Lordship salvation vs. "easy believism"

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

soggykitten

Well-known member
Jul 3, 2020
2,322
1,358
113
Yes, I already stated "unless they become part of the nation".

Ruth was integrated to Israel thru marrying Boaz, Rahab saved the spies of Joshua and also married the captain of Joshua's guards.

Otherwise, Ephesians 2:11-12 clearly states that

Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

Gentiles could not be saved by God in time past on their own, without being joining the nation Israel. That is why Paul's statement in Romans 11:11 was a very important statement telling us there is now a significant change in dispensation. Gentiles are now saved thru the fall of Israel.
Your theology then believes all gentiles, non-Jews/pagans, in the world before Christ knew not God and as such died in their sins with no hope?
Are you aware Jews do not believe in original sin?
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
6,011
783
113
I heard a video on YouTube describing something lighter than 'easy believism'-- easy repeatism. that is the idea that if you repeat a prayer after a preacher who has NOT preached the Gospel to you, that you are saved. A lot of preachers ask the audience to 'pray to accept Christ' without explaining Who He is, that He died for their sins and rose from the dead.
 

soggykitten

Well-known member
Jul 3, 2020
2,322
1,358
113
Romans 11. I wonder how many here have read that entire chapter? I thought I had until Guojing referenced it and then I looked again and read the entire chapter.
Romans 11:32 For God has consigned all people to disobedience so that he may show mercy to them all.

What?
That answers my earlier question in another thread. Why didn't God show mercy and forgive Adam and Eve their first mistake? He did not do that because God intended to consign all people to disobedience so that he may show mercy to them all. :oops:
Sound familiar? Exodus 7:3 But I will harden[f] Pharaoh’s heart, and although I will multiply[g] my signs and my wonders in the land of Egypt, 4 Pharaoh will not listen to you.[h] I will reach into[i] Egypt and bring out my regiments,[j] my people the Israelites, from the land of Egypt with great acts of judgment. 5 Then[k] the Egyptians will know that I am the Lord when I extend my hand[l] over Egypt and bring the Israelites out from among them.”

Why didn't God soften Pharaoh's heart that he then renounce the pantheon of false deities he and all of Egypt worshiped? Imagine the lives of innocent Egyptians that would have been saved from the ensuing plagues. Newborns would not have been slaughtered by God's angel of death. Countless people would not have starved due to the locusts, the red Nile river from whence they got their food.


God has consigned all people to disobedience so that he may show mercy to them all.

Let that message sink in. It hit me like a ton of bricks.

I was so wrong.
I'm not in a relationship. I'm in a megalomaniacs malignant narcissistic cult! A God who consigned all people to be disobedient and suffer the consequences God assigned, damnation, was in the beginning. Which is why the tree that would guarantee our fall was planted in the middle of the garden of Eden. Because Omniscience knew Eve and Adam would eat of it because God let Satan, whom he conferred with after casting him out of Heaven and even let into Heaven from time to time, all in scripture I don't care to search out for you, to enter Eden and tempt a woman who did not know what good and evil was.
Therefore she wasn't able to actually knowingly choose, free will, to disobey God's order not to eat. She was innocently led, persuaded, by the wisest of God's angels to eat of the fruit God intended to consigned all people to disobedience so that he may show mercy to them all later on when he arrives on earth as Jesus to begin to show them that mercy.
So much for God being Omni-Benevolent, huh?
REALLY?

I'm in the wrong faith. :cry:

This is devastating! o_O

Goodbye.
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
6,432
1,123
113
Your theology then believes all gentiles, non-Jews/pagans, in the world before Christ knew not God and as such died in their sins with no hope?
Are you aware Jews do not believe in original sin?
I believed what Paul stated in Ephesians 2:11-12, yes.

That is precisely why all of us now should be rejoicing we were born at this time, that the mystery of the grace dispensation, revealed to Paul, is truly GOOD NEWS to us.

I understood what Paul meant in Ephesians 2 and 3, why he got on his knees on our behalf to thank God in the closing part of Ephesians 3, so much more once I realized the above.
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
6,432
1,123
113
Romans 11. I wonder how many here have read that entire chapter? I thought I had until Guojing referenced it and then I looked again and read the entire chapter.
Romans 11:32 For God has consigned all people to disobedience so that he may show mercy to them all.

