yet, God's plan ALWAYS included Gentiles, not just Jews, as you presume.
Rom 10-
11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.”
12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him,
13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
16 But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?”
19 Again I ask: Did Israel not understand? First, Moses says, “I will make you envious by those who are not a nation; I will make you angry by a nation that has no understanding.”
20 And Isaiah boldly says, “I was found by those who did not seek me; I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me.”
21 But concerning Israel he says, “All day long I have held out my hands to a disobedient and obstinate people.”
And Rev 20:5 describes the Trib martyrs as in the FIRST resurrection. That means all "who belong to Him".
Just as 1 Cor 15:23 says. But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.
Actually the text is unclear if the two prophets of Revelation 11 resurrected back to mortality or to immortality. Since their resurrection was so close to the larger mass bodily resurrection it is possible their bodies were transformed to immortal but since there is no evidence for or against, I take no specific stance on it.