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I Cor 12 also lists SOME of the parts that God has appointed (we've had this discussion before, haven't we YET?) "third are teachers"
It goes on to say that we don't all have each of those abilities, so we should desire the more useful gifts. So, if only a few have been gifted as teachers, what's wrong about having one of them as the full time teacher? As long as others that are gifted get to use their gifts often, then there's no issue, as far as I can tell.
It goes on to say that we don't all have each of those abilities, so we should desire the more useful gifts. So, if only a few have been gifted as teachers, what's wrong about having one of them as the full time teacher? As long as others that are gifted get to use their gifts often, then there's no issue, as far as I can tell.
E
I know deaf people. (we have a few ladys who will sign the message) people in wheelchairs, People who are in sever pain (I myself have went to church even though I could hardly walk or sit down because my back hurt so bad) But do not care because they want to be with the body so bad, they will do whatever it takes.
As paul said, a momentary light affliction.
Now if people are in a church where no one will help them get there, then they need to find another church..
But all these excuses I keep hearing.. That's all they are , excuses.
As paul said, a momentary light affliction.
Now if people are in a church where no one will help them get there, then they need to find another church..
But all these excuses I keep hearing.. That's all they are , excuses.
Are you eluding to the modern paid pastor that quit his job to teach 40 minutes on Sunday for a full 40 hour paycheck?
With a title that places him above the other elder teachers? If so I have already provided the scriptures that counter all that. Should I write them out again for the millionth time?
You've missed everything I have ever said. I'm tired of repeating the word of God to a wall. Love ya to death, but I see that most are never going to understand the basis and operation of the assembly set forth by Paul. Not in a million years.
Satan wins. Jesus said 'when I return will I find any (true) faith on the earth?' This should cause for pause....but will it?
Satan wins. Jesus said 'when I return will I find any (true) faith on the earth?' This should cause for pause....but will it?
No. I'm referring to the paid preacher that went to seminary and got a degree so that preaching IS his job. The one that spends many hours each week working on the teaching/sermon he will give up to three times on Sunday, along with any other duties the elders of the church see fit to give him.
The one whose "title" does nothing but describe his job at the church. Much like the title of "church secretary" or "church maintenance man" does.
And, no.... please do not write out your flawed arguments against this, for the millionth time. I'm beginning to see where the first part of your "signature" comes from.
The one whose "title" does nothing but describe his job at the church. Much like the title of "church secretary" or "church maintenance man" does.
And, no.... please do not write out your flawed arguments against this, for the millionth time. I'm beginning to see where the first part of your "signature" comes from.
Show me an assembly based on the NT pattern and I'll come early and I'll stay late. Not looking for perfection just a group moving toward God's design. I hunger for such a gathering. I yearn for such a fellowship. I see the NT pattern and I long for it daily. I'm not holding my breath that it will ever transpire. But the beauty of the scriptures that reveal His purpose and plan for His body sadden me. For this reason. Most Christians have no clue or even a desire to get a clue. Unable to discern His body or what His original intent for a functioning ecclesias even means.
Me trying to drag believers kicking and screaming to the word of God on this is wearing me down. I pray God would pull back the mantle that obscures these scriptural prescriptions. Like parting the Sea of Reeds. Please Lord.
All I want to do is wait on tables, wash feet, share His glorious word, and support the poor......without charge.
Me trying to drag believers kicking and screaming to the word of God on this is wearing me down. I pray God would pull back the mantle that obscures these scriptural prescriptions. Like parting the Sea of Reeds. Please Lord.
All I want to do is wait on tables, wash feet, share His glorious word, and support the poor......without charge.
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I'm not sure where you live, YET, but there are several small, startup type churches around here. They usually follow pretty closely what you would consider to be a NT "pattern".
They meet either in homes, or small office spaces in strip shopping centers, or they rent conference rooms at local motels..
They don't have paid preachers, just usually one or two of the men take turns preaching.
I'm almost positive there are some like that where you live.... or, here's a thought... why don't you find some like-minded Christians and start one of your own?
They meet either in homes, or small office spaces in strip shopping centers, or they rent conference rooms at local motels..
They don't have paid preachers, just usually one or two of the men take turns preaching.
I'm almost positive there are some like that where you live.... or, here's a thought... why don't you find some like-minded Christians and start one of your own?
T
I don't know, Yet ... though I can empathize with your plight after having tried many churches on and not feeling satisfied myself .... I do have to wonder at how much you really want to serve tables and wash feet when you engage in such discussions - but are only willing to point to full books and chapters rather than specific verses and explanations on how you perceive them to apply.
