lets talk about gay people!!!

sc81 · Feb 7, 2015

my opposition to gays is mostly directed to certain groups trying to force churches to accept the gay lifestyle as normal and church doctrine. What they want to do in their own lives is up to them, even if I don't agree with it on a personal level I am not going to be protesting outside gay bars or whatever because I think it's a waste of my time.

It's time christians and churches stop trying to win popularity contests with the unbelieving majority public by accepting gay lifestyle as fine just to fill pews. Yes it might make you a "bigot" or "homophobe" in this day and age or whatever silly name they can except but being a christian has never been popular and God certainly is not going to reward you for your "tolerance".

Jesus said to the adulterous woman, "go and sin no more", not "go and live how you want but as long as you love me then it's fine". If you have gay feelings and want help to be a christian then fine i'll try, if you are gay and want acceptance for your lifestyle then I will not give it

Lynx · Feb 7, 2015

bitter_perfume said:

There are some out there who care. They usually get drowned out in the shouting, but they're there.

Welcome to the forum.

(Protip: There's a lot more shouting here in this Bible Discussions forum. Some of the other subforums are more sane. I'm not gonna mention which ones because I don't want the rant-and-rave crowd to follow me to them, but you can find them if you poke around a bit. Look for the forums where Lynx posts a lot and you'll find them.)

gerjozen · Feb 7, 2015

JFSurvivor.

1) "And the Lord God said, it is not good that man should be alone" (Gn.2:18)
So what did God do, He created the animals (Gn.2:19
2) "...and brought them unto Adam..." for two reasons (a) to see what he would call them
(b) to see if they suited him
because it is written, "But for Adam there was not found an help meet for him" (v.20)
So that rules out beastiality and also any feeling of attraction to animals.
3) Now God creates Eve the opposite sex, not another Adam.
They were Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.
4) The same way God brought the animals unto Adam, He now brings the woman unto him.
The words, "This now is bone [Sing.] of my bones [Plur.] and flesh of my flesh.
Adam finally got something that suited him as a man.

FEELING ATTRACTION

"Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother,and shall cleave unto his wife". [Not Husband]
Eng. cleave Heb.dabaq (daw-bak) meaning:- to be joined to
That is a healthy normal relationship a man and a woman being joint to one another.
Even Christ confirmed that male and female created He them.

"...and thy desire shall be to thy husband...."
Eng. desire Heb. teshuqah (tesh -oo - kaw) meaning:- (a) desire, longing, craving
(b) of a man for a woman
(c) of a woman for a man
According to Scripture, the man and the woman should be attracted to one another.
That's normal in the creative order of God.
Feeling attracted to the same sex or an animal is abnormal, and is against the creative order of God.

Excuse me for saying this, but your doctor seems to be the one who is abnormal.
I hear the voice of Satan saying, "Don't worry you won't do anything with your dog"

I

MadParrotWoman · Feb 7, 2015

The problem, as I see it is when we begin to go against God's word where do we draw the line? What else will be deemed acceptable to man in the future? Father & daughter relationships? Mother & son? It may seem unacceptable now but in the past so was homosexuality. The only way we can be sure we keep on the right track is to never stray from God's word.

Having said all this I believe it is just the actual carrying out of the act that is wrong - not the attraction. I actually work with two lesbian girls whom I love to bits - like daughters, I just don't agree with what they do.

Jeff_56 · Feb 7, 2015

everyone as a christian here doesn't 'struggle' with sin - they repented of it like all the ones john the immerser(john the baptist) immersed after they repented of their sin in the NT.

the ones who 'struggled' were the scribes and pharisees who got mad because john would not baptize(immerse) them because they did not show repentance from their sin.

the believers who were set free from their sin and from the consequences of their sin(death, continual separation from god, remaining under god's curse), rejoiced in their freedom and life and joy in union with yahshua(jesus), forgiven of their sin and made whole to live life as yahweh said to live, just as it is written.

bitter_perfume said:

Lynx · Feb 7, 2015

Jeff_56: And the temptation of your past sins never comes back? You NEVER feel the urge to go back to it? The struggle continues whether you're winning or losing. Some things that I have let creep into my life, I will be struggling with until the day I die. Doesn't mean I gave in to them, but I do still have to put up a fight now and then.