What?
That answers my earlier question in another thread. Why didn't God show mercy and forgive Adam and Eve their first mistake? He did not do that because God intended to consign all people to disobedience so that he may show mercy to them all. :oops:
Sound familiar? Exodus 7:3 But I will harden[f] Pharaoh’s heart, and although I will multiply[g] my signs and my wonders in the land of Egypt, 4 Pharaoh will not listen to you.[h] I will reach into[i] Egypt and bring out my regiments,[j] my people the Israelites, from the land of Egypt with great acts of judgment. 5 Then[k] the Egyptians will know that I am the Lord when I extend my hand[l] over Egypt and bring the Israelites out from among them.”

Why didn't God soften Pharaoh's heart that he then renounce the pantheon of false deities he and all of Egypt worshiped? Imagine the lives of innocent Egyptians that would have been saved from the ensuing plagues. Newborns would not have been slaughtered by God's angel of death. Countless people would not have starved due to the locusts, the red Nile river from whence they got their food.


God has consigned all people to disobedience so that he may show mercy to them all.

Let that message sink in. It hit me like a ton of bricks.

I was so wrong.
I'm not in a relationship. I'm in a megalomaniacs malignant narcissistic cult! A God who consigned all people to be disobedient and suffer the consequences God assigned, damnation, was in the beginning. Which is why the tree that would guarantee our fall was planted in the middle of the garden of Eden. Because Omniscience knew Eve and Adam would eat of it because God let Satan, whom he conferred with after casting him out of Heaven and even let into Heaven from time to time, all in scripture I don't care to search out for you, to enter Eden and tempt a woman who did not know what good and evil was.
Therefore she wasn't able to actually knowingly choose, free will, to disobey God's order not to eat. She was innocently led, persuaded, by the wisest of God's angels to eat of the fruit God intended to consigned all people to disobedience so that he may show mercy to them all later on when he arrives on earth as Jesus to begin to show them that mercy.
So much for God being Omni-Benevolent, huh?
REALLY?

I'm in the wrong faith. :cry:

This is devastating! o_O

Goodbye.
The point Paul was raising in Romans 11:32 is quite beautiful when you understand it properly, in context of the 2 verses before that

30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:

31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

We were saved thru Israel's unbelief now.

In the future, the nation Israel will be saved because we are saved thru the past nation Israel unbelief.
 
Nov 1, 2020
19
7
3
The Acts of the Apostles book is a continuation of the Book of Luke. It is the doctrine Jesus taught being carried forth. Hence, Acts (Actions) of the Apostles.
Actsnwas not church doctrine. It was acts after the resurrection of Christ. A lot of people claim that it has doctrine. For instance on the day of Pentecost Peter told those who were pricked in heart to repent and be baptized. Baptism does not save. Nor does it factor into salvation. Acts 16:31 says believe on the lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved. It was Paul telling the phillipian jailer what he needed to do to be saved. It was acts or literally events recorded of the apostles. But doctrinal books of the New Testament followed. So many people, mostly unregenerate, cling to some type of work either that they can take from acts, the gospels, the Old Testament, or even some of Paul’s writing and turn it into a work. I used to do the same, until I was saved. I’m in Christ, not under man made rules about baptism, the law, human effort. And I know heaven is my home. I have heartfelt assurance, plus I have bible to back up what I claim to believe.
 
Nov 1, 2020
19
7
3
As far as easy believism is concerned, there was nothing easy about believing. I went through a struggle for many years until I had peace with God. I repented, was baptized over 20 times, cleaned up my act, resisted sin, cried at the top of my lungs for Jesus to save me during one altar service, crawled down the aisle on my knees on one service. The skies were still brass. It wasn’t until I saw a verse in romans 4 that I was saved. And when I read the verse I immediately trusted Jesus, him alone, and the miracle took place. It took me coming to the end of myself to simply do what God said to do which was believe.
 