With all due respect --- Washing feet in my mind is more than pointing to the basin and saying "well, there it is - now figure it out for yourselves"
Actually Paul was not left alone. He had many visitors while he was on house arrest.
Acts 28:30-31 [SUP]30 [/SUP]And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him,[SUP]31 [/SUP]Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.
Acts 28:30-31 [SUP]30 [/SUP]And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him,[SUP]31 [/SUP]Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.
I often hear when people mention the church someone has to say the church is not the building. DAH I don't believe anyone in their right mind will deny the church is the no the people but a building. Here is another excuse many use for not being active in the local assembly. We know the building cannot be the body of Christ but it is a place here in the Western world where they body of Christ (the church) gathers for corporate worship.
Hebrews 10:25 And let us not neglect our meeting together, as some people do, but encourage one another, especially now that the day of his return is drawing near.
Matthew 18:20 For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them."
It doesn't have to be an expensive clubhouse filled with people. It can be two or three, and it can be online. There are Christians in other countries you can't assemble with in person, but you can assemble with them online.
Denominations are divisions that divide the Body of Christ, which is a sin. Disobedience. You don't want to be a part of that!
Galatians 5:19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions
Matthew 18:20 For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them."
It doesn't have to be an expensive clubhouse filled with people. It can be two or three, and it can be online. There are Christians in other countries you can't assemble with in person, but you can assemble with them online.
Denominations are divisions that divide the Body of Christ, which is a sin. Disobedience. You don't want to be a part of that!
Galatians 5:19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions
T
2 Corinthians 11:13-15 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.
Jude 1:4 For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.
2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
As the parable of wheat and tares tells us ... God did not plant the tares ... but he did not have them pulled up either.
God does allow the goats and sheep to cohabit - even in the buildings that have a sign printed "Christian church" on the front of them.
P
It is my belief that Christians are never to be alone. God's plan is for all who are His children are to unite together in a local church so as to be used by the Holy Spirit to reach out to the lost in their community with the Gospel. As we study in Acts about that first local church, The very day that the promised comforter, the Holy Spirit, came on them, they went out into the streets of Jerusalem and preached the Gospel. We are told that God added 3000 to their number on that day.
I understand that will never probably happen again, but it is an example of how we are to work together in a local church for the cause of Christ. When a person chooses to go it alone, He is rejecting God's plan.
Whether we meet in homes, a rented space, or a "church" building is not what is important.
Whether we have 10 members or 1000 members is not what is important.
Whether we have one man who is qualified to teach or we have 100 is not what is important.
Uniting together for the purpose of preaching the Gospel is what we are to do.
This is how we glorify our Lord and Savior.
Being a perfect church, doing everything in 100% accordance with the Scripture should be our goal, but because we fail in some areas is no reason to strike out on our own and bad mouth those churches and pastors who are striving to glorify our Lord.
As the old saying goes------------
If you find a perfect church, please stay away so as not to make it imperfect.
I understand that will never probably happen again, but it is an example of how we are to work together in a local church for the cause of Christ. When a person chooses to go it alone, He is rejecting God's plan.
Whether we meet in homes, a rented space, or a "church" building is not what is important.
Whether we have 10 members or 1000 members is not what is important.
Whether we have one man who is qualified to teach or we have 100 is not what is important.
Uniting together for the purpose of preaching the Gospel is what we are to do.
This is how we glorify our Lord and Savior.
Being a perfect church, doing everything in 100% accordance with the Scripture should be our goal, but because we fail in some areas is no reason to strike out on our own and bad mouth those churches and pastors who are striving to glorify our Lord.
As the old saying goes------------
If you find a perfect church, please stay away so as not to make it imperfect.
Have anyone been to a church where they actually built up the people with spiritual teachings?and if so,are you willing to share what you learned?
When the Lord told me to stand in a vision I thought going to church would be a good place to start.But I quickly found out that the pastor taught false doctrine when I told him that I've been praying for satanists that I know who are within the same church.
He then tried to discourage me into not praying for them and that I should be afraid of doing so.
Then he give me the scripture from Acts 19:13-16 as 'proof'
But I knew he was twisting those verses up.
Why should I be afraid and glorify darkness? isn't it the other way around?
That was the last time I went to church,but I still pray for that pastor and his wife.
When the Lord told me to stand in a vision I thought going to church would be a good place to start.But I quickly found out that the pastor taught false doctrine when I told him that I've been praying for satanists that I know who are within the same church.
He then tried to discourage me into not praying for them and that I should be afraid of doing so.
Then he give me the scripture from Acts 19:13-16 as 'proof'
But I knew he was twisting those verses up.
Why should I be afraid and glorify darkness? isn't it the other way around?
That was the last time I went to church,but I still pray for that pastor and his wife.