Jeff_56 · Feb 7, 2015

we don't get to draw the line. god did. jesus said if they sin in their heart, they die. (everyone is born dead in sin and trespasses, even before doing anything they need a redeemer and savior; everyone, thieves, adulterers and gays and murderers)
[h=1] "Daniel 12 American Standard Version (ASV)[/h] 12 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince who standeth for the children of thy people; and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

[SUP]2 [/SUP]And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt."

.... 'some to everlasting life' = those who repent and are forgiven for their sin

.... 'some to shame and everlasting contempt.' = those who murdered jesus for no purpose, by their sin, and did not repent.

MadParrotWoman said:

MadParrotWoman · Feb 7, 2015

Jeff_56 said:

we don't get to draw the line. god did. jesus said if they sin in their heart, they die. (everyone is born dead in sin and trespasses, even before doing anything they need a redeemer and savior; everyone, thieves, adulterers and gays and murderers)
"Daniel 12 American Standard Version (ASV)

12 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince who standeth for the children of thy people; and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

[SUP]2 [/SUP]And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt."

.... 'some to everlasting life' = those who repent and are forgiven for their sin

.... 'some to shame and everlasting contempt.' = those who murdered jesus for no purpose, by their sin, and did not repent.

Yes we are all equally guilty - murder, adultery etc. It isn't just homosexuality but the reason homosexuality is singled out more often that the other sins is because society tries to force us into acceptance of it.

Yeraza_Bats · Feb 7, 2015

I am passionate about helping those who are lbgt because I know that life, I come from it myself. I have lived that life, I cried over it, I felt like my life was meaningless, I felt all that too. I once even called my life a "divine joke". I told God that because I was born male, I was given a cruel and meaningless life by Him. I do not hate gays, I am one of them. Of course I am not that now, but I was, and the sin is on me too. My problem with it is that it is being used as a great weapon against God. People who are living that life are telling us that they cannot help it, and that God is cruel to make them that way and then hate them for it. And there is alot of mis-information being given to the world too, that people who are gay are always gay and should be okay with it. I can tell you this is not okay. After being led back to God, I had an expirence, the guy I was with beforehand was already on his way to see me. And yeah I loved him and all that. He was here with me, and we were lying on my bed together holding each other and all that. And I was going through it all in my head. I was asking God, if we didnt have sex and just loved each other, maybe this was okay. Then I felt this gentle feeling come over me, and I heard a kind voice tell me "this is not the way". It took me time to adjust, but I did after a while let go of those feelings for him. We are still friends, and I love him like a brother, but I was able to overcome romantic feelings for him.

Many people of today are being led away from a cruel God who hates people for a sin that you are being told they cant control. But I have come from that life guided by God, and I can tell you that you can get away from it. I have a strong desire to help those who are like me. Those who feel that temptation, and believe that life isnt worth living without them. I want them to know that God does love them, and that He did in fact lead me away from that life Himself. I do kinda get annoyed when people go on about how it cant be helped and that God is just cruel, because I know why they are saying this. Just because your tempted by something doesnt mean you cant say no. Yes, God does hate homosexuality. No, He does not hate gays, Christ died on the cross to save them. But no, God does not allow any one to tell Him that they cant help it and that He should accept them. God tells us, these things cause Him indignation. Though he led me away from this life, it wasnt through a happy way. Christians are being pushed to the idea that they need to accept homosexuality. The bible does tell us that we should love everyone as Christ did, but we should also follow God. I want the world to know that homosexuality can be helped. Yeah it can be hard to overcome. It wasnt like I was fine the next day. And yeah you will be tempted by it, Im still tempted. The bible tells us we will be tempted. But you can say no to homosexuality. Dont let yourselves be made to feel bad and ashamed by the world when you try to help someone see Gods way. Be loving, be understanding, but do not be supportive of sin, but of coming to Christ.