L

lenna

Guest
'Chosen to be converted ' is what you need .

so how many converts have you made since you have posting here?

you don't agree with the actual gospel, so you must be a tad lonely
 
L

lenna

Guest
Actsnwas not church doctrine. It was acts after the resurrection of Christ. A lot of people claim that it has doctrine. For instance on the day of Pentecost Peter told those who were pricked in heart to repent and be baptized. Baptism does not save. Nor does it factor into salvation. Acts 16:31 says believe on the lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved. It was Paul telling the phillipian jailer what he needed to do to be saved. It was acts or literally events recorded of the apostles. But doctrinal books of the New Testament followed. So many people, mostly unregenerate, cling to some type of work either that they can take from acts, the gospels, the Old Testament, or even some of Paul’s writing and turn it into a work. I used to do the same, until I was saved. I’m in Christ, not under man made rules about baptism, the law, human effort. And I know heaven is my home. I have heartfelt assurance, plus I have bible to back up what I claim to believe.
sock puppet :LOL:
 
L

lenna

Guest
As far as easy believism is concerned, there was nothing easy about believing. I went through a struggle for many years until I had peace with God. I repented, was baptized over 20 times, cleaned up my act, resisted sin, cried at the top of my lungs for Jesus to save me during one altar service, crawled down the aisle on my knees on one service. The skies were still brass. It wasn’t until I saw a verse in romans 4 that I was saved. And when I read the verse I immediately trusted Jesus, him alone, and the miracle took place. It took me coming to the end of myself to simply do what God said to do which was believe.

really?

was a snap for me. now the growth has been more difficult to be sure

you should know though, that the term 'easy believism' does not refer to accepting Christ. it has to do with no 'proof' of believing in Christ other than mouth service. so, nothing to do with your personal struggle

I am sure you will not agree though :giggle:
 

OIC1965

Well-known member
Sep 19, 2020
2,043
790
113
Of course . AFTER getting in him .In order for a concept like the reformed position ,you would need " chosen to be converted/ saved / to salvation.
:)
He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world.
 

OIC1965

Well-known member
Sep 19, 2020
2,043
790
113
There is a difference between Israel and Jews now

The nation of Israel has fallen in the eyes of God.

Jews used to be saved by being part of the nation. That was why gentiles were excluded in the past unless they become part of the nation (Ephesians 2:11-12)

But after the nation has fallen, everyone Jew and gentile is considered uncircumcised and the same in the eyes of God

All of them are now saved by the gospel of the grace of God given to Paul, into the body of Christ

So romans to Philemon applies to all of them

James Peter and John were writing to Israel in their letters, for good reason. After the body of Christ is raptured, God will once again deal with Israel as a nation.

The doctrine contained in those letters would apply then
So you and TF have the general epistles having absolutely no relevance to Christians until the Last Days. You believe what you want, but I’m not buying it.
 

OIC1965

Well-known member
Sep 19, 2020
2,043
790
113
You can keep quoting this one verse over and over and it will never read " chosen to be converted " .
Are you saying you can be holy and without blame WITHOUT BEING CONVERTED?!! Wow, man!!!
 

Infinite_Ark

Active member
Sep 19, 2020
165
70
28
Actsnwas not church doctrine. It was acts after the resurrection of Christ. A lot of people claim that it has doctrine. For instance on the day of Pentecost Peter told those who were pricked in heart to repent and be baptized. Baptism does not save. Nor does it factor into salvation. Acts 16:31 says believe on the lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved. It was Paul telling the phillipian jailer what he needed to do to be saved. It was acts or literally events recorded of the apostles. But doctrinal books of the New Testament followed. So many people, mostly unregenerate, cling to some type of work either that they can take from acts, the gospels, the Old Testament, or even some of Paul’s writing and turn it into a work. I used to do the same, until I was saved. I’m in Christ, not under man made rules about baptism, the law, human effort. And I know heaven is my home. I have heartfelt assurance, plus I have bible to back up what I claim to believe.
I'm sorry but, what you claim to believe? Claim?
I'd like to see you show us that Acts was not church doctrine.

I'm looking to get back into the faith of my youth and it is news to me that Acts has nothing to do with the beliefs of the church.