And no I dont hate gays, or transgender people. I have a massive soft spot for them that most people wont believe. You are told I hate them because I have a strong desire to show them the way, to let go of your desires and follow Christ. Do you believe that I am cruel to say that yes, God does want us to let go of desires and that yes, you can live happily without them? Sadly I can get a big grumpy when people turn that around and go calling God evil, and Im still learning how to deal with that righteously. But I love them because I come from it, I know whats being pushed on them, and I KNOW how good it feels to accept this deception, and the danger they are walking into. And I want more than anything to help them see that it is a desire, even if its strong, and that though the path to it is narrow and difficult, it is 100% the best path they can take :3

Please do not let yourselves believe you are cruel for accepting the word of God, and knowing it is a desire that you can get away from and become strong against. Even if the world hates you, do not believe that you cant control not allowing yourself to resist temptation. So many young people have turned their back on our creator merely because they have a desire they want more than Him, and I am in fact sad to see this happen. It is not hate I have, its a sadness.

Yeraza_Bats · Feb 7, 2015

JFSurvivor said:

This is 100% the way to go :3

gerjozen · Feb 7, 2015

Mrs. Mad I like what you saying. But please judge this what I'm about to say.
We have a saying, God only hates the sin not the sinner.
Is that Biblical or our own thing?

I can understand the verse, "For God so loved the world [the sinner]..."
That was the time of our ignorance "for the times of ignorance God overlooked", therein is the love of God displayed, but it goes further, He commandeth all man now that they should repent from their wicked ways or parish.

Now why would we just want to see one side of the coin, God is love?
What does the other side look like, should we flip the coin?
"Wrath", "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven....."
And to this side of the coin we prefer to throw a blind eye.

Now Scripture says, "Thou hatest all workers of iniquity".
Doesn't this speaks of the individual and not just their sin.
If so, why would we wanna try to change the mind of God by saying He only hates their sin, not them?

Again Scripture says, "Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated" (Rom.9:13 comp.Heb.12:16)
Again this speaks of an individual not just the wrong of a person.

Yeraza_Bats · Feb 7, 2015

Gods wrath only abides in you if you refuse to repent and understand Him and love Him. But for those who do repent and try to turn from their wicked ways (keep in mind this means the whole world and not just gays), He is so pleased by this that He does put His love into them and helps them, as long as they stay with Him. But we are told, those who refuse Him (meaning repenting to Him and trying to stay with Him and endure the suffering it causes) They will find His wrath.

But I kinda dont think that we should talk about His wrath when trying to help those who are gay, but instead talk about His love for them, that He has told us that if they do repent and seek Him, His compassion WILL find them, and He will save them :3

Btw, this thread has made like 20 pages since yesterday, and I dont wanna have to read all of it : p But I kinda feel the need to help people who are like me, so Id like to take part in any conversation about how to do it right, because I sometimes worry that maybe I do it the wrong way. Could we talk about that, like with people who also feel the need to help people with this struggle. It would actually be cool to have a place where Christians who struggle with this problem,like me, where we can talk and encourage each other.

Lynx · Feb 7, 2015

That would be a very good thing to have Yezara_Bats. (why do I keep wanting to say Bates instead of Bats?) Unfortunately if you start a thread in this forum on a hot-button topic (KJV bible versus other versions, music instruments in church, gays, keeping the Sabbath, etc) you will get people coming out of the forum woodwork to yell their opinions and yell at each other's different opinions.

Perhaps we could petition RoboOp, the owner, to establish a new subforum called Recovery. A protected, no-yelling forum for those who are coming back from alcoholism, pornography, homosexuality, etc. It could have rules like no preaching at people, no yelling at people for their sins, first time offense gets a private message, second offense gets a ban for three days, etc. We could have the Recovery Room rules listed in a sticky thread.

Or you could just come to the Singles Forum. We're mostly more friendly there. Unfortunately the screamer people from the Bible Discussions forum sometimes find our threads and start yelling in them there too.

Agricola · Feb 7, 2015

bitter_perfume said:

I hope you ignore the hateful comments and the ridiculous thinking that all homosexuals will perish regardless of thier relationship with Christ.

Maybe you could share with us your relationship with Christ and Holy Spirit and tell us how you are being challenged by them about your homosexuality, if at all.

Utah · Feb 7, 2015

JFSurvivor said:

So I guess here are my thoughts (so far) on the matter.

1) LOVE IS ESSENTIAL
But don't neglect truth

2) treat them how you would want to be treated

3) it IS possible to love a gay person in todays society as a Christian

4) Did I mention that love was essential?

5) don't ditch them after witnessing. Commitment is key

6) be a friend.

Anyone have anything to add?

Not only is it possible, it is Commanded that we do so.

krow · Feb 7, 2015

MadParrotWoman said:

Slippery slope causation fallacy is what this line of thinking is called, and it's caused by FEAR. Gay people have always been around and will continue to be. Now they are a section of society in a DEMOCRACY that feels they have a grievance, so that issue must be addressed. If we lived in a theocracy it might be different, but we don't and I can assure you, you would rather live in a great democracy like we have now were the religious insitutions don't have much political power which is how it should be.

Viligant_Warrior · Feb 7, 2015

ISeeYou said:

Seems to me anyone going to this much trouble to prop up their previous posts might just think there's a problem with their doctrine.

ForthAngel · Feb 7, 2015

krow said:

It's more than a grievance. It's a political and social agenda that goes beyond mere acceptance and being mistreated. Gays have political positions, religious positions, are all over Hollywood and the music industry, and for the most part are as fairly treated as anyone else. What else do they want? They want not only acceptance. It is a coordinated assault on the Christian community who they want to go against their own beliefs and accept their lifestyle as not sinful. We as Christians in this so-called democracy have our own grievance about being force-fed propaganda from the LGBT community. I think Christians are the minority in this debate in the political and social aspect. I think as Christians, we should hold our position and stop giving way for the intrusion that is happening.

This does not show a lack of love toward the gay community in any way. Did Jesus still love the people when he told them to go and sin no more? Did he still love the moneychangers when he ran them out of the temple? Of course he did. Love is not some sentimental mindset or an expression of emotion every single time, and often it takes on the appearance of unkindness.

Yeraza_Bats · Feb 7, 2015

gerjozen said:

People will scoff at this, but when considering these things in the past, I heard a guiding voice "you arent hurting anyone" before. It was without a doubt a spiritual messenger, but it was not of God.

Every single person on this planet is being guided by spirits, sadly most will follow the ones that lead to temporary physical enjoyment. Most believe it must have been their own thoughts, and call it their subconscious, and those spirits are more than willing to let them believe it.

Yeraza_Bats · Feb 7, 2015

ForthAngel said:

There are some rights they want, like tax breaks for married couples and things like the possessions of a gay married couple being given to the spouse of one who passed away and stuff. But the weird thing is, though they dont have these rights, Ive also never once heard a Christian person actually say "lets keep these things from them", the pretty much just dont think they should be married. I actually find it suspicious that they dont get these things, doesnt it kinda make you wonder if /someone/ wants to build a division between Christians and gays?

Anywho give them those rights, render to ceasers what is ceasers, taxes mean nothing to God anyways. As long as Christian churches have the right to say no to marrying gays without being jailed, then we dont have to worry as much as we cannot make anyone follow Gods will, just encourage others to do so.
I do know liberal people who /do/ believe that Christian churches should have to marry them by law, though. It is even being called an unfair thing to do.

lets talk about gay people!!!

Senior Member

Folksy yet erudite

Member

MadParrotWoman

Guest

Banned

Folksy yet erudite

Banned

MadParrotWoman

Guest

Senior Member

Senior Member

Member

Senior Member

Folksy yet erudite

Senior Member

Banned

krow

Guest

Viligant_Warrior

Guest

